Thread under temporary review…
Just removed the previous thread for review purposes. Hope to restore as soon as possible..
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Against Remembrance – Seminar & Book by David Rieff
Is the best way to overcome the legacy of conflict simply to forget about it? Author and journalist David Rieff spoke on this subject last week in a seminar at the Institute for International Integration Studies (IIIS) at Trinity College Dublin. Rieff has recently written a book titled, Against Remembrance (published in Ireland by Liffey [...] read our review »
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Eamon Nancarrow’s misadventures in Rock…
It’s the quiet ones you have to watch, they say. When I last saw Eamonn Namcarrow, back in the mid 1980s he was a congenial, good-natured and highly sociable young lad. The next time was 26 years later, in Lavery’s Gin Palace in Bradbury Place. He’d just brought out his first book, Holywood Star about [...] read our review »
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Propaganda of Peace: Media and culture during the peace process
Extract from Greg McLaughlin and Stephen Baker: The Propaganda of Peace: The Role of Media and Culture in the Northern Ireland Peace Process. Bristol: Intellect Books. 2010. Political opponents Ian Paisley and Martin McGuiness were confirmed as First Minister and Deputy First Minister of a new executive in May 2007, closing yet another chapter in [...] read our review »
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Need any help?
I hope not…
Fair Play Mick. Keep her Lit
Archive it at Boston College.
Publish and be damned…………….
what’s Slugger’s definition of “temporary”?
I’ve a wee post on this subject in which the deleted thread gets a minor mention and an offsite link (no comments available though):
http://wp.me/p1VqOC-72
Cheers Mark.
Mick – grow a set.
DC,
Mick isn’t the only one concerned. Following my blog PSNI Ards deleted the status and comments I questioned from their Facebook timeline – have a look.
It can still be seen direct via the link on my blog pending the full FB delete.
Though I did post the main screenshots and saved a copy of the entire thing so it seems a pointless effort at deleting history from the not so reformed RUC.
What did you think of Duffy’s press statement that his DNA was planted, what would be the point planting DNA whenever the car was intended to go up in flames and be turned into a burnt out shell?
Was the (attempted) burn out of the getaway car also staged?
DC,
Duffy’s case was the Forensic officers did not note a ‘glove tip’ in their SoC report – this only appeared after the initial scene photos were taken.
Seems an easy question to answer – why didn’t anyone see the glove tip until 9 months after investigasting the crime scene?
Unlike the PSNI or Slugger any discussion I have on this won’t be deleted the second it becomes ‘inconvenient’.
Doesn’t that just stand out- Slugger and the PSNI trying to hide what they faciliatate by deletion.
Why not plant it on the gun and bullets?
This facebook comment made me smile:
Legally speaking, no matter whats posted on here, there won’t be enough evidence to link me to this post!……The Judges of this…
mark……I thought you’d left in the huff ?
This issue seems to continue to matter in principle Mark. Are there any views on the TWO shootings being an anniversary of Chief Const. Michael Todd’s and Sgt. Fuller’s suicide, or is this the reason for your shyness?
“What did you think of Duffy’s press statement that his DNA was planted?”
As much as I thought of Gerry Adam’s press statement that he was never a member of the IRA.
Mark McGregor: Doesn’t that just stand out- Slugger and the PSNI trying to hide what they faciliatate by deletion.
Whereas you are facilitating it *without* deleting it. It was from *your* site that I discovered some of the particularly juicy allegations around the subject. Thanks.
Reader, the other irony is that the usual howls of condemnation about non-jury trials are uncharacteristically absent.
Given that the judge did not rule the evidence in question inadmissible, I wonder what a jury would have made of this case.
Mark, I would have guessed up until now that you were against the idea of guilt by association, which seems to be what you are accusing the PSNI of.
What is it about Irish Republicans and staying away? They flounce off with a dramatic cri de coeur, attended by hints at dark undercurrents (or “editorial stance”), only to bob up again like a little brown floater.
Is everything ok now or are we soon to expect yet another trembling upper lipped speech with bravely stifled sobs of indignation at being dissed always threatening to burst out from below the surface?
The PSNI has taken all the stuff down. Mick should you not now collapse this thread as Mark has commented on it and linked his stuffed which was snipped off the (now removed) PSNI page.
Besides, the old thread isn’t coming back up.
Also, I don’t see how the PSNI could have planted evidence in the car as the judge said he was content that Duffy had been in the car at some point.
Surely if Duffy got off on unsound evidence and tampering then Shivers could also press for same?
Duffy should take up singing as his next venture.
typo – linked his *stuff
(I wouldn’t remove Mark’s stuff personally speaking but I am following Mick’s logic based on the previous thread, there is now stuff on this one which is worse than the last one.)
