Gaddafi dead

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The BBC are reporting that Col Muammar Gaddafi has been killed in his home town of Sirte in Libya. Al-Jazeera TV has broadcast video apparently of Gaddafi’s body being dragged through the streets. It is unclear whether Col. Gaddafi was killed by forces of the National Transitional Council or in a NATO airstrike which apparently destroyed two vehicles earlier today.

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  • http://nicentreright.wordpress.com/ Seymour Major

    This is very good news.

    Good for Libya. They can look forward to being free of dictatorship and oppression.

    Good for the rest of the World. We can draw a line under the military intervention and look forward to a stabilisation of the oil markets.

  • Neil

    When the British fund anti (Libyan) government rebels it’s good for everyone.

    When Libya funded anti (British) government rebels he was pure evil.

    Double standard anyone?

    I wonder can anyone explain this massive coincidence to me, that the Brits have conveniently happened to invade three countries in a row who are incredibly oil rich? I wonder why that cam about?

    Britain’s colonialism lives on, even if they have learned to pretend they don’t want to be in all these coincidentally oil wealthy countries. And the net result: I predict yet another sectarian conflict raging for decades thanks to British thirst for foreign people’s assets.

  • http://openunionism.wordpress.com/ st etienne

    ^^ the provo support for terror worldwide, oblivious to what everyone else thinks.

    Well done Libya.

  • Stephen Blacker

    Lets hope that all the killings will now stop and there is a swift move to put in place a democratic government. Thanks must go to the NATO forces who answered the cries of help from the Libyan people.

  • Brian

    So, Britain has invaded 3 oil rich countries in a row.
    How many troops do they have in Libya?
    Who got most of the oil contracts in Iraq?
    What was the 3rd one?

    Unlike NI, the majority of people in Libya supported the government and did not side with the rebels. One of many differences with your absurd comparison.

  • Cynic2

    Neil

    ” I predict yet another sectarian conflict raging for decades thanks to British thirst for foreign people’s assets.”

    Sectarian? Do you mean Tribal?

    Ah well. Sue if it doesnt happen what else will you have to grind about on your (sectarian) anti-Brit crusade. Enjoy your angst

  • Nunoftheabove

    Neil

    “I predict yet another sectarian conflict raging for decades thanks to British thirst for foreign people’s assets”.

    Ok then, which particular clerical dictator would you like to see seize the thrown now in the wake of the previous dictator’s demise and given that you have articulated no obvious passion for a democratic state emerging ? Presumably you don’t much care who they are or what they represent or how wicked and brutal they are or how oppressive they are in relation to their fellow citizens, just so long as they’re fanatically anti-British and are not, heaven forbid, on anything approaching decent respectful terms with the USA. Is that really too far wide of the mark of where you are with this ?

  • michael-mcivor

    A number of british prime-ministers shook hands and praised Gaddafi with royal consent whilst he killed his own people and others-

  • JAH

    Not a pleasant end but he could expect nothing else. That many people supped with the devil is hardly new. Sometimes its the only way to stop a threat.

  • foyle observer

    RIP Muammar Gaddafi.

    A good man to the Irish.

  • Cynic2

    Foyle

    “a good man to the Irish”

    Yeah…he helped kill hundreds of them. A good man indeed.

  • sonofstrongbow

    Ah yes the good Colonel. So much an equal opportunity sponsor of murder; be it of his own people, people in the skies above and on the ground in Scotland, a London policewoman and countless Irish and British people in Northern Ireland.

    Perhaps the Irish President will call on the Libyan Ambassador to convey her condolences on behalf of the Irish people on the passing of this “good” man.

  • foyle observer

    Cynic, the British, assisting America in their ‘war on terror’ have murdered over 100,000 civilians.

    Good men / women indeed.

  • foyle observer

    It’s laughable that people STILL point the finger at Libya for Lockerbie when it’s well known that the Americans planned and executed the atrocity.

  • Nunoftheabove

    foyle observer

    When you say it’s well known…..you mean in the same sense as it’s “well known” that it was ‘The Jews’ and/or President Bush who used explosives to blow up the twin towers presumably, right ?

  • Decimus

    That’s one golden cow that republicans will never be able to milk again. Another tyrant is dead and they are gutted. :-)

    When did Afghanistan become an oil rich country btw?

