POTD – There was talk of a dirty protest!
Sinn Fein ard fheis Waterfront Hall
Tags: Belfast, Humour, Northern Ireland, POTD - There was talk of a dirty protest, Sinn Fein ard fheis, The extent of my coverage, Waterfront Hall
Topic: Politics, Society and Culture
Region: Northern Ireland
Topic: Politics, Society and Culture
Region: Northern Ireland
Well you see, no matter how you twist it, the RUC and the Loyalist hard men were beaten out by the people. If they weren’t, why did they send the army in if the RUC had stopped the riot? Rewriting doesn’t make the truth, evidence does. Present some?
The RUC repeatedly charged the crowds defending the area but were driven back by fusillades of stones and petrol bombs, some rained down on their heads from people positioned on top of the high-rise Rossville flats.
Through Wednesday the Police would launch sporadic baton charges, to drive back the… attack from the Bogsiders, until they themselves, at 9 o’clock, were finally driven back from a barricade they’d held all day.
Well that’s what the BBC say anyway!
And when the British were driven in, it didn’t take them long before they too would start killing innocent Catholics.
galloglaigh,
The army were sent in because of the bleating of the republican mob. They were terrified out of their wits that the B Men were going to be deployed to back up the RUC. To put things into a bit of perspective for you the RUC at the time was only 3000 strong. That is less than half the strength of the current woefully overstretched PSNI.
As we have seen republicans in Belfast and other areas kicked off serious rioting in order to stretch the RUC and prevent them from restoring order in the Bogside. Their immediate reserve was the USC, but they were not deployed and the army were instead at the request of the nationalist mob.
At first the nationalists, greatly relieved at not having to face the B Men, welcomed the soldiers with tea and buns. Before long however they were shooting at them. Imagine their surprise when the troops started shooting back.
“At first the nationalists, greatly relieved at not having to face the B Men, welcomed the soldiers with tea and buns. Before long however they were shooting at them. Imagine their surprise when the troops started shooting back”
From memory it was not the entire nationalist community that were shooting at the British army. It is true however, that the British army (and obviously yourself) wrongly believed that to be the case. They started killing innocent Catholics, because the Provos were shooting at them. It still doesn’t dispel the fact that the people of the Bogside beat the RUC and loyalist hardmen from their streets with bricks and bottles.
Sorry for the misuse again!
galloglaigh,
The people of the Bogside embarked on an orgy of rioting and violence because their sectarian hatred led to them being incensed by the sight of Protestant Apprentice Boys. They then pleaded for the army to be brought in to ‘save them’ from the B Specials and shortly afterwards they began attacking them as well.
The short term result of their actions was that the army ended up shooting a number of nationalists dead. The long term result was thirty five years of sporadic violence and almost four thousand deaths.
This is something that you think they should be proud of?
“The people of the Bogside embarked on an orgy of rioting and violence because their sectarian hatred led to them being incensed by the sight of Protestant Apprentice Boys. They then pleaded for the army to be brought in to ‘save them’ from the B Specials and shortly afterwards they began attacking them as well.”
God forbid people discriminated againts for centuries would take offense to the Apprentice Boys marching through their neighborhoods and taunting them after their recent peaceful attempts at securing civil rights left them beaten by loyalist mobs and state security forces.
The Apprentice Boys were in the thick of the initial fighting, btw.
“God forbid people discriminated againts for centuries would take offense to the Apprentice Boys marching through their neighborhoods and taunting them after their recent peaceful attempts at securing civil rights left them beaten by loyalist mobs and state security forces.”
Oh Jesus Christ. Worth thousands of deaths was it?
“The Apprentice Boys were in the thick of the initial fighting, btw.”
They fought back did they?
“The people of the Bogside embarked on an orgy of rioting and violence because their sectarian hatred led to them being incensed by the sight of Protestant Apprentice Boys”
The Apprentice boys march was in August. The RUC and Loyalist hardmen started attacking the Bogside in January.
Again, you’re not making sense. Your dates are all wrong.
” because their sectarian hatred led to them being incensed …..”
Maybe their sectarian hatred as you put it stemmed from the fact that they had been pissed on from a height by Unionism for years before that ….. and what grates with Nationalists is that Unionism knows that !!
Let’s keep this to one thread.
Examine the dates. Sammy Devenny was attacked by the RUC in April. The RUC had been attacking the Bogside since January. The ABOD march was in August. The RUC pogroms continued from January to August. The riots had nothing to do with hatred for the ABOD. The people in the Bogside were seeking rights denied by Unionist mis-rule. You obviously need to start reading on this issue as you are totally wrong.
galloglaigh,
The RUC and ‘Loyalist hardmen’ did no such thing. You need to stop relying on republican propaganda for your history lessons.
“Maybe their sectarian hatred as you put it stemmed from the fact that they had been pissed on from a height by Unionism for years before that ….. and what grates with Nationalists is that Unionism knows that !!”
Mark,
If being ‘pissed on from a height’ can justify that sort of hatred then what do you reckon being subjected to a sustained murder campaign would do?
