Queen’s Visit: Time to move on but not to forget…
‘I have signed my own death warrant’; so (allegedly) did Michael Collins spake after he had signed The Treaty in London in 1921.
Collins’s support for the Anglo-Irish Treaty which both agreed to the partition of the country and required elected representatives in the new state to promise to be faithful to His Majesty King George V (the Queen’s grandfather) was to lead to civil war and Collins’s own untimely death on the 22 August 1922.
Irish attitudes to the Queen’s visit are largely supportive but also tempered with awareness of the often violent and destructive nature of our relationship with the British Crown.
The Queen visits Collins’s Rebel County on Friday and the ditty below arguably captures the Country’s mood. Perhaps it is time to move on from the past. But not to forget it?
Click here for Her Majesty in Corcaigh.
Region: Ireland, Northern Ireland, UK
Michael Gillespie,
“If you had used the word British to a Norman he wouldn’t have known what you were talking about.”
This is an arguement about the substance of the relationship between Britain and France (a realtionship which most British seem to be in denial of ) not a debate about the etymology of the word ‘British’.
The British and French states are clearly 2 branches from the same tree, both are are large states who have historically pursued their interests at the expense of smaller states such as Ireland – whilst warring with just about everybody that they could find who would fight them – or of course with themselves – they have more in common with each other than either have with Ireland.
As the Queens speech indicated we are separate and equal partners who have reached a compromise over Ulster which will continue to likley to continue to cause some diffiuclty for both our countries – but hopefully only in a non violent fashion.
Michael Gillespie- You are right to a certain degree. On the one hand I want a United Ireland and I am unlikely to waver from that notion. On the other hand I am open to new ideas in other respects including the make-up of that desired Republic. I would like it to be secular and a warm, cosy place for unionists, nationalists, immigrants and everybody else.
I can see the benefit of economies of scale that would come with a United Ireland, one administration, one tax system, one set of public services, one economy, etc.
I can also see the benefit of the economies of scale of a United Kingdom of Ireland and Britain but I don’t like monarchies.
I am in the Tony Benn camp when it comes to UK politics so I wouldn’t be happy with today’s coalition or a New Labour government. I wouldn’t be happy with much of the politics in the south either with the graft, the corruption etc. and would welcome any new ideas in that regard.
Unionists would also be more likely than Sinn Fein to be accepted into government in a United Ireland as they hold similar ‘bread and butter’ policies to the established parties in the South and could take advantage of the PR elections.
Hedley Lamarr
You say you want a desired Republic—that is a cosy place for unionists etc. That is a contradiction in terms. Unionists belong in the loyalist tradition in Ireland. You cannot fit loyalists into a Republic. To say that you can is plain nonsense. If you want a united Ireland as I do it will have to be a country in which Loyalists are free to express loyalty to the Crown as Orange men do. Try fitting the Orange Order and the Apprentice Boys of Derry into a Republic and loyalist Ulster will explode. In the 26 county Republic Loyalists were crushed out of existence. The same fate would await Loyalists in your desired Republic.
I grew up with a protestant community in the heart of Tyrone. Catholics will affirm that you can’t find a better neighbour than a Protestant but they will also affirm that their protestant neighbours are loyalist with a deep lasting respect and commitment to the Crown. That is their heritage and their human right which cannot be suppressed in a Republic. It was known that in the border areas of Tyrone and Fermanagh attempts were made by the IRA to ethnically cleanse these areas of Loyalists. How does that square with your desired Republic?
Federal Unionism-Early Sinn Fein proposes a realistic united 32 county Irish Nation with the Crown as head of state in which Loyalists are free to express their human right of loyalty. There are over a million Loyalists in Ireland and they won’t go away you know. IN such an Ireland with The National Government of Ireland Act as its written constitution making a reformed elected Crown as head of state such a constitution could be made as acceptable to the sensitivities of the Catholics of Kerry as to the Protestants of Derry. When it comes to your desired Republic you haven’t thought the matter through. Like all Republicans you are amnesic when it comes to Loyalist Ireland. TO help you with your thinking I suggest you read my trilogy on the British/ Irish Problem available at http://www.authorhouse.co.uk by typing my name into the search engine
Michael Gillespie Federal Unionist-Early Sinn Fein
Michael,
“You cannot fit loyalists into a Republic.”
and equally “you cannot fit Nationalists into the UK”.
