Is Nelson McCausland overstepping his remit?
Culture minister Nelson McCausland has written to the trustees of the National Museums Northern Ireland asking them to give more prominence in their displays and exhibitions at the Ulster Museum to Ulster Scots, the Orange Order and alternative views as regards the origins of the universe specifically creationism.
The letter, written as part of a consultation for the Ulster Museums business plan for next year (Shared Future Strategy) has led to the Director of the Museums Association Mark Taylor to state that the minister has overstepped his remit by going into too much detail in his request and should not be trying to influence what is exhibited.
Given that the Museum has been shortlisted for the prestigious art prize fund (don’t forget to vote) it would seem pretty bloody obvious that the curators and custodians of the Museum (who are world class professionals) are doing a good job and don’t need any interference from a Minister (and dare I say) his old fashioned (and mythical?) views.
edited to add
Minister McCausland on the Nolan Show stated his disappointment that the letter had been leaked. He also stated that he would be failing in his ministerial responsibilities if he didn’t try to ensure in the interests of equality and cultural rights that ALL of Northern Irelands citizens were reflected in the museum saying it was a human rights issue. (Does that mean that the small number of BNP/C18 members should have an exhibition?) He mentioned 4 points that he had raised in the letter but only got to mention 2 of them, namely that the Orange Order and other fraternal organisations should be represented at the museum and that (the more contentious theory of) Creationism should be also represented. Richard Dawkins was also on and asked if the Minister was so worried about inclusivity would he also be asking for the ‘Stork theory’ of evolution to be taught along with other “Crackpot theories”.
The minister went on to say that by far and away the most number of requests he received as minister responsible for the museum, was to do with the representation of the OO and reiterated that he had raised the issues in the interest of equality and human rights.
Region: Northern Ireland
That wouldn’t work since it would require the guard to work on the Sabbath. Just put him in a darkened room and play soothing music. Maybe even show pretty pics like in Soylent Green.
It does annoy me he is using a highly paid public position to sneakily challenge the evidence based findings of history, geology geography, physics and chemistry for his own claptrap. However the most annoying aspect is how other parties have no objection to this. I know the reasons have been speculated on and I have to admit I nodded along in agreement with the reasons but is this acceptable from ministers in charge of Health or Education that the scientific method should be disregarded? That British Israeli stuff is a bit out of hand, does anybody in the royal family support spurs? Just to see if their is any evidence, of course.
We’re setting up a petition for anybody who really thinks Nelson’s gone too far with the creationism thing. You know, science being right and all that.
You can sign here if you fancy.
http://j.mp/petitionagainstnelson
Theres no need for the other Parties to get involved. Nelson is doing fine on his own.
If he is “attacked” on this then a siege mentality sets in….God fearing Nelson attacked by Papists and Athiests. Thats the headline that HE wants.
Better reaction is to let him wallow in RIDICULE….its the drip drip effect of Ridicule which will facilitae people saying “these people are crazy” and those who the gods destroy they first make mad.
Thats the beauty of parity of esteem.
Men with guns get into power. And people without guns have to live with it.
Crazy people get into power and sane people have to live with it.
No way can I sign this.
It is the duty of our politicians to provide us with entertainment. Nelson McCausland is to be admired and supported as a National Treasure.
Nelson is a present to nationalists, that just keeps giving. We need more nutty unionists like this.
Mr J,
how dare you sir, it’s a well known fact that electricity and beach balls were invented by Lucifer.
Jesus only invented bakelite and chips. I read it in an OLD book once so it must be true.
I’m not sure whether this is purely funny, or, we should be genuinely scared.
I don’t think Nelson gets the concept of sharing (for more see my blog on http://indecentpeople.blogspot.com/).
Nice piece of ‘demagogic simplification’ there Joe. Have you got an actual reason for calling for Robinson resignation?
Should just have a Unionist Museum … where there can be a special place for the bible, and god, and the covenant and the Ulster covenent, and the Union Flag, and Rangers, and Adam and Eve, and Moses, and the Planters, and Planters Peanuts and Nuts etc etc
Come on folks, is there a sizeable number of Unionists who believe in Creationism? Shake off them old shackles.
There’s been a few reference to Nelson being a wind up merchant which i simply don’t see. As far as i can tell, he was being serious with this insidious request.
I agree with Joe Canuck there does seem to be more than a hint of nudge nudge wink wink with this request particularly with it’s timing and the possible budgetary cuts ahead of us all.
This leads me to the fact that this case is as clear an indicator that there really should be a separation between state and church. Furthermore the lack of raised voices from thon un’s up the hill to speak out against McCausland does indicate a willingness by the other parties to go along with our Culture minister and his particular (and peculiar) beliefs for the sake of keeping themselves in power.
I think the limited comment (the Beeb include quotes from Thomas Burns of the SDLP and Barry McElduff of SF) is because this is a story that tells itself. The silence is probably more eloquent since more voices would dilute the identification with Nelson. Obviously, none of colleagues have felt obliged to jump in and defend him, not even to wave a bible around at us.
How about this for a shared future. Churches should be compelled to give sermons about Darwin’s Evolution of the Species. Not happy with that Nelson? Ok you can’t argue with state funded schools being compelled to teach evolutionary theory. Oh, but you already have argued against it, which is why state primary schools here in NI do not teach it, but happily ram Christianity down young people’s throats. Let’s face it, we are condemned to being a backwater as long as these dinosaurs are in charge. Sorry, I forgot, there’s no such thing as a dinosaur!