  • socaire

    At what point do the White Europeans decide that the line has been overstepped and ‘human rights’ have been offended? Is there a sort of running league table of bad boys or do they pick targets where they feel sure they are on a winner? It’s a good job that there was nothing like NATO when the civilised West was raping and pillaging in Africa – which they were entitled to do BTW – as the natives were useless at exploiting their own resources. Meanwhile we sit in Vichy Ireland waiting the long wait and our eventual saviour.

  • Nunoftheabove

    socaire

    You’ve not been studying international law that long, I’m guessing. Possibly ever. Or politics, probably. Or history.

  • http://[email protected] joeCanuck

    socaire,

    You must have missed the bit where the Libyan people decided that they could take no more and rose up against the brutal dictator. Yes, Nato helped but it was under a UN mandate. The rag tag army showed what is possible.
    It is somehow fitting that Gaddafi ended up like a rat in a sewer.

  • Cynic2

    Socaire

    You could always write a letter to Santa?

  • Cynic2

    Will Marty follow in Dev’s footsteps and nip down to the Libyan Embassy to express his condolences?

  • Decimus

    Will Marty follow in Dev’s footsteps and nip down to the Libyan Embassy to express his condolences?

    I suspect that Coco will wash his hands of his mate Gadaffi. Just as he has been washing his hands of his Provo mates as and when required for the furtherance of Coco.

    The important thing is there will be no more free guns and semtex.

  • wild turkey

    Cynic2

    wise up.
    these are modern times.

    marty will present the keel (slightly damaged, ed?) of the Eksund to the bereaved family as a token of international solidarity.

  • wild turkey

    Socaire
    “Meanwhile we sit in Vichy Ireland waiting the long wait and our eventual saviour.” Don’t we all?

    But what if John the Baptist turns out to be a white european anglo? anglo-irish (how i hate the phrase and given your, um, purity(?) you must relish it. anyway. follow the bouncing ball mr troll

    TURNING and turning in the widening gyre
    The falcon cannot hear the falconer;
    Things fall apart; the centre cannot hold;
    Mere anarchy is loosed upon the world,
    The blood-dimmed tide is loosed, and everywhere
    The ceremony of innocence is drowned;
    The best lack all conviction, while the worst
    Are full of passionate intensity.

    Surely some revelation is at hand;
    Surely the Second Coming is at hand.
    The Second Coming! Hardly are those words out
    When a vast image out of Spiritus Mundi
    Troubles my sight: somewhere in sands of the desert
    A shape with lion body and the head of a man,
    A gaze blank and pitiless as the sun,
    Is moving its slow thighs, while all about it
    Reel shadows of the indignant desert birds.
    The darkness drops again; but now I know
    That twenty centuries of stony sleep
    Were vexed to nightmare by a rocking cradle,
    And what rough beast, its hour come round at last,
    Slouches towards Bethlehem to be born?

  • Mac

    Which Gaddafi is dead?
    The one that supplied arms to the IRA or the one who was shaking Blair’s hand and paying for counter-terrorism training for his police from the PSNI?
    Someone please clarify before I feign outrage and/or jubilation.

  • Decimus

    Mac,

    It’s the same guy. Not only has he been nice enough to martyr himself today, for the greater good of humanity, but he also had the decency to make a huge contribution to dumping on whatever was left of Tony Blair’s reputation.

  • Mac

    Surely, it can’t possibly be the same fellah Decimus?
    Is this some sort of
    ‘He is a son of a bitch, but he is/was/shall be our son of a bitch’ situation?

    A german friend directed me towards this today
    http://www.titanic-magazin.de/uploads/pics/Trauer-um-Gaddafi.jpg

    Translated as
    As mourning begins for Gadaffi, in the hearts of his friends he will live on.

  • wild turkey

    Mac

    Both are. Or, down the road, Bothar?

    he was bi-polar… and both can fuck-off

    as can also Blair (now Associates) and all those involved in the Libyan fueled”Tet” offensive.

    and ya know mac, perhaps, just perhaps, at the Gaddafis funeral, blair and marty can hold hands round a circle that sings ” I knew him well”.

  • Decimus

    Mac,

    It undoubtably is the same fellah. He is a dead son of a bitch and he won’t be handing out anymore free guns and semtex.

