Slugger O'Toole

Conversation, politics and stray insights

Sinn Féin: “There is not a shred of evidence linking republicans to the Northern Bank robbery…”

Tue 14 December 2010, 3:10pm

While Taoiseach Brian Cowen refused to answer any questions on the issue, former Taoiseach Bertie Ahern, Justice Minister, Dermot Ahern and Health Minister Mary Harney have all re-stated the Irish government’s 2005 assessment that the Sinn Féin leadership of Gerry Adams and Martin McGuinness had prior knowledge of the Northern Bank robbery.

And a report in The Irish News today notes that

Sinn Féin’s view that there is “not a shred of evidence” to link the IRA to the robbery of the Northern Bank is not supported by a series of high-profile court cases.

Indeed.  And not just court cases, but actual criminal convictions as a result of Operation Phoenix.

Additionally, Mary-Alice Clancy emails to point out that she revealed in her book, Peace Without Consensus [P 147], that

After the collapse of the proximity talks, British officials pursued a ‘bilateral approach’ wherein Sinn Féin and the British government would move the political process forward without the DUP or the Irish government.  This approach, however, came to an abrupt end with the robbery of £26.5million from the Northern Bank in Belfast. For many Irish and British officials, it was apparent from the beginning that the operation was most likely the IRA’s work.  According to a senior Irish official, in the three months leading up to the robbery, the gardaí had some of the individuals who are alleged to have been involved in the subsequent money laundering of the Northern Bank notes under surveillance.  During this period, the guards are alleged to have witnessed meetings between the robbers, a southern businessman who allegedly laundered the money for the IRA and the republican leadership.  As a senior Irish official argues, after the bank robbery the gardaí realised that these meetings related to the Northern Bank. [added emphasis]

An Irish Independent report is more explicit.

And some of those allegations have also turned into criminal convictions.

Pleading leniency, defence counsel Ciaran O’Loughlin SC told the judge his client had been used by the IRA and was far removed from the original offence in Belfast.

And, for the sceptical, here’s an interesting snippet included in the Wikileaked US Embassy cables [dated 01 June 2005]

[Then-Irish Foreign Minister Dermot] Ahern also touched on the balance the GOI tries to strike in talking about and to Sinn Fein. He said PSNI and others told the GOI that its tough line on Sinn Fein since December had been helpful but no longer was, and they should “lighten up.” [added emphasis]

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Comments (80)

  1. Carrickmoreman (profile) says:

    I think SF is challenging the Republic to come out with their evidence assuming they will not, to protect sources, or to show their is no ‘real” evidence. A dangerous game indeed, but I’m making a guess that the alleged evidence doesn’t include Adams or McGuinness taking part in any meeting(s), so it would not affect any voting .

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  2. andnowwhat (profile) black spot says:

    Challenging Adams and Mc Guiness about a connection to a massive bank robberry to blacken them and their partry in this political and economic situation?

    Honestly, I’m laughing my thingys off here. That would make them heroes, not villains.

    May as well accuse them of kicking Jamie Diamon in the nuts to blacken their names.

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  3. Alias (profile) says:

    [Then-Irish Foreign Minister Dermot] Ahern also touched on the balance the GOI tries to strike in talking about and to Sinn Fein. He said PSNI and others told the GOI that its tough line on Sinn Fein since December had been helpful but no longer was, and they should “lighten up.”

    Well, at least we know who is directing Irish government policy: Her Majesty’s security services.

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  4. PaddyReilly (profile) says:

    In the current atmosphere, stealing from a bank is rather like taking a milk bottle from the doorstep of one of the Great Train Robbers. Bank robbery henceforth will signify robbery by banks, not of banks.

    “The law locks up both man and woman
    Who steals the goose from off the common
    But lets the greater felon loose
    Who steals the common from the goose.”

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  5. Dread Cthulhu (profile) says:

    Mayhap the more accurate description would be “no actionable evidence.”

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  6. Cynic2 (profile) says:

    Perhaps the Irish people will vote in SF. On the other hand they may remember Gerry McCabe and all the other dead and decide that they don’t want the mafia in Government.

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  7. Cynic2 (profile) says:

    “at least we know who is directing Irish government policy:”

    …. and just why is PSNI playing a role in politics by advising a Foreign State on how to approach a UK political party??? Is this what we pay our police for?

