Slugger O'Toole

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Photograph of the Day – Seriously though, where is the respect?

Sat 11 September 2010, 9:01am

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Comments (47)

  1. chewnicked (profile) says:

    It looks like its getting the respect it deserves!

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  2. HeinzGuderian (profile) says:

    Stroll past the City Hall mate……….take a few photo’s of the flag flying prudly there !!!! :-)

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  3. My name is mud

    It’s a piece of cloth, for heaven’s sake. Don’t worship it. It’s a disposable commodity.

    Meanwhile, in the world of commerce, the usually- and appropriately-distressed Union Flag (yeah: respec’ — I gave it capital letters) has never been so popular for furnishings et al. A prime reason for that is the (rival) Stars-and-Stripes has entrenched rights in the US legal Code (titles 4 and 36), which lay down how the flag can be shown, used and not used, and how it can be disposed of with appropriate dignity. All of which ensures that elsewhere it is symbolically burned with remarkable frequency.

    Half the bars I (occasionally) frequent in the tri-State region seem to display a small hardwood box containing a carefully-folded flag with an inscribed plaque. Almost inevitably, it flew for a few hours over the 9/11 site.

    Similarly, there’s the small fragment of the old Lansdowne Road turf decaying on the Irish Club wall, here in London. Now that is worth the reverence.

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  4. Alan Maskey black spot says:

    http://shop.ebay.co.uk/i.html?_nkw=door+mat&_sacat=0&_odkw=dor+mat&_osacat=0&_trksid=p3286.c0.m270.l1313

    Search for “door mat” on ebay.co.uk and Union flags come up quite a lot. Notihng more specific just door mat.
    In the good old days, we’d go to the Orange fields after the Orangies had left to collect their flags to burn them.
    All armies have certain protocols concerning flags and anyone who did square bashing would know all about them. Most Orange piss pots do not.

    The actual Union Flag is regularly insulted by those who never shut up proclaimning their allegience to it. Untrained, untutored, unwashed thugs.

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  5. magnus says:

    Glad you came down from the rooftops Moochin. You had us all worried for a while.Your photographs will get better as you become more and more proficient.

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  6. Billy says:

    Would have been better if you’d waited for a dog to shit on it, Moochin.

    :-)

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  7. Billy says:

    Malcolm wrote:

    “It’s a piece of cloth, for heaven’s sake. Don’t worship it. It’s a disposable commodity.”

    ———————————————-

    Now, Malcolm, don’t go undermining all that Heinz has left to cling to..well, that and a made up language of north antrim slang.

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  8. Greenflag says:

    It may be a piece of cloth but it’s also a symbol of a nation/nations and is therefore to be respected . When ignorant loyalists burn Irish tricolours as part of their July 12 th festivities they do so in the knowledge that the other side will be suitably offended . Arson attacks on Orange halls or vandalism against RC Churches and schools are ‘related ‘ hate crimes .

    The picture above did bring back a memory of the one time I did ‘disrespect ‘ the Union Jack unintentionally I might add . As a teenager many moons ago I worked a summer job in London in the West End not far from Berkely Square .One of my duties was to raise both the US and Union flags each morning above the entrance . This I did from an overhang balcony above the main entrance doors . I had not been informed of any protocol in the matter of flag raising and thus just did the business quickly with little thought . The street was normally deserted 7.00am .

    One particular morning I saw ole Stan an employee of many years and a survivor of WW2 and the Blitz meandering towards the ‘tradesmans’ entrance . Stan never said much being from somewhere wet and damp east of Colchester . He was a small dapper man with brylcreamed hair brushed back to the nape of his neck .An ‘english’ culchie who had been domiciled a while in London and I suspect he did’nt approve of the fast changing mores of the metropolis. He looked up at me for a moment and as I shouted a good mornin Stan he disappeared into the entrance with not a word ..

    About 10.00am I was called to the front desk by Mr L the boss and Dublin man who told me that one of the employees had made a complaint about my disrespecting the flag.