  • HeinzGuderian

    I am somewhat confused here at out nat/pep chums sorrow ? I thought they supported the peoples struggles around the world against ‘subjugation and tyranny’ ? ( well,obviously the don’t support the Unionist struggle against pira subjugation and tyranny),but I digress.
    As the barmaid said to the horse………..awww,why the long face ? ;-)

  • Mac

    I dare say there would be enough to form a big singing circle Wild Turkey.
    And perhaps, just perhaps, Sarkozy could deflect awkward questions from any Tunisian reporters at the shindig by pointing to his lovely lovely wife and daughter whilst exiting stage right.

  • Alias

    Given that Gaddafi was unarmed and surrendered to his captors, it’s hard to see how his murder isn’t a war ‘no quarter’ war crime under the Hague conventions.

    Lynch mobs and bloody murders are not a practice that the prime ministers of civilised countries should be seen to celebrate.

    If, as Cameron said, Gaddafi deserved to die because of his role in aiding PIRA murders, what then about the folks who organised PIRA murders? They’re in his devolved British government in case he didn’t notice…

  • http://[email protected] joeCanuck

    Alis,

    It isn’t a murder unless a trial is held and someone is found guilty. An inquest can, at most, rule that he was unlawfully killed (remember Saville’s findings?). We don’t yet know the full circumstances of his death. There will be no inquest or trial. Suck it up.

  • Alias

    Joe, some people don’t need a State to give them their opinions. Try it some time. It’ll probably be very scary and disorientating for you at first but you’ll be a better man for it in the long run.

  • http://[email protected] joeCanuck

    some people don’t need a State to give them their opinions

    Of course not, Alias. But, as I pointed out, we don’t yet know how he died (in a fire fight or NATO attack?); reports said that he was critically injured. I have an opinion too which might not be different from yours. It’s too early to make a definitive conclusion. Regardless, I’m not shedding any tears.

  • http://[email protected] joeCanuck

    Alias,
    You may be indulging yourself in a rush to judgement. For examples, if one of his captors shot him, was that shot a deadly one? Did a gun get discharged accidentally? What was the intent of the shooter? Was the shooter in a sound health of mind?
    Too early to judge.

  • Harry Flashman

    I had no time for Gadaffi or tyrants in general but this whole Libya thing has stunk from start to finish.

    Gadafi was actually reforming his government, he was reaching out to the west he was disavowing his terrorist past, in other words he was doing precisely what the west wanted him to do.

    What’s his reward? Being blitzed by Nato on behalf of Al Queda (North Africa)!

    It’s insane, why the hell are we backing a bunch of Islamofascists in Libya when we’re knocking our pans out trying to get rid of them in Iraq and Afghanistan?

    Why would Assad in Syria or the Bahrainis try to reform their governments now? What’s in it for them? Assad may as well slaughter his entire opposition now because if he’s going to wind up being shot in a ditch he may as well take a few of the bastards with him.

    Crazy, abso-feckin-lutely crazy.

  • Alias

    I’m not shedding a tear myself, Joe – quite the opposite, in fact.

    However, I think it is legitimate to say that the manner of his death is not something that civilised states should be seen to celebrate. I suspect that some of the NATO protagonists wanted a corpse that would tell no tales, and that is why they sent in the lynch mob to the location after disabling his convoy.

    Either there is a rule of law or there isn’t; and if there isn’t, then what is the difference between the deposed dictator and those who deposed him? Well, a few million corpses is the most obvious answer, but not the right one…

    Also, we do know how he died. He was discovered unarmed and he duly surrender. At that point he became a prisoner of war who was entitled to the protection of international humanitarian law. In contravention of it, he was tortured by his captors and summarily executed by them by means of a bullet to his left temple. He also endured “outrages upon personal dignity, in particular, humiliating and degrading treatment” in contravention of law, so he know all of that.

    The prime minister was quick to shift the focus onto the Libyan dictator’s war crimes to take the immediate focus off the war crime that had just occured but that trick merely points to the bloody murder of it.

  • DoppiaVu

    So the Colonel’s dead.

