“The Cardinal said that he knew that the priest was a very bad man…”
The Northern Ireland Police Ombudsman, Al Hutchison, has published the findings of his “investigation into how the Royal Ulster Constabulary (RUC) dealt with their suspicions that a Catholic priest was allegedly involved in the bombing of Claudy in County Londonderry on 31 July 1972, in which nine people were killed and more than 30 others were injured.” The full report is available here [pdf file]. BBC report here. From the Police Ombudsman’s statement
The Police Ombudsman’s Office has confirmed that following the bombing police held extensive Intelligence and other material, which they received from a variety of sources, from which they concluded that the priest was the IRA’s Director of Operations in South Derry and was alleged to have been directly involved in the bombings and other terrorist incidents.
The Police Ombudsman has concluded that this Intelligence picture should have led police to pursue further investigative opportunities, which could either have implicated the priest in the bombings or eliminated him from their enquiry.
The Police Ombudsman investigators spoke to a former Special Branch detective, who said that he had wanted to arrest Father Chesney in the months after the bombing but that this had been refused by the Assistant Chief Constable Special Branch , who had advised that ‘matters are in hand’.
The Police Ombudsman’s investigators have examined correspondence, in which the ACC wrote to the NIO on 30 November 1972 saying that he had been considering “what action, if any, could be taken to render harmless a dangerous priest, Father Chesney..’ and suggesting that ‘our masters may find it possible to bring the subject into any conversations they may be having with the Cardinal or Bishops at some future date…..”
A NIO official wrote back to the RUC on 6 December 1972, saying that the Secretary of State had held a meeting with the Cardinal the previous day, noting “You will be relieved to hear the Secretary of State saw the Cardinal privately on 5 December and gave him a full account of his disgust at Chesney’s behaviour. The Cardinal said that he knew that the priest was a very bad man and would see what could be done. The Cardinal mentioned the possibility of transferring him to Donegal…..”
This correspondence was then circulated to a number of senior police officers, including the then Chief Constable, Sir Graham Shillington, who noted: “Seen. I would prefer a transfer to Tipperary” .
An entry in Cardinal Conway’s diary for 5 December 1972 confirms that the meeting with the Secretary of State took place. It records that he had a “rather disturbing tete-a-tete at the end about C”.
An additional entry in the Cardinal’s diary on 4 February 1973 refers to a private conversation between the two men, during which the matter had been discussed again. The Cardinal recorded that he had spoken to the priest’s ‘superior’ and that “The Superior however had given him orders to stay where he was on sick leave until further notice. “
Father Chesney was subsequently appointed to a parish in County Donegal in late 1973. He was never again appointed to a parish in Northern Ireland. Church records indicate that when questioned by his superiors he denied involvement in terrorist activity. As a result of the course of action police had taken, his denial was never tested. He died in 1980.
And from his ‘Conclusions’
Mr Hutchinson said that he accepted that the decisions made by those referred to in this Statement must be considered in the context of the time.
“I accept that 1972 was one of the worst years of the Troubles and that the arrest of a priest might well have aggravated the security situation. Equally, I consider that the police failure to investigate someone they suspected of involvement in acts of terrorism could, in itself, have had serious consequences.
In the absence of explanation the actions of the senior RUC officers, in seeking and accepting the Government’s assistance in dealing with the problem of Father Chesney’s alleged wrong doing , was by definition a collusive act.
However, collusion may or may not involve criminality. My role in this matter as Police Ombudsman is to investigate police criminality or misconduct. The key police decision makers referred to in this Statement are deceased. Had they been alive today their actions would have demanded explanation which would have been the subject of further investigation,” he said.
As regards the role of Church and State officials, Mr Hutchinson said that his investigation found no evidence of criminal intent on the part of any Government Minister or official or on the part of any official of the Catholic Church.
Mr Hutchinson went on to say , “The morality or ‘rightness’ of the decision taken by the Government and the Catholic Church in agreeing to the RUC request is another matter entirely and requires further public debate. Placing this information in the public domain in a transparent manner enables that debate to take place.”
Adds The Guardian has an updating blog on the report.
Update Statement by NI Secretary of State, Owen Paterson.
The PSNI have expressed their regret that opportunities to arrest and interview all of the suspects were not taken in 1972.
For my part, on behalf of the Government, I am profoundly sorry that Father Chesney was not properly investigated for his suspected involvement in this hideous crime, and that the victims and their families have been denied justice.
In the course of their investigations both the PSNI and the Police Ombudsman have conducted enquiries with the Department. I can confirm that the Department’s files have been extensively searched and that all relevant documents were provided to the Ombudsman.
The only document referring to discussions about Father Chesney is the letter of 6th December 1972 quoted in the Ombudsman’s report.
We acknowledge the finding of the Police Ombudsman that: ‘With regard to the role of the Catholic Church, when informed of the level of concerns others had about one of their priests, they challenged Fr Chesney about his alleged activities, which he denied. In the course of this enquiry the Police Ombudsman’s investigation found no evidence of any criminal intent on the part of any Church official’.