Take your pick.
Square pegs and round holes either way.
It was Sammy Mc Nally
“This is an argument about the substance of the relation between Britain and France.”
While it is indubitable that such a relation exists what relevance has it to Ireland? For centuries the Crown has been at the centre of the murderous British/ Irish problem, has the Crown been at the centre of your spurious British/French problem? There has been an historic rivalry between the English and the French but the relationship has never been murderous as the British/Irish relationship has been. The murderous British/Irish relationship has been and is a problem the British/French relationship isn’t.
You write: -
You write “ Britain and France are clearly 2 branches of the one tree”
You could write that all European democracies are branches of the one tree with roots in ancient Greece but where does that lead to in Ireland with its historic murderous British/Irish problem?
The thesis of Federal Unionism-Early Sinn Fein is that the murderous British /Irish problem is constitutional and can be resolved rationally. There is no comparable British/French problem that has caused murder mutilation and mayhem to ordinary citizens as the British/Irish problem has. This calamitous problem can’t be written off by saying the problem is solved in the GFA and that the 26 county statelet is equal to the British nation. That spin was written by British politicians to be read out in Dublin Castle by the Queen to appease southern Republicans. Northern Ireland has been left out of the spin. Federal Unionism-Early Sinn Fein is old fashioned enough to hold that only a 32 county Irish Nation can be declared equal to Great Britain.
Federal Unionism/Early Sinn Fein contends that the British/ Irish problem that murdered Ronan Kerr can only be resolved in the Federal Kingdom of the Sovereign Nation of all Ireland and Great Britain or vice versa with a new written constitution for Ireland that can be made as acceptable to the sensitivities of the Catholics of Kerry as to the Protestants of Derry. I find the thinking in your comment muddled and confused. To help clarify you thinking I suggest you read my trilogy on the British Irish problem available at http://www.authorhouse.co.uk by typing my name into the search engine. Maybe that will help.
Michael Gillespie Federal Unionist-Early Sinn Fein.
It was Sammy Mc Nally
“You can’t fit nationalists into the U.K.”
Here in N. Ireland there is a sizeable nationalist community who are perfectly happy to live in the U.K. under the Crown and enjoy its benefits. You may say you can’t fit Sinn Fein into the U.K. but the hard facts have to be faced. Sinn Fein now sit happily at Stormont as crypto-unionists propping up a right wing unionist U.K. state while in the pay of the Crown’s Chancellor of the Exchequer. Martin Maguinness may say he isn’t loyal to the Crown and refuses to meet the Queen but he is loyal to her money with the Queen’s impression.
How ever in your confusion you fail to grasp the central tenet of Federal Unionism-Early Sinn Fein which is that this new concept rejects both the U.K. and the Republic. It is the central tenet that sectarian Tricolour Republicanism and sectarian U.K. unionism are both historic failures in Ireland causing death pain and suffering and division down the centuries to the present time. Federal Unionism-Early Sinn Fein maintains that both U.K. constitution and Republican constitution need a new constitutional replacement in a new Federal Kingdom Constitution which respects the sensitivities of Loyalists and Nationalists alike. I can’t make myself any more simple than that. I hope this clarifies the matter and dispels your confusion.
Michael Gillespie Federal Unionist-Early Sinn Fein
Michael,
“Here in N. Ireland there is a sizeable nationalist community who are perfectly happy to live in the U.K. under the Crown and enjoy its benefits. You may say you can’t fit Sinn Fein into the U.K. but the hard facts have to be faced.”.
..and there was a sizeable number of Unionists trapped on the other side of the border in the South.
Your solution is akin to to a judge ordering two warring neigbours to buy a stake in each other properties and share accomodation rather than settling their boundary dispute in the usual fashon – ie coming to agreement.
It was Sammy Mc Nally
What Unionists trapped on the other side of the border? These were suppressed and wiped in a 26 County statelet dominated by Republicans. Nationalists on the other hand in N. Ireland in the U.K. have increased and multiplied. I can’t wean you away from the two warring factions of Unionists and Republicans. IN a truly unified Ireland there would only be one property not two. You can’t get your head around that. In a boundary dispute you are talking about the Border no doubt. The imposed Government of Ireland put a sectarian border into place. Only a democratically agreed National Government of Ireland Act acceptable to all can remove the border. There is nothing I can do for you; you fail to get my message.
