Another Bookish Thread
We have not done a general thread about books for a very long time. I did one two years ago. I have just finished Kafka’s The Castle: I think I have now read most of his stuff. Metamorphosis was probably my favourite along with the In Penal Colony. Actually all Kafka is fairly heavy going: I tend to read a page or two and then stop for a think; the blurb explains part of the problem is a German literary device whereby one has enormously long sentences. I suspect the reason I go so slowly is stupidity (clearly I am reading it in English so the German language explanation does not really wash). Before Kafka I read Beckett’s Molloy. I have Murphy in front of me but now I am a bit fed up with being pretentious and might try something sensible: probably some history. I gave up completely on Finnegan’s Wake after 30-40 pages: that after managing Ulysses; at least it was in English. Any comments about books: pretentious, life changing or just fun are welcome.
Nunoftheabove @ 10:49 am and others:
My smartass throwaway comments apart, I’d agree with your points about e-books and their vehicles.
Let’s widen the notion.
I am for ever grateful for all those BBC radio adaptations and “books at bedtime”. That is how I first came to Asimov’s Foundation series, to Lindsey Davies’s Falco stories, and much, much more.
Yes, I do have numerous texts in audiobook format. I suspect every (ex-)English teacher does — along with the Argo recordings of Shakespeare plays. Who could be without the original 1954 (Richard Burton) Under Milk Wood? Or the Charles Parker Radio Ballads? — John Axon is on Radio Four Extra next Saturday, by the way. If those are “audiobooks” (in the loosest sense), I’m definitely a fan.
My e-reading was definitely spoiled by being an “early adopter”. I had various PDAs — Visors, Treos, Palms — when they first emerged. I found all of them unsatisfactory, except as inefficient diaries. I’m aware the technology is much advanced — and I confidently predict I’ll give way to iPad temptation on my next transAtlantic excursion.
Rory
That list is very surprising to me. I went to my last 3 years of high school in the States (in the Washington DC area) and 5,14,19, 21, and 49 were books that were required reading in my school district. (Actually, Mockingbird was a 9th grade book, but I recall my half-brother having to read it. I also just read an article about Harper Lee in Smithsonian magazine, and it relayed that that Mockingbird was the most commonly required book across the country among middle and high schools).
I guess that the list largely pulls its ‘banned’ data from a few evangelical areas of the South, or possibly from banned book over the years. It was certainly not my experience, I wasn’t aware of too many books that were banned (one I do remember being unable to get at the school library is Fear and Loathing in Las Vegas, which makes sense being banned). I first read Slaughterhouse 5 after picking it up in my school library.
When I get to a computer and off this i-phone I’m gonna go for a search of that list.
BTW, Harry Potter and the Crock o Sh*t, you got that right!!
I bought a kindle last year and have since bought two more for presents. The advantages I see with them are. They are great for travelling, All books out of copyright are free, you never loose your page and it is phisically much more managagable to read a big book such as war an peace on the kindle.
I suspect, Brian, that you are correct in assuming that the list is heavily weighted with books that have been banned from libraries in small Southern Baptist communities. That race played a bigger part than sex is largely confirmed by the inclusion of good ol’ Huck Finn which tends to run neck and neck with Moby Dick as THE Great American Novel in most critics’ eyes (it is akin to banning Dickens’s Oliver Twist or Fielding’s Tom Jones in England) while sensous, best selling sex thrillers of the 60′s lke Grace Metalious’s Peyton Place or Rona Jaafe’s The Best of Everything escaped censure. I surmise that the latter may be the case because those who would normally order these things were in fact too busy enjoying the thrills of steamy illicit WASP sex under brown paper wrappers.
Republican Stones,
Many thanks for the hat tip on Hardboiled Hollywood – Amazon were out of stock but I sourced a copy at London Books, the outlet shop for No Exit Press. I also managed to source a copy of Major Problems in the History of the American West from a Texas bookshop for under £6 (including postage).
On second thoughts, as I had forsworn any new purchses this month in order to reduce the plastic bills, maybe I should be cursing you instead of thanking you. But, what’s a guy to do? I’m addicted and that’s that.