    Now we’ll never find out what those eleven secret herbs and spices were

    (ok I stole that from another site but thought it worth repeating)

  • michael-mcivor

    oops- sombody is scared- the ones who killed Gaddafi are saying that he was killed in a crossfire by his own side-

  • Harry Flashman

    Another lesson to be learnt by tyrants around the world. Part of Gadaffi’s outreach to the western world was an abandonment of his nuclear and biological warfare programmes back in 2003. If he hadn’t done that and developed a functioning nuclear or biological weapons system would he have ended up being lynched by Nato backed rebels?

    Kim Il-Sung is watching, so is Ahmadinejad, they know what to say to the west now when they are told to stop producing weapons of mass destruction, “that’s what you told old Muammar wasn’t it?”

    Sudan and Syria and other dictatorships will be on the phone to Pyongyang in the next couple of days.

    Cameron, Obama, Sarkozy are idiots, complete idiots the lot of ‘em.

  • Neil

    He was executed by the looks of it. In fact one very helpful Libyan rebel admitted to killing him and stripping him of some belongings.

    Worth noting the UN mandate referenced above to ‘protect civilians’. The fact that Ghadaffi’s dead on Thursday and on Friday they announce plans to wind down their involvement ‘within days’ suggests that Cameron and Sarkozy went in to kill Ghadaffi and weren’t planning to leave until he was dead. Which they’ve now confirmed by killing him and planning to leave post haste.

    Yet another conflict for the lawyers to pore over in the years to come.

  • The Reincarnation of Paul Reveres Horse

    I wont for a second to feel saddened at passing of a tyrannical despot. I am more worried about what has become of democracy and indeed civility and morality amongst our leadership.

    I hope the people of Libya are able to emerge from this a stronger, stable and safer society. That remains to be seen and I have my doubts to be honest. And I doubt Cameron, Nicholas or Obama could really care.

    For no one should kid themselves that this wasn’t carried out for spOILs of war rather than purely the altruistic spread of democracy by the loving iron fist of the “West”.

    While the arab spring caught many of the western leaders by surprise, they weren’t long taking the opportunity when it arose with Libya.

    This has achieved a number of things. For a start it has chased Chinese oil companies out of Libya. Those that left ended all their dealings and ran for it. British, US and other European oil companies have stepped in quite quickly right from the start.

    The US simply cannot afford to have another big player on the Eurasian continent. And keeping China in its box while securing the resources is crucial. Someone alluded to what benefit Afghanistan would be, it has no oil but it has the Trans-Afghanistan Pipeline joining the Caspian to the far east. The US badly needed this to be built to bypass Russian controlled pipelines and access eastern markets. As we all know negotiations between Unocal and the Taliban soured in the late 90′s and things went from bad to worse.

    China with its massive growth and hunger for resources is desperate to get into Africa and also to access Middle-east. And its better for the West to be able to sell those commodities to them rather than Chinese companies extract them. Also its easier to mobilise armies if you are sitting on top of your own fuel supply.

    Keep your eye on Uganda where the US are sending forces already on another humanitarian mission. Recent oil strikes in land-locked Uganda made around Lake Albert in western Uganda in 2006, and geologists say it contains at least 2 billion barrels.

    Only 25 percent of the region, which includes the Democratic Republic of the Congo, has so far been explored, and some reports say there could be up to 6 billion barrels there. Uganda expects to start producing an initial 200,000 barrels per day in early 2012.

    To the victors the spoils, as they like to say. But how do we feel about this in the West. How do you feel that your lifestyle has become so dependant on our armies marching across the globe to steal resources mainly oil. Civilisation has really come that far after all, has it?

  • Harry Flashman

    “To the victors the spoils, as they like to say. But how do we feel about this in the West. How do you feel that your lifestyle has become so dependant on our armies marching across the globe to steal resources mainly oil.”

    Nobody is “stealing” anybody’s oil, let’s not get melodramatic, if the Ugandans and Congolese can get the oil out of the ground themselves without western, Russian or Chinese help then good luck to them.

    Just for the record you may have noticed that it’s not just “the West” who is dependent on oil, I live in Asia and I have to tell you our cities and transport systems wouldn’t last too long without the black stuff either.

  • The Reincarnation of Paul Reveres Horse

    You are right. Stealing was not correct. But why the need for military when if the problem is a technological one? Why not sell or hell maybe give the technology and training to the Ugandans and let them control their resources to benefit their economy as they see fit? Or can they not be trusted?