Michael Gillespie Federal Unionist-Early Sinn Fein
“These were suppressed and wiped in a 26 County statelet dominated by Republicans.”
Really? So there are no Protestants living in the South?
I’m sure you didnt mean to use the term ‘wiped out’. I presume you will now wish to withdraw that remark?
Creating articifical states to avoid dealing weith issues like Ulster or as you propose Ireland and Britian is simply a recipe for disaster.
The joint political soverignity of Ulster as per the GFA is the way forward.
It was Sammy Mc Nally
“Are there no Protestants in the South?”
The number of Protestants in the 26 counties has decreased dramatically since partition. The handful left aren’t active unionists with a unionist party so it is accurate to say that unionism was suppressed and wiped out in the 26 counties by Republicans For you unionism is synonymous with Protestantism. That is sectarianism. Are you O K with sectarianism? You seem to be.
So you are a devotee of the GFA and with that a sectarian border? The GFA does nothing to eradicate sectarianism and a sectarian border but institutionalises both. This was evident in the recent elections and the sectarian divisions of Ireland were painfully evident in the TV coverage of the Royal visit which gave the Royal Assent to the border and sectarian division.
What is an artificial state? There are those who see the 26 county statelet and the 6 county statelet as artificial with sectarianism at their rotten core, why don’t you?
Michael Gillespie Federal Unionist-Early Sinn Fein
Michael Gillespie,
I use the terms interchangably – bad practice I agree.
Unionism has largely died out as it seems silly (unless following your proposals) to wish for something unlikely to ever happen.
They were certainly not wiped out as you suggest.
Michael Gillespie- I would be more than happy if people were allowed to have the Queen as their Head of State in Northern Ireland after unification as long as the rest of Ireland including the rest of NI had the Irish President as theirs. I know this has no precedent in constitutional law but it is a unique situation which needs a unique solution. Perhaps akin to the dual sovereignty solution only with two heads of state, but not two governments.
Hedley Lamarr
I thank you for your comment but my real concern is with sectarianism and its associated violence and its eradication. Your solution would continue with a sectarian Ireland.
I don’t understand what you mean when you write:-
“To have the queen as head of state in N. Ireland after reunification”
If the Queen is head of state in N. Ireland there is no reunification but two heads of state in two jurisdictions with two constitutions one foreign to the other In such a constitutional set-up sectarianism will flourish as will the potential for violence.
You mention a dual sovereignty. You can’t have a dual sovereignty with a Republican President on the one hand and a monarch on the other. That would be a constitutional muddle with sectarianism untouched. Have you Arthur Griffith’s dual monarchy in mind? There was good sense in this idea but Griffiths didn’t think the matter through. If he had he would have found that a dual monarchy requires a Federal Kingdom. I have examined that proposition in depth and I firmly believe that with a Federal Kingdom of the Sovereign Nation OF Ireland and Great Britain or vice versa democratically arrived at in The National Government of Ireland Act giving Ireland one head of state, the Crown, one National flag, a redesign of the Tricolour, one National Anthem A Nation Once Again, and one Irish Identity and one government a stable Ireland will emerge in which sectarianism will wither away. An imposed Government of Ireland Act partitioned the country only the National Government of Ireland Act can unite it.
Michael Gillespie Federal Unionist-Early Sinn Fein.
It was Sammy Mc Nally
You didn’t answer my questions.
Michael Gillespie
Michael Gillespie- I agree that sectarianism has to be tackled. Any ideas should be welcomed as such.
A Federal Kingdom however wouldn’t work. The rest of Ireland enjoy their sovereignty even through recent poor administrations and they would be opposed to give it up in any form whether that be having a monarch as head of state or sharing sovereignty with a more largely populated country such as the UK.
British Rule doesn’t have a good track record in Ireland and the Irish people know this.
I haven’t read any books dedicated to the Protestant population decline in the South but I am aware that the role of the Catholic Church in the state was disastrous. Not just for Protestants though. See the abuse cases.
I am also aware that the numbers of Protestants at the foundation of the state was quite small and although it dropped it may be for a number of benign reasons.