The Catholic Church did not engage in a cover-up of this matter.
As the Ombudsman finds in his statement today the Church was approached by the secretary of state at the instigation of senior members of the RUC.
Furthermore, the Church subsequently reported back to the secretary of state the outcome of its questioning of Fr Chesney into his alleged activities.
The actions of Cardinal Conway or any other Church authority did not prevent the possibility of future arrest and questioning of Fr Chesney.
Topic: Government, Society and Culture
Region: Northern Ireland
Noted !
Do you deny others the right to take a contrary view ?
What I did may have been tongue in cheek and I should perhaps resisted the opportunity to rattle a cage in passing….. but for believing Catholics there are issues raised intrinsic to their faith!
I have frequently set out here that I am a former member of SF, that in general I support the party and that in general I support the GFA and the concept of a United Ireland. In this regard, in as much as I have an agenda, it is out there for all to see.
I think not only is underhand for others to think they can run an agenda beneath the level of awareness but when they take three or four different aliases to so do and think that they have ‘pulled it off’ that is not respecting other posters and an insult to intelligence.
How has it been shown to be without foundation exactly
You answered this question for me.
are you seriously contending that this was not an IRA operation ?
As they never claimed it, who can tell? You want a conspiracy theory, I can only make them up.
REPUBLICAN CONSPIRACY THEORY
Dominic McGlinchey of Bellaghy was arrested in August 1971, at the age of 17, and interned without charge for ten months in the prison camps of Ballykelly and Long Kesh. (Wikipedia).
He thus was released in May or June 1972. The Claudy bombings were 31st July 1972. The people who gave the warnings were estimated as aged 13-17.
After his release, he was imprisoned again in 1973 on arms charges. He was well known for not submitting to PIRA authority and eventually formed INLA.
Thus we have someone who is mad enough to go on bombing expeditions on his own bat, and young and inexperienced enough for them to go disastrously wrong.
ARMED FORCES CONSPIRACY THEORY
In the film, the Battle of Algiers, Algerian insurgents start bombing the French military, and they respond by leave a bomb in the Kasbah and blaming it on the insurgents. All’s fair in love and war.
The purpose of the Claudy bombings was to quieten things down after Motorman by turning popular opinion against bombers of all hues by showing them to be dangerously incompetent.
So there you are: you will no doubt select the theory which suits your own prejudices.
ALAN MASKEY
It appears that you have a particular political agenda, and this is interfering with any rational investigation of what happened at Claduy. Would you be so kind as to tell us what this is? Who do you stand for and who do you stand against and why?
PaddyReilly: It looks like I am the third group of suspects there. However, I can easily be eliminated as I have a water tight alibi for the day. On that point, isn’t it odd Fr Chesney never rounded up a load of witnesses?
I think you may be onto something with the South Derry thing. Shortly before Dominic McG was martyed, I said to a friend: they are trying to blacken his name. He said, Domo’s name could not be blackened any more than it already is.
Still, if PIRA did not do it, they must have their own suspicions. Martin McG should tell us who he thinks did it (unless, like Gerry, he was never in the PIRA loop). I know from events in the 1970s and 1980s that PIRA do look into events that might impinge upon their “good” name.
The FRU are, as you imply, another candidate though, if so, it seems to have been a once off, unlike their Southern exploits.
It might be worthwhile checking an Phoblact’s obituary notices to see if Chesney got any of the usual guff.
As for me, I have no axe to grind. You will note, however, that the PIRA troll apologists veers off on what it means to be buried according to Catholicism. I would like to see the truth, to know who did Claudy and several other PIRA type own goals.
You are obviously scratching around at this so I wil let you and the trolls to it for now.
In this matter I have been very careful to confine my remarks to Fr. Chesney as a person and to in general terms defend the memory of what both I, those I knew up there and the last community that he served in Mallin as a good man.
I also served up a few home truths in the process about those times and what it was really like up there…… or as far as Unionists are concerned and to borrow a phase from Al Gore….. inconvenient truth.
One of the more positive things I see at the time of the Building of the Jenny Johnson was a senior Republican and an equally senior loyalist standing in a doorway out of the rain at 2AM in deep conversation. I watched from a car for a half hour without making contact, their body language was easy and they were comfortable with each other, there was a lot of talking and listening going on.
Both would be regarded as ‘hard men’ were there was respect and outreach . Some days later when alone with the Republican person I passed played the devils advocate and questioned the presence of this man in the area and got a lecture on the need to understand etc…… ironically traits that this person was not noted for in dealing with Unionist issues.
This is the nub of the problem……. most republican leaders and their community have made a journey in political awareness….. most of the loyalist community have not. Twenty years ago a a minister said to me, ” I fear for the future of these people, your side will leave jail with university degrees, they with enhanced porno collections! ”
This appears to be a major problem……. the same journey has not been made on the other side. Politicians are either the old school ‘Roaring Hannas ‘ or the Northern protestant equivalent of ‘”cute hoorism’ . Instead of working for the common good there is ‘lets see what Shinners got this week and how we can take it back next week’ or least make sure that it is spoiled for them.
