Sinn Féin: “There is not a shred of evidence linking republicans to the Northern Bank robbery…”
While Taoiseach Brian Cowen refused to answer any questions on the issue, former Taoiseach Bertie Ahern, Justice Minister, Dermot Ahern and Health Minister Mary Harney have all re-stated the Irish government’s 2005 assessment that the Sinn Féin leadership of Gerry Adams and Martin McGuinness had prior knowledge of the Northern Bank robbery.
And a report in The Irish News today notes that
Sinn Féin’s view that there is “not a shred of evidence” to link the IRA to the robbery of the Northern Bank is not supported by a series of high-profile court cases.
Indeed. And not just court cases, but actual criminal convictions as a result of Operation Phoenix.
Additionally, Mary-Alice Clancy emails to point out that she revealed in her book, Peace Without Consensus [P 147], that
After the collapse of the proximity talks, British officials pursued a ‘bilateral approach’ wherein Sinn Féin and the British government would move the political process forward without the DUP or the Irish government. This approach, however, came to an abrupt end with the robbery of £26.5million from the Northern Bank in Belfast. For many Irish and British officials, it was apparent from the beginning that the operation was most likely the IRA’s work. According to a senior Irish official, in the three months leading up to the robbery, the gardaí had some of the individuals who are alleged to have been involved in the subsequent money laundering of the Northern Bank notes under surveillance. During this period, the guards are alleged to have witnessed meetings between the robbers, a southern businessman who allegedly laundered the money for the IRA and the republican leadership. As a senior Irish official argues, after the bank robbery the gardaí realised that these meetings related to the Northern Bank. [added emphasis]
An Irish Independent report is more explicit.
And some of those allegations have also turned into criminal convictions.
Pleading leniency, defence counsel Ciaran O’Loughlin SC told the judge his client had been used by the IRA and was far removed from the original offence in Belfast.
And, for the sceptical, here’s an interesting snippet included in the Wikileaked US Embassy cables [dated 01 June 2005]
[Then-Irish Foreign Minister Dermot] Ahern also touched on the balance the GOI tries to strike in talking about and to Sinn Fein. He said PSNI and others told the GOI that its tough line on Sinn Fein since December had been helpful but no longer was, and they should “lighten up.” [added emphasis]
Topic: Government, Society and Culture
Region: Ireland, Northern Ireland, UK
Does anyone actually believe SF has any control whatsoever over what former PIRA members have or have not done, or are doing or not doing, or either what they will or will not do.
the allegations in the thread really are a non-story, only of interest to those who wish to besmirch SF.
Keep your dirty fantasies to yourselves..
SF have just won a bye-election in Donegal,
that is a news story.
“Keep your dirty fantasies to yourselves”
They are not just dirty, they are disgusting and depraved and they are not fantasies.
Alias,
The Shinner apologists will try to portray it as a victimless crime, conveniently ignoring the kidnapping of ordinary workers, terrorising their families, and threatening them with death it they didn’t cooperate
Presumably you feel that the police then arresting the victim and having him prosecuted will also have terrorised him? Certainly I’m happy to describe the gent in question as a victim, as I don’t assume that he was guilty of organising the raid. Unlike the PSNI, who after he was terrorised by these robbers decide to terrorise him further by arresting him and failing to have him prosecuted. One would almost think the cops had a reason to force an ill advised prosecution of an innocent man.
Why would the PSNI (who also happened to have a large stash of Northern Bank notes buried behind a wall in their golf club) follow that course of action I wonder?
No point in mentioning that inconvenient fact though eh? Why would the cops have the money? Who could the cops blame it on if they did carry out the raid? No-one spring to mind? You seem to like your conspiracy theories, perhaps you’ll enjoy that one. Certainly I’ve provided as much proof as anyone attacking the shinners have done, which is to say absolutely nothing other than innuendo. Ya know the same stuff you like to use to hang the shinners for this robbery, despite the fact that the accusors also happen to be the only people caught with verifiable Northern Bank robbery money: the cops.
and the fact that consumers make good the losses through increased banking charges and ordinary taxpayers pay taxes to investigate the crime.
Nah, you’re mistaken. I’m a Northern Bank customer and their exorbitant charges weren’t further raised after the robbery. You see, as they were profitable, they simply continued to charge the same as before, and would have anticipated gradually rebuilding their fortunes to their prior level. But certainly my statememt contains no “bank robbery” levy. One assumes banks have insurance though, so no doubt the Northern didn’t get their fingers burned too badly and if they did, fuck ‘em.