    ‘What’ was my perplexed reply ?

    ‘Stan says you were seen raising the Stars and Stripes first before the Union Jack .’ Is that true ?

    ‘I don’t remember -sure they’re just flags-does it matter ‘?

    I actually had been raising them for the previous two weeks in any order whichever came first .

    ‘Did’nt they tell you what the flag raising protocol was ?

    said Mr L .

    No they did’nt . I replied .

    ‘Well in future the Union Jack is raised first and then the Stars and Stripes – you won’t forget that now will you ” ?

    I did’nt .

    A few days later ole Stan was again meandering up the street and looked up at the opportune moment as I was about to raise the coloured cloth . As he saw the Union Jack being raised first he actually smiled and gave a cheery wave and then disappeared into the tradesman’s entrance .

    By the end of the summer I learned that Stan’s wife was killed in the Blitz and that his twin brother died at Dunkirk .

    Respect .

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  9. Alan Maskey black spot says:

    Interesting story, appropriately named Gflag. Interesting the hotel employees knew fuck all about it. I have been in places and have remarked to high politicians on the order of flags and they knew nothing. Dumbos. Interesting too how old Stan indirectly complained.
    As regards your other points that old lullaby Take it down from the mast would imply Republicans do care about flags and of course passing the flag, beret and gloves of the expendable pawn on to the relatrives. Historically, of course, capturing the standard or flag was a big deal and Stalin’s crew had a big bonfire in 1945 in Moscow with all their captured standards. We can also remember when the Brits retook the Malvinas how important it was to get the Joly roger up. And our own dear Provos’ proudest boast is the Apron does not fly over Newry or Derry centres of power (sic).
    Dear old Alec made sure to keep the apron in his mayoral room to show he liked Prods.
    So yes, flags do matter. And Unionist yobos who treat their flag like that are more yobo than Unionist. The same applies with the untrained and unwashed rabble on the other side.
    One of the greatest and proudest Republican legacies is the inability to march. This goes all the way back to Mick the Traitor Collins. When the Brits marched out of Dublin Castle and Beggar’s Bush, the Staters marched in, no two of them in tandem. I would say the departing Brits had a good laugh on the ferry back. Some of the PIRA guards of honour would have been kicked out of the Boy Scouts for their spasticity.
    The Orange bands, in their bellboy uniforms, seem to be a bit better. But that is all they seem to do: march and play out of key music.
    Anyway, good comment GF.

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  10. For all my cynicism (see above), I see that I’ve got tracks 8 and 10 from Johnny Cash’s Patriot album on this here iPod.

    They are The Ballad of Ira Hayes and Ragged Old Flag. Two sides of the same coin.

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  11. slappymcgroundout (profile) black spot says:

    “Mick the Traitor Collins”

    239,193 + 247,226 > 133,864

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  12. joeCanuck says:

    It’s a piece of cloth, for heaven’s sake.

    Yes Malcolm, just like money is only a piece of paper.

    I’m not a flag waver of any sort myself, but a national flag, just like money, is a powerful symbol to some.

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  13. McKavanaghs (profile) says:

    I dont suppose anyone, maybe other than Moochin, has noticed it lies at the feet of some UVF graffiti … is there symbolism in that?

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  14. Mr E Mann says:

    Looks like a G-string. Surely no self-respecting NI Prod girl would have dropped it against that wall. A lot of girls in the remaining British garrison?

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  15. Munsterview (profile) black spot says:

    Died while head of the IRB……… never pass up an insult oppertunitty to annoy a Nationalist !

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  16. Pippakin says:

    In times of stress a flag can mean stubborn resistance and survival. In WW2 people were encouraged to hang a Union Flag out of the windows of their damaged homes. In republican areas the Irish Flag flies in defiance and, oddly enough, in loyalist areas the Union Flag flies in exactly the same defiance.

    In more peaceful times the flag is waved by supporters at football matches and other sporting events. I wonder what happens to it when the game is over and they all go home. Rubbish bin anyone.

