Slugger O'Toole

Conversation, politics and stray insights

POTD – A Backward step?

Fri 17 June 2011, 8:12am

This is the mural that replaced the Glens Mural…hardly a step forward. It is worth noting the language used in this. Who is the message aimed at?

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Comments (52)

  1. Lisieux (profile) says:

    The quote is from Edward Carson

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  2. Glensman (profile) says:

    I was driving a friend through Mayo recently and they were changing the Mural.
    I said ‘They’ll have got a grant to replace some offensive mural with something more community orientated.’ ‘Just right’ he said.
    Then I was going to Connwater on my lunch and see that thing!..
    Could live without seeing that kind off stuff, I can’t imagine it’s nice for the locals either…

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  3. Mick Fealty (profile) says:

    That visual motif seems to carry the opposite message of the one written about.

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  4. Turgon (profile) says:

    Mick,
    Of course true but I think the “elementary right… to defend yourself” is actually in UVF speak broadened to defending their drug dealing, protection and prostitution rackets, shooting people and all those other “rights” which the UVF seem to feel that they have.

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  5. Lisieux (profile) says:

    The quote is from Edward Carson. It is referenced here:
    http://tinyurl.com/69hckak

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  6. andnowwhat (profile) black spot says:

    The people need to move those ladders in their yard. There could be criminals about.

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  7. Drumlins Rock (profile) says:

    For once it appears Mooch isn’t making a petty point score but is revealing one aspect of some very sinister goings on in East Belfast, as Brian Rowan has noted in the Tele http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/northern-ireland/fears-over-loyalist-ceasefire-16012270.html neither is nice to see or read, I hope it is just local and quickly fizzles out.

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  8. Nunoftheabove (profile) says:

    Goodness, how sweet. Summer’s here at last. About time we had some proper traditional loyalist demagoguery. They’re a bit late getting it started this year though, no ?

    Seeking or asserting this implanted (implanted ?) right would we think ? Would by any chance their definition of ‘attack’ include, say, the right not to be inconvenienced by the forces and agencies of the state in the process of running brothels, drug rackets, smuggling, intimidating youngsters, extorting small businesses, perpetuating acts of poisonous sectarianism, evading taxes and shaking down the benefits system, stirring up societal tensions and exploiting the credulous, that sort of thing ?

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  9. JR (profile) says:

    The tourists love them though.

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  10. Dec (profile) says:

    Is the public going to get back the £3.3m loyalists were given to remove paramilitary murals?

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  11. andnowwhat (profile) black spot says:

    I’ve seen some of Belfast’s prosssys walking around the city. I don’t know if they “belong” to the UVF but they might benefit from a balaclava over their coupons

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  12. Nordie Northsider (profile) says:

    Interesting how much of loyalist iconography is about declaring their blamelessness: ‘Their only crime loyalty’ etc.

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  13. joeCanuck (profile) says:

    MP,

    You have publicized a number of these recently. Do you or anyone know why NOW?

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  14. Mike the First (profile) says:

    That message is odd…haven’t they decommissioned all their weaponry?

    Ho hum.

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  15. pippakin (profile) says:

    Who paid for this and who stood idly by while it was ‘done’?

    Only in Ireland and then only in the north. If it was up to me I would round up all terrorists and make them scrub these murals away – with tooth brushes.

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  16. Drumlins Rock (profile) says:

    tooth brushes? they should be made lick it off the walls!

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  17. Turgon (profile) says:

    Joe,
    As to why now? I can only speculate. However, since the mural is close to the PUP offices I wonder if this is a response by the UVF to the local community rejecting the PUP. Essentially it could be construed as saying “You can vote out our political representatives but you cannot so easily get rid of us”

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  18. andnowwhat (profile) black spot says:

    @Turgon

    The a photo of the outline for this mural was posted on P.ie a couple of days after the assembly results.

    At the time, it was briefly featured on Nolan where Jim Rodgers (a Glens fan by all accounts) said that it would be in honour of the old UVF. Odd that as the outline was very clearly of men in masks with modern weapons.

