Details of Ireland’s €85 billion bail-out agreed

As RTÉ reports, European Union finance ministers have agreed the €85 billion bail-out for Ireland.

Of the total package €35bn is to be used to support the banking system. Of that €10bn will be used immediately to inject fresh capital as a buffer against expected loan losses.

The remaining €25bn will be made available as a contingency fund, effectively a massive overdraft facility, to be drawn down by the banks as and when required.

And the other €50billion?  The Irish Government’s “budgetary financing needs”.

The BBC report adds

[European finance ministers' chairman Jean-Claude Juncker] said: “Ministers concur with the [European] Commission and the European Central Bank that providing a loan to Ireland is warranted to safeguard financial stability in the euro area and in the European Union as a whole.”

From the Irish Government statement

The State’s contribution to the €85 billion facility will be €17.5 billion, which will come from the National Pension Reserve Fund (NPRF) and other domestic cash resources. This means that the extent of the external assistance will be reduced to €67.5 billion.

The purpose of the external financial support is to return our economy to sustainable growth and to ensure that we have a properly functioning healthy banking system.

The external support will be broken down as follows: €22.5 billion from the European Financial Stability Mechanism (EFSM); €22.5 billion from the International Monetary Fund (IMF); and €22.5 billion from the European Financial Stability Fund (EFSF) and bilateral loans. The bilateral loans will be subject to the same conditionality as provided by the programme.

The facility will include up to €35 billion to support the banking system; €10 billion for the immediate recapitalisation and the remaining €25 billion will be provided on a contingency basis. Up to €50 billion to cover the financing of the State. The funds in the facility will be drawn down as necessary, although the amount will depend on the capital requirements of the financial system and NTMA bond issuances during the programme period.

If drawn down in total today, the combined annual average interest rate would be of the order of 5.8% per annum. The rate will vary according to the timing of the drawdown and market conditions.

I’d like to see how that “average interest rate” was calculated.  Considering that the Irish Government are effectively lending €17.5 billion to themselves… from the National Pension Reserve Fund and “other domestic cash resources”.

Calling Frau Bundeskanzerlin, Frau Bundeskanzerlin, come on…

Adds  From the updated BBC report

Details of the 85bn euro plan include:

  • an interest rate on rescue loans of an average 5.83%
  • the 35bn euros allocated to Irish banks is divided into 10bn euros for “immediate recapitalisation measures” and 25bn euros as a contingency fund
  • the Irish Republic itself will contribute 17.5bn euros to the overall fund
  • the EU will contribute 45bn euros, including direct bilateral loans from the UK, Sweden and Denmark
  • the IMF will contribute 22.5bn euros
  • allows the Irish Republic to delay by one year to 2015 its deadline for reducing its budget deficit to 3% of GDP.

The Irish government has also said that interest payments on all state debt will account for more than 20% of tax revenues in 2014.

and from the updated RTÉ report

The Taoiseach said the loans would allow Ireland to fund budgets over the coming years.

The duration of the programme is for three years while the average length of the loans is up to seven and a half years.

Mr Cowen said people should understand that the loans are necessary to fund our budgetary requirements over the coming years.

He said this was money we would otherwise have got from the markets, but it would have been at higher prices.

Mr Cowen repeated that the four-year plan stood but the extended 2015 target for deficit reduction simply allowed for some scope if growth did not reach targets.

Update  Some more information about that “average interest rate”.  Via a post at The Irish Economy, here is the joint statement from EU Commissioner Olli Rehn and IMF Managing Director Dominique Strauss-Kahn.  And, more significantly, from the IMF press release

The choice of an EFF offers Ireland a facility with a longer repayment period, with repayments to the Fund starting after four and a half years and ending after 10 years. The IMF charges member countries a uniform interest rate on nonconcessional loans, which is a floating rate based on the SDR interest rate, which is updated weekly. (The SDR interest rate is a weighted average of yields on three-month Treasury bills for the United States, Japan, and the United Kingdom, and the three-month Eurepo rate.) For amounts up to 300 percent of quota, the lending interest rate is currently 1.38 percent, while the lending rate on amounts over 300 percent of quota includes a surcharge that is initially 200 basis points and rises to 300 basis points after three years. At the current SDR interest rate, the average lending interest rate at the peak level of access under the arrangement (2,320 percent of quota) would be 3.12 percent during the first three years, and just under 4 percent after three years.