Where can I see that list, Rory? There’s a book called ‘Boy’s Life’ by Robert McCammon, which has been banned in different schools in different states a few times. I’ve read it numerous times (it’s one of my favourite reads ever) and can’t really understand why it’s ever been banned. the reason given usually is the language, but I think there are only one or two wrods which might be offensive in it. I’d like to see if it made that list…
A quick Google will turn up numerous lists of “banned” books. I’ve often suggested the best way to encourage reading is to ban as many as possible. That Bill Shakespeare’s Romeo and Juliet is really mucky stuff — try explaining the psychology of the “Queen Mab” speech — which I assume is why it falls foul of the average school’s filter settings.
Apart from the ALA lists, Herbert N. Foerstel produced a “definitive” top 50 some 15 years back.
The major reason why Of Mice and Men is so high in the rankings is not the murder, nor the character of the unnamed girl: it’s the half-dozen occurrences of the word “nigger” (if Steinbeck is allowed it, so am I). In my chalkface years I repeatedly taught that text. Frequently a student, without prompting, would declare it a “racist” book. The answer was to work through each occurrence, and show that it was always put in the mouth of characters, never in Steinbeck’s authorial narrative. Furthermore, the most sympathetic depiction (the one, too, with the most extended description) is the Black stable-hand. I trust I generally won the case.
Let us not ignore our own little local difficulties and the Irish banned books list.
Despite the general belief to the contrary, Ulysses was not included. Borstal Boy and The Country Girls both were. So were works by Graham Greene, William Faulkner, Aldous Huxley, Thomas Wolfe …
The banning of books tells us a lot about the society which tries to do it, but nothing about the society’s morals.
Seimi,
The list can be found on the right on Slugger’s home page (back out of the thread you are in) just above Eamonn O’Mallies blogs in the section titled “Rollong News and Comment” under the heading “Harry Potter: America’s most challenged/banned book?”.
I am unable to find Robert McCammon’s Boy’s Life anywhere on the list but don’t be too disappointed, neither is Naked Lunch or Giovanni’s Room among others that we might think fittingly off-the-wall for southern Baptists.
Q: Why are Southern Baptists so down on dancing?
A: They don’t wan’t God to think they’re fucking standing up.
Thanks for that Rory. I’ll have to check the list out.
If you haven’t read Boy’s Life, I would highly recommend it. A lovely story, full of murder, suspense, ghosts, dinosaurs, love, bullies and dogs
Also, monsters, gunslingers, magic, baseball and monkeys
Stop it, Seimi, you’re scaring the life out of me.
Here is another terrific ‘Banned Books’ site which lists books other than those banned in the USA and gives more detail on each book and the reasons given for its banning.
http://www.banned-books.org.uk/
This entry on Ireland’s banning of one of the works of one of the very greatest prose writers in the English language, the late, much lamented, John McGahern is telling for reasons upon which I need not elaborate:
The Dark – John McGahern
Faber
Set in the rural north west of Ireland, The Dark concerns itself with themes of adolescence and guilty sexuality. It was banned in Ireland for its alleged pornographic content and suggestions of sexual abuse by the clergy, and The Dark also led to McGahern being dismissed from his job as a teacher.
Fiction, Modern classic
Recommended by: Kensington & Chelsea Libraries
I had mistakenly assumed that McGahern had lost his job as a schoolteacher upon the publication of his novel The Pornographer, the title alone of which might have been enough to frighten the bejasus out of ‘The Illiterati’ (as I dub them).
p.s. I have just learned that The Da Vinci Code was banned in Lebanon, which almost makes me want to rethink my total opposition to censorship. But then in a really healthy society there would have been no need to ban it – good taste would have ensured its failure.
The word ‘ban’ is often used for a much more level-headed deselection of reading matter. You have to be careful which books you make required reading in school: many will never read anything else; others will be unduly influenced by them.
I would not allow the reading of Harry Potter in schools, because there is a risk that some of the scholars might have read him before, and become bored and disruptive. I would not allow the reading of The Colour Purple, because the narration is not in standard English, and the content matter depressing and liable to be offensive to parents.
