South Belfast UUP dump another of their Westminster candidates…
I cannot think of another political party that would spend the money and effort on a candidate in one election, only to dump them in the next. And Paula Bradshaw could be forgiven for wondering whether Reg Empey meant it when he promised the Ulster Unionist party would prioritise bringing women into the Assembly party.
To be fair to Sir Reg he is no longer leader. And by all accounts he will shortly be giving up his ministerial post. But his great ambition for bringing new faces just two years ago now lies in tatters.
Last night the South Belfast Ulster Unionist Association unceremoniously dumped their impressive Westminster candidate Paula Bradshaw into fourth place, making it unlikely her name will be one of the three to go forward to party headquarters to be put on the candidates list.
It means that Michael McGimpsey will have a free run for the only seat the party is likely to get in next year’s Assembly elections. Bradshaw was the only other candidate with sufficient exposure and traction with the voters of south Belfast to make it past the winning post.
She’s not the only Westminster candidate to be dumped by the party. Harry Hamilton has been dumped, ostensibly in favour of Harold McCusker’s son, Colin. And with a recount pending in East Londonderry, the odds may be turning against Lesley Macaulay in favour of the incumbent, David McClarty.
It creates the impression of a party now in full flight from the future, resiling to the names and faces they (and we) have known for several generations. Accordingly it is likely to remain what it has been for some time now: a dwindling and aging gentlemen only club. Until death (or the Alliance party) do it part.
Topic: Politics, Society and Culture
Region: Northern Ireland
FJH, are you sure you don’t have that backwards ? To me the church attracting someone like Widdecombe says more about them than it does about her. What sort of change do you think they would cause ? In other places I might interpret your observation as “you can’t trust those sneaky ex-Prods who surely must have ulterior motives”. And this stuff doesn’t happen in a vacuum.
The best contribution I remember reading was the one where a UCUNF supporter argued that, after triumphing here in NI, the party should begin to expand to the remaining 3 Ulster counties. And there was of course David McNarry’s prediction that the party would win, what was it, six seats ? I also loved being lectured about how Alliance were running scared.
Where the fuck is Shilliday when you need him ?
Ringland brings to mind a general point which gave rise to conflict in ‘the peace movement’/cr groups during the troubles. You can even go back to a the NUM in 69 for this. I am referring to what to some peace activists was “dirty politics”,infact it lead to a split when Oliver Napier et al broke away from NUM to form the APNI.
Then there was a small group in the Peace People (when McKeown came back again!) in mid 90s who set up a new party to contest the elections (called “Democratic Something”). It got few votes. But there were many other individuals who on occasion threw their hat in the ring of politics as prospective independent candidates. They never got anywhere either as a rule (eg EB _ David Bleakley, June Campion etc). TR fits this mould insofar as he was active in community relations work but unusal in joining a political party. In practice the two identities dont seem to mix in the publics eyes.
There is also however a strand (like myself,usually women) who take backseat roles in formal politics, CR/Peace activism AND integrated schools movement. Reminds me I once attended PP Talks around 1994 when Trimble in addressing a full room full of activists, managed to slag off all these arenas. Had style that man.
Well back in early months of this year,I was new here and frankly the names of contributors didnt mean much to me in terms of party affiliation. Actually they still dont mean a lot as very few are as open as say you and Granni Trixie. And anyway, I am not hung up on labels.
But its clear that many of UUPs loudest cheerleaders are lying low with embarrassment. Some continue to plough the same integrationalist furrow.
Gotta admire that…you dont see that kinda irrational optimism every day.
You know AP statistics better than I do but its established that in the western democracies membership of political parties is in decline while membership of community orientated or charities or pressure groups are rising.
The NUM was in a sense a pressure group and they dont always translate effectively into political parties. I suppose thats to be expected as a pressure group is effectively single issue while political parties are necessarily more complex.
Certainly my limited experience of folks wh were in NUM (and in fairness Im talking of people I knew and havent seen in 20 years) is that they are still a little sore at those who went “political” in the Alliance Party. Napier in particular…..well actually ONLY Napier…who some seem to dismiss as an opportunist.
Clearly I cant comment as I never formally met him and theres at least as much credible evidence to suggest that he was NOT an opportunist.
McKeown I have met….its important to realise that he was largely instrumental as a journalist in giving some organisation to the Peace People. Certainly his comeback as a foreground figure rather than a backround figure changed the dynamics of the Peace People…amid a lot of acrimony.
There IS a theory to be worked out here……NUM/AP …PeacePeople/PeacePeople with attitude.
Can we go back further?
If the NUM begat the AP (with NUM dissidents claiming there is no legitimacy) …I think AP can claim a kind of legitimacy from then.
the same might be said of the NICRA…..some of their disparate membership might attempt to deny the SDLP are the legitimate inheritors of that movement.