Perhaps an economist, or someone else, could use that information to work out what the other interest rates should be to get the overall “average” of 5.8%?

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  • Alanbrooke

    shit it’s worse that you think

    Ireland’s now taking its orders from Luxembourg

  • pippakin

    Negotiation my aunt! The ECB et al told the government and they said yes. It terrible and likely to get worse.

  • The Raven

    Ouch.

  • Pete Baker

    Adds From the updated BBC report

    Details of the 85bn euro plan include:

    • an interest rate on rescue loans of an average 5.83%
    • the 35bn euros allocated to Irish banks is divided into 10bn euros for “immediate recapitalisation measures” and 25bn euros as a contingency fund
    • the Irish Republic itself will contribute 17.5bn euros to the overall fund
    • the EU will contribute 45bn euros, including direct bilateral loans from the UK, Sweden and Denmark
    • the IMF will contribute 22.5bn euros
    • allows the Irish Republic to delay by one year to 2015 its deadline for reducing its budget deficit to 3% of GDP.

    The Irish government has also said that interest payments on all state debt will account for more than 20% of tax revenues in 2014.

    and from the updated RTÉ report

    The Taoiseach said the loans would allow Ireland to fund budgets over the coming years.

    The duration of the programme is for three years while the average length of the loans is up to seven and a half years.

    Mr Cowen said people should understand that the loans are necessary to fund our budgetary requirements over the coming years.

    He said this was money we would otherwise have got from the markets, but it would have been at higher prices.

    Mr Cowen repeated that the four-year plan stood but the extended 2015 target for deficit reduction simply allowed for some scope if growth did not reach targets.

  • ulsterfan

    Who are we to blame for this mess.?
    Everyone seems to point the finger at the banks but the more we learn the full resposibility does not lie there.
    The Government of the day and the ordinary peopole of Ireland are as equally culpable.
    The Banks were foolish to lend money to poor risks at low interest rates while Irishmen and women borrowed large sums to buy property which had a true value much lower than the debt they incurred to buy.
    The old saying is true about knowing the price of every thing and the value of nothing.
    Having acquired the property they thought they ownned a great asset and then borrowed again to fund the BMW second holiday or second home little thinking their debts would be unmanageable.
    They were fools and now have to pay for stupidity.
    The Banks did not force money down their throats.
    The Government were incomptent to permit this to happen.
    In short I do not have much sympathy for their predicament.

  • the future’s bright, the future’s orange

    Thursday, 18 November, 2010, 10:10

    To: The citizens of the Republic of Ireland:
    In light of your absolute incompetence in running your own affairs, by continually electing the same shower of useless, greedy and corrupt politicians, the shocking financial crisis of the last 3 years but most of all your complete inability to bring anyone to account for this mess or take to the streets to demonstrate your anger, Her Majesty feels compelled to take immediate action.

    You have had 88 years to get this right but have made a complete hames of it. You cannot blame the mainland for this one.

    Additionally, because of your total fascination with supporting English football teams (and 1 Scottish), and almost total failure to support the Airtricity league. This is an obvious expression of desire to be British.

    The final straw was the announcement of Prince William’s forthcoming marriage appearing on the front page of all major Irish newspapers and headline TV news on the very day Europe were trying to finalise the takeover
    of the Irish economy. This clearly demonstrates a sub-conscious desire to be British (and NOT European!).

    Therefore, we hereby give notice of the revocation of your independence, and effective immediately, Her Sovereign Majesty Queen Elizabeth II will resume monarchical duties over the Irish Free State .