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  8. Alias (profile) says:

    The Shinner apologists will try to portray it as a victimless crime, conveniently ignoring the kidnapping of ordinary workers, terrorising their families, and threatening them with death it they didn’t cooperate – and the fact that consumers make good the losses through increased banking charges and ordinary taxpayers pay taxes to investigate the crime. Still, 28m among the Shinner top brass is a nice pension top-up. Gerry and Marty’s share would be at least 2m each added to the vast wealth they have already accrued from being leading godfathers in organised crime and, of course, their state pensions from Her Majesty. But then I’m sure that Gerry donated his share to the Sisters of Mercy…

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  9. Alias (profile) says:

    Cynic2, Irish government policy is a matter for the Irish government, not for Her Majesty’s Chief Constable in NI. It is improper for him to offer any direction whatsoever, never mind dictates to “lighten up.”

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  10. The Word (profile) black spot says:

    Actually it’s not bad advice to “lighten up” when dealing with Sinn Fein. They take themselves way too seriously, and for all their efforts and for all their connections to “sympathetic professionals” they are still “B” division players.

    Some times we have a tendency to “big” them up in line with their own pretensions rather than by any objective measures.

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  11. redhugh78 (profile) says:

    ‘most likely’, ‘alleged to have been involved’, ‘alleged to have witnessed’ , ‘allegedly laundered’ – all taken from Clancy’s quote. I think that says it all really, no actual evidence.
    I

    Also the link to the ‘criminal convictions’, the money involved has never been conclusively proven to be from the robbery of the Northern Bank, so more innuendo trotted out as fact when it’s anything but..’ The bigger the lie…..

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  12. pippakin (profile) says:

    Its not about proof or evidence it’s about how much mud sticks and SF have been too close to the swamps for a very long time.

    The election campaigns have started early

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  13. redhugh78 (profile) says:

    pippakin,

    ‘The election campaigns have started early’

    Couldn’t agree more and Slugger as usual steps up to the plate to be the chief mud slinger, a bit like the wikileak, nothing new there either is there?

    I think most people will see the recent ‘story’ re the northern bank as being exactly that, electioneering and trying to stymie the growth of SF.

    However, there’s no such thing as bad publicity as I’m sure will be proved when the votes are counted.

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  14. Cynic2 (profile) says:

    “the money involved has never been conclusively proven to be from the robbery of the Northern Bank”

    …. absolutely right. I am told that almost everyone in Cork has a wheelie bin full of Northern Bank fivers delivered every week as part of the Councils recycling scheme

    PS your desperation is showing

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  15. pippakin (profile) says:

    Redhugh78

    I don’t think Slugger can be blamed for blogging the news, that’s what they do, and I agree with you some will ignore the slurs, especially those about the Northern Bank. But, FF are not just fighting this election they are almost certainly fighting to remain a force in Irish politics. This disaster could damage them for at least the next two elections and arguably those who in the past who were not SF were FF…

    I think there will be more ‘revelations’ .

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  16. granni trixie (profile) says:

    For the record, stealing from a bank is wrong,whomever is responsihble. To read the above you would think that honesty is irrelevent.

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  17. Pete Baker (profile) says:

    pip

    Fianna Fáil aren’t responsible for this being in the news.

    It was the US Embassy cables Wikileaks released.

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  18. Carrickmoreman (profile) says:

    “the guards are alleged to have witnessed meetings between the robbers…”

    Has anyone been convicted of being a “robber” of the Northern Bank?

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  19. pippakin (profile) says:

    Pete Baker

    Yes, I know but don’t tell me its not assisting FF or that the coy silence of Brian is not more than made up for by the more predictable and characteristic crowing of Bertie and others in FF.

    I have wondered about some of the wikileaks or, perhaps I should say I’m suspicious.

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  20. Brian (profile) says:

    There is no evidence linking the robbery to Gerry and Marty.

    There were undoubtedly former Provo’s involved in the heist but I doubt Gerry or the other top SF dogs had anything to do with it.

    Probably just some Provos pulling one more operation off while they were still organized, the political climate was chaotic and could get away with it.