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  17. joeCanuck says:

    Is there a market for disposable paper flags for one-off events?

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  18. Pippakin says:

    joe

    If there is I imagine it has already been covered! lol.

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  19. But money, even second- and third-hand is (with rare exceptions) a negotiable commodity. A soiled flag is just a rag — unless you want to pay good money for its associations: the Jack from HMS Spartiate, the rearguard of Nelson’s line-of-battle at Trafalgar, sold for £384,000 in 1998.

    The flag in Moochin’s telling shot is valueless, and therefore discarded.

    Anyway, thanks to all for the input: you provided me some mental exercise, thus further postponing the Alzheimer’s.

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  20. belfastjj (profile) says:

    I knew wouldn’t be long before the Protestant commuity would once again featured !!

    Calling on Slugger to stop this basis !! Respect our Community !!

    You have to ask why MP didn’t walk to the end of Madrid street and share this picture of the Former PSNI station ?

    http://politicsni.wordpress.com/?attachment_id=312

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  21. joeCanuck says:

    Some people can be so boring with continual sniping.

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  22. HeinzGuderian (profile) says:

    Our nat/rep chums have more respect for ‘their’ flag………………..they draped Bomber Chesney,suicides,and pathological murderers in theirs !!!

    Do us a wee pic,Moochy ?? :-)

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  23. Mark McGregor says:

    You do realise that is was only you that linked a flag in the gutter with the ‘protestant community’

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  24. RepublicanStones (profile) says:

    Flags should be hoisted after sunrise and lowered before sunset.

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  25. joeCanuck says:

    Yes, but usually only in “normal” countries.

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  26. downpatrick says:

    ONLY FLAGS THAT SHOULD BE FLYING IN ULSTER THESE DAYS ARE THE COUNTY DOWN FLAG ABU AN DUN DOWN 4ALL IRELAND 2010

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  27. Gendjinn says:

    So few words and yet incorrect on two counts.

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  28. Secret Squirrel (profile) says:

    And who’s used conflicting coordinating conjunctions ?

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  29. belfastjj (profile) says:

    Mark are you for real !!

    If he’s taking about respect what about respect for law and order http://politicsni.wordpress.com/?attachment_id=312 at the other end of the street ???????????????????????????????

    But its not, its a continuation of Protestant community bashing !!

    Calling on Slugger to stop this basis !! Respect our Community !!

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  30. slappymcgroundout (profile) black spot says:

    To add to my prior:

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r2rShV4aqGQ

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  31. billy says:

    Nice work, Moochin.

    The butcher’s apron in it’s rightful place.

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  32. billy says:

    Could Mick or somone explain to me why they think the utterly tedious ‘tweetings’ by Mallie are displayed to us all the time?

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  33. joeCanuck says:

    Billy,

    It would seem that the only reason you hang around here is that Mick is kind enough to allow your continual utterly tedious moping.
    It isn’t compulsory to get your knickers in a twist and if you don’t like Eamonn Mallie’s tweets, don’t read them.

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  34. More to the point, Mallie is having a small tweeting spat with Iain Dale.

    Dale has a habit of slipping in unfortunate expressions, particluarly those with a vague, ineffable Hibernophobe stereotyping. When one complains (as I did over his use of “patsy”, and Mallie did over “Top of the morning”) the response is invariably four-lettered abuse.

    Dale frequently has as many problems with use of language as he does in formulating credible opinions (especially ones not dictated to him by Tory HQ).

    So, I stand with Mallie. For the time being.

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  35. Pod says:

    Probably because there’s a large gate erected blocking the short strand off from the rest of east belfast in the middle of madrid street

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  36. Mainland Ulsterman says:

    I agree with JoeCanuck.