    Your new prime minister, David Cameron, will appoint a governor for Ireland immediately.

    Her majesty’s government is extremely concerned that Ireland has already given up it’s sovereignty to Brussels and Strasbourg, the European Central Bank, the International Monetary Fund and anyone else you can borrow a few quid off so is taking this action to protect both the people of Ireland and to restore the British Isles to it’s proper status. Dail Eireann and Seanad Eirann will be disbanded. A questionnaire may be circulated next year to determine whether any of you noticed. All current TD’s will be immediately re-deployed, some arrested and tried for treason.

    To aid in the transition to a British Crown Dependency, the following rules are introduced with immediate effect:

    1. The Irish language is not banned, but will no longer be part of the school curriculum, no longer share equal status with English and all signs in Irish are to be removed immediately. They are pointless. TG4 will be disbanded The word(s) feck, fecker, fecking are banned – you are not fooling anyone.

    2. RTE will be disbanded, you all watch BBC, ITV and Sky Sports anyway. The money saved will pay for Road Signs.

    3. March 17th will no longer be celebrated as a holiday.

    4. Bacon and Cabbage are hereby banned – no one likes it. Similarly,
    Abrakebabra is banned immediately and will be replaced with handily placed
    kebab vans within each district. Indian restaurants will also open until
    4am.

    5. You will re-learn your original national anthem, God Save The Queen.

    6. Road Safety: a) Gay Byrne is sacked as chairman of the Road Safety Authority. Whoever thought the smuggest individual ever to grace a TV screens could possibly help? b) All major traffic light intersections will be replaced with roundabouts c) The imperial Mile measurement is to be re-introduced with immediate effect. d) All learner drivers are banned from driving alone with immediate effect. e) All African driving licenses are hereby immediately revoked. f) All persons who received a full driving license in the “amnesty” are also banned from driving until they sit the test. g) A new Garda Traffic division is to be established to patrol shopping centre car parks for cases of extremely bad parking and driving the wrong way round the car parks. Fine of £100 and 3 points

    7. ALL tribunals will cease immediately. The money saved will be spent on new easily visible street signs.

    8. DRINK: The price of a pint of beer is to be immediately re-aligned with UK prices – £2.50 a pint. The restricted number of pub licenses is to be removed immediately, and a Wetherspoon’s will be opened in every town centre throughout Ireland , along with an O’Neill’s proper Irish pub. Guinness is to be rationed to 3 pints of day per person. It is for the greater good.

    9. The Euro will be phased out over the next 6 months and replaced with the Queen’s shilling.

    10. Dressing up 8 year old girls in wedding dresses is also considered an extremely unhealthy activity.

    11. You will cease playing all Gaelic games. All GAA facilities will be handed over to the English cricket authorities. Cricket will become mandatory in all schools.

    12. Please tell us what happened to Shergar..

    13. An inland revenue agent from Her Majesty’s Government will be with you
    shortly to ensure the acquisition of all monies due (backdated to 1949).

    14. Talking of 1949, Ireland will be immediately re-admitted to the Commonwealth and therefore allowed access to commonwealth country trade markets but more importantly have a better chance of winning medals at a major sporting event.

  • Aldamir

    ulsterfan, I tend to agree with you. It is easy to point the finger at banks, but those reckless borrowers with their overpriced flash lifestyles on credit are primarily responsible.

  • pippakin

    Does anyone know what happened to the rumoured 7 billion from the Brits. I understand the loan is 3.6 billion, is there a reason why?

  • percy

    Best one I heard was this: re the Chopra’s:

    If the economist (Ajai) makes you feel rotten,
    you can buy Deepak’s ( healer) book to make you feel better.

    IMF meets AUM

  • John Ó Néill

    Some stink being raised immediately over the average rate of interest being 5.8% – since, just as Pete points out, the bailout includes the government lending itself €17.5 billion from the national pension relief fund. It is being claimed that this amounts to an actual rate of 7.25% for the loan facility.