I spend list night working through a chapter of a proposed Doctrinal Thesis that I was asked to comment on and stayed with it until 6AM. It was a surrealistic experience…… here I was reading on English Planter laws post the treaty of Limerick and what they were intended to do to the ‘ mere Irish’ and on my computer screen the same attitudes were being exchanged as part of a living reality.
Where else in Europe can you get the political attitudes of the early 1700′s as the guiding principles used to build a 21cen society. Yeats chided protestants and injuncted them to believe that they were no petty people. There seems to be every indication of the Northern element Becoming just that.
If is not only republicans and brits that are loosing patience, Southern C of I of all shades went to great lengths to distance themselves from Dromcree and the antics of the OO then and since. Indeed they say things that about ‘ these bloody people’ that a sinners would not dream of saying.
In this Fr. Chesney debate, I pointed out how a young C of I minister and then good friend of mine was treated by his own Church in this period….. how he was dealt with mirrored Fr James treatment…. yet all ignored this……. another inconvenient truth.
As an academic exercise I will give a week to slugger as soon as I can to prepare an essay on attitudes….. and how they changed or otherwise. It seems to me that we are talking at each other rather than with each other.
Since the Unionist side are dedicated to maintaining the fiction regarding their ‘security forces’ as the Germans are about their WW2 regular army…… ” that back then most of our guys were good ” …… I do not see how there can be any real debate as this flies in the face of most Catholic / Nationalist direct experience, my own included!
Alan
I have actually read parts of that book, and it is laughable. Even if a few of the conspiracies he puts forth are accurate the whole book is not worth reading, IMHO.
I read the chapter on all of the Irish traitors who were leading the Irish side form 1919-1921. A tantalizing intellecutal exercise for some, maybe, but largely ridiculous.
Munster
Your analysis is deeply flawed.
Yes our DUP politicians have nothing to offer other than the begging bowl.
I see no journey being made on the ‘ OTHE SIDE’ you all still live in the last centuary.
If it was Mad Dog, why wouldn’t his name have been bandied about much more much earlier and indeed much more recently by the authorities – why would the cops in particular have preferred the superficially less plausible Chesney ‘red herring’ to the more ‘obvious’ McGlinchey with a view to, forgive te phrase, burying the matter with as much pseudo-certainty and permanance as they could ? He’d be an easier corpse to ‘blacken’ than this apparently innocent bingo-daft cleric and would’ve partially tied things up for the families, at least partly.
Catholic burial rights incidentally ? Now who’s veering – and failing to steer anyone – off topic ?
By the way, if you’re so anti-provo – no harm in that per se – how come you’re so keen to let us all know how on-message you are – and have been for such a long time, if you’re to be believed – with their personnel and modus operandi ?
Sammy…..
None so blind etc.
This from Irish News, Irish Central and currently posted.
Cannot expect you to look it up of course the editor is a Catholic and a Nationalist and the Paper is Irish American that supported and facilitated the peace process ! He is even a democrat !
++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
Tony Blair has admitted he lied to prevent the collapse of the North’s peace process, in his new memoir “A Journey’ which launches today.
Blair said said he took “horrendous” chances and stretched the truth “past breaking point” as he sought to carve out a deal between unionists and nationalists who were often deadlocked on issues.
He also revealed a shocking incident with a leading Orangeman who described him as unfit to be prime minister because “my wife was a painted jezebel who claimed her allegiance to Rome”.
In his new autobiography Tony Blair has also stated that he developed very strong relationships with Sinn Féin leaders Gerry Adams and Martin McGuinness, and admitted he came to like them both greatly.
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++
“my wife was a painted jezebel who claimed her allegiance to Rome”.
Aside from the obvious discourtesy offered on the occasion, it takes a monumental stupidity and the self awareness of a dodo to offer a gratuitous insult like that to the most powerful figure in the political establishment .
It do however say there all there is to say on the matter of ‘ progressive political attitude ‘
Over recent years I have had more than a few sharp exchanges with Northern comrades regarding a lack of progress, but having experienced some of the attitudes of ‘the other side’ here on slugger, a few apologies on my part will be in order when we next meet up!
Paddy…..you too
Not that I would have any direct experience on these matters of course…. all parties please note….. but do anyone have any idea how much infra structure is needed for even one bombing never mind multiple bombings ?
Now we have a seventeen year old guy…….. what did he do, go to the local school and recruit a bunch of kids for the day ?…….. Yeah a priest doing the bombing……… and nuns possibly driving the getaway cars………and a bishop making up the mix ?
Pesky’s ….Alice through the looking glass world is one thing, however you are now coming close to ticking off all the boxes in that ideal Loyalist conspiracy that you referred to way back!
A little reality please !
http://www.maritime-index.com/details.php?id=5452
The Mouth from the South must not have made it into the elite. Technical details are in the book.
If it was Mad Dog, why wouldn’t his name have been bandied about much more much earlier and indeed much more recently by the authorities
It is a characteristic of policemen all the world over that when they have invested a considerable amount of time and energy barking up the wrong tree they will never graciously transfer to barking up the right one.
