One small region, slightly damaged, several careless owners…
Mary Dejevsky has written a piece for the Belfast Telegraph that will go down well in some quarters and not so well in others. She is suggesting that it is time that the British government off-load Northern Ireland by one of several routes: including independence, secession or to offer to sell it to the Republic of Ireland.
Her objection handling is quite interesting, for what it ignores as much as what she deals with, like religion. There is no mention of ‘Britishness’ as an issue at all. In contrast (and perhaps scarily for those who will challenge her logic) she goes even further and suggests Irish unity:
“…would make cultural, demographic, and geographic sense. At once, the security of Britain and Ireland would be enhanced. The biggest bonus of all, though, would be that relations between Britain and Ireland, as sovereign states, would become normal in a way they have never been in recent times.”
This is unlikely to prompt a reasoned debate in Belfast. But the reference to the savings to the British exchequer suggest that it is an argument that isn’t aimed at audiences here at all, anyway. Or if it is, maybe it is as much a warning about the reality of cuts as anything else.
But politically, if they are being asked to take the lead, that is what should scare unionists…
I have an idea. In the film ‘The Day After Tomorrow’, all the dodgy weather around the globe starts mass evacuations, and I think I remember it mentioning people in Belfast/Banbridge being evacuated down south because of a tidal wave/temperature drop or something off the Antrim coast area (can’t really recall to be honest).
Anyway, all the Brit Govt has to do is engineer some bogus crisis/natural disaster and start the ‘evacuation’. Then when all the people in the six counties have been displaced across the border they’ll be forced to share and integrate.
As for the deserted six counties, claim a nuclear accident has flooded the place with radiation and it can’t be inhabited for 100 years. Or, if they’re really feeling sly, just nuke the place.
Who says 6 into 26 doesn’t go?
Pat Penguin
ah but your islands are surrounded by seas of oil, yes?
That’s correct Wild Turkey. I’m currently involved in negotiations with the Argentine mainland regarding drilling rights.
Unfortunately the Argentinians aren’t interested in my windswept hell-hole; so I’m offering the islands only for a quick sale.
The natives, eh? Good luck with that argument
This piece by Mary Dejevsky certainly seems as no more than an exercise by that great female columnist stereotype, Polly Filla, trotted out as a piece of space stuffing on a day when she couldn’t come up with anything insightful.
But while her solutions to the tedium of British citizens having to endure the never-ending litany of grim news from Northern Ireland are patently ridiculous she does at least draw attention once again that the simple fact that most Britons really do wish that Northern Ireland would simply go away, that it is foreign, nothing to do with “us”, let Ireland deal with it, we don’t want you anymore – in fact we never did, just bugger off!
While Nationalists will be easy enough with this attitude saying, “Well, that’s what we’ve been telling you for ages,” I imagine that Unionists will be less than happy hearing this same sentiment (which they know in their hearts to be true) repeated once again.
Of course Dicey was never one for contradicting himself here Dub. He angrily disagreed with Parliament passing an Act giving home rule to the free state. He believed that Parliament had no power to do such a thing.
socaire: The UK is a state made up of several COUNTRIES and bits of countries
Do you think your assertions carry more weight than the EU? The UK is a country – though that doesn’t matter, since *you* first used the term ‘country’ in this discussion, not me. My original point only depended on the UK being an entity with recognised boundaries. I note you have just acknowledged that it is! The GFA will help to point out where the boundaries are.
As for your second point, the mope: like many people I self-censor in mixed company to avoid giving offence. However, I have as much of a right to use an implicit British frame of reference as you have to use an implicit Nationalist frame of reference. If I was ever going to abandon that right, I wouldn’t do it on a debate forum like Slugger. I am sure we will both be able to cope with the fallout.
Socaire,
The UK and the EU are entirely different political institutions.
England, Northern Ireland, Scotland and Wales use the same currency; is treated as a single unitary state by the EU, the UN – where it is one of five permanent members of the security council – the World Trade Organisation, the G8 and NATO, among others; issues passports to its citizenry; has the same constitutional monarchy as head of state; has a centralised supreme legislative authority in the guise of Westminster which could – if it so wished – abolish devolved government administrations, can legislate on reserved powers which effect all parts of the UK and consists of members drawn from all four constituent countries; share the same postal service; and has a combined defence force.