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  19. Nunoftheabove (profile) says:

    Turgon

    “Yeah, after all we’ve done for you you go and vote for somebody else…yiz flock-abandoning, lily livered taig tolerating wretches that yiz are”.

    Who knew just what sensitive souls these touchingly community minded salt of the earth gangster and sectarian murder types really were.

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  20. andnowwhat (profile) black spot says:

    It’s truly astonishing the lack of heat loyalist groups get considering the amount of activity they’re knowingly involved in.

    Minds you, I guess there are speeding tickets to be handed out.

    Which reminds me, Matt Baggot? Anyone seen him?

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  21. qwerty12345 (profile) says:

    Am I the only person to scratch my head every time “mainstream” unionists start getting annoyed about the naughty loyalists.

    Apparently armed loyalism exists in a vacuum completely removed from the historical decades long sectarian ranting and manipulation of mainstream unionism.

    Look at the Carson quote. Thats how Gusty felt in 66. Who put those thoughts in his head?

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  22. PaulT (profile) says:

    is it me or have these people spent a lot of time painting a brick wall onto a brick wall.

    It kinda sez it all, donkey years behind republican public art, and copying styles from the 90′s

    All the cash handed out, I would have been impressed if they could have done something a bit Banksy, ye know, incorporated the actual brickwall and some other feature, for example the flag, maybe several UVF around the base of the pole Iwo Jima style.

    yeah its offensive more for the quality of work than for anything else.

    Hasn’t some nameless ‘senior’ unionist politican been warning us about this, should nationalists be worried about waking up some morning to find a badly painted mural on their gable wall.

    But valid point how come the daddy of NI can say it but not the drones.

    But, it’s not been a waste, I’ve learned something today

    “…said that it would be in honour of the old UVF. Odd that as the outline was very clearly of men in masks with modern weapons…”

    I’d always wondered what the different was between Carons UVF and the newer model, 60′s fashion and automatic rifles apparently.

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  23. JR (profile) says:

    I love the way its all for “God and Ulster” I am sure they dont feel in any way hypocritical when painting that in. I suppose they think Gods work must involve prostitution, sectarianism, drugdealing etc.

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  24. Manus McSweeny (profile) says:

    there must not have been enough room on the wall to put – if you attack uvf cars and homes we’ll defend ourselves by taking off your face with a shotgun as Bobby Moffit found out

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  25. pippakin (profile) says:

    DR

    That would be a cruel and inhuman punishment, the human rights industry would be all over it… where is your sense of decency?? lol.

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  26. belfastjj (profile) says:

    “Who is the message aimed at?”

    You should have asked that of the good authority you were talking to about the number of murals !!

    Maybe its the the attackers of Susan street cluan place etc etc – but sure you never mention that ?

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  27. tacapall (profile) says:

    Of course the message is aimed at Catholics, who else could it be unless of course its directed at the HET ya know, stop arresting us for all those killings we were allowed to do and letting all those RUC special Branch officers off or we’ll start defending ourselves and take out a few catholics – er we mean dissidents but anyone who votes Sinn Fein will do as they’re not nice people and they have no morals not like us protestants. Now that the elephant in the room is finally being seen by Unionism do ya think Ruth Patterson can now condemn the breakaway faction of the UVF in the Village area who have been planting bombs and targetting Nationalist homes on a regular basis in the Broadway, St James area.

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  28. Bjj…..what about your statement (on yesterdays POTD) that i was wrong and there will be more than 10 of these? Or was that just another excuse to have a pop at me.
    What have you got to say about that rather than the usual yapping that i’m running down the “good Unionist folks of East Belfast”.
    Why don’t you actually pass a comment that isn’t whataboutery or directed at me. Your commenting record speaks for itself…even when i was away in Haiti you made reference to me ffs!
    Once again i state clearly i live in the East and i document what i see and your responses say far far more about you than they do about me.

    BTW i await an email to tell me of how your contribution to the Caribbean Royal record in Haiti [email protected]

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  29. Comrade Stalin (profile) says:

    As to why now? I can only speculate. However, since the mural is close to the PUP offices I wonder if this is a response by the UVF to the local community rejecting the PUP. Essentially it could be construed as saying “You can vote out our political representatives but you cannot so easily get rid of us”

    I wonder which of the six representatives who *were* elected will be calling for the mural’s removal.