So in 1972 they never arrested Domo McG because they didn’t know his form. Instead they possibly wasted a lot of time ‘rounding up the usual suspects’ and formulating implausible theories about paedophile popes on sex-change mercy dashes. This became the accepted truth, to be propounded by anonymous letters and whispering campaigns.
Remind me how many years it took for anyone to act on the Guildford and Birmingham innocents. Even when they were freed Mr Plod of course had to release their signed statements as if they were reliable evidence.
The reality is, the witnesses stated that the people who gave the warning looked as if they were aged 13-17. The cars were stolen in Bellaghy, where McGlinchey lived: he was 17 and two months out of the Kesh.
This may only be the visible tip of the iceberg, but it’s all you have to work on.
PaddyR
Please do not forget that successive Southern Governments in general and Haughies Fianna Failure ones in particular instructed London, Washington and other Irish embassies not alone to decline assistance to the campaigns but to ‘spin’ against the various campaigns.
Once the Birmingham six were released they of course got the special ‘ meet the Taoiseach’ treatment and Haughy send them to his tailor to be fitted out in new suits. This is more of the rank hypocrisy that Newspapers will not touch or expose, how can they as they too were explicit in attempting to kill the campaigns! As for the RTE kiss arses doing anything on the matter…….. !
So beyond the superficial plausibility of that he was not in jail that day, may have been ‘active’ generally speaking and about the right age (assuming those sightings of the teens was/is reliable, that is), there’s nothing else which would put McGlinchey in the frame here ?
Answered August 31 11.08 p.m…… at least in so far as the area is concerned.
Here again is the relevant piece. Burnfoot is the Town. I cannot recall the parish it is in. It could be a pesky issue ! If it is still important, I suggest that you phone the post office in Burnfoot and ask them what parish they are in !
“…..Such is that respect that in order to commemorate his work with the young people of the area, a plaque adorns the wall of the Aileach Youth Club in Burnfoot stating that “This building was inspired by Fr. James J. Chesney” the plaque was hung four years after the priests death….”
And lived in Bellaghy, whence the vehicles that exploded were stolen and whither the bombers were returning.
Nothing like the hard evidence of ‘Fr Liam’ and his anonymous letters…
Domnic McGlicheys life has been picked over time and again. Given the nature of the INLA and all else that they were involved in that is now in the public arena, it is highly unlikely that this early period of Domnics life could have held such a major event without it becoming general knowledge in his IRA or INLA period.
PaddyR
The IRA has not claimed responsibility for the bombing : have the organization actually denied it and if so when?
If the IRA were not involved ( as I think they said ) then who else would have that quantity of explosives necessary for three car bombs laying around?
If any one ‘freelancing’ had inside knowledge and removed and used that volume of explosives without authorization, there would have been hell to pay, especially given the outcome. From what I have heard of how structures of that period operated and the attitudes of senior people West of the Bann and in Dublin, any such gross breach of IRA standing Army Orders would have brought an immediate and inevitable consequence.
it is highly unlikely that this early period of Domnics life could have held such a major event without it becoming general knowledge in his IRA or INLA period.
I don’t suppose it was something he wished to boast about. It may have been a major event for the people of Claudy, but for the bombers themselves it was just a morning’s work.
I seem to recall that the IRA denied responsibility for the attack at the time.
I doubt the British were involved in bombing Claudy. It happened on the morning of their action in Derry, they would have wanted to hi light the retaking of the city and use it as PR deterrent. Claudy took attention from them.
It could have been INLA, or the ‘independent’ IRA group, or Loyalists or even Chesney. HET needs to leave no stone unturned in their search for the murderers.
INLA was formed on the 8th December 1974: the Claudy bombings were 31st July 1972.
Though, as I have suggested, certain of the people who went on to found INLA were available to do the job.
I can only supply some of the possibilities: whether you choose the plausible or the implausible ones depends on how mad you are.
Alias will no doubt come on soon to prove that the IRA, INLA, and the Catholic Church are all agents of the British Government.
Despite assertions to the contrary, neither the IRA nor the British Army kept perfect control of their personnel. It was asserted of Robert Nairac (who was not in NI at the time):-
“Had he been an SAS member, he would not have been allowed to operate in the way he did. Before his death we had been very concerned at the lack of checks on his activities. No one seemed to know who his boss was, and he appeared to have been allowed to get out of control, deciding himself what tasks he would do.”
A Catholic majority town with no military connections would not have been a sensible Republican target. Therefore the bomber was either not a Republican, or not a sensible one: a 17 year old boy with stolen explosives fits the bill, and surprisingly also the eye-witness description of the presumed bombers.
PaddyR
I am just trying to follow a logic here. It was not a question of ‘wishing to boast’ the INLA had several internal splits and leadership heaves : McGlinchy was opposed by some of these and each side threw every accusation that they could make at each other. It would have surfaced by now!