Actually there is a parallel. Whether AP or SDLP claim inheritence…..they are certainly the benefactors of that inheritence.
Amusing as it is to hear SF-IRA speak of their roles in NICRA….always more amusing when they were supporting NICRA from their mothers womb.
Amusing as it is to hear the old students from QUB talk up their role.
But i throw out this thought…….not thought thru by myself…..if the NUM (pressure group) indirectly begat AP (political party) was the NIWC a step back into a pressure group. Eating into AP vote in say South Belfast they were I think a step back from politics. While there are serious academic works going on analysing NIWC, it might just be too soon.
But certainly a lot the vitriol Ive heard against NIWC seems to come from AP members.
slug have you joined alliance.??
Yes I am surprisingly unpopular on Slugger. Cant think why
Completely respect your viewpoint Slug. That said, I’m sure you’ll consider carefully a decision of such magnitude.
Personally, I’ve also been impressed with the likes of Anna Lo, Naomi Long and by their willingness to advance younger candidates like Brendan Heading. I’d be tempted to vote Alliance (if tens of thousands of us do it, it may get the UUP back on track), but probably not join them – but that’s just me.
We’ve each got our own mind to make up and I suppose many ‘moderate/liberal/progressive’ UUP folks will be having some long dark nights of the soul in the months ahead, unless Tom Elliott suddenly surprises us all somehow.
For what it’s worth, I think the best argument for staying in the UUP and arguing the corner is that Elliott’s politics really are a dead end and the result in next year’s election is just likely to be the next installment in the series of disappointing results since 2003 as the UUP move further and further away from the centre.
People may seem wisdom after next year’s election and do what needs to be done. (Ringland for Leader?) – but then that could just be hopeless naivete on my part.
If you do go and join Alliance, best of luck to you.
I have come to the conclusion the the Uup are creating a single unionist party in as much as they (the Uup) will in theory still exist but they will receive so few votes the unionist voteing bloc shall be as one, sneaky buggers.
voting, if i do not correct myself i shall not learn.
How interesting that you bring up the NIWC as I have thought in the past that it bears comparison with the NUM and Alliance. For what is not generally grasped is that the WC evolved within months from women activists from across the board aorund 1996, aggrieved because a blueprint for the future of NI was being determined with very little input from women.
I attended a series of meetings in the Ulster Peoples College (where Bronagh was Director,geddit?) and have vivid memories of men of all descriptions from political parties who came to speak to the group before it was a pol party.But they just didnt get it.
I saw at the time that the wm group-WC was like how the f NUM spawned the APNI and that each had a moral legitimacy. But I left the group when it became a pol party (couldn’t belong to 2 pol parties,could I). I have no regrets,made the right choice.
I agree with you some of the most surprising people have strong feelings against the NIWC – but I am not one of them.
It was a brave attempt and served a purpose.
NUM is Scargill’s crowd, Mineworkers Union, who lost out to some guy in the electronic sector, correct?
comradS
“……I have a low tolerance level for dip shits. But why don’t you go and jerk off some more……..”
And would you and fellow travelers not just love that !
In your face sunshine : we have not gone away you know and not going to either!
Tactics and strategy adapted to the changed circumstances we brought about, but the goals remain the very same.
Hearts & minds etc
“…..I have a low tolerance level for dip shits……”
Ours is very high actually….. it was one of the pre-requisites all republicans had to develop for negotiating with unionism !
When that senior Orange Order grade a idiot, in an exercise of crass stupidity unrivaled in modern European politics, told British Prime Minister Tony Blair, a man who then held enough power to start an International war and who also had the personal choice to spend or withhold billions of pounds in Northern Ireland, that Blair’s wife…..”was nothing other than a painted jezebel’ ect… that was put down to ‘backwoods men’
We were told that they did not speak for Unionism and especially those cultured, tolerant types in the Alliance always talking of outreach…..yet here we are with
“…..I have a low tolerance level for dip shits……”
For goodness sake, is there not anyone in Alliance with enough nonuse to realize that this is the internet age, that this is not something on a card on the notice board of the local unionist post office, but an open post going out there Internationally and irrevocably for all to see.?
Who is handling Alliance PR….the village idiot?
My problem comradStalin is not with you, all parties have their, shall we say ‘characters’ it is that regular Alliance posters like….. ‘granni trix’…… who seem to have some appreciation of party image, are prepared to allow a person or persona identified with the party to carry on in this vein.
So speaks one……so speaks all Alliance?
While your views remain uncontradictid from other Alliance sources in sufficient quantity and quality to prove otherwise, this is but more of the taig baiting and disrespect that is a prominent feature of one of the two larger unionist parties and a more low key but never the less prevalent trait of the other.