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  30. Mark McGregor (profile) says:

    About time Loyalism returned to commemorating the UVF, UFF etc

    That nonsense of pretending murals of the Titanic, George Best, the Somme, Glentoran and the Queen Mum somehow represented the legacy of loyalist gangs was increasingly bizarre.

    Now we are back to having Loyalism represented as what it was – masked killers (though I doubt they ever wore white belts while on active random catholic killing service)

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  31. Brian (profile) says:

    Sickening….

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  32. belfastjj (profile) says:

    Hi MP i was pointing out you were wrong and that there will be more than 10 “not a pop as you call it”

    My perception and that of others is that you do run down the “good Unionist folks of East Belfast” sorry if that offends you.

    You asked a question “Who is the message aimed at” its not my fault you didnt like the answer or are you denying that those residents arent being attacked ?

    As for “Caribbean Royal” – i’ve never heard of them

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  33. So how do you know i am wrong?
    Blimey an apology!!

    Well if you want to be pedantic fine but you mentioned in this thread

    that you had helped ‘Royal Caribbean’ at Labadee and as you will see i have asked for details as regards that but if as usual you don’t wish to answer question i can only assume it’s internet b/s then

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  34. pippakin (profile) says:

    “Now we are back to having Loyalism represented as what it was – masked killers (though I doubt they ever wore white belts while on active random catholic killing service)”

    And here was me thinking the balaclava was part of the IRA uniform…

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  35. belfastjj (profile) says:

    How do you know your right ?

    Yes i did mention you because obsession with graffiti

    Oh its royal caribbean now – yes i did get involved – why do i have to reveal my contacts ?

    I’m not sure what b/s means i hope thats not a cover for swearing

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  36. carl marks (profile) says:

    amazing the uvf put a disgusting mural on a wall and somehow ts the ira’s fault,
    when will some of you grow up these people are gangsters they sell drugs to protestant children run brothels, protection rackets, beat up or expel anyone who disagree,s with them or dares to oppose them now a series of violent murals appear on the east of the city and the god fearing upstanding moral unionists (with a few notable exceptions) quickly get round to blaming the usual suspects it mp’s fault, it’s the ira’s fault,it,s the thugs in the short strand’s fault but it’s not the uvf’s fault

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  37. wee buns (profile) says:

    ‘’Is it me or have these people spent a lot of time painting a brick wall onto a brick wall.’’

    I’d guess that is the influence of Escher.
    Note the conflicting direction of the stratum of brickwork to the existing surrounding brickwork. This creates a subtle optical illusion. By the clever manipulation of perspective it toys with our sense of direction. The bricks are backward yet the forward facing figures are figuratively kneecapped. A Wonderful piece.
    http://www.cord.edu/faculty/andersod/escher.html

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  38. Bjj…..Once again you avoid the question. You are telling me i am wrong and that there are going to be more than 10 so how do you know that?
    Yeah i am interested in grafitti but hardly obsessed.
    And am interested in hearing what you think you were involved with in Haiti as it ties in with my own experience over there. If you did indeed play your own little part why are you being so coy about it?
    Anyway i’ll ask you again(5th time of asking) to drop me an email to tell me what your ideas to the President of the cruise company were and how they made a difference. Alternatively you could share it here on slugger

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  39. Mrs jones (profile) says:

    The Quote is from Edward Carson,who was of course educated at Trinity College.If Peter Robinson was at the Top of the Ladder,who’d be at the Bottom?

    ‘We Sought Nothing But A Few Quid From The Peace Process?-460,000 unemployed people who killed Nobody only want Employment.’

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  40. belfastjj (profile) says:

    Oh you never name your source MP

    you are obsessed with it and flags

    You can ask 6/7/8th time – i’m not playing to your tune – but i can assure its fact !!

    And royal caribbean listened to myself and others

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  41. pippakin (profile) says:

    carl marx

    I see no difference between thugs. Oh you can drone on about prostitution etc but I could mention a number of murders an incest charge, a child abuse charge and a couple of rape allegations, and all that without including Kingsmill…

    The fact is both sects use the balaclava because its not that clever to be seen for what they are.