While there was a few ‘semi detached’ or fully detached republicans around West Tyrone and Down at that period, they were very much individuals in outlook who for various reasons either did not come back into the IRA or when the initial flap was over in Derry, they soon again dropped out. In fact the grand plan prior to the balloon going up in Derry was to wind down the IRA leaving only around a well armed core of around a hundred for ‘fundraising’ etc.
Those who came back in from West of the Bann were to put it mildly, not encouraged to stay! Even after the Provos began to reorganize these people still stayed out and while they had various disagreements with the Sticks and Provos, collectively they had no great regard for each other either!
I remember one bit of a flap being caused by a youngfellow from the area coming into the Kesh convinced that he was acting under IRB orders…… those in charge of him could not be found !
So back again to the main problem……… at this stage I will accept the IRA denial prima faci.
Semi detached republicans coming together for a one off…… highly unlikely. A volunteer requires a focus and mindset : an ASU man or woman could not just come out on a ‘one off’ and go home especially having caused the consequences that the Claudy bombing did.
Fr James, I will take Rory O’Bradaigs word for what he said that James was in a holiday in Donegall when the bombing took place ( I wonder how long it will take before someone will make the claim that he did so because he knew what was going to happen and wanted an alibi! )
Dominic McGlichhy and a maverick group or one acting without orders……. highly unlikely for any no of reasons !
Just one more thing by way of a general observation on IRA mindsets, vols. learn early everything is on a ‘need to know’ basis only, as what they do not know cannot be kicked out of them at 3AM in a cell or some other such place where the rules do not apply. That becomes a matter of routine. These old habits die hard : ask an ex IRA active service man what he has in his pockets and wallet……and they will know exactly….still ready mentally for getting lifted !
Not one with the slightest bit of common sense not directly involved, would have gone poking around for the sake of it, difficult and all as that may be for ‘the other side’ to understand. It should also be remembered that while Claudy is now highlighted, at the time it melted into the background of other tragic events, another reason sleeping dogs were left alone !
I knew some or the old leadership of the area. A near relative of one, a young teenage girl committed a transgression while drunk, she was publicly disciplined for it and he refused point blank to interfere !
If young Mcglinchy did something like that without authorization, then a hell of a lot more Gardai would still have their trousers as Dominic would not have been around to remove them!
May add up for you but it do not for me !
Anyone have any idea on the number of car bombings that ocurred in 1972 ?
Paddy
Acccording to Wikipedia’s Francis Hughes’ entry: Hughes initially joined the Official Irish Republican Army, but left after the organisation declared a ceasefire in May 1972.[7][8] Hughes then joined an Independent Republican Unit along with Dominic McGlinchey and Ian Milne, before the three decided to join the Provisional IRA in 1973.[5][7]
So the IRU had the three people who were going to go on to be Ulster’s Three Most Wanted at that time.
Your car theft reasoning does, correctly, rule out retaliation for Motorman. The question then is: who did it: PIRA. IRU or FRU.
“We” can advance this so far but the guys with the real expertise are the defence forces. Every bomb maker leaves a trademark and they would have a good idea whose imprimatur was on this.
The Duvblin bombs are intresting in that regard as the UVF needed (FRU) help to do them
Given that the heat was on Chesney, he must have put a watertight alibi together and there must be an official record of that or even one with his solicitor and/or the Church authorities. With such awful fatalities in his backyard, as it were, he must have known where he was and collected as much proof as possible (Martin McGuinness, for example, knows precisely where he was on Bloody Sunday as does Gerry on Bloody Friday). If in Donegal on holiday for example, he would have heard the news there. And the cops, if they followed that up, would have asked how he reacted. Standard operating procedure.
The cops seem to be decidedly coy and not upfront in this case.
The Fr Liam letter is now admitted to be a fake by the Belfast Telegraph.
A public enquiry to help get at the truth would help establish where those who might know something – McGuinness, Ian Milne, Francie Brolly etc could testify
Liam:
http://cain.ulst.ac.uk/othelem/chron/ch72.htm
1972 was boom times for bombs. Strabane got the record as the most bombed town in the world and the Europa for the most bombed hotel. Some of the spectaculars included: Aldershot where a priest died (OIRA), Abercorn, Bloody Friday only days before Claudy .
Cain chalks up Claudy to PIRA, who already got the credit for Bloody Friday. 1972 was an awful year and the Provos decided to hell with it, let’s bomb them to oblivion. Hopefully, the ghosts of Claudy and other “famous victories” will come back to clear the air.
It easily could have been the Mad Dog.
Unfortunately, none of the possible parties involved are exactly trustworthy.
Remember when the PIRA tried to say it was the Brits who set off their bombs in Enniskillen with their anti-explosive technology? Couldn’t even own up to the foul deeds they had done
Thanks
http://www.londonderrysentinel.co.uk/roe/39Church-have-many-more-questions.6508827.jp
Unionist councillor looks up RC canon law, argues that criticism of the RUC on anything is unjustifiable and says a Claudy investigation is neded to balance Saville.
As this thread has more less run it’s course unless there are any further significant revelations to come into the debate, a wee bit of housekeeping for me at this point.