Kafka and Becket I read in my late teens, but would not set them for English Literature because they were not originally written in English .
Currently I am reading Peter Ackroyd’s Thomas More.
Perhaps I should specify that in the above I am referring to the compulsory reading of a literary works in class, as part of an English Literature course: in this context you need to exercise both taste and caution.
I am not saying that these books should not be in the school library.
Who Was Then The Gentleman,a novel about the peasants revolt of 1381,by Charles E Israel.
One of the most powerful books I have ever read.
Highly recommended !!
PaddyReilly @ 8:39 pm:
I would not allow the reading of The Colour Purple, because the narration is not in standard English, and the content matter depressing and liable to be offensive to parents.
How do those three considerations differ, in principle, from the reasons given for “banning” Of Mice and Men?
[This post was generated without harming any sock-puppet.]
Rory et al.
Got a chance to look at the ALA list. It actually is NOT a list of banned books, but banned/challenged books. Most of those books were never actually banned in the 2000-2009 period for which list covers..
“Due to the commitment of librarians, teachers, parents, students and other concerned citizens, most challenges are unsuccessful and most materials are retained in the school curriculum or library collection.”
The list makes more sense to me know, because I couldn’t imagine even in Jerry Falwell country most of those books being succesfully banned. Unfortunately, that website doesn’t have a list of books that actually were banned (unless I managed to miss it).
As was mentioned above by Harry, often times if the word “nigger” is in a book someone will try to have it banned. I recall seeing on the news a few years book some parent’s well-meaning but idiotic, and unsuccessful, attempt to ban Huckleberry Finn for its use of the N-word.
Here were the most challanged in the last year (I am not familiar with most of them):
“1.And Tango Makes Three, by Peter Parnell and Justin Richardson
Reasons: homosexuality, religious viewpoint, and unsuited to age group
2.The Absolutely True Diary of a Part-Time Indian, by Sherman Alexie
Reasons: offensive language, racism, sex education, sexually explicit, unsuited to age group, and violence
3.Brave New World, by Aldous Huxley
Reasons: insensitivity, offensive language, racism, and sexually explicit
4.Crank, by Ellen Hopkins
Reasons: drugs, offensive language, and sexually explicit
5.The Hunger Games, by Suzanne Collins
Reasons: sexually explicit, unsuited to age group, and violence
6.Lush, by Natasha Friend
Reasons: drugs, offensive language, sexually explicit, and unsuited to age group
7.What My Mother Doesn’t Know, by Sonya Sones
Reasons: sexism, sexually explicit, and unsuited to age group
8.Nickel and Dimed, by Barbara Ehrenreich
Reasons: drugs, inaccurate, offensive language, political viewpoint, and religious viewpoint
9.Revolutionary Voices, edited by Amy Sonnie
Reasons: homosexuality and sexually explicit
10.Twilight, by Stephenie Meyer
Reasons: religious viewpoint and violence”
…
@ malcolm , rory et al
A bit late to this thread having just returned from the no internet zone for a few weeks
What did we do when there was no internet ?
Been reading Nicholas Carr’s ‘The Shallows ‘ as in what the internet is doing to our brains a fascinating and at times scary read. Also David Eagleman’s ‘Incognito ‘ on the secret life of the ‘brain’. Still batting away through Naomi Klein’s ‘No Logo ‘ and just finished a book I picked up at a book sale for one euro – Alistair Cooke’s Six Men – Alistair Cooke of ‘A Letter from America ‘ fame . The Six Men with whom he had more than journalistic relationship were Charlie Chaplin, H.L Mencken, Humphrey Bogart, Adlai Stevenson, Bertrand Russell and Edward VIII.
Some assigned reading while at that fine Jesuit prep, Loyola HS, in LA:
Even Cowgirls Get The Blues (dedicated to the amoeba and on the premise that our asexual friends might still be here, since with no mutation and DNA being what we are physically, then the same amoeba (DNA) that first lived may still be alive and floating in that one water drop on you on your raft in the pool…the amoeba).