It’s good also to see the likes of Pip (the number one anti Shinner from over the border) and others get to work on the old Robert McCartney & Paul Quinn stories again, it’s been too long. Though as no one has been succesfully convicted it’s just more pissing in the wind, as per. It’s heartwarming to see good folks using the misery of bereaved families to help their hobby horse along.
No doubt individual IRA members were involved in both cases, but as the IMC noted (usually their word’s good enough for every involved government, and good enough for certain individuals as long as they are negative about the IRA – but not good enough for the anti shinner brigade when they don’t say what said people want to hear) the leadership were not involved in these individual disputes.
They were carried out by individuals, who unsurprisingly, used their IRA skills to attempt to remove forensic evidence. Still, probably Adams’ fault, just as it’s Adams’ fault that his brother is an alleged paedophile, as it’s Adams’ fault that the cops tried to use a victim as an informer, and it’s Adams’ fault about all that damned snow. Pish, pish and more pish.
Finally, it’s genuinely funny that the usual anti Sinn Fein trolls can’t figure out a reason why politicians from a rival political party might suggest that SF are responsible for, well, everything. In fact the only strange thing, given the politicians in the south’s visceral hatred of SF, is that if they had evidence of any kind they’d sit on it, instead of using it to hurt the shinners. More bollocks from the usual quarters. If Bertie, Brian etc. had a shred of evidence they’d use it to kill SF off in the south – their number one priority after lining certain pockets.
Thankfully the voters of the south (apart from Pippakin obviously) seem to realise their politicians are a pack of liars, and are now looking at voting SF in numbers. Keep whining folks, I look forward to hearing much more of it post election.
Ah, any sign of the other 50 comments anywhere?
Neil
You seem unable to resist dragging me into your little flights of fancy.
I’m actually not that concerned about the bank robbery. Oh I wouldn’t be surprised to find it was IRA, any more than I’m surprised at the attempted smear job on the police. Sure why not plant the loot at Scotland Yard.
No, I’m afraid In the current circumstances the robbery wouldn’t prevent me voting for someone who imo was at least robbing the right ‘people’.
What will have an effect on me and others is the possibility of electing yet more liars. Add that to the violence SF have never hesitated to excuse or not see at all and it amounts to serious doubts. I like many others am completely underwhelmed by worn out republican rhetoric.
Scroll down the bottom Mick for ‘older comments’… (this arrangement is under review btw)
Neil: Why would the PSNI (who also happened to have a large stash of Northern Bank notes buried behind a wall in their golf club) follow that course of action I wonder?
Why not join the club yourself? You don’t need to be in the police.
http://www.newforge.com/BecomeAMember.aspx
You could search the toilets and see if there are any more stashes. Or plant another one.
I’m sure its not a news story either,but there seems to be a morality in Sluggger-World whereby robbing a bank isnt wrong! I know I am repeating this view but want to point up this really is something worth resisting.
Seems to me a kind of relativism is going on – the cops do this,the bank men have done that ergo robbin’ by the IRA is OK. I rarely think of people as stupid but its on my mind now.
alias: Cynic2, Irish government policy is a matter for the Irish government, not for Her Majesty’s Chief Constable in NI. It is improper for him to offer any direction whatsoever, never mind dictates to “lighten up.”
I thought that one of the Republican triumphs during the negotiation of the GFA was that there would be ongoing contact between the Irish Government and the PSNI. Maybe it was Sammy McNally that said it? But did they assume that the PSNI would be silent throughout the meetings?
Granni Trixie
Thanks to the combined greed, duplicity and stupidity of the banks and the Irish government the Irish people are facing the worst situation the country has been in since independence. All I say is that some people including me may not be disposed to take offence if one paltry bank gets a taste of its own medicine, and twenty six million? Chicken feed.
Granni,
I don’t condone bank robberies but I think Pippakin has it right. People are so fed up to the teeth with the banks that they don’t have the slightest sympathy for them as an institution.
The horror that the two employees underwent, then the treatment of the younger one will, I am sure, be condemned by most people.
Regardless, it would seem that the bank smear has not stuck. Latest Irish Times Poll, compared with the last Irish Times poll of September 30th were: Fianna Fáil, 17 per cent (down seven points); Fine Gael, 30 per cent (up six points); Labour, 25 per cent (down eight points); Sinn Féin, 15 per cent (up seven points); Green Party, 2 per cent (no change); and Independents/others, 11 per cent (up two points).
joe
Of course I condemn the hostage taking and intimidation. No one was hurt and as far as I know everyone involved has fully recovered from the trauma.