1) I confined my remarks from the outset to defending Fr. James Chesneys character as f there was no case against him, other than the fact that
a) He openly espoused a partisan political viewpoint and
b) his support for Republicans caused embarrassment for his clerical superiors
2) The agreed policy of Both States at that time was the isolation and suppression of Republicanism before it evolved into a political threat with elected representatives. The Brits propaganda machine went to work and started the rumor mill that made Fr. James position in Claudy or any other parish in British Occupied Ireland untenable.
3) There is no evidence for the ‘bad man’ reference other from English sources or ‘security’ sources. Catholic Clerics of the period have said on record that it was nomenclature that the leading catholic spokesperson of the period would not have used.
4) When Fr James was interviewed by his clerical superiors prior to his transfer, he was ordered to keep his political opinions to himself.
5) When the rumors persisted and the attempts to undermine him continued he went to Rory O’Bradaig to enlist his assistance in clearing his name. While not making any direct claims he to that effect; I would not be at all surprised at some future date to find that Rory O’Bradaig was in the IRA army council in that period and by asking Rory to exonerate him, both were in Republican /Nationalist/Catholic eyes saying that he was not involved.
Of course I also appreciate, in other eyes, the fact that Rory did this was also enough to further damm Fr James
6) I gave the parallel of a Southern young Church of Ireland priest of that period, who was removed from his parish for appearing on a platform supporting civil rights for Republicans with Dathi O’Connell and myself. As his bishop put it ” for appearing on the same platform as a convicted terrorist and a young man with aspirations in the same direction. Like Fr James he too came from a monied background and other aspects of his profile was not in-keeping with ‘Church image’
7) Once again this, another inconvenient truth was met by a deafening silence…. not even a mild curiosity from the other side as about the fact that a Southern protestant priest found himself is the same hot water for the same period.
9) Wikipedia is frequently quoted here, indeed I have occasionally referred to it myself. However it must be remembered that the entries are only as good as the editor of that particular piece. Such unsupported entries are not accepted in standard academic records.
In the old days the bane of the ‘letter page’ editor was the pedantic clever clogs who send in any number of letters under different aliases and even argued with themselves to add to authenticity in propagating their agenda. Wikipedia is a boon to such individuals as they can impute whatever they want and then quoted it as ‘authority’
It is both patently dishonest and an insult to general intelligence to ‘run an agenda’ under a number of aliases, thankfully only a very few are that devious or lacking in basic honesty, so while it is a price we must all pay for an open forum such as this, we should all also be aware of such individuals and agendas.
In as much as I have an agenda, it is out there for all to see, I have frequently referred to it. I do not agree with the political views of Turgon or David Vance for example, I expect both gentlemen to argue their case in the most polemic and advantageous way possible to their cause but I would not expect either party to propagate something they know to be bogus or a deliberate lie.
I would hope that disagreeable as my views may be to them that they and others on that general side of the political fence would accord me the same curtsey. If not that is their problem not mine and it will not change my attitude.
I do not know where this ‘funny face’ is coming from …… not my style…. now getting annoying…….help please !
So let us recapitulate.
May or June 1972 sees the formation of the South Derry Independent Republican Unit.
Prominent members:
Dominic McGlinchey aged 17, Bellaghy;
Francis Hughes aged 16, Bellaghy; and his cousin
Thomas McElwee aged 15, Bellaghy.
On July 31st 1972 bombs go off in Claudy, a Catholic majority town with no military connections. Warning is given in Dungiven by three youths, who look as if they are aged 13-17. The cars used had been stolen the previous week in (surprise, surprise) Bellaghy.
INLA had several internal splits and leadership heaves : McGlinchy was opposed by some of these and each side threw every accusation that they could make at each other. It would have surfaced by now!
As the two other witnesses to the 1972 cock-up both died in 1981, there would be no-one else who knew.
So there you have it.
Of course, there are plenty who will want to go on believing in the “Paedophile Pope in Martin McGuinness sex change canon law mercy dash” because that’s the people that they are.
But it seems to me that everyone got what they were aiming for. SDIRU wanted fighting and death, and they got it. Martin McGuinness and Gerry Adams wanted a Ceasefire and political office, and they got that too.
Paddy
I am not sure if McGlinchey was at the centre of the SDIRU. More likely it was the McElwees and their cousin, Francie.
http://wn.com/IRA_shootout_with_British_Army
It would be interesting to know if the SDIRU was like the South Armagh fronts used by PIRA or the one they used for Birmingham. Did the SDIRU give PIRA plausible deniability?
Some music commemorating these martyrs ,who bombed
Portglenone, Toome, Bellaghy, Castledawson, and Magherafelt among “other” gigs. If Hughes and McElwee were prime movers, Martin McGuinness would have a problem as two of PIRA saints will have been linked to something – the Claudy massacre – PIRASF do not want to be linked to.
Your last paragraph is interesting: But it seems to me that everyone got what they were aiming for. SDIRU wanted fighting and death, and they got it. Martin McGuinness and Gerry Adams wanted a ceasefire and political office, and they got that too.