Catcher In The Rye
A Walker In The City (what I usually lend or recommend to those who question why, more important than the standard tourist fare and the partying is the walking in the city)(also reminds one to catch the richness just next door).
Of Mice And Men (let me tend the rabbits)
And if some with to know more about US history in relation to some others:
http://www.amazon.com/Invasion-America-Indians-Colonialism-Conquest/dp/0393008304
http://www.amazon.com/Long-Death-Last-Plains-Indians/dp/0806133082
To continue:
http://www.amazon.com/Custer-Died-Your-Sins-Manifesto/dp/0806121297
http://www.amazon.com/Lame-Seeker-Visions-Enriched-Classics/dp/0671888021 (and note the comment by Orion X, and since I’ve read the work I largely agree, and so pick yourself up a copy of Black Elk Speaks as well)
Now moving on:
http://www.amazon.com/Unlikely-Liberators-Men-100th-442nd/dp/0824810813
http://books.google.com/books/about/Letters_from_the_442nd.html?id=S_b6ybdkFpwC
Lastly for now, from the wife at home to her man the regimental chaplain:
http://libweb.hawaii.edu/libdept/archives/mss/aja/higuchi/hisako.htm
I have to say to Slappymcgroundout at 5:38 am that I am deeply, deeply impressed by the syllabus of that fine Jesuit prep, Loyola HS, in LA. Even in my most liberal moments I’d never have proposed Tom Robbins, Sissy Hankshaw and the doings at the Rubber Rose Ranch for school study.
Some interesting stuff there, especially that last one — which I shall investigate with considerable interest.
I my post-retirement I was called in to take over an A-level class which was committed to studying, as a set text, David Guterson’s Snow Falling on Cedars. Quite how that one snuck in — especially noting the stipulations of PaddyReilly @ 8:39 pm — is beyond me. I found it pretty turgid stuff, difficult to maintain a pretence of enthusiasm. It did, among other things, introduce me to
¶ the Pig War of 1859 (which appeared also in Amanda Foreman’s A world on Fire (see above);
and
¶ Executive Order 9066, the internment of Japanese-Americans and the “Relocation Centers” such as Manzanar.
I don’t know how others took it, but I found Guterson hard work, and his dénouement profoundly unconvincing.
But Tom Robbins … wow! That takes the chocky biscuit, wrapper ‘n’ all.
Malcolm
I have not received the “World on Fire”in the mail yet, but as you read it I was hoping you could answer a question about. I recall in a review that Foreman relates how thousands of Irish immigrants eagerly signed up for the Union Army in the mistaken belief/impression that they, and the US, would be fighting the British (along with countless others who signed up for 3 square meals and a chance at social improvement). Do you recall that part of the book? Were recruiting agents actively misleading them or did the hysterical press lead them to believe that Britain would soon be in the fight with the Confederates? (I’d imagine fresh off the boat immigrants were easily fooled…and don’t doubt the enthusiasism of any Irishman of that period to jump any any chane to take up arms against the Crown)
It was a long book, I understand if you don’t recall that particular passage!
(Munsterview would probably know a lot about this history off the top of his head but I haven’t seen him around these parts lately)
Brian @ 6:11 pm:
At the risk of outstaying my welcome, and trespassing on Turgon’s hospitality, I’ll have a go at that small matter.
Certainly Foreman didn’t confirm what was my preconception — that decent Irish lads were being kidnapped wholesale off the immigrant ships and wrenched from the bosoms of their families.
So, there are three main references to the Irish immigrant and recruitment — and this may take some time.
¶ Page 114 [i.e. 1861]
Foreman helpfully prefaces her tract with a list of Dramatis Personae, which tells us Sir Edward Mortimer Archibald (1810-94) was British Consul at New York, 1857-71.
Now let’s go, for convenience, to a further post.
Still with me, Brian @ 6:11 pm?
¶ Pages 503-4 [i.e. 1863]
Footnote 1:
Page 504ff continues with a detailed account of the New York Lottery Riots.
Onwards to a third post.
See wht I mean about taxing everyone’s patience, Brian @ 6:11 pm?