  • Alanbrooke

    according to C4 news the rest of the money is paid via IMF and EU subscriptions giving a grand total of £6.2 bn.
    wiereder was the staement that Ireland will have to contribute € 17 bn to the € 85 bn package (!) meaning the € 85bn package is really € 67 bn net.

  • Mack

    Losses on loans to everyday Irish citizens haven’t been accounted for yet. The current banking crisis has it’s origins in loans to a small group of elite developers. The day of reckoning for loans to Sean and Mary citizen has yet to come..

  • alan56

    It is being reported that the interest payment per annum will require 20% of the tax take. That seems scary?

  • John East Belfast

    “The Irish government has also said that interest payments on all state debt will account for more than 20% of tax revenues in 2014″

    That sound optomistic to me ?
    From memory Tax Revenues are around 28b to 35b in a good year) – say 30b. Therefore saying 6billion Euros will be the Interest charge is optomistic considering that looks close to the interest charge on this bail out alone not to mention existing and futire borrowing.

    I would say it would be close to a third.

    There is no question that if the ROI was an individual or a corporate it would have long filed for bankruptcy or insolvency.

  • Mack

    It’s not really that weird that a lender of last resort should demand that the borrower also throw every last cent they have at the problem.

  • RepublicanStones

    There was a guy on RTE who said that the money going to cover the banks will only cover the big business side of things, not a cent will go to cover private/small lending (Joe Bloggs).

    Off topic –

    http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/interactive/2010/nov/28/us-embassy-cables-wikileaks

  • Pete Baker

    Update Some more information about that “average interest rate”. Via a post at The Irish Economy, here is the joint statement from EU Commissioner Olli Rehn and IMF Managing Director Dominique Strauss-Kahn. And, more significantly, from the IMF press release

    The choice of an EFF offers Ireland a facility with a longer repayment period, with repayments to the Fund starting after four and a half years and ending after 10 years. The IMF charges member countries a uniform interest rate on nonconcessional loans, which is a floating rate based on the SDR interest rate, which is updated weekly. (The SDR interest rate is a weighted average of yields on three-month Treasury bills for the United States, Japan, and the United Kingdom, and the three-month Eurepo rate.) For amounts up to 300 percent of quota, the lending interest rate is currently 1.38 percent, while the lending rate on amounts over 300 percent of quota includes a surcharge that is initially 200 basis points and rises to 300 basis points after three years. At the current SDR interest rate, the average lending interest rate at the peak level of access under the arrangement (2,320 percent of quota) would be 3.12 percent during the first three years, and just under 4 percent after three years.

    Perhaps an economist, or someone else, could use that information to work out what the other interest rates should be to get the overall “average” of 5.8%?

  • http://www.labourbelfast.blogspot.com DC
  • Mack

    More like €33bn in a bad year. But still..

  • lamhdearg

    Wikileaks?

  • Drumlins Rock

    DC, always prefered this version, its a MUST SEE

  • http://www.labourbelfast.blogspot.com DC

    It’s such an epic tune even delivering mail postman pat stylee is well – epic.

  • Kathy C

    Hi,
    for years my sister and I contacted various political leaders in Ireland warning of disaster and it is all due to one word—ECHELON. The UK monitors every fax and email and phone call that goes into Ireland all under the guise of thwarting terrorism.. However we have said over and over again for years….the UK is monitoring every Irish Bank and business in Ireland and knows what they are doing. Ireland gave up lots of it’s monetary soverignty years ago by letting ECHELON know everyting they were doing. Now it’s come to pass

  • lamhdearg

    Hi kathy c
    Do you think the uk are responsible for Eire’s money problems.

  • lamhdearg

    Sorry U.K. is

  • pippakin

    Kathy C

    Hello, I’m not sure how much the British know about Irish banks but they definitely know Irish banks owe them hundreds of millions.

    The loans are some of the bank debt that is dragging Ireland down.

    The thing is the British situation is not much better than our own. At the moment they are more flexible because they can manipulate their own currency. Ireland as part of the Euro has no flexibility.