    On your second point, you are correct, but what Asian military are marching through Uganda or were dropping bombs on Libya?

    If say Hugo Chavez doesn’t want to play ball on someone else’s terms, is it not moral to leave him be if it’s the Venezuelans ball. Or does our dependency take precedent?

  • Harry Flashman

    I wasn’t aware that anyone was bombing Venezuela. Furthermore your point about it being easier to buy the oil rather than sending troops in rather invalidates the argument that recent wars were about oil.

    It would have been a hell of a lot easier and cheaper to buy the oil off Saddam who would have been perfectly happy to sell the stuff than invade the country and see the Chinese snap up all the lucrative Iraqi oil deals which is what subsequently happened.

    As I recall Blair was doing a smashing job sealing oil deals with Ghaddafi in the months prior to the rebellion so I don’t see how the NATO intervention was to seize Libyan oil when the Brits Yanks and French were already going to buy it legitimately.

    The “No blood for oil” mantra is a wee bit 1990′s and that pipeline in Afghanistan spiel is such obvious overblown nonsense as to be barely credible outside fevered student union debates.

  • Brian

    ‘If say Hugo Chavez doesn’t want to play ball on someone else’s terms, is it not moral to leave him be if it’s the Venezuelans ball. Or does our dependency take precedent?’

    Hugo Chavez has led his own country to ruin. Crime is out of control, blackouts are common, and water is often turned off for days at a time. None of this was like this 11 years ago. And let’s not get into the human rights violations, the flagrant violations of the very Constitution he instituted, the rigging of elections that are increasingly meaningless, the tacit support for FARC guerillas, etc.

    My wife is from Venezuela and she no longer feels safe to go to visit her relatives. It’s a shame.

  • Alias

    Kim Il-Sung is watching, so is Ahmadinejad, they know what to say to the west now when they are told to stop producing weapons of mass destruction, “that’s what you told old Muammar wasn’t it?” – Harry Flashman

    Very true. Saddam Hussein wasn’t attacked because he had weapons of mass destruction but because he hadn’t. If he didn’t give up that capacity in 1991 then he’d still be in power today.

  • http://[email protected] joeCanuck

    Now we’ll never find out what those eleven secret herbs and spices were

    DoppiaVu, the real number is one – MSG.

  • lamhdearg

    Anyone ever see chimpanzees go on a hunt, we are one step down the ladder, at least they do it for the protein they need. With the coming of the age of a camera in every other hand, the fact that mankind is an animal, is plain to see. Tony blair and euan and nicky, beaten and killed, would the world shudder more? and why?.

  • HeinzGuderian

    ‘Very true. Saddam Hussein wasn’t attacked because he had weapons of mass destruction but because he hadn’t. If he didn’t give up that capacity in 1991 then he’d still be in power today.’

    Ermmm,now,correct me if I’m wrong like,but the Northern Kurds and the Marsh Arabs might disagree with that statement.Ya follow ?

  • lamhdearg

    Heinz,Belsan was a gas?.

  • lamhdearg

    the joy that some feel at his death is misplaced,put “Musa Sadr” into goggle.
    ? is if a half wit like me can see that, what are our leaders thinking/doing.

  • lamhdearg

    ps, by leaders i mean,them.

  • lamhdearg

    see and as i have the place to myself.

    FUZZY WUZZY WAS A WOMAN

  • Alias

    “Ermmm,now,correct me if I’m wrong like,but the Northern Kurds and the Marsh Arabs might disagree with that statement.Ya follow ?”

    Well, as you are wrong, I’ll correct you as requested. No ‘weapons of mass destruction’ were used in suppressing those uprisings. Apart from pouring kerosene on refugees and setting them alight as American fighter planes circled overhead but did not intervene, Saddam used only conventional weapons.

    What is interesting about those two examples is that NATO learned valuable lessons from them which it duly applied to Libya, i.e. if you exhort a people to arise against a despotic regime then you have a duty to follow your exhortation with military support rather than abandoning them to their fate. To its disgrace, the American government instigated that rebellion and then watched as Hussein implemented genocide against the Marsh Arabs as his means of suppressing what the Americans had initiated.

  • Alias

    Incidentally, in case it’s the date that threw you: the gas attacks were pre-1991.