Duffy held a press statement and there was a question and answer session, a BBC journalist was there and she didn’t ask the obvious question – planted by whom? Maybe I am being obtuse and should know that he is accusing the PSNI but even still if the PSNI had tampered with evidence – in Duffy’s opinion, then maybe Shivers conviction isn’t that sound following along the lines of the “planted” logic.
I asked him about the murders at Massareene of sappers Patrick Azimkar and Mark Quinsey.
Here is the exchange:
Q: Did you have any involvement at all in the Massareene killings and, secondly, what is your view of what happened that night?
A: Let me state quite categorically here that I had no involvement in what happened at Massareene. No involvement whatsoever. And that has been vindicated in the court because there was no credible evidence to suggest otherwise.
Q: And what is your view of what happened that night?
A: Well, these are actions that people are undertaking out there and these people can address these issues themselves.
Q: Would you describe yourself as a dissident republican?
A: Depends on how you define dissident. If that means somebody who dissents from mainstream Sinn Fein thinking, then I’m quite happy to class myself in that light.
Q: You used to be in favour of the Sinn Fein position – what changed your mind?
A: Obviously you had from the 1998 Good Friday Agreement people moving into Stormont, policing issues, justice issues. All these legacy issues, they haven’t been sorted out to this day.
Q: You used to be in favour of the Sinn Fein position – what changed your mind?
A: Obviously you had from the 1998 Good Friday Agreement people moving into Stormont, policing issues, justice issues. All these legacy issues, they haven’t been sorted out to this day
The vast majority of Republicans,since 1986,are now on the outside of the GFA/Stormont-But,the reason,imo,that Colin Duffy was ‘stitched up’ was because he was seen at an ‘alternative’ republican demonstration,prior to his ‘stitch up’.But,that particular ‘alternative’ republican group are in fact ‘against’ armed struggle.A conclusion i believe the majority of Republicans came to at different stages.The spectacular mis-calculation of the British about the very nature of Irish Republicanism is what lies at the heart of this matter,imo.What they never ‘factored in’ was the Independent mindedness of Republicanism-Hence-British (lack of)Intelligence.-’He must be the big bad wolf’…. They haven’t a clue who is who and what is what….
@Why not plant it on the gun and bullets?
Indeed-What’s the harm?
The vast majority of Republicans,since 1986,are now on the outside of the GFA/Stormont-
What you are saying here is that there aren’t very many Republicans.
As for the rest of us, justice is something that we can’t be selective about. It is incumbent upon us to accept the judgement of the court and move on. My own view is that Duffy is a dangerous and malignant influence, but until evidence is obtained to convict him of something there is feck all that can be done about it.
The vast majority of Republicans,since 1986,are now on the outside of the GFA/Stormont-
What you are saying here is that there aren’t very many Republicans.-
No.If you look back into the history of Republicanism,and take an organization like Laochra Uladh for example,or perhaps a better known Republican organization like Saor Uladh,you’ll begin to grasp the nature of Republicanism.
@As for the rest of us, justice is something that we can’t be selective about. It is incumbent upon us to accept the judgement of the court and move on….
Being ‘selective’ about ‘justice’ is half the problem,imo.Take the ‘Not In My Name’ society-Where were they when Kevin Brendan McDaid was kicked to death?A catholic-protestant community worker going about his business-Who egged that mob on?
@My own view is that Duffy is a dangerous and malignant influence
Hence,he must be ‘the big bad wolf’….until evidence is obtained to convict him ….
This is not man playing (sort of) but can I note that whatever else and whatever his motives for it Mr. Duffy has a brilliant beard. I wish I could grow a beard like that. Sadly mine would be useless so I do not try.
No.If you look back into the history of Republicanism,and take an organization like Laochra Uladh for example,or perhaps a better known Republican organization like Saor Uladh,you’ll begin to grasp the nature of Republicanism.
I’m not trying to grasp the nature of republicanism, I am trying to get you to explain your comment “The vast majority of Republicans,since 1986,are now on the outside of the GFA/Stormont-”.
Exactly how many Republicans are on the outside ? You must know, since you were able to say “vast majority”. Is it more than the 178,224 votes that SF received in the election ?
@I’m not trying to grasp the nature of republicanism, I am trying to get you to explain your comment “The vast majority of Republicans,since 1986,are now on the outside of the GFA/Stormont-”.
Exactly how many Republicans are on the outside ?
I suppose that depends on how you define a Republican.If you were to calculate every Republican who stood in elections since 1986,and use that as a yardstick then you’d find that most are now either inactive,independent or with a new group.If you factor in everyone connected to the wider republican family through community activism,god only knows.
Is it more than the 178,224 votes that SF received in the election ?