This was the same with the proxy bombs, which implicated members of Martin McGuinness’ family. Strapping a fellow to his car and getting him to blow up Brits has to act as one of the most despicable acts in the annals of Irish history, right up there with Jean McConville and the German shepherd.
Martin McGuinness should tell us if these proxy bombers, his own brothar included, wer patriots or traitors. Rapist Larry Murphy was disowned by his own brother. Martin McGuinness could do the same as he inches towards respectability.
The proxy bombing gave the hawks the green light but it turned so many peeple off, including Christy Francie Hughes Moore that the doves won out, The role of Martin McGuinness is interesting in all of this. Was he up to similar tricks earlier?
Was the Fr Chesney smear an elaborate PIRA decoy or a joint effort through McGuinness’ handler/go between?
So, to get the truth, we need Ian Milne and Martin McGuinness to tell us what they know.
The PSNI should of course have access to Cardinal Conway’s papers. But thye should have better things to do – like grilling McGuinness and Milne.
I might have known the answer would have Martin McGuinness in it. I think we should be told.
Does Alan Maskey have a bee in his bonnet about Martin McGuinness? I think we should be told.
At the time of the Claudy bombings, Martin McG was 21 years old. As a previous contributor put it:-
Just one more thing by way of a general observation on IRA mindsets, vols. learn early everything is on a ‘need to know’ basis only, as what they do not know cannot be kicked out of them at 3AM in a cell or some other such place where the rules do not apply. That becomes a matter of routine.
Martin McGuinness, a 21 year old in the Derry Brigade, would hardly know what was being perpetrated by the South Derry Independent Republican Unit, a completely different organisation, would he?
Paddy
Just re-read this post. Wanted to add that in reality the Algerian insurgents were behind the bombing of the Kashbah. The film took some liberties.
The best Alergian bombers were good looking women who could pass through checkpoints easily.
I hereby nominate this thread as being the most repetitious ever on SOT.
Is, isn’t, is, isn’t ……. repeat for 400 or so posts
1 Sept 3.33:
Fr. Chesney’s .. spirit, his essence, and all else that he was in earthly life, now exist elsewhere in a spiritual reality, according to the beliefs of his faith.
Now would that be in Heaven or in Hell?
Paddy: I don’t know who bombed Claudy and, unlike someone else, nor do I know who ran South Derry IRA then but I would like to know who bombed Claudy. You have brought forward two credible hypotheses: SDIRU (which, as our ex IRB Army Council man has said, raised more questions on logistics) and FRU.
You have done some good work on this. Francie Hughes, McGlinchey, Tom McElwee, Jim Chesney are not going to tell us anything.
Let those who can ask those who know.
McGuinness certainly had a busy month: Tea and scones in London with Whitelaw, Bloody Friday, Operation Motorman, Claudy. I wonder what he made of it all.
I think you have added a lot to Chesney’s defence. It would still be interesting to see who verified his Donegal holiday and what, if anything, an Phoblacht said about his untimely death.
I am not sufficiently versed on the SDIRU to know if they could have organised the Claudy triple bombing. But a very fast rising tea sipping, tout killing star certainly could have helped.
It was such a busy month for McGuinesss and Adams what with the tea and scones, Claudy, Motorman and a host of other killings. Just as well that, like Francie Hughes etc, they quit OIRA early on and negotiated with MI5. The devil, as they say, makes work for idle hands.
I hope you enjoy the music; the South Armagh one is a bit flat C&W. I am going to listen next to Kevin Barry: lads like Barry are no traitors.
Is there a song about McGuinness?
Next I will get that Pogues song on McGlinchey.
Tiochfaidh ar la (those of us who were martyred anyway)
PaddyR
I said earlier that I was leaving you make most of the running from the Nationalist side on this one. The circumstantial evidence would indicate that it very well could be an early operation of McGlinchy’s, I am not discounting that possibility.
You appear to to be better informed of the regions personalities, it is not beyond the realms of possibility that they may have had assistance : the problem I have with a bunch of young fellows acting in this way on their own, is explosive expertise, logistics, security etc. All of these things are the product of passed on experiences and hard bought practice. Those who try to acquired them on the hoof do not least too long. The bombs were not basic, there was a certain amount of technical expertise involved.
Then there is the problem that these young mavericks presented to the IRA regulars, both Sticks and Provos in the area……. in a bombing operation there are so many variables to be taken into account and to have freelancers or a micro group drawing unwanted attention of security forces, I imagine, would not be tolerated for too long.
Remember the cock up in Cork where the Sticks and a left wing groupgrou hit a bank in the mid seventies at exactly the same time, one group ran down the street by the side while the other ran along the front of the building. Both collided at the door, a melee, cursing and swearing all round etc before they broke apart and fled.
That resulted in mutual ‘get out of town orders’ and the killing of Larry White! Had the cops not weighed in to join the Sticks in battering the other group, ( for reasons that became apparent later) many more deaths could have followed !
However for now I think your scenario on Claudy seems the more likely on circumstancial evidence …… history may tell !
joe
1 Sept 3.33:
Fr. Chesney’s .. spirit, his essence, and all else that he was in earthly life, now exist elsewhere in a spiritual reality, according to the beliefs of his faith.