    Isn’t the flag – esp Union Flag – looking tattered / in the gutter something of a cliche after 30 odd years of it? What fantastic insight are we supposed to get from the picture, other than flags can fall on the ground, it rains a lot in Northern Ireland – and that some people in Northern Ireland don’t live up to what we all signed up to in 98 about respecting each other’s nationality (see many of the other posts on this thread). All said many times …

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  37. belfastjj (profile) says:

    Or he’s just scared ?? or he wants to concentrate on running the Protestant community in East Belfast down ?

    !! Respect our Community !!

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  38. joeCanuck says:

    belfastjj,

    Respect isn’t just given; it has to be earned. You obviously don’t respect MP and that’s your business. I don’t respect your never ending whinging.
    My mental picture of MP is that he lives in E.Belfast, walks to and from work with his camera and snaps as he goes along. That’s why a lot of his pics are from E.Belfast. The other ones, and there are lots of them despite what your imagination tells you, he probably takes at the weekends.

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  39. I have to find a twinge here.

    The East Belfast “community” (now, there’s an overused word), regardless of its denominational attachment, is decent working-class. At least the bit I think we’re defining here.

    It hasn’t long to go. As with all cohesive localities, the powers-that-be are finding ways to destroy an inconvenient entity. The same will come, in due course, to the west of the city, to Lurgan, to Newry, to the Bogside in Derry. Such localities become ,,, how shall I say? … “inconvenient”. The official term involves that weasel-word “redevelopment”. The next generation is moved on, moved out. All that is left are memories.

    Believe me. My little slum-town (the dafty incomers paid a couple of hundred for a fisherman’s two-up, two-down cottage) now features in the glossy property supplements. Many rising “locals” (a dismissive term) survive on seasonal jobs.

    Take a shufty (slang acquired from parent: ex-military, North Africa, circa 1942) at that survey of “economic resilience” which appeared last week on the BBC news website. The more I look at it, the more it defines the social divisions of England.

    I make a point of catching Moochin Photoman’s daily input onto Slugger. One day, after my time, it will be history, and deserving of respect.

    Is this the longest thread ever provoked by one of his images? If so: think on.

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  40. Comrade_Trotsky (profile) says:

    True that!

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  41. Secret Squirrel (profile) says:

    The Antrim girlies are still on for the Junior Camogie championship. :)

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  42. Pod says:

    Why would he be “scared” BJJ???

    I have looked through MP’s pictures as a result of his links on here and there seems to be quite a few taken in and around the Short Strand.

    I think it’s worrying that you are using two good communities with lots of positive things going on in them as a tool to engage in tit for tat nonsense with a photographer who is clearly marking things of note in the area in which he lives.

    Nothing really shocking about that; I think it past time you started showing some respect to the community yourself and to artistic exrpression!!

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  43. belfastjj (profile) says:

    POD i think what you’re trying to say is – all the photos were taken on the Protestant side of the community !!

    “I’m using” lol thats a laugh only one person using one Community and it ain’t me !!

    See POD i wouldn’t have a problem if MP was clearly marking things of note on both side of the area in which he lives – but the bottom line is he isn’t.

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  44. billy says:

    Whinge! Whinge!

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  45. Rory Carr says:

    In the town of Maldon in Essex last week I spotted a chair for sale outside a shop on the High Street which was upholstered in Union Flag cloth. Herself remarked that, what with my Irish Republican sympathies and occasional Guinness-induced flatulence, it might be an ideal St Patrick’s Day present upon which my derriéire might find restul ease.

    Naturally I was appalled.

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  46. Pod says:

    No, not all of the photos were taken on “the protestant side” (whatever that means!)

    Look at his site when you click on the photos, there’s photos from all over the place.

    Personally I think MP marks things of note across the city, do u think he has to do this in some sort of mathematical, cross-community ratio?

    Returning to the issue of respect, what do you make of the fact at the core of the photo, that the flag has been allowed to fall onto the dirty, puddled street?

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  47. billy says:

    So, is Slugger going to have the scoop on the Wright findings – you know, seeing as the blogosphere is at the…ahem…cutting edge of new journalism?

    Snigger…

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