  • slappymcgroundout

    “Kim Il-Sung is watching, so is Ahmadinejad, they know what to say to the west now when they are told to stop producing weapons of mass destruction, “that’s what you told old Muammar wasn’t it?” – Harry Flashman

    Very true. Saddam Hussein wasn’t attacked because he had weapons of mass destruction but because he hadn’t. If he didn’t give up that capacity in 1991 then he’d still be in power today.”

    So the record is clear, it is Kim Jong Il and not his father. More to the point, the read on the DPRK situation is horribly wrong. Forget the nucs. Think instead heavy artillery, within range of Seoul, a city with a population in excess of 13 million:

    http://www.rogerhelmer.com/seoul.asp

    Next, the read on Libya is wrong. Let us suppose that we were supporting Al Qaeda in Libya. That should play well with potential Al Qaeda recruits (the great satan sides up with Al Qaeda)(cognitive dissonance is setting in).

    Next, no one who has well and truly thought about the matter believes for a moment that the mullahs in Iran won’t do whatever it is they wish to do and never mind what anyone else outside Iran thinks. The IDF has a term for the Syrians, to wit, the “crazies”. In comparison, the mullahs in Iran make the Syrians seem like the epitome of “sanity”.

    Next, speaking of Syria, they are, again, models of sanity when compared to Iran’s mullahs. And so Jr. Assad knows that weapons of mass destruction would be the singular matter that ends his regime (family dynasty). And we (the US) wouldn’t do it, since Israel would beat us to the punch. Jr. Assad knows that, and knows also that assuming Israel failed, the full weight of US power would be next in line for a go.

    Next, if we’re worried about nucs, I think that a potential incident or two or three or four between Pakistan and India is of more concern. Sure, most of us won’t be hit in such an exchange (only those in their part of the world at the time), but who wants to live with radioactive material flying on over?

    Lastly, Saddam lacked the delivery system to hit the home populace(s) of the attacking nations and he’d have sealed his fate in any event had he used nucs over his own territory. So any nucs he might have were irrelevant. The only conceivable threat to the home populations of the attacking nations would be biological weapons, introduced by a human or two. Fortunately for the US, well, why do you think that we all consider biological weapons to be weapons of mass destruction? Tank versus tank, fighter-bomber versus fighter bomber, weapon of mass destruction (biological weapon) versus weapon of mass destruction (nuclear weapon). So I rather doubt that any nation would be so bold as to use a biological weapon.

  • RepublicanStones

    Ain’t it funny how just like Saddam, Qaddafi planned to move his trading in oil away from the dollar…

    First thing uncle Sam did upon reaching Baghdad was switch Iraqi oil sales back to the dollar. Old Muammar, didn’t even get that far….

  • lamhdearg

    from bbc web news “The International Criminal Court (ICC) said it had held talks – through intermediaries – with Saif al-Islam about his possible surrender.

    Prosecutors stressed that Gaddafi’s son, who is wanted for crimes against humanity, would get a fair trial.”

    Can the west risk letting this man speak?.

    ps, the prez election is over in that other country, we can now move on.

  • lamhdearg

    On the arab spring, From Al-Manar,
    Hezbollah Congratulates Tunisian People, Winning Forces
    Hezbollah congratulated Wednesday the “revolutionist Tunisian people” for their “decisive achievement” that was a major event in the country’s history.

    In a statement published by Hezbollah Media Relations, the party greeted the wide participation in the elections of the Constituent Assembly, and assured that “this participation reassured that the people who wanted a dignified life will never leave the field, and will decide their own destiny and future with their own will.”

    Hezbollah further addressed the “political, Islamic, and national forces who won the elections” and congratulated them for gaining the public’s trust.

    “With all our hope that these political forces succeed in implementing the desires and hopes of the Tunisian people and their honorable martyrs in achieving sovereignty, independence, justice, and dignity,” the statement concluded.

    it’s a big world out there, it’s not just here and down there.

  • fordprefect

    Hmmm, where to go with this. The MSM’s journalists almost came in their collective pants. Later on in the week they were saying maybe we shouldn’t have shown such a horrible death (after they had shown pics of it and had the video on their websites and gloated over it). If those so-called “rebels” were fighting a war, then, whoever was involved in Gadaffi’s killing should be charged with war crimes. Under the Geneva Conventions, if you capture someone, they are to be treated as a POW.