    I still say Ireland should default on the bank loans.

  • Comrade Stalin

    This is complete and total rubbish. Bank communications, indeed communications between most private companies as well as state bodies, are encrypted. Aside from successful hacking attempts there is no way for governments to eavesdrop unless organizations take no security precautions. Regular telephone landlines are unencrypted and easy to tap, but mobile phones are encrypted and accordingly are not easy to tap.

    God, Americans just love their stupid conspiracy theories.

  • lamhdearg

    What happens when someone or a country defaults on loans, there must be some recourse for those owed moneys.

  • Comrade Stalin

    I’m just imagining the conversations in the Departments. “Christ I wish we’d listened to that American woman who kept phoning up every Friday warning that the British were conspiring to wreck our economy. If only we had we might not be in the mess we are now!”

  • George

    Irish banks owe British banks hundreds of billions not hundreds of millions.

  • pippakin

    George

    I was leading up to it, what’s a few zeros here or there. We can’t pay it and that’s that,

  • Archie Noble

    “In short I do not have much sympathy for their predicament.”

    I have to assume that either you view sympathy as a precious and finite resource to be husbanded at all costs or that you have no idea of the U.K financial situation. Gosh are you in for a shock.

    I have great sympathy for all of the plain people in both juristrictions who are not responsible for this mess.

  • Wilde Rover

    Just so everyone is clear (and I haven’t misunderstood, all the money being talked about now is Fat Cat money) not money owed by the average person, right?

    This is socialism for the rich.

    Capitalism for the poor will arrive in due time.

  • Driftwood

    There goes the neighbourhood.

  • Wilde Rover

    Reports over at p.ie that the pension money has already gone to cover the cost of dodgy derivatives.

    Perhaps that will stir the peons from their football/X Factor watching slumber.

    This could snowball globally

  • Pete Baker

    Apart from the fact that the majority of the borrowing [some €50billion] is to fund the shortfall in planned government expenditure compared to expected tax intake.

    The state of the banking system feeds into the market disbelief in the financial future of the state which, in turn, means that borrowing the required funds there, through bonds, would prove to be prohibitively expensive.

    So it’s the IMF and the EU, et al.

  • http://www.labourbelfast.blogspot.com DC

    With a bit of Wagner on the go, you just never know what could happen next politically!

  • Alias

    The interest rate on the EU and bi-lateral member states contribution of 45 billion euro is circa 6.7% given that the IMF interest rate is circa 4% on its contribution of 22.5 billion euro, and assuming that Ireland’s contribution is interest-free (not accounting for the loss of any income that the state currently derives from its pension fund).

    In effect, Ireland is being punished by the EU with a punitive for bailing-out the eurosystem. That is propaganda to create the impression that the bankruptcy of the state occurred as a result of sovereign debts (which were actually the lowest in the EU as a percentage of GDP before the EU instructed the state to bail-out the eurosystem) rather than being the result of bailing-out the eurosystem and a result of joining it in the first place.

    It is also propaganda to present this loan as being to serve a fiscal adjustment in domestic budget when it is only needed because the state has blown all its reverses bailing-out the eurosystem and destroyed its own credit rating in the process (which was Triple AAA+ before bailing-out the eurosystem).

    Ireland has sacrificed itself to bail-out a monetary system that ruined its economy, and that it will find is even less suited to its needs as it diverges even more dramatically as a bankrupt statelet from the state for which the monetary and macroeconomic policies are devised.

  • Alias

    Incidentally, to add to that that if Ireland’s share of the loan is being used to cover the actual rate of the EU’s and bi-lateral member states share then the interest rate is circa 8.7%.

  • Susan

    Excellent questions about the true interest rate–including the question of the interest rate on the money the Irish government is effectively loaning to itself, for Pete’s sake (if you’ll pardon the expression). Paul Krugman of the New York Times today called it “The Irish Non-Bailout”

    “So, a credit line at 5.8 percent interest. Considering that Ireland was able to borrow at that rate as recently as mid-September, and was falling off a cliff then, why is this supposed to solve the problem?