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  21. Brian (profile) says:

    *After all, Freedom Fighting isn’t Free. These freedom fighters needed a payday

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  22. another (profile) says:

    The claim that Provo INC did 200m in Lehmans:

    http://url.ie/8h7u

    And the strange case of what happened to that Borris-in-Ossory counterfeiting operation:

    http://url.ie/8h7x

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  23. another (profile) says:

    And the Europol press release into that strange counterfeiting operation:

    http://url.ie/8h81

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  24. The Raven (profile) says:

    “However, there’s no such thing as bad publicity as I’m sure will be proved when the votes are counted.”

    …unless, of course, anyone actually sits down and examines the major successes of the Sinn Fein ministerial portfolios over the past few years…but that’s very off topic.

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  25. Seamus Clarke (profile) says:

    The irony of the whole thing is that six years on from a bank being robbed in the centre of Belfast a few days before Christmas the only person to be found guilty of any charges relating to the incident is Ted Cunningham, a Cork man who described himself as more of a “Fianna Fáil Republican”.

    Of course RTE wouldn’t have mentioned that. They went for the more subtle approach of saying “Gerry Adams is said to have known about the plans to rob the Northern Bank. The Northern Bank was robbed by the IRA in 2004…”. Perhaps RTE should be made aware that despite a cross border police operation and numerous raids on the houses of Republicans, not one member of the IRA has been found guilty of anything regarding the robbery. Did someone mention an election’s coming up?

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  26. Alias (profile) says:

    Did someone mention protected species?

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  27. The Word (profile) black spot says:

    Seamus

    Are you suggesting the RTE should believe Mr Adams?

    Sinn Fein needs to get real about the lies.

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  28. joeCanuck (profile) says:

    There are worse crimes than this which have apparently been stymied by government pragmatism (spit). Take young Paul Quinn, one of the more vicious crimes of our time, beaten to death by those who knew him, on a par with the Shankill butchers or worse. Does anyone here believe for a minute that the police on both sides of the border don’t know at least some of the brutal murderers and he who “sanctioned” the murder?

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  29. [...] This post was mentioned on Twitter by Northern Ireland, Slugger O'Toole. Slugger O'Toole said: Latest: Sinn Féin: "There is not a shred of evidence linking republicans to the Northern Bank robbery…" http://bit.ly/gq8SmP [...]

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  30. The Word (profile) black spot says:

    Joe

    ..and the denial of it and the reference to criminal smuggling gangs almost before it hit the news.

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  31. Seamus Clarke (profile) says:

    The Word,

    I’m suggesting RTE do their jobs. Claiming the IRA robbed a bank in their headlines is nothing short of a joke. They wouldn’t have said “Arrogant French President Nicolas Sarkozy was in Brussels today…” simply because someone in a WikiLeaks cable implied he was arrogant, so why make it that the IRA robbed the Northern Bank simply because Bertie said it after meeting Hugh Orde, the same Hugh Orde who’s PSNI were unable to charge one person in connection with the stealing of £26.5 from a bank in the centre of Belfast.

    The same Hugh Orde who believed it was the IRA because the IRA controlled the area in which the family of the bank worker were heldd hostage. I don’t know what’s more funny, the PSNI’s delusional logic or the Chief Constable of the PSNI admitting the IRA were more of an authority in areas in the north than his own police service.

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  32. Pete Baker (profile) says:

    Joe and The Word

    Not to mention the charming Northern Ireland Regional Development Minister, and Paul Quinn’s MP, informing Newsnight that he had “spoken to the IRA in the area” and they had told him that they knew nothing about it.

    And that that was good enough for him…

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  33. joeCanuck (profile) says:

    Yes, Pete. I was tempted to mention that but thought I would leave it out so as not to detract from the horror of the crime itself. As a Minister of the Crown he should have been questioned about his activity.

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  34. The Word (profile) black spot says:

    Seamus

    “delusional logic” – LOL.

    Why all the dishonesty? I thought that truth was the first casualty of war, not peace.

    Republicans talk of an election coming up in regard to anything said about them while at the same time gearing up the propaganda machine just to prove to us that they are, what, going to lie their way into the affections of a people who are in pain at the moment.

    I don’t think that people are going to let that happen.

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  35. Fionn (profile) black spot says:

    The first money showed up at a PSNI gym

    The person caught burning notes in Cork was English with family serving in the PSNI.