“You obviously need to start reading on this issue as you are totally wrong.”
galloglaigh,
I strongly suggest that you read up on the so called battle of the Bogside and pay particular attention to the dates and what kicked them off.
“The RUC and ‘Loyalist hardmen’ did no such thing
You need to stop relying on the Orange Chronicle for your history lessons.
galloglaigh,
That’s a really interesting link, but I don’t see any reference in it to the RUC or ‘Loyalist hardmen’ attacking the Bogside. I do however see references to republicans rioting in the Bogside.
Did you have a point?
Saturday 4th January 1969:
As the march entered Derry it was again attached at Irish Street, a mainly Protestant area of the city. Finally the Royal Ulster Constabulary (RUC) broke up the rally that was held in the centre of the city as the march arrived. This action, and the subsequent entry of the RUC into the Bogside area of the city, led to serious rioting
Saturday 19th April 1969:
There was serious rioting in the Bogside area of Derry following clashes between Northern Ireland Civil Rights Association (NICRA) marchers, and Loyalists and members of the Royal Ulster Constabulary (RUC). A number of RUC officers entered the house of Samuel Devenny, who had not been involved in the disturbances, and severely beat him with batons causing internal injuries and a heart attack. A number of other people in the house were also beaten by the police including Devenny’s 16 year old and 18 year old daughters. [Samuel Devenny died on 17th July 1969 as a result of his injuries]
There’s at least two examples. Maybe a trip to specsavers tomorrow might cure your bad eyesight?
Did you also notice the amount of loyalist bombs in that early period. Long before the Provos came in to the fight:
30th March 1969
4th April 1969
20th April 1969
24yh April 1969
26th April 1969
19th October 1969
Do I need to keep proving you wrong?
galloglaigh,
There is still no reference in your links to the RUC and ‘Loyalist hardmen’ attacking the Bogside. I’m not sure what you think you are proving, but you are failing badly.
As I have already explained those bombs were directed at the unionist government. To suggest that the IRA launched their terror campaign as a retaliation for them is utter nonsense.
It’s there in plain English. You’re failing to impress with the denial of the facts. Read the links. Accept you’re wrong.
The bombs were bombs. The RUC were to busy attacking the civil rights movement to worry about their buddies and comrades in the UVF.
A number of RUC officers entered the house of Samuel Devenny in the bogside.
and the subsequent entry of the RUC into the Bogside area of the city
“The bombs were bombs. The RUC were to busy attacking the civil rights movement to worry about their buddies and comrades in the UVF.”
galloglaigh,
No one is denying that the bombs were bombs. Your claim is that the bombs led to retaliation from the IRA and that is utter nonsense. The bombs were aimed at the unionist government and would have done nothing but delight the IRA.
The RUC arrested the leadership of the UVF and they were sentenced to long terms of imprisonment. Don’t let the facts get in the way of your bullshit version of history.
“A number of RUC officers entered the house of Samuel Devenny in the bogside.”
In pursuit of rioters.
“and the subsequent entry of the RUC into the Bogside area of the city”
In pursuit of rioters.
Mark Thomas McDowell (45), a member of the Ulster Volunteer Force (UVF), was severely injured when a bomb he was planting exploded prematurely at a power station near Ballyshannon in County Donegal.
Clearly an attack on the gerrymandered Unionist government.
Now you’re getting into a chicken and egg scenario. The rioting initially started because the RUC, the B-Specials, and loyalist hardmen attacked civil rights marches during a march from Derry to Belfast in January 1969. Why were they attacked? Because they were a threat to the gerrymandered and discriminatory unionist one party rule. No matter how you twist it, you’re wrong.
And even more laughable to suggest that there was a riot in Sammy Devenny’s living room.
You’re views are getting more laughable by the minute. When are you on stage? I’d like to see that show!
Limerick
We get it. The damn Catholics are just uncivilized and entirely to blame for the Troubles. They love orgies of violence and destruction which is why they unilaterally started the Bogside Battle. They also all supported the Provos.
No matter that the first policeman shot, the first civilian murdered, the first soldier killed, the first house burned out, and the first bomb planted during the troubles were all by Unionists.
Thanks
galloglaigh,
The RUC and B Specials did not attack a civil rights march and again it is a testament to the power of republican propaganda in your community that you believe that they did. In fact they were attacked by a crowd of loyalists, and it was alleged that some of themn were off duty B Specials. At the time wildly inflated figures were put forward to back this up by nationalist politicians, but these were later shown to be false.
I never said there was a riot in Devenny’s living room. The riot was outside and when the police gave chase to the rioters a group of them made their escape via his front door. The police gave chase and encountered Devenny. The republican myth is that they then beat him to death. The reality is that he suffered a heart attack. The myth of course has long since been accepted as fact.
If you believe that the IRA launched their terror campaign in response to a bomb in Ballyshannon then you are quite clearly bonkers.
Brian,
Calm yourself down.