I know for a fact that for every one vote they got in the presidential campaign they probably missed at least one-
I wouldn’t vote in the presidential elections-But i’d consider flinging them a 3/4 vote at the locals,if nobody else stood-
I suppose that depends on how you define a Republican
Yes, I thought it would.
.If you were to calculate every Republican who stood in elections since 1986,and use that as a yardstick then you’d find that most are now either inactive,independent or with a new group
It sounds a bit like you don’t have any actual numbers to support your contention about the majority of Republicans not being associated with SF. Or, put less politely, you are talking out of your hole.
What about the people who voted, aren’t they Republicans too ?
I know for a fact that for every one vote they got in the presidential campaign they probably missed at least one-
I’m very glad we are dealing with facts. Exactly how did you establish this ?
I was referring to the NI Assembly elections, BTW.
@It sounds a bit like you don’t have any actual numbers to support your contention about the majority of Republicans not being associated with SF. Or, put less politely, you are talking out of your hole.
Lets take Dublin West,for example-
1987-Sinn Féin-James Delaney-1,041-2.0%
1997-Sinn Féin-John McCann-2,004-5.0%
2002-Sinn Féin-Mary Lou McDonald-2,404-8.0%
2007-Felix Gallagher-1,624-4.8%
2011-Paul Donnelly-2,597-6.1%
As far as i know only 2 of these people are still with Sinn Féin-But as we all know Mary Lou was a Fianna Failer before she joined Sinn Féin.Perhaps they’ve nobody left since ’86,perhaps they have-If they could manage to keep the same candidate for two elections in a row we’d have a better idea.
I have to agree with Turgon.
Ive not seen a beard of that quality since the mid 19th century……..so to speak.
Any attempt Ive ever made on growing a beard has been ended by the persistent naggi……er conversational skills of Mrs FJH.
antoin,
Would you say all the people who left SF have done so because they felt republican principles were being diluted ?
Turgon, FJH, indeed, Mr Duffy would make an unlikely stunt double in an action movie about the life of W G Grace.
Or he could star in a remake of The Passion of the Christ …..
Funny similar people grow such beards today.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/terrorism-in-the-uk/9029711/British-justice-should-not-be-over-ruled-by-the-European-Court-of-Human-Rights.html
Did Thatcher ever grow a beard ?
Thatcher had no need to prove her masulinity.
“The vast majority of Republicans,since 1986,are now on the outside of the GFA/Stormont-”
That confident statement by Antoinmaccomhain is patent bloody nonsense. I know it, you all know it and the author of the statement himself really knows it but then, having made it he seems to be seized by some weird type of sub-intellectual machismo that onliges him to attemot to support the nonsense with a piece of rambling incoherence rather than simply erase the offending nonsense before he presses the “submit” button.
It is all predicated, it would appear, on knowing what a Republican really is and (and here’s the sneaky bit) only Antoinmaccomhain knows the secret formula (and he ain’t telling !).
At least we can guess at the intellectual inspiration behind Antoinmaccomhain’s insistence that he is the sole (and secret) arbiter of who might or might not be a Republican, it is none other than our old friend Humpty Dumpty who, I might add, seems to be quite a popular source for inspiration in recent days on a number of threads.
“When I use a word,” Humpty Dumpty said, in a rather scornful tone, “it means just what I choose it to mean – neither more nor less.” = Through the Looking Glass. Lewis Carroll
No thread at all, 39 comments on it. It takes very little to start an argument in Northern Ireland.
A Republican is anything anyone wants it to be. The Provos were anti intellectual and really still are, so an alliance of green (behind the ears) nationalists, Trots, sundry disaffested English gentry and Fianna Failers who don’t get on with their mammies.
The idea that the RUC would try to stitch up anyone is not particulalry novel or fanciful. Given where Mr Duffy comes from, best not to advocate extra judicial methods to mete out “justice”. That is why we have the PSNI, to mete out…
“The vast majority of Republicans,since 1986,are now on the outside of the GFA/Stormont-”
That statement is perfectly TRUE. In the area i live. The shinners are considered traitors , I know no one that votes and everyone knows the cops are biased. Im not talking about a couple of people here but a whole community..
The Provos were anti intellectual
That’s why, when ‘British POWs’ were taking ecstasy and having close relations with anything with a heartbeat, the Provos POWs were gaining first class honours degrees and top drawer Master degrees. Those with enough time on their hands went for PHDs, and now they are the ones who will research, and determine how the conflict of the last forty years will be recorded and remembered
antoin,
Would you say all the people who left SF have done so because they felt republican principles were being diluted ?