    The PSNI released no detail to help the public to help catch the robbers apart from a grainy still of a van.

    Just before the robbery HMG had done a side deal with SF

    Other threads on here at the moment are discussing the IRA’s multi-billion pound empire, why risk so much for loose change

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  36. joeCanuck (profile) says:

    Fionn,

    I have no idea who did that robbery and I have an open mind on it.
    But the “why risk so much..” in your final sentence makes no sense in terms of what the PIRA did. Why risk so much in blowing up/burning to death the people at La Mon or by blowing children and old folks to bits at the Cenotaph? How many new supporters did either of those events gain and how closer did they bring a U.I.?

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  37. Pete Baker (profile) says:

    Seamus

    Ted Cunningham is not “the only person to be found guilty of any charges relating to the incident”.

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  38. pippakin (profile) says:

    Fion

    Greed. And it would not be the first time a republican had an English accent or had been in the services.

    One of the disappeared was formally identified today. The murderers of Paul Quinn and Robert McCartney have never been found.

    No one has to look far to find reasons not to vote for SF. The arrogance with which they treat the northern electorate must not be allowed to spread south.

    Both Paul Quinn and Robert McCartney were murdered by more than one person, both crimes were linked to PIRA and both crimes had members of SF (one in the toilet) and one talking through his rear end, not only taking their positions for granted but treating their communities with contempt.

    Someone should tell SF they job is to serve the people not bleed them dry we have FF for that.

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  39. joeCanuck (profile) says:

    ..we have FF for that…

    LOL, pippakinn.

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  40. Mr E Mann (profile) says:

    This is getting boring, so here’s a little provocation. I think it is much more likely than not that, if GA was in PIRA, he left at an early date in his political career (say, not long after the hunger strikes). Why would an underground guerilla organization allow someone so visible and vulnerable to arrest, interrogation, and blackmail to know anything about its underground activities?

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  41. joeCanuck (profile) says:

    Mr. Mann,

    Why don’t you ask the Northern Ireland Regional Development Minister that question? He seems to have the contacts for that.

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  42. Mark (profile) says:

    Mr E Mann ,

    I second that . Adam’s talent is more suited to ground level . Anyway , wasn’t he tortured and beaten to a pulp a number of times in the early 70′s ? Couldn’t break him then and won’t now .

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  43. Mark (profile) says:

    JoeC ,

    Joe canada , I was agreeing with Mr E Mann . Btw did you here about the boat trip ?

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  44. joeCanuck (profile) says:

    No, Mark. What boat trip?

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  45. Mark (profile) says:

    Joec ,

    The United Ireland one , we can pick you up on the way .

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  46. joeCanuck (profile) says:

    Hehe, Mark. i’m not against a U.I. at all, provided that seperate majorities in the North and the South agree at the same time. I don’t have a vote and I’m too old for the journey. I’ll be dead before that particular boat reaches harbour.

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  47. Mark (profile) says:

    So are you saying the south has equal bragging rights in any decision taken about a united ireland ?

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  48. joeCanuck (profile) says:

    Mark,

    Of course. Don’t you think that the South has to agree before accepting such an economic burden?

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  49. Mr E Mann (profile) says:

    >Why don’t you ask the Northern Ireland Regional
    >Development Minister that question? He seems to have the >contacts for that.

    Not really comparable. Murphy may have been a low ranking commander in the IRA, with knowledge of some operations, at the same time he was a local SF councilor. Undoubtedly, if this is not true of him, it is true of many others. I think we are all assuming, though, that if GA was in PIRA after, say, the mid 1980s, he was on the Army Council or otherwise a very high ranking official. It would be very unwise for PIRA to let SF’s best known figure, someone who appeared in public regularly and was easily arrested, have widespread knowledge of its operations.

    Incidentally, I think general experience is that everyone breaks under professionally-conducted torture, although they often throw in a lot of BS to pass the time when they run out of truth. Khalid Sheikh Muhammad and John McCain are both pretty hardened cases, and they both talked. I’m betting GA would too.

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  50. The Word (profile) black spot says:

    Mr E Mann

    “I think it is much more likely than not that, if GA was in PIRA, he left at an early date in his political career (say, not long after the hunger strikes). Why would an underground guerilla organization allow someone so visible and vulnerable to arrest, interrogation, and blackmail to know anything about its underground activities?”