Mixed-marriages always have a declining effect on numbers of a small religion base. I am aware of the rule that Catholics who were in mixed marriages had to have a Catholic ceremony and bring their children up in that way. This was appalling and possibly violates a person’s right to freedom of religion and right to family life. But that was Church again, not state.
As for my idea of joint sovereignty it has been mooted before only on different terms. Having two heads of state was seriously considered in the past.
My idea would be the mirror opposite to NI remaining within the UK but allowing people here to have the Irish President as head of state. Instead NI would become part of an all-Ireland state with people here being allowed to have the Queen as head of state.
Hedley Lamarr
You say a Federal Kingdom won’t work; how do you know if it hasn’t been tried? Republicanism has been tried for generations and the evidence is clear that it doesn’t work. Republicans have flogged the dead horse of an all Ireland Republic for over two hundred years, isn’t it time Republicans realized the horse is dead and bury the beast. To use another analogy. Suppose in a factory the management try a new idea and the idea doesn’t work the management will scrap the idea and try another and so on until an idea is found that will work. Republicans don’t operate rationally like that. They say – this idea of a united Ireland as a Republic hasn’t worked for generations but we’ll try it again, Lads, and put a bomb with it and that will make it work That is the crass stupidity of Republicans in Ireland. By the same token the U.K. idea hasn’t worked in Ireland but there are those who flog that dead horse as well.
A Federal Kingdom is a new idea for Ireland. That presupposes that open minds can be found in Ireland receptive to new ideas. Your mind is shut to anything other than a Republic and a partitioned sectarian Ireland.
You are mistaken if you think a Federal Kingdom is a return to British rule in Ireland. In a federal Kingdom with The Crown as head of state in Ireland, Ireland would be a Sovereign Independent nation like Australia and Canada that have the Crown as head of state but Australians are Australian Catholic and Protestant alike and Canadians are Canadian Catholic and Protestant alike and neither country is British and both countries rule themselves. As a point of interest Alex Salmond has stated categorically in a T V interview that he envisages an independent Scottish nation with the Crown as head of state like many other independent nations in the modern world with the Crown as head of state. Ireland should follow Scotland’s example. If Scotland can gain independence without anyone being murdered or the place being blown up so can Ireland. If you can open your mind and give a new idea a fair hearing you should read my full thinking on a Federal Kingdom at http://www.authorhouse.co.uk by typing my name into search.
Michael Gillespie Federal Unionist- Early Sinn Fein.
Michael Gillespie
“What is an artificial state? There are those who see the 26 county statelet and the 6 county statelet as artificial with sectarianism at their rotten core, why don’t you?”
(Is this the question you are referring to?)
Yes, that’s colonialism for you – “sectarianism at their rotten core” – well I think we are moving past that and the Plain People of Ireland have given their verdict for both governments to politically control Ulster as set out in the GFA.
“If Scotland can gain independence without anyone being murdered or the place being blown up so can Ireland”
It is arguably the Scottish crown anyway so they have a different view on much matters – the crown in Ireland is synonymous with domination – we have an excellent head of state – highly educated, highly intelligent and elected by the people – the British on the other hand have an antiquated royal system and you get the luck of the draw – not a bad head of state – but obviously very poor by comparison to the Irish president.
To employ your Factory analogy why would we ditch a modern piece of machinery which serves us well for an old machine that we happended to inherit when we moved into the building?
It was Sammy Mc Nally.
“ I think we are moving past that and the plain people of Ireland have given their verdicts for both governments to politically control Ulster as set out in the GFA.”
You conveniently ignore the sectarian nature of the political control of the Assembly at Stormont. We haven’t moved past sectarianism. Every election here has been a sectarian headcount since 1921. That holds for the recent election despite the hype about bread and butter issues. You seem O.K. with sectarianism You should free yourself from the sectarianism of the GFA and open your mind to non-sectarian Federal Unionism- Early Sinn Fein and a free thinking Federal Kingdom.
“It is arguably a Scottish Crown anyway”
Where did you get that from! The Crown is constituted British. For The Crown to be head of state in Scotland it would need to be constituted in The Scotland Constitution Act. For the Crown to be head of state in Ireland it would need to be constituted in The National Government of Ireland Act.