    What’s the Gaelic for “You’ve gotta be kidding”?

    http://tinyurl.com/29zfeav

  • Susan

    I realise I misspoke (well, I certainly hope I did) — surely Ireland could not have agreed to pay interest on its own contribution to the package. But is that little detail being manipulated to keep the “average” rate at “only” 5.8%?

    The Financial Times is putting the Irish contribution at “more than €10bn” and notes, as Pete has, that it will do this by dipping into the National Pension Reserve Fund — which, as even the Financial Times can’t help noting, ” was originally set up in 2002 to help pre-fund part of the pension liabilities of the public service from 2025 onwards. It has already been used to help recapitalise Bank of Ireland and Allied Irish Banks – a move that required a waiving of the rules governing the fund, as it had been restricted from concentrating its investments assets in any one country or sector.”

    http://tinyurl.com/2fnqzfx, hat tip for heads up on the FT article to R8 Your Politician Ireland

  • Alias

    There are four contributors to the loan but one aggregate interest rate. One interest rate has been declared by that party (the IMF) and another party’s interest rate (Ireland’s) can be assumed to be zero, so that puts the interest rate on the EU bailout fund and the bi-lateral member state loans at 6.7%.

    It’s possible that different member states agreed different rates or that they agreed a shared rate from that of the EU bailout fund rate since that former party is a group of parties but between those parties, in whatever combination, the actual rate is then 6.7%.

    If, however, the interest rate is to be calculated with Ireland’s contribution included then the actual interest is 8.7% even though Ireland wouldn’t, obviously, be paying interest to itself on its own ‘loan.’

    To make that a bit clearer for arithmophobes: 62.5 billion is the combined figure for the Member States/EU/Ireland (excluding the IMF) parties so an instalment figure that assumes that total figure would return a lower interest calculation than would actually be paid if the total figure excluded Ireland’s share of 17.5 billion and the total figure was therefore 45 billion. If that is the trick being pulled here then the actual interest rate on EU bailout fund and the bi-lateral member state loans at 8.7%.

    There is, of course, no prospect of the state repaying this loan or the other several hundred billion of private eurosystem debt that it has converted into sovereign debt since the combined interest rate for the all of these nationalised eurosystem debts will eventually surpass the total tax revenue of the state. That is why the CDS rate for Irish bonds has risen as a result of this ‘bailout’ and has also risen for Portugal and Spain.

    Sadly for those member states who lent their taxpayers’ money in good faith and for Ireland, there is no legal basis for these bi-lateral loans so these member states will be spitting at us when we default.

  • pippakin

    lamhdearg

    This is a question I keep asking.

    Ok it would be bad, we wouldn’t get any credit !! but we are funded to next summer and there is (was) the pension fund…

    We would have to make serious cuts but are we not doing that now?

    I have yet to see an answer that makes me think it would be worse.

    If we default but offer/continue to pay at a rate that we can afford how bad would that be, would the Brits and others be prepared to do a deal outside the EU/IMF?

    This gives us nothing and we are not being offered alternative/s.

  • http://amanfrommars.blogspot.com/ amanfromMars

    Taking a Look at the Bigger Picture.

    Posted by AmanfromMars on 11/28/2010 11:09:33 PM

    The Abiding Fundamental MetaDataBase Dilemmma.

    Whenever Unlimited Funds are Conjured from Nothing, why Loans with Predatory Punitive Interest rather than Gifts to Driver Enterprise and SMARTer Enabled Entrepreneur Ships …….. Cosmic Intelligence Vessels for Global Operating Devices.

    Posted by AmanfromMars on 11/29/2010 2:46:20 AM

    One Trails One along a Rocky Road for Virtual Enslavement to QEPE whilst the Other Delivers Shining Paths to Freedom with Global Wealth……. Realities Communal Assets.