    It’s amazing how a question raised in one thread is suddenly clarified on another. Clearly the machine is in operation. Nervous, it seems too.

    I think the reason that Gerry Adams called IRA actions “wrong” in the late 1980s and early 1990s was because he was nervous too. On another thread it was suggested that “sympathetic professionals” helped with Sinn Fein negotiating and politics. I would certainly say that I would be nervous if I was Adams in those circumstances.

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  51. percy (profile) black spot says:

    Does anyone actually believe SF has any control whatsoever over what former PIRA members have or have not done, or are doing or not doing, or either what they will or will not do.
    the allegations in the thread really are a non-story, only of interest to those who wish to besmirch SF.

    Keep your dirty fantasies to yourselves..

    SF have just won a bye-election in Donegal,
    that is a news story.

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  52. pippakin (profile) says:

    “Keep your dirty fantasies to yourselves”

    They are not just dirty, they are disgusting and depraved and they are not fantasies.

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  53. Neil (profile) says:

    Alias,

    The Shinner apologists will try to portray it as a victimless crime, conveniently ignoring the kidnapping of ordinary workers, terrorising their families, and threatening them with death it they didn’t cooperate

    Presumably you feel that the police then arresting the victim and having him prosecuted will also have terrorised him? Certainly I’m happy to describe the gent in question as a victim, as I don’t assume that he was guilty of organising the raid. Unlike the PSNI, who after he was terrorised by these robbers decide to terrorise him further by arresting him and failing to have him prosecuted. One would almost think the cops had a reason to force an ill advised prosecution of an innocent man.

    Why would the PSNI (who also happened to have a large stash of Northern Bank notes buried behind a wall in their golf club) follow that course of action I wonder?

    No point in mentioning that inconvenient fact though eh? Why would the cops have the money? Who could the cops blame it on if they did carry out the raid? No-one spring to mind? You seem to like your conspiracy theories, perhaps you’ll enjoy that one. Certainly I’ve provided as much proof as anyone attacking the shinners have done, which is to say absolutely nothing other than innuendo. Ya know the same stuff you like to use to hang the shinners for this robbery, despite the fact that the accusors also happen to be the only people caught with verifiable Northern Bank robbery money: the cops.

    and the fact that consumers make good the losses through increased banking charges and ordinary taxpayers pay taxes to investigate the crime.

    Nah, you’re mistaken. I’m a Northern Bank customer and their exorbitant charges weren’t further raised after the robbery. You see, as they were profitable, they simply continued to charge the same as before, and would have anticipated gradually rebuilding their fortunes to their prior level. But certainly my statememt contains no “bank robbery” levy. One assumes banks have insurance though, so no doubt the Northern didn’t get their fingers burned too badly and if they did, fuck ‘em.

    It’s good also to see the likes of Pip (the number one anti Shinner from over the border) and others get to work on the old Robert McCartney & Paul Quinn stories again, it’s been too long. Though as no one has been succesfully convicted it’s just more pissing in the wind, as per. It’s heartwarming to see good folks using the misery of bereaved families to help their hobby horse along.

    No doubt individual IRA members were involved in both cases, but as the IMC noted (usually their word’s good enough for every involved government, and good enough for certain individuals as long as they are negative about the IRA – but not good enough for the anti shinner brigade when they don’t say what said people want to hear) the leadership were not involved in these individual disputes.

    They were carried out by individuals, who unsurprisingly, used their IRA skills to attempt to remove forensic evidence. Still, probably Adams’ fault, just as it’s Adams’ fault that his brother is an alleged paedophile, as it’s Adams’ fault that the cops tried to use a victim as an informer, and it’s Adams’ fault about all that damned snow. Pish, pish and more pish.

    Finally, it’s genuinely funny that the usual anti Sinn Fein trolls can’t figure out a reason why politicians from a rival political party might suggest that SF are responsible for, well, everything. In fact the only strange thing, given the politicians in the south’s visceral hatred of SF, is that if they had evidence of any kind they’d sit on it, instead of using it to hurt the shinners. More bollocks from the usual quarters. If Bertie, Brian etc. had a shred of evidence they’d use it to kill SF off in the south – their number one priority after lining certain pockets.