This should complete my current stint:
¶ Pages 581-583 [i.e. later in 1863, just after the Alabama affair]
Footnote 2:
Footnote 3:
I trust all that came over as nature and a bit of seat intended.
Sweat, dammit. Sweat.
Anyone any tips on how to explain to ‘her indoors’ that you don’t get rid of a book just because ‘you’ve read that’?!!!!
My favorite genre is the ‘historical’ novel, Cornwells ‘Arthur’ and ‘uthred’ series, Wilbur smith’s sunbird & river god, Steven Saylor’s ‘gordianus the finder’ & ‘roma’ series, Follett ‘pillars of the earth’ etc etc. it’s years since i have read anything closer to home as its depressing enough without knowing more! but I recently revisited A History of Ulster by
Jonathan Bardon.
other non-fiction i have read recently and enjoyed … The fall of Constantinople 1453 by Steven Runciman and the Classical World: An Epic History of Greece and Rome by Robin Lane Fox.
Malcolm
Thanks for taking the trouble, I greatly enjoyed reading those passages. A while back I read a book on the Fenian movement in the US, and it relayed how at different times in the Civil War prominent Fenians were able to cross through the lines and meet with their Fenian comrades who were fighting for the opposite side.
Footnote 3 was quite a story.
‘They were taken by train to Boston, where they were locked in a warehouse and given nothing but whisky.’
Reminds me of my fraternity days…
Thanks are due, Brian @ 4:25 am, mainly to Mr Adobe and his amazing Acrobat Pro, and all the little electrons who worked so nicely.
We’re off the main topic here, but I should have noted an end-note (page 900):
That intrigued me because I think it calls into question that term Irish-American. Does it mean simply those who migrated to either side purely to enlist? If it also includes longer residents of the States, still claiming Irish connection and even birth, then the numbers are patently far too low.
Beyond that again, there must have been a far greater representation of Ulster-Scots among the Rebels. I keep coming up against Ulster Prods who are convinced of a close connection to Stonewall Jackson — recently I was even allowed to handle what I was confidently assured was his pepperpot pistol.
Best not pursue that too far. It might in the short term exceed even Turgon’s patience with asides. It might also call into debate Belfast’s role in slave-trading.
One other loose end, which points me a way to future reading, is Foreman’s epilogue sketching the period down to 1875. She briefly notes the Fenian raids into Canada (May-June 1866) which had at least a nod-and-a-wink from the Johnson Administration.
Malcolm, I have more of an affinity with U S Grant, who’s ancestors lived close by (who knows maybe even a relation) so the ulster Scots community was divided, maybe not equally but significantly enough not to put them on either side, geography had more to do the side you were on than any issues or ethnic group, and even Lincoln said it had little to do with slavery. Interestingly I was reading of quite a few Nova Scotians volunteering for the North, although much of Canada also did well trading with both sides. Makes you realise America dosn’t have much firm ground to lecture the rest of the world after all, maybe thats why they are quick to whitewash various groups and nations past deeds.
Ah, Drumlins Rock @ 2:22 pm, you’re making me all nostalgic for old times and the Sluggers of yesteryear.
Before this delightful thread staggers to its conclusion, let me throw in my present bed-side book.
Until yesterday afternoon I was plodding through Connie Willis’s Blackout. Despite all the reviews, I wasn’t doing too well.
I happened to pass my local independent bookshop (so conveniently mid-way between the supermarket and the local pub). As a result of a 3-for-2 sale I hit on a paperback copy of Joseph O’Neill’s Blood Dark Track. On a previous parallel thread here I raved about O’Neill’s Netherland, which seemed to do a lot better in the US and Ireland than in the GB bit of the UK. I’d also dipped into a borrowed copy of Blood Dark Track, so it was a no-brainer.
What O’Neill does is a parallel history of his two grandfathers — one a Syrian-Turkish Christian imprisoned in WW2 Palestine by the British; the other a veteran of the 1st Cork Brigade IRA, interned by the de Valera government in the “Emergency”.
Ms Willis will have to wait.
Heinz , after your Graham McDowell tip for the golf last week , I think I’ll pass .