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  42. belfastjj (profile) says:

    Who is the message aimed at?

    http://saoirse32.blogsome.com/2011/05/05/

    UTV News – New UVF murals painted in east Belfast http://t.co/lsv6d4j

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  43. Reader (profile) says:

    belfastjj: Who is the message aimed at?
    Interesting link to the Republican mural – I like the bit where the committee member said “This is a skilled and detailed painting, and it is the actual firing party portrayed in detail” – there were a number of clearly drawn faces in the crowd too. I expect a couple of them will be painted out like Denis Donaldson as we find out a bit more about the past.
    Anyway – that’s beside the point. There shouldn’t be loyalist murals – there’s no merit to copying a bad idea.

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  44. Bjj – I didn’t ask you to name your “source”
    I suppose i will just have to believe your assurance that in fact you did do some good for Royal Caribbean. You have my email addy should you decide not to be so defensive.

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  45. carl marks (profile) says:

    pippakin (profile) says:
    18 June 2011 at 7:32 am

    carl marx

    I see no difference between thugs. Oh you can drone on about prostitution etc but I could mention a number of murders an incest charge, a child abuse charge and a couple of rape allegations, and all that without including Kingsmill…

    The fact is both sects use the balaclava because its not that clever to be seen for what they are.

    of course you could mention a couple of incest charge’s etc go ahead mention away it wont distract people from the fact that a group of thugs painted a mural celebreting murderers on a wall and are going to paint more and rather than put the blame were it belong’s you engage in whataboutery.
    talk about proving someone’s point for them thank’s pippakin

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  46. pippakin (profile) says:

    carl marx

    I made no attempt at whataboutery. As far as I’m concerned loyalists thugs are no better or worse than IRA thugs: they are all thugs.

    I believe all the ‘murals’ or what the real world calls graffiti should come down I made that clear in my first comment along with who the ‘cleaners’ should be and the materials they should use.

    If you think your thug is better than their thug then you have a problem.

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  47. carl marks (profile) says:

    pippakin (profile) says:
    17 June 2011 at 9:57 pm

    “Now we are back to having Loyalism represented as what it was – masked killers (though I doubt they ever wore white belts while on active random catholic killing service)”

    And here was me thinking the balaclava was part of the IRA uniform…

    I see no difference between thugs. Oh you can drone on about prostitution etc but I could mention a number of murders an incest charge, a child abuse charge and a couple of rape allegations, and all that without including Kingsmill…

    The fact is both sects use the balaclava because its not that clever to be seen for what they are.

    pippakin (profile) says:
    19 June 2011 at 10:49 am

    carl marx

    I made no attempt at whataboutery.

    sorry what is all the above

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  48. carl marks (profile) says:

    by the why pippakin i dont have a thug i am not a supporter of any armed group nor do i vote for any party that is or was linked to one.
    i am however a republician and if you cant get your head around the fact that a person can be a republician and not support killingor harming eople then you have a lot to learn

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  49. pippakin (profile) says:

    carl marks

    I wasn’t going to answer because I thought my original comment/s were self explanatory. Let me spell it out: I hate the idea of heavily disguised ‘volunteers’ setting forth to hurt people. I don’t care which side they are on they are all the same to me.

    I’m a republican and when Ireland is united I want it to be by the ballot.

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  50. carl marks (profile) says:

    pip
    i apoligse i have went through your profile and find out that you do not engage in whataboutry (ay least no mor often than e rest of us) but i stand over my remarks about the mural and the uvf an still believe that some of your comments were a distraction from the thread.
    got to go now havea few friends to meet on a hill dont worry we wont be waving gun permits

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  51. [...] of Progressive Unionist party leader Dawn Purvis, it has become depressingly clear among acute observers of Belfast’s loyalist communities that the loyalist paramilitary UVF has been purposefully [...]

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  52. [...] of Progressive Unionist party leader Dawn Purvis, it has become depressingly clear among acute observers of Belfast’s loyalist communities that the loyalist paramilitary UVF has been purposefully [...]

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