No.But I think the Republican project,after Éire Nua was ditched,in 1986,became a very narrow project-It took 50 years for Republicans to come up with a political programme/ project of such importance,btw. Understandabe considering that so many Republicans were killed by the Free State during and after the ‘civil war’. I think that when we hear people like Toireasa Ferris calling for a return to ‘community politics’,but who are unable to identify what exactly they mean by ‘community politics’,it would indicate that it was a mistake to abandon the Éire Nua ‘political programme’.Vincent Browne challenged Sinn Féin Senator Kathryn Reilly recently to define what she meant when she called for a return to ‘community politics’.She was unable to do so.
@What about the people who voted, aren’t they Republicans too ?
I was referring to the NI Assembly elections, BTW.
I know you were-If you add the 243,030 votes Martin McGuinness received together with the 178,224 you have a figure of over 420,000 votes.But,if i’m right about the ‘wider republican vote’,then that leaves Republicans so close,but yet so far away,to acheiving Irish Independence. Sadly, it will now boil down to demographics,and ‘sure we’ll outbreed them’ whataboutery politics.
@It is all predicated, it would appear, on knowing what a Republican really is and (and here’s the sneaky bit) only Antoinmaccomhain knows the secret formula (and he ain’t telling !).
I actually don’t think there’s anything complicated about knowing what a Republican really is….I think complications came about when certain people tried to apply abstract ‘Industrial Revolutionary’ theories to a ‘fishing village’.
Comrade Stalin-Quid pro quo-
@As for the rest of us, justice is something that we can’t be selective about. It is incumbent upon us to accept the judgement of the court and move on….
Being ‘selective’ about ‘justice’ is half the problem,imo.Take the ‘Not In My Name’ society-Where were they when Kevin Brendan McDaid was kicked to death?A catholic-protestant community worker going about his business-Who egged that mob on?
Despite my prodding, Antoinmaccomhain insists “I actually don’t think there’s anything complicated about knowing what a Republican really is…” and then goes on to immediately contradict himself by further insisting, “I think complications came about when certain people tried to apply abstract ‘Industrial Revolutionary’ theories to a ‘fishing village’.“.
It’s no wonder the poor fellow is a bit shy on letting us in on the secret of what he considers a Republican really is. It is enough, he thinks, that we simply take his word that the majority of Republicans are opposed to Sinn Féin despite all evidence to the contrary.
He will forgive the rest of us for thinking that it seems much more likely that he is in fact one of those lonely unattached dissidents, a kind of Johnny-No-Mates, who has to invent a whole army of like-minded thinkers so that people don’t consider him too sad.
So far it’s not working.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-northern-ireland-16628714
The BBC has a piece on one of the brave boys who fell at Mazarene for Queen and “country”.
Galloglaigh: PhDs and other degrees done in prison are certainly not top drawer. The Provo researchers, McIntyre included, write about themselves alone. They have not produced a Mairtin O’Caidhean and few of them are astro physicists.
Republican News was a straight forward ghetto propaganda sheet. Though an Phoblacht had some low level intellectual leanings, when the Belfast lot took it over, that vanished. saoirse has interesting historical snippets, as one would expect, as they try to draw succour from the distant past.
Cormac was the nearest the Provos got to high thinking.
Irish Republicanism is a strange bastard child of the French Revolution which copulated with Irish Catholic irredentism to produce Martin McGuinness, Mary Lou McDonald and Neil Blaney.
I hope people read the piece above. I wonder what percentage of the British armed forces are immigrants or their off spring.
I heard one of the deceased’s sisters calling for the otehr RIRA attackers to have “British justice” done to them. had their son been killed in Afghanista, would she be on the telly singing the same song?
Rory said,
“At least we can guess at the intellectual inspiration behind Antoinmaccomhain’s insistence that he is the sole (and secret) arbiter of who might or might not be a Republican, it is none other than our old friend Humpty Dumpty who, I might add, seems to be quite a popular source for inspiration in recent days on a number of threads.”
Not to worry Rory, we all know that it is you who is the sole “arbiter of who might or might not be a Republican” and that Antoinmaccomhain is really only a pretender to your crown.
A nice little piece of dry sarcasm, Terry B, that managed to raise a smile to lips. Unfortunately, since I do not claim any such judgmental ability, it fails to find its target because there is, in this matter in my case, no target to be found.
If you are looking for such instant judges on here, apart from Antoinmaccomhain’s thesis on political demographics you might want to have a look at the post just above yours by Sliabhluachra who is quite the master of the quick definition of any matter that happens to flit fleetingly across his mind.
“…few of them are astro physicists…” he claims, speaking of what he terms, “Provo researchers. but one can’t help thinking after reading the litany of unsubstantiated, opinionated twaddle that precedes and follows, that really the fellow would be more comfortable confining his remarks to things to do with Astro Turf.
galloglaigh, John Kyle PUP councillor said: “They say that in Long Kesh while the republican prisoners took university courses, the loyalist prisoners went down to the gym. In actual fact, more loyalist prisoners left Long Kesh with university degrees than republican prisoners did.”