Between The Bridges , I grabbed Blood and Thunder last week as you suggested and it seems ok . I remember you saying it was an oursiders view and as i said , it seems fine however an insiders view ( an honest one ) is one I’d like to read . Maybe you could send Mick something , I mean for all your faults ( lol ) you seem an honest guy , a bit like lamhdearg .
John O Neill of Slugger fame recommended a book / books by Flann O Brien ( I bought At swim – Two – Birds ) however i had my barin with me on hols at Easter and never reallt got into it . As I really enjoy John’s work I will find the time .
Like you Bridges , I tend to keep away from you know what subject but Killing Rage by Eamon Collins is worth reading as it’s warts and all . While I wouldn’t agree with alot of what he says , it’s one of the better ” troubles ” book .
I was given Trinity ( Leon Uris ) by my Gran a long time ago and that had a lot to do with what I read subsequently .
I have read Joseph O’Neill’s Blood Dark Track, a most intriguing investigation by O’Neill into dark secrets on both sides of his parentage and I must say that am happy to find in Malcolm Redfellow someone who is scathing as I am of Snow Falling on Cedars (or Mugs Falling for Hype as I now categorise its readership – including chiefly, myself).
But if we are going to talk American Indians and Scots emigration to the U.S. (okay, I know I’m stretching it a bit), I would heartily recommend James Hunter’s Glencoe and the Indians about which you will find all you need to know here:
http://tinyurl.com/3mj85co
and you will be able to buy a copy on Amazon for 1p (+ £2.80 postage).
Mark, just to return the compliment i will give it a go (collins book). it’s not that i haven’t read plenty re ‘the troubles’, i just got fed up reading about the stupidly of it all and for the last 10 years or so have avoided all the ‘mad dog’ and ‘dead men walking’ etc.
i can remember (as a teenager) the first ‘ira book’ i read, was by John Stevenson/ Sean Mac Stiofan (just checked on Amazon and it’s worth 70quid!,mum’s roof space will have to be checked!) quiet a character, born in england to an english & a ulster prod parent, brought up catholic, joined the army, joined ira. there’s just something about having been a corporal that drive’s them (corporals) nuts, lol.
Re submitting something to mick i think the poor man has enough to deal with without correcting my spelling and grammar! anyway life in a rural band is very mundane! out of the 40 odd parades we do, only one is deemed ‘contentious’. even at that participants and protestors usually share the same car park and then walk to opposite sides of the road for a bit of flag waving!
Re Leon Uris, trinity, exodus, haj, Mila 18 all great novels.
Between the Bridges , I must confess I’ve only read Trinity and Redemption and I did read somewhere that Uris based the character of Thomas / Conor ( ? ) Larkin on the then future Deputy First Minister .
But moving swiftly away from current affairs ( Great Hatred , Little Room was the straw that broke the camel’s back for me ) as you can probably tell , I’m a huge sports fan and have just finished Brian Moore’s ” Beware of the Dog ( England Hooker as I’m sure you know ) . Now that’s a book that I’m not sure fits in the sports catagory but a great read all the same .
What about ” The Damned Utd ” by David Peace ? . Great book crap film . That leeds team never got the credit …..
“I have to say to Slappymcgroundout at 5:38 am that I am deeply, deeply impressed by the syllabus of that fine Jesuit prep, Loyola HS, in LA. Even in my most liberal moments I’d never have proposed Tom Robbins, Sissy Hankshaw and the doings at the Rubber Rose Ranch for school study.”
I assume that it was on the reading list owing to:
“You have taught us much. Come with us and join the movement.”
“This movement of yours, does it have slogans?” inquired the Chink.
“Right on!” they cried. And they quoted him some.
“Your movement, does it have a flag?” asked the Chink.
“You bet!” and they described their emblem.
“And does your movement have leaders?”
“Great leaders.”
“Then shove it up your butts,” said the Chink. “I have taught you nothing.”
My personal fav line:
As a child, I was an imaginary playmate.
Lastly, the other reason why on the reading list:
One has not only an ability to perceive the world, but an ability to alter one’s perception of it; more simply, one can change things by the manner in which one looks at them.