    Thankfully the voters of the south (apart from Pippakin obviously) seem to realise their politicians are a pack of liars, and are now looking at voting SF in numbers. Keep whining folks, I look forward to hearing much more of it post election.

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  54. Ah, any sign of the other 50 comments anywhere?

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  55. pippakin (profile) says:

    Neil

    You seem unable to resist dragging me into your little flights of fancy.

    I’m actually not that concerned about the bank robbery. Oh I wouldn’t be surprised to find it was IRA, any more than I’m surprised at the attempted smear job on the police. Sure why not plant the loot at Scotland Yard.

    No, I’m afraid In the current circumstances the robbery wouldn’t prevent me voting for someone who imo was at least robbing the right ‘people’.

    What will have an effect on me and others is the possibility of electing yet more liars. Add that to the violence SF have never hesitated to excuse or not see at all and it amounts to serious doubts. I like many others am completely underwhelmed by worn out republican rhetoric.

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  56. Mick Fealty (profile) says:

    Scroll down the bottom Mick for ‘older comments’… (this arrangement is under review btw)

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  57. Reader (profile) says:

    Neil: Why would the PSNI (who also happened to have a large stash of Northern Bank notes buried behind a wall in their golf club) follow that course of action I wonder?
    Why not join the club yourself? You don’t need to be in the police.
    http://www.newforge.com/BecomeAMember.aspx
    You could search the toilets and see if there are any more stashes. Or plant another one.

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  58. granni trixie (profile) says:

    I’m sure its not a news story either,but there seems to be a morality in Sluggger-World whereby robbing a bank isnt wrong! I know I am repeating this view but want to point up this really is something worth resisting.
    Seems to me a kind of relativism is going on – the cops do this,the bank men have done that ergo robbin’ by the IRA is OK. I rarely think of people as stupid but its on my mind now.

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  59. Reader (profile) says:

    alias: Cynic2, Irish government policy is a matter for the Irish government, not for Her Majesty’s Chief Constable in NI. It is improper for him to offer any direction whatsoever, never mind dictates to “lighten up.”
    I thought that one of the Republican triumphs during the negotiation of the GFA was that there would be ongoing contact between the Irish Government and the PSNI. Maybe it was Sammy McNally that said it? But did they assume that the PSNI would be silent throughout the meetings?

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  60. pippakin (profile) says:

    Granni Trixie

    Thanks to the combined greed, duplicity and stupidity of the banks and the Irish government the Irish people are facing the worst situation the country has been in since independence. All I say is that some people including me may not be disposed to take offence if one paltry bank gets a taste of its own medicine, and twenty six million? Chicken feed.

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  61. joeCanuck (profile) says:

    Granni,

    I don’t condone bank robberies but I think Pippakin has it right. People are so fed up to the teeth with the banks that they don’t have the slightest sympathy for them as an institution.
    The horror that the two employees underwent, then the treatment of the younger one will, I am sure, be condemned by most people.

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  62. another (profile) says:

    Regardless, it would seem that the bank smear has not stuck. Latest Irish Times Poll, compared with the last Irish Times poll of September 30th were: Fianna Fáil, 17 per cent (down seven points); Fine Gael, 30 per cent (up six points); Labour, 25 per cent (down eight points); Sinn Féin, 15 per cent (up seven points); Green Party, 2 per cent (no change); and Independents/others, 11 per cent (up two points).

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  63. pippakin (profile) says:

    joe

    Of course I condemn the hostage taking and intimidation. No one was hurt and as far as I know everyone involved has fully recovered from the trauma.

    I am surprised though that, since the robbery appears to have been an ‘inside’ job no insider has been tried.

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  64. Mark (profile) says:

    Pippakin – ” No one was hurt and as far as I know everyone involved has fully recovered from the trauma ”

    I just can’t resist , how would you know ? did the tea leaves tell you ?

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  65. Mark (profile) says:

    Tea leafs even !

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  66. pippakin (profile) says:

    Mark

    Crystal ball dear…

    I do read the papers you know, and if anyone had been injured I’m sure it would have been all over all of them.

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  67. Mark (profile) says:

    Pippakin ,

    And here’s me thinking the family had written you a letter .

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  68. pippakin (profile) says:

    Mark

    I am in the fortunate and possibly rare position of not knowing anyone who has ever been involved in any criminal activity not as a perpetrator and not, thankfully, as a victim.