Now would that be in Heaven or in Hell?
Not sure, perhaps it depends on whether or not he can read this thread.
Martin McGuinness was just a young, tender boy of 21 – sent to negotiate with the Brits. Even Michael Collins was older.
I could say you have a bee in your bonnet about a dead teenager – Dominic McGlinchey, who born after McGuinness, and who was martyred…………….for what?
But I don’t. Martin McGuinness defected from the OIRA and all of a sudden is head cook and bottlewasher. With Gerry Adams, alos ex OIRA and also not a traitor.
I tihnk the violent events of 1972 July and the McGuinness talks have to be looked at together.
Joe Canuck: You may be right that it is repetition. But no more so than 110 newspapers who hang Chesney.
Paddy Reilly has shone a spotlight on the SDIRU, who contain some of PSF’s most hallowed martyrs. That alone is worth 1000 other comments.
Paddy, this was a very dirty war. People very close to Adams and even Sands were compromised; terrible things were done, things of “cowardice, inhumanity and rapine”. They offerad up more people to their God than an Aztec priest. For what? And exactly who or what was their God?
Martin McGuinness is still alive, by the grace of God and he has had a charmed life. He should tell us what he knows. Give me his uvarnished book over Tony Blair’s any day.
Now….Now Joe behave yourself !
A few PD types up there very free with their mocking at cultural literary events back then because of my spiritual views have a more philosophical bent and open mind these days……. now that the varnished box and shiny plate is looming.
Try to reatain your mockery, when as they say in Mid Munster culture, you wake up dead you may need an advocate up there!.
If the good priest merits punishment on ‘the other side’, I would imagine being assigned Chaplin to sceptical left politicos, the PD among them to try to perswade all that the RC were right after all is about as bad as it gets, arguing for eternity ! ( or until the next reincarnation ?)
You have brought forward two credible hypotheses: SDIRU (which, as our ex IRB Army Council man has said, raised more questions on logistics) and FRU.
Making bombs that work is, I concede, not that easy. But SDIRU was able to do the job (31st July 1972) because it inherited members from OIRA, aka Sticks, who disagreed with their organisation’s ceasefire (May 1972). As with the Aldershot bombing, they were less expert when it came to hitting the intended target.
I don’t have a bee in my bonnet about McGlinchey. It could be someone else of the same age from the same organisation, also from Bellaghy. But he fits quite well.
But you can certainly forget James Chesney.
Perhaps people should remember Donald Rumsfeld’s famous words about known unknowns and unknown unknowns etc.
None of us here knows the truth or will ever know the truth.
As for the felon setters, least said.
Paddy
OIRA had “hard luck” with Aldershot. A funny ting at the time was when the FRU/Gleannr gang sent letter bombs to Cathal Goulding and Seam MacStiofain. Goulding defused his.
I don’t think we can go very far with this unless we have:
1. Chesney’s alibi in spades.
2. Conway’s notes.
3. the RUC’s notes/files on all of Derry.
4. Testimony from McGuinness, Milne, the FRU.
I know you dismiss Alias. But a credible antithesis can be goods. Look at the Dublin bombings: Garvey, the Badger etc. Look at the PIRAISU. We also must keep the big picture, the long game, so beloved of our British friends, in mind.
How did they compromise Donaldson? Who else had they compromnised? This is not what Dominic McGlinchey, Thomas McElwee and Frncis Hughes died for. But it is something that came out of those meetings in July 1972, metings attended by the late William Whitelaw and twpo people who are prominent in PSF today.
Anyone know what Ivor Bell is doing these days?
To many they died for nothing at all. A wasted gesture.
None of us here knows the truth or will ever know the truth.
We may never truly know who bombed Claudy, but I think we can at least rate the suspects in order of likelihood. It was not the Queen Mother, the W.I. or the Sisters of the Order of the Presentation. They are low on the list.
The SDIRU, on the other high, are very high. If we are looking for 3 youths from the Bellaghy region aged 13-17 I don’t know who else to suspect.
Chesney is not in the running- as a herring he is positively scarlet.
The Catholic Church is not an organisation for investigating crime: they just asked Chesney and let him deny it. If they had kept him awake for 48 hours they might have got a different answer- whether it would be a true one is another question.
Neither are the RUC’s notes on which wrong trees were barked up going to help us either. 3 youths aged 13-17 would fall into the category of absolute beginners, so there would be no intelligence on them.
So in short you don’t know who did it, but you know who you want to harrass. I refer you to my previous statement: I think you have to realise that driving around dropping off bombs, and belonging to an organisation which does this, actuarily speaking decreases your life expectancy significantly.
Those who live by the sword, etc. It was 38 years ago. They’re all dead now.
PaddyReilly
Where is the evidence of when this SDIRU was formed and how big an outfit was it, outside of Hughes/McG/Milne; how reliable are the witnesses to the 13-17 year olds and who are they ?
you know who you want to harrass
Check all of my comments. I haven’t harrassed anyone over the bombing.