I thought the post was in the humour category. What happened?
Limerick
I guess your username does exactly what it says on the tin.
Your attempts to rewrite what happened to the Civil Rights march, and the beating of Sammy Devenny, are the stories peddled by Paisley and his ilk. But the world and their dog know the truth. I have posted enough evidence to make my point, and give it strength. All you have posted is unsubstantiated comments of your own. The B-Specials, the RUC, and loyalist hardmen started the troubles. Think what you want, but history will prove you wrong.
On another note:
I see the British army again admits to shooting an innocent Catholic in Derry. The truth is unravelling, and rightly so. They were all bad apples, that fell from a rotten tree!
Limerick
I am calm.
You may have noticed from the vitriol I have gotten on other comment threads from Provo supporters I am hardly a ‘Republican’ in the sense it is used in this wee country.
I hardly swallow Republican propaganda and have little time for the self proclaimed ‘soldiers’ of the pure and true Irish republic over the last several decades.
However, what happened during the civil rights marches is not up for debate. Catholics, with support from others, marched and all they wanted was equal rights. They were met with violent mobs, some of whom were armed with clubs and wood spiked with nails. In some instances the forces of the sectarian state took part and in others they sat and did nothing to stop the violence.
The IRA had ceased to exist by 1969 other than a small group of dreamers. Their resurrection in the form of the Provos owes everything to Unionist instransigence and violence, along with a healthy dose of British heavy-handedness.
Mick Fealty: I thought the post was in the humour category. What happened?
Any post on Republican mythology was bound to turn into this. Even if it was flagged as humour.
But think yourself lucky that most people avoided the shit jokes this time.
Just to clarify a point I made earlier on this thread:
The Police Ombudsman’s Office has provided to the Devenny family details of the Drury Report which established that on the night in question RUC officers entered their home at 69 William Street in the city sometime between 8.30pm and 9.06pm.
The Report records that prior to the police entering the house there had been ‘significant’ rioting, and that Mr Devenny, his son Harry and two family friends stood at his front door watching the riots. It also reports that as the rioting intensified the group went into the house and tried to close the front door. A number of youths ran passed them. Some ran upstairs and some into the backyard.
The Report records that the police forced the Devenny’s front door open but did not make any attempt to find the youths who had run into the house.
Among those in the house were nine Devenny children, ranging in ages from three years old to 21 years.
The Report says that officers beat Mr Devenny about the head and kicked and batoned him in front of his younger children. It records that he cried out repeatedly for the police to leave his children alone. It says he was left lying on the floor with blood pouring from a number of headwounds and with his dentures and spectacles broken.
The Report records that RUC officers attacked 16-year-old Catherine Devenny, who was lying on a sofa while recovering from surgery. It says she received baton blows to her thigh and back, was pulled off the sofa and kicked, before losing consciousness.
It records that 18-year-old Ann Devenny crept to her father and lay across him to protect him. She was then kicked and thrown across the room. She struggled back to her father but officers lifted her by her hair and forced her against the fireplace.
It records that as the officers left, Harry Devenny, aged 21, came into the room and was hit by a baton.
The report also details the officers’ attack on a family friend, who was left unconscious in the hallway and on another man in the house.
It identifies four officers that it believes knew what happened but who ‘were in fear of retribution from colleagues’ if they told the truth.
It records that a General Amnesty announced by the Prime Minister for Northern Ireland in respect of all criminal offences committed between October 5 1968 and May 6 1969 meant there could be no prosecution in relation to the Devenny case.
The Police Ombudsman has said she notes the gravity of Mr Drury’s
conclusion:
“Whilst it is appreciated that the officers…. on duty in the riot area on the day in question were under extreme provocation, being constantly attacked and sorely tried, there is no evidence that their action could be justified in any way and this code of conduct can never be condoned in any force responsible for the preservation of law and order.”
“Your attempts to rewrite what happened to the Civil Rights march, and the beating of Sammy Devenny, are the stories peddled by Paisley and his ilk. But the world and their dog know the truth.”
galloglaigh,
Then they must know that he died from a heart attack, because that is exactly what was discovered at his post mortem.
“The B-Specials, the RUC, and loyalist hardmen started the troubles.”
Is there any way of gauging just how widespread belief in this nonsense is in the general nationalist community? Obviously republican drones take it as a given, how else could they reconcile themselves with the disgusting crap that their people did in the Troubles, but is it widespread amongst normal nationalists? If we are to believe Brian’s claims to be a non drone then it must be current amongst at least some of them.
“It also reports that as the rioting intensified the group went into the house and tried to close the front door. A number of youths ran passed them. Some ran upstairs and some into the backyard.”
Exactly what I told you.
“I see the British army again admits to shooting an innocent Catholic in Derry.”
The man might still be alive if republicans in Londonderry hadn’t decided to start a ‘war’.
How many innocent Protestants did the army kill in the battle of the Shankil?
Let’s not twist it again. The UVF and the RUC started the recent troubles. Just like they did in 1920 in Derry!