    I choose the Latter Possibility for Future Realities. ….. with Present Placements, Processed and Embedded in a Virtual AI Solution/SMARTer Program with CyberIntelAIgent Special Event Security Protocols.

    Which is eligible for Federal Support and Funding according to these rules ……. http://cryptome.org/0002/eo13559.pdf ….. on GOD/Global Operating Devices.

    And you always get a wide thoughtful read here, …. http://thedailybell.com/1554/The-Insider-Trading-Promotion.html … where the above is nested.

    Does that Equate to Treasury Assistance in UKGBNI Clones/Master Pilots and/or is it Prefered Black and Watched and Mentored with Special Forces, As Is As Traditional in Irregular and Unconventional Fields of Dramatic Live Theatre?

    Is Loughside coming out to Play or are they Hunkered down in the Bunker Room. Spread a little Sunshine to the Presses is surely a National Security Intelligence Remit, or is that subcontracted out to the Private Sector with its Pools of Predators and Parasites, Pirates and Pimps, Politicians and Puppets. Or is Control of Communications and the Global Daily Agenda, a Concept you have not yet Realised.

  • Itwas SammyMcNally whatdoneit

    John,

    5.8%?

    Are we awaitng the verdict of the TMO before deciding the outcome of out little side bet (£20) of over-below 6% ?

  • Itwas SammyMcNally whatdoneit

    Alias,

    Are you suitably adorned(sack cloth and ashes) given the retention of corpo tax at 12.5%

  • pippakin

    Sammy

    Aren’t you jumping the gun a wee bit? surely the CT is longer up to us?

  • Drumlins Rock

    The UK’s Bi-Lateral loan may have strings attached I believe, in the form of collateral assets in the UK, at least I would hope so, I think many of us know of properties we suspect are now basically owned by the Irish State via NAMA or the banks, if the worst does come I would prefer the control of such assets to be in UK hands rather than EU or IMF.

  • Itwas SammyMcNally whatdoneit

    DR,

    Unionist fear of Southern control over the North of the country is never far from the surface. lol

    But interesting point – I suspect the answer is NO but interdependency and good relations will prevent any ‘vatican’ inspired undermining of the Ulster property market.

  • Mack

    The borrowing to fund the state is the legitimate responsibility of it’s citizens. Better the national pension reserve fund be spent on that.

    It’s the €35bn for the banks that is breaking the camel’s back.

  • Drumlins Rock

    Sammy, read what I said again, its IMF & EU control of the assets up here I am more concerned about, I doubt the NI economy will matter to them, whereas the UK government might have some concerns at least.

    BTW, I presume you are also in sackcloth, your praise of Clownan and Lieahan getting a 5% rate was premature to say the least.

  • Mack

    There is some argument that the terms of the bailout (such as it is) are actually better for Ireland than for Greece.

    The Greek loan was 5% over 3 years.
    The Irish was 5.8% over 10 years. Repayments don’t start until 4.5 years into the loan.

  • Greenflag

    Mack,

    ‘Repayments don’t start until 4.5 years into the loan.’

    Sounds like one of those interest only pay mortgages that helped fuel the USA property bubble burst and Ireland’s also :(

  • pippakin

    The expert on Sky News said that if you divide the debt amongst the Irish population you can see how impossible it is, and of course he is not the only one to point out this glaringly obvious fact!

  • Itwas SammyMcNally whatdoneit

    Mack,

    Have you seen an international debt comparison table anywhere for Western countries( including Ireland) – based on known debt and standardised to include/exclude pension provsions etc?

  • Itwas SammyMcNally whatdoneit

    DR,

    Fair Point re. Vatican run Ulster properties.

    Re. 5% We will have to wait to see what international opinion* is on how ‘good’ it is. 3% below what they had to pay a few weeks ago seems pretty good to me – and no change on corpo tax.

    *Not to include FG/Labour/SF or others in Ireland or UK or elsewhere following obvious agenda (e.g. anti or pro europe)