    I did say “as far as I know”

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  69. pippakin (profile) says:

    percy

    Oh I got my head around it and immediately dismissed it as ignorant, stupid, self serving nonsense.

    The kidnapping and murder of Jean McConville was depraved and sadistic. It had nothing to do with politics. If Mitchell McLaughlin can’t get his head around that I’m glad he’s in the north.

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  70. Mark (profile) says:

    Percy ,

    You gave me advice 5/6 years ago about not responding to posts that are so ridiculous you can’t get your head them . Can I repay the debt and …….. .

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  71. granni trixie (profile) says:

    I, too, am fed up to the teeth with the banks etc – but 26 million is NOT chicken feed and its still wrong to rob.
    I also suspect that some of the people kidnapped have long term trauma. This is not an “innocent” crime.

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  72. The Word (profile) black spot says:

    Percy/Pip

    Maybe it was evil and not good. Let’s get away from the self-serving morality of those who really have no empathy for others, and who are well concealed within these sociopathic organisations.

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  73. pippakin (profile) says:

    granni trixie

    In my world if I deliberately falsify an application for a loan that is a crime. If I invest my life savings in a business that goes bankrupt I lose my investment. No one least of all the banks or the government would be rushing to my assistance to the tune of hundreds of billions of Euros pounds or dollars.

    If I knew who had robbed Northern Bank I would report them to the police but I’m not going to condemn in one that which has been so successfully carried out by others, nor will I be deterred from voting for someone on the grounds of their, alleged, involvement or knowledge of the crime.

    White collar crime is just as much a crime as any other but the shiny white collars seem to blind some governments.

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  74. percy (profile) black spot says:

    mark/pip
    maybe it wasn’t the best example, but if you guys are serious about what’s going on, then you gotta understand where people are coming from.

    good of you to remember me Mark, I look forward to getting to know you again.

    pips your moral certainties are close to the mark, but you’re not “hitting it” yet.. if things are as black and white as you suggest, the North would still be in “the troubles”

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  75. percy (profile) black spot says:

    The word
    I’m of the opinion that these “sociopaths” are not born, but created… there’s more questions before we can arrive at the full answers.

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  76. joeCanuck (profile) says:

    Wrong but not a crime.

    Good luck to anyone trying that line with a Judge or Jury.

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  77. Brian (profile) says:

    Does Miss McConville have to be brought up on every thread? Jeezus I was surprised no one brought her up on the thread about Pearse Doherty’s speech?

    This thread is about there being no evidence linking SF to the bank robbery. There is absolutely none, and for other parties to continue to insist/imply that SF is behind it just shows how little the truth matters to politicians.

    One bank robbery 6 years ago probably netted whoever did it 1/10000000000th of the amount of terrible bank debt and bad investments that Mr Cowen and company decided that Irish taxpayers would have to cover.

    Of course FF and co. would try to divert attention anyway possible away from their own incompetence, idiocy, and corruption.

    A little clarity, for christ’s sake.

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  78. Alias (profile) says:

    There is no evidence before the courts because the Shinner leadership is a protected species. If the British state didn’t cover up for its delinquent touts then it would have been impossible for the DUP to have allowed the Shinners to assist in the administration of British rule, and that would have put have an end to the ongoing normalisation policy. Much like the murder of Paul Quinn, the Shinners did it because they could get away with it.

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  79. achtung (profile) says:

    how can anyone believe anything the sinn fein leadership says when adams denies he was ever in the IRA, conor murphy knows nothing about the paul quinn murder, or those who perpetrated it, that slab murphy isn’t involved in cross-border smuggling, that the colombian 3 were on holiday in the jungle. of course, the break-in at castlereagh was nothing to do with them either!

    we could go on folks. all of the above we are told, including the northern bank robbery, were committed by securocrats to blacken the name of the republican movement. yeah, and pigs can fly. sinn fein leadership = the best lying

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  80. Mr E Mann (profile) says:

    Achtung, subject to the disclaimer that I think Adams probably was distanced from PIRA’s illegal activities some time in the early 80s, you are missing the implication of all the misstatements you list. SF wants to be a party of government in the Republic as well as in the North. They are just showing that they can shamelessly lie with the best of them. That means they are ready for government.

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