I expected different from Alliance….. not any more….live and learn I suppose.
comradS…..I refer to our last ‘exchange’ or rather more aptly in the light of the foregoing, spate of cross postings on the thread…Parading, The Hillsborough etc, on Sept 30th, @ 12.47AM, @ 9.22AM, @ 7.27 PM etc
I have already said that I also write and respond when serious on slugger for a larger slugger readership than I cross swords with in these postings and for a wider International audience. I am content to allow that audience to be the jury on that and the current thread postings as to how sincere Alliance members are about engaging in real exchange of views and upholding it’s much expoused values!
I would also suggest that the purpose of the Sept 30th, @ 12.47AM, @ 9.22AM, @ 7.27 PM etc was not about communication and just more of the taig bating I referred to !
I have just learned who number 2 and 3 were on the selection list – in no way could those two individuals be considered as a hardening of the Association – probably quite the opposite
Therefore anyone saying this is a purge of liberals is barking up the wrong tree – that is really not the story here
The point, John, is that the other two haven’t a hope in hell of being elected; whereas Bradshaw could have taken the seat from McGimpsey.
Hence McGimpsey instructed his supporters to vote Finlay second.
Sorry. The NUM I refer to stands for “The New Ulster Movement”, (1969) intended as a cross comm. ginger group. It was lead by Brian Walker a methodist and other peacey types.I have read that it gathered up 10,000-30-signatures for peace. It has no relationship with the trade unions.
Granni
This quip is over ten years old and came from a northerner talking part in a Southern cultural event and came from general discussion afterwards about Northern politics. His take on unionism….
The UUP is the fur coat and landed estates unionism now reduced to oxfam shops and farms,
The DUP is the sunday suit and overalls back street unionism who have taken to wearing suits for the rest of the week as well,
The Alliance unionism is for dup who are upgrading or uup who have left but cannot kick the habit and have no place else to go.
Incidently he was also a protestant as opposed to physical force republicanism as he was to obstructionist unionism !
He also voted person rather than party on the merits of the person standing.
Jesus Christ, I post a three line response and get a 2000 word missive back from you. You seriously need to find something else to do with your time.
Ever hear the advice ….’when you find yourself in a hole stop digging’ ?
Bob
or maybe she could have split the vote and cost the seat.
However it is up to individual candidates to work their own constituencies and win them over – that is how the game works in every party.
The point I was making was there are a lot of comments on this thread putting two and two together and not getting 4. There are also desperation comments from UUP voters thinking they no longer have a home.
All that is nonsense – Based on who they preferred Paula’s deselection is not an indication of some concerted purge against liberals and modernisers.
or maybe she could have split the vote and cost the seat.
If she’d been selected as #2, the more likely possibilty (assuming that people transferred according to party loyalties) is that she might have gained the seat at the expense of McGimpsey. Relatively unlikely IMO, but McGimpsey will have sought to eliminate that risk.
Dont worry guys tom elliot will step in here and show real leadership by saying we cant continue to have a bunch of old men standing at assembly elections…..Wont he????
Nope. Tom Elliott and others within unionism think that the party was at it’s strongest when Jim Molyneaux was in control and grey old men polled well by doing bugger all.
Again I tend to agree…..and let me say that there is not much difference between your position, mine or Granni Trixies. Just degrees of emphasis and nuance.
And I am of course an interested observer not a party member.
When I spoke of “internal debate” I did not envisage some great conference, more the informality as displayed here.
A point worth considering is that the people most mentioned here are individuals..not a group. And the reaction to each individual would be different.
Ringland WOULD be a catch….although perhaps for a sportsman (as Granni Trixie observes) is not exactly a team player. Parsley would only be a catch in terms of his membership subscription and the degree of insights which youve probably correctly observed…….but as a candidate he is damaged goods……and I think it would take him ten years to regain the trust he squandered.
Close observation over decades of local politicians has convinced me that they are closer to each other accross party lines..than they often are to their own members. To a greater or lesser extent ALL party leaderships regard the membership as slightly inconvenient.
The point Im making (and its academic) is that the public stance of ANY party will always be that we made no concessions ..we made no offers……but realpolitick is different.
For example if John McCallister decided to defect….not only has he shown himself to be capable……but he would be a bigger vote winner for AP than David Griffin (530 votes). Regardless of whether there was an actual offer to McCallister…the AP would be foolish not to use him.
The offer would be implied.
Again this is academic.
But let me emphasise that I believe Elliotts UUP will not suffer any defections by SELECTED candidates such as McCrea before the Assembly Election.
More likely the defectors (if any) will jump ship after de-selection (Bradshaw for example) or after the Assembly Election.
To minimise damage its in Elliotts interest to weed them out now.
I know that ALL MLAs claim they are representatives not delegates but the fact is that they are elected primarily on party ticket.
For all my life I have resented that people leave parties and hold on to their seats. THere is a hypocrisy in all parties about calling for by-elections when the other side does it.