“The Crown in Ireland synonymous with domination”
You’re living in the past. Loyalists, constitutional nationalists, the plain people of Ireland who welcomed the Crown to Ireland and watched the Royal Wedding on R T E, the millions of Irish who live happily in the English realm and the people of Australia and Canada don’t see the Crown in your light. You belong to a handful of fanatics brainwashed with Republicanism who assault the Gardai and release black balloons. You should free yourself from the mental shackles of Republicanism and adopt a free thinking Federal Unionism- Early Sinn Fein and a liberated Federal Kingdom.
“We have an excellent head of state.”
Who are the “we”? Loyalists or Republicans?
“Why ditch a modern piece of machinery which serves us well for an old machine that the happened to inherit when we moved into the building.”
If the analogy is read intelligently it will de clear that the old machine is the dead horse of an all Ireland Republic and the new machine is a Federal Kingdom.
Michael Gillespie Federal Unionist- Early Sinn Fein
Mickey, may I call you Mickey, we seem to be getting on so well.
I will get on to the other bits later “It is arguably a Scottish Crown anyway” “Where did you get that from!”
That would be from history – 1603 I believe.
http://www.britroyals.com/scots.asp?id=james1
would it then not actually be an Irish Crown?
http://www.britroyals.com/scots.asp?id=alpin
with the North Coast being the oldest part of HM realm.
Drumlins Rock,
re. Dalriada
Perhaps this is actually what Mary Mac was referring to when she thus spake at Dublin Castle about the coloniser and the colonised .
Drumlins Rock
“ Does that not actually make the Crown Irish?
In The National Government of Ireland Act the Crown would be known as the Crown Irish when on Irish territory and as the British Crown when on British territory.
To have the Crown known as the Irish Crown would require a throne in Ireland. That doesn’t exist so the only feasible way in which the Crown can be known in Ireland is the Crown Irish.
The Crown in relation to Ireland is examined in full at http://www.authorhouse.co.uk and can be found by typing my name into search.
Michael Gillespie Federal Unionist-Early Sinn Fein
Michael,
I’m not suggesting that support is a reliable indicator of the validity of an idea – but does anybody else share your views?
What steps are you taking to gain political support? Standing in elections?
Quick review of the past and pesent Britsh royal and constitutional position.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rNu8XDBSn10&feature=player_embedded#at=255
It was Sammy Mc Nally.
I thank you for your reply. To answer your queries I’m in retirement and I now devote my time to writing. My writing interest is the British Irish problem and its solution. I’m in the happy position of being financially independent so I don’t write to make a living but out of that which interests me and which pleases me.
I have looked at your video and it tells me nothing that I don’t already know. It describes the world as it is. While I live in the world as it is in my writing I explore a world as it ought to be. One of my trilogy of novels on the British/Irish problem has the title –The Way Ireland Ought To Be—.That is the metier of my writing While I live in an Ireland as it is, in my writing I explore an Ireland as it ought to be. It is an Ireland that shouldn’t just have a bit of it associated with the Crown but all of it. I published my version of the National Government of Ireland Act in a Republican magazine on the Internet call The Blanket. A reader wrote— Is Michael Saying that we republicans have been wrong for all these generations — That is precisely what I’m saying.
You want to know if anyone else shares my view. My friends who have read my writing have done so with interest. Professor Walker Professor of Politics at Queens has read my writings with enthusiasm and encourages me to continue. I put my ideas to Sir Reg Empey and he received them with interest. I put my ideas to Lady Sylvia Hermon M P for N Down and she was wildly enthusiastic and said she would have my ideas discussed with her friends I put my ideas to Mark Durkan but got a luke- warm reception. The difficulty there is the SDLP have abandoned Constitutional Nationalism and are looking over their shoulders at the republicanism of Sinn Fein.
I’m perfectly aware that my view of Irish history is a minority one but I’m not alone in that. Kevin Meyers who was instrumental in having Islandbridge rescued from dereliction brought on by Republicans and having it restored, is a journalist with a background in history. His view is that 1798 was a poison introduced into Ireland and I agree. He also holds that 1916 was a divisive disaster. I also agree with that as well and I have a letter with the Belfast Telegraph stating that the violence of 1916 and the ensuing brutality on both sides in the so called war of independence are morally indefensible. The history I treat with respect is Roy Foster’s revisionism but that also has a minority support. It doesn’t follow that a minority point of view shouldn’t be taken on board and listened to.