Sounds a bit like other countries – and not the EU – to me…
Imperialism, or at least what is wrong with it, is one nation ruling over others with a dictat from the centre. As Barroso puts it in comparison to the EU,
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c2Ralocq9uE
The problem of imperialism is therefore one of lack of consent. A united Ireland is therefore more imperialist than the present constitutional status, since presently a greater number consent to the state they are living in than would be the case if there were a united Ireland.
It’s a self contradiction though. Like saying that in a state where >50% vote to kill a proportion of it’s own citizens, or deny them a vote, has a legitimate democratic mandate for doing so. The act itself is a negation of the democracy. In the terms of the enlightenment writers it would be a breach of the social contract.
I would accord Great Britain the right to “secede” from the present UK as it were, but it has no right to give Northern Ireland to the Republic of Ireland without the consent of Northern Ireland, just as a man may divorce his wife, but has no right to sell or gift her to a new husband without her consent. The contract is two sided. A state does not own it’s citizens, as a man owns inanimate property, it has a two sided contract with it’s citizens. The rights to physical land boundaries itself flows from the consent of the will of those constituent on it. This is different from the legal land ownership. If the UK government owned the land of Northern Ireland it could sell it to the Republic of Ireland government, but it could not sell the right to make laws upon a democratic basis within those boundaries.
If I may add to your point it is that Westminster may also legislate over devolved matters, indeed she has already done so sometimes without consulting the devolved civil servants, the Terrorism Act for example which impinges on Scots law. And importantly the UK could vote to leave the EU whilst Scotland could vote to leave the UK but would need a majority in the house of commons to be able to do so.
All Scotland has is the promise from Thatcher down that the settled will of the Scottish people would not be ignored balanced against the real power of what is effectively a foreign parliament.
OUR WEE COUNTRY.NORTHERN IRELAND 1 SLOVENIA 0, STAND UP FPR THE ULSTERMEN.
FOR
Sidewinder
You cannot have it both ways, you live in a constitutional monarchy, you are not a citizen, you are a subject and as such De Jura the Queens property every bit as much as one of her corgies !
OK guys, I admit I’m wrong. I don’t live on mainland Ireland. I live on offshore Uk.
You have the rights of the conqueror. You have the rights of superior force. Enjoy!
Kinda dispells the myth that all yanks are thick and all English are very worldly. Mentioning Kate Thornton reminds me painfully of present xtra factor (I have no choice but to watch it what with the missus and the weans) presenter Konnie Huq who was absolutely bewildered, totally dumbstruck as to why she had these otherwise ordinary white people attacking her as she ran through the streets of London with the olympic torch.
From what the experts tell us Ireland and Scotland are saveable but the English education system is effed. I mean isn’t Tibet supposed to be where Richard Gere retired to.
@Munsterview,
Not sure if you are entirely serious, however the social contractarian view applies to constitutional monarchies.
You might actually wish to find out what the Battle of the Boyne was actually primarily about. tip: it wasn’t primarily about repressing Roman Catholics.
I’d reckon a quarter million minimum would start moving into the mainland.
Entschuldigen Sie bitte, sprechen Sie Ulster-Scots?
“….Not sure if you are entirely serious, however the social contractarian view applies to constitutional monarchies…..”
In the spirit of understanding and outreach, why not explain these concepts in some detail. I for one would be most interested in reading your take on it.
As I have previously written regarding the Boyne, the Pope and King William were on the same side on that one. The Pope……
a) fully supported King William politically as he the Pope was also a Ruler of a State head with political priorities……. which as in the case of most Popes before and later, got priority over spiritual issues.
b) send a considerable financial sum to King William to prosecute the war
c ) send him a corps of drummers that performed in the battle of the Boyne and stayed on with the Williamite forces afterwards……. there is in fact a good argument to be made that that the lambeg drums are similar to the Big Italian war drums of the same period…… so how about a wee prayer for the Pope before banging off in future
d) publicly prayed for Williams victory before hand,
e) rejoiced at the news of the victory and had bells rung in all the Roman churches in celebration
f) ordered solemn High Masses sung in celebration all through Western Christendom.
Comments welcome!
It can be offered as much as you like, but until there is a demonstrable desire in Ireland to take Northern Ireland into its state, NI will remain part of the UK.
Nobody biting then.Best start in many a year. all praise be to Allal.Orr Wee COUNTRY.