I am surprised though that, since the robbery appears to have been an ‘inside’ job no insider has been tried.
Pippakin – ” No one was hurt and as far as I know everyone involved has fully recovered from the trauma ”
I just can’t resist , how would you know ? did the tea leaves tell you ?
Tea leafs even !
Mark
Crystal ball dear…
I do read the papers you know, and if anyone had been injured I’m sure it would have been all over all of them.
Pippakin ,
And here’s me thinking the family had written you a letter .
Mark
I am in the fortunate and possibly rare position of not knowing anyone who has ever been involved in any criminal activity not as a perpetrator and not, thankfully, as a victim.
I did say “as far as I know”
percy
Oh I got my head around it and immediately dismissed it as ignorant, stupid, self serving nonsense.
The kidnapping and murder of Jean McConville was depraved and sadistic. It had nothing to do with politics. If Mitchell McLaughlin can’t get his head around that I’m glad he’s in the north.
Percy ,
You gave me advice 5/6 years ago about not responding to posts that are so ridiculous you can’t get your head them . Can I repay the debt and …….. .
I, too, am fed up to the teeth with the banks etc – but 26 million is NOT chicken feed and its still wrong to rob.
I also suspect that some of the people kidnapped have long term trauma. This is not an “innocent” crime.
Percy/Pip
Maybe it was evil and not good. Let’s get away from the self-serving morality of those who really have no empathy for others, and who are well concealed within these sociopathic organisations.
granni trixie
In my world if I deliberately falsify an application for a loan that is a crime. If I invest my life savings in a business that goes bankrupt I lose my investment. No one least of all the banks or the government would be rushing to my assistance to the tune of hundreds of billions of Euros pounds or dollars.
If I knew who had robbed Northern Bank I would report them to the police but I’m not going to condemn in one that which has been so successfully carried out by others, nor will I be deterred from voting for someone on the grounds of their, alleged, involvement or knowledge of the crime.
White collar crime is just as much a crime as any other but the shiny white collars seem to blind some governments.
mark/pip
maybe it wasn’t the best example, but if you guys are serious about what’s going on, then you gotta understand where people are coming from.
good of you to remember me Mark, I look forward to getting to know you again.
pips your moral certainties are close to the mark, but you’re not “hitting it” yet.. if things are as black and white as you suggest, the North would still be in “the troubles”
The word
I’m of the opinion that these “sociopaths” are not born, but created… there’s more questions before we can arrive at the full answers.
Wrong but not a crime.
Good luck to anyone trying that line with a Judge or Jury.
Does Miss McConville have to be brought up on every thread? Jeezus I was surprised no one brought her up on the thread about Pearse Doherty’s speech?
This thread is about there being no evidence linking SF to the bank robbery. There is absolutely none, and for other parties to continue to insist/imply that SF is behind it just shows how little the truth matters to politicians.
One bank robbery 6 years ago probably netted whoever did it 1/10000000000th of the amount of terrible bank debt and bad investments that Mr Cowen and company decided that Irish taxpayers would have to cover.
Of course FF and co. would try to divert attention anyway possible away from their own incompetence, idiocy, and corruption.
A little clarity, for christ’s sake.
There is no evidence before the courts because the Shinner leadership is a protected species. If the British state didn’t cover up for its delinquent touts then it would have been impossible for the DUP to have allowed the Shinners to assist in the administration of British rule, and that would have put have an end to the ongoing normalisation policy. Much like the murder of Paul Quinn, the Shinners did it because they could get away with it.
how can anyone believe anything the sinn fein leadership says when adams denies he was ever in the IRA, conor murphy knows nothing about the paul quinn murder, or those who perpetrated it, that slab murphy isn’t involved in cross-border smuggling, that the colombian 3 were on holiday in the jungle. of course, the break-in at castlereagh was nothing to do with them either!
we could go on folks. all of the above we are told, including the northern bank robbery, were committed by securocrats to blacken the name of the republican movement. yeah, and pigs can fly. sinn fein leadership = the best lying
Achtung, subject to the disclaimer that I think Adams probably was distanced from PIRA’s illegal activities some time in the early 80s, you are missing the implication of all the misstatements you list. SF wants to be a party of government in the Republic as well as in the North. They are just showing that they can shamelessly lie with the best of them. That means they are ready for government.