You want to know if I intend to go political. That is not my intention. I’m a writer with new different ideas about Ireland but I’ve no intention of going to the hustings with myopic brain washed politicians flogging the dead horses of Tricolour Republicanism and Union Jack Unionism in a tribal frame of mind. Of course Federal Unionism- Early Sinn Fein deserves a new party on the ground but that is a chicken and the egg conundrum. As I see it the ideas come first and maybe a party will follow.
Shaw wrote —Some see the world as it is and ask why I dream of a world that isn’t and ask why not—-. Out of asking why not of a non sectarian united Ireland that isn’t in a federal Kingdom that isn’t promoted by free thinking Federal Unionism-Early Sinn Fein that isn’t maybe in some future time a new Ireland will emerge. Who knows? Michael Gillespie Federal Unionism- Early Sinn Fein
Michael Gillespie
“It was known that in the border areas of Tyrone and Fermanagh attempts were made by the IRA to ethnically cleanse these areas of Loyalists.”
Nonsense.
Also your Federal Ireland Idea is very condecending to the population of this Island. The Idea that an Irish person is not good enough to be head of state as a birthright is repulsive.
JR
Nonsense! You should ask the loyalist people in these areas and see what they have to say.
“Your idea that an Irish person isn’t good enough to be head of state by birth right is repulsive”
These are your words not mine. The problem is that the Irish people can’t agree over a head of state and have murdered one another for generations over it. That is truly repulsive. The head of state for that reason needs new ideas. Your mind is shut to anything new.
Michael Gillespie Federal Unionist-Early Sinn Fein
Michael Gillespie
The problem is that the Irish people can’t agree over a head of state and have murdered one another for generations over it.
When was this ? There was me thinking and most other Irish people that those rebellions were about removing the crown from Ireland, having privledge as a birthright is repulsive especially forcing others less well off to pay for it. Your idea for a new Ireland would in all likelyhood appeal to the minority population in Ireland ie Unionist’s and Loyalists but will never be accepted by Irish people.
Nonsense! You should ask the loyalist people in these areas and see what they have to say????
I am sure that if I drove about fermanagh and asked every Unionist arround I would eventually find somone who thought there had been an attempt at ethnic clensing there. I would probably get the same response from the odd Nationalist in West Belfast, Cork orDonegall. It dosent mean they are correct.
Using that term puts the suffering of the loyalists in Fermanagh and Tyrone on a par with that of the Polish Jews during WW2 or the Muslims in srebrenica. It also puts the crimes of Repubilcans on a par with those of the Nazi’s. Do you honestly believe that ther was an attempt to kill the 60,000 protestants in Fermanagh and Tyrone?
Michael Gillespie,
I tend to agree with tapacall’s assessment that “Your idea for a new Ireland would in all likelyhood appeal to the minority population in Ireland ie Unionist’s and Loyalists but will never be accepted by Irish people.”
However, I see a small glimmer of hope for your idea in the following scenario.
It is year 2016.
Ireland unable to pay its debts threatens to not repay the German and French banks that the Irish banks borrowed from. The EU calls Ireland’s bluff and Ireland defaults and is oxtered oot (expelled) from the EU and the Euro.
Amercian multnationals declare they will be moving across the border to Ulster where the same corpo tax rate applies but is in the EU. Unemployment in Ireland reaches 30% and inflation reaches 50% as the re-launched punt bombs.
Britian now swamped by thousands of (non EU )Irish emigrants theatens to stop the flow of emigrants unless Ireland returns to the British fold (ie under the British crown) . A short civil war goes the way of the FG led government who defeat the republican rump in the hills of Donegal and Gerry Adams is executed in Dublin castle.
FG, accept Britiain’s terms and the queen opens the festivities to commemorate the 1916 centenary.
…the Irish army moves into West Belfast to put down a serious outbreak of rioting and 13 Nationalsits are shot dead and martial law is declared.
Tacapall
“ appeal to the minority population in Ireland i.e. unionists and loyalists but will never appeal to the Irish People”
For a Federal Unionist-Early Sinn Fein the whole population of Ireland are Irish. You have a sectarian mentality about the Irish and non-Irish. It is such a mentality that keeps a border in place. Like all Conservatives you are not open to new ideas and like the Conservative Ian Paisley you should have written –Never—Never—Never.
“ those rebellions were about removing the Crown from Ireland”
But these rebellions didn’t. Like yourself a lot of people in Ireland are still flogging the dead horse of republican rebellions that only divided the people along sectarian lines. The 98 rebellion which was tainted with sectarianism only succeeded in putting the Act of Union into Ireland and didn’t remove the Crown. The 1916 Catholic rebellion put a sectarian border into Ireland and the Crown is still there.
Michael Gillespie Federal Unionism-Early Sinn Fein
It was Sammy mc Nally
Sarcasm is the basest form of wit and the lowest form of humour Michael Gillespie
J R
At least you admit there was Loyalist suffering in Tyrone and Fermanagh.
Michael Gillespie
Suffering, Yes. Sporadic sectarian murder, yes. Ethnic clensing No.
“For a Federal Unionist-Early Sinn Fein the whole population of Ireland are Irish. You have a sectarian mentality about the Irish and non-Irish. It is such a mentality that keeps a border in place. Like all Conservatives you are not open to new ideas and like the Conservative Ian Paisley you should have written –Never—Never—Never”.
Are you serious – You dont even know me ! I dont give a fk who runs the country as long as EVERYONE is treated equal, no fkrs born with privledge that I have to pay money to who looks down on me as if Im nothing, equally I dont want to live under some type of society where people can go missing and turn up years layer in a shollow grave. It is you who is backward and shakespearean, I dont believe there is a border in Ireland just that I live in an area where there’s nothing but carpetbeggars running the services for someone else.
JR
What’s the difference between Sectarian murder and ethnic cleansing? Who caused the suffering and the murder?
Tacapall
Keep your hair on. I can only go by what you write. I don’t care who runs the country either as long as is not sectarian. I don’t want a sectarian assembly and sectarian gunmen and bombers on the streets. How do you get rid of them? With new ideas.
Michael Gillespie
Michael Gillespie,
re. “Sarcasm is the basest form of wit and the lowest form of humour ”
A little flight of fancy there- perhaps, but remember many/most economists believe Ireland is effectively bankrupt and the country most likely to suffer any fallout from that (after Ireland of course) is the UK.
A bankrupt Ireland may no longer be in the EU/Euro and will desperately be in need of friends…
.
It was Sammy Mc Nally
Your economic flight of fancy is well over the top. A Federal Kingdom is a more hopeful and realistic outcome than your economic doomsday scenario.
Michael Gillespie Federal Unionist-Early Sinn Fein
Michael Gillespie,
Many economists believe Ireland is bankrupt there is no way we can repay our debts – to turn the old adage on its head – Ireland’s difficulty is Britian’s opportunity.
Ireland has arguably ceded soverignity to the EU without a whimper and if we are out of the EU and Britain is wiling to help who is to say what we would sign up for?
This would have been an impossible scenario even 2 years ago but if the country faces economic meltdown – then all bets, historic and otherwise are off.
It was Sammy Mc Nally.
Charlie Haughey has said that if he were to ask ten economists for an answer to an economic problem he would get ten different contradictory answers. As someone with a formal background in economics strangely enough I agree with Charlie.
As I see it the Irish are a resilient people who have survived worse in the catastrophe of the famine and will survive the current economic catastrophe but it will take long term austerity to do so.
To return to the British/Irish problem Churchill had this to say: -
“But as the deluge subsides and the waters fall short we see the dreary steeples of Fermanagh and Tyrone emerging once again. The integrity of their quarrel is one of the few institutions that have been unaltered in the cataclysm that has swept the world.”
An economic deluge has currently swept the world but when it subsides and falls short the dreary steeples of Fermanagh and Tyrone will emerge once again with the integrity of their quarrel unaltered. It’s the thesis of Federal Unionism-Early Sinn Fein that the quarrel is constitutional not economic or social and can only be settled with constitutional reform in a manner outlined in Slugger and set out in full at http://www.authorhouse.co.uk by typing my name into search
Michael Gillespie Federal Unionist-Early Sinn Fein