Oh I think I know a Wind Up Merchant when I see one
but hes a WUM in the sense that he fully “believes” what he is saying BUT ALSO is aware of its impact on a target audience……
in this case his prime targe is not Irishness or Republicanism but rather the elitism of the Artsy and Cultural Crowd.
And lets face it, they are a target worth winding up because of the serious way they take themselves. So good luck to Nelson.
And frankly petitions to have him removed and all that stuff is music to his ears
Good to see Tommy Burns back in the public domain.
I suppose its ok to ask him about that trip to Afghanistan now.
It should be no concern of Nationalism/Republicanism that the prime defenders of unionism are a bunch of weirdos. The more the merrier I say.
Incidently how many of these people who quote the Bible know that there are TWO Irish cities named in the Bible?
You misread me , Mick. I said Robinson should reassign Nelson, not that he should resign.
McCausland is an embarrassment to his party, his country and himself.
This creationism gibberish is a disturbing undercurrent still prevalent in Northern Irish society.
And just think… if only people bothered to read a science book, or two, then this incident would get the unified, scornful and legitimate derision that it deserves.
Ballyjamesduff and Ballybackofbeyond?
Joe Canuck…….the two Irish cities in the Bible are SodThem and Begorrah.
hehehehe;
I thought it would be something like that. I thought of Sodom and Gomorah … but couldn’t make a connection.
Or perhaps a national relic.
We need to get on and finish the job, it is time to put bibical literalism where it belongs. As Audi says Vorsprung Durch Technik
Is the bible wrong ie Creationism, 7 days, Adam and Eve? If so why do people rattle on about it and take it to be true? Perhaps it’s wrong about lots of other stuff too ie esp Book of Levitcus, completely bonkers. Why do people read it at all? Science is provable, evidence based knowledge gathered over years. Seems reasonable to believe that. Why does the bible tell us this nonsense? Who wrote it? When? Who are the people promoting this book if it is NOT TRUE? This begs the greater question about faith. How closely dare we look at any belief system? Catholics – pretty bound up in God too, Virgins etc etc, Protestantism – so many types, look at Nelson as an example. Creationists – again lots or various types and as pointed out on the radio what about Hindu, Indian, Autralian Aboriginal Creation stories? Are they wrong, nor Protestant enough, not British…What sort of a mad house has humanity (with its gift and need for stories) produced at all. Thank God I’m an atheist!
Moochin
This story has hit the World Wide web
http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2010/05/northern_ireland_culture_is_ap.php
Dawkins site and loads of others are covering it. Northern Ireland has become a laughing stock once again.
Excellent.
It seems to me that for sensible unionists comments like these should be very worrying.
Everytime unionists hit the headlines in Britian its for all the wrong and cringeworthy reasons.
Unionism has no popular support in England or Wales because of people like Mr. McCausland – you are ensuring that Unionism remains isolated and ridiculed and illigitmate.
You and your kind are a complete embarassment, if only you could understand the sheer damage you are doing.
It also seems to me that whilst nationalism can boast many intellectuals and international statesmen historically (eg. Hume), Unionism is devoid of any progressive characters and this is why you are ensuring that N.I. is doomed politically and economically
Interesting stuff Driftwood. There is already a display on the OO, McCausland’s complaining that it’s smaller than that of the United Irishman one (or IRB or whatever it is). And that’s fair enough, the OO should be represented there, they have played a significant role in our history. An impartial examination of that subject would be sensible enough.
It’s also fine by me for the rest of the world to have a laugh at us for the whole creationism bullshit these people try to enforce on the vast uninterested majority. If you guys don’t like this guy, stop voting for him ffs. But as the man said, we get the politicians we deserve. We must have been real assholes in our last life wha? (<— supernatural humour. Only kidding).
I have been deeply saddened by the comments of athiests on this page. One day you will acknowledge that God indeed is the Creator. Nelson might look foolish now, but you will on that day.
Please turn to Jesus Christ today.
But Philip, which of the 33,820 denominations of Christianity should we turn to? Do we have to pick one or is it not OK by you to praise God in our own way – why do you condemn us because we don’t follow your particular brand of beliefs?
You’re assuming that all those who disagree with Creationism are atheists. Nothing could be farther from the truth.
Do not preach to me – you are entitled to your beliefs but I maintain the right to disagree. I most certainly will not acknowledge that God is the creator – you might find yourself looking foolish on whatever day you are referring to; I assume you mean at the moment of death. Death holds no fear for me – it is a natural process and by not believing in a Creator, I make each day count as I will not pass this way again.
Hmmm seems like lot’s of people love Dick Dawkins. Dick believes in ‘big bang theory’ as opposed some inherent supernatural force that created ‘something’.
Of course there were dinosaurs and the world was created a long, long time ago but that is not to say that God did not create it. I would like to talk figures though – the key to a competely scientific start to the world as we know it is for the start of cell formation. Rem Dick believes there was nothing there at the start.
Sir Fred Hoyle a mathematician and astronomer calculated that the probability of one simple enzyme forming by chance is 10 to the power of 20 (one with twenty zeros behind it), to 1. Hence for one cell to form, about 2000 enzymes are needed, which makes the probability of the first self replicating cell forming by random movement of atoms as 10 to the power of 40000 to 1. One bitter critic of Hoyle begrudgingly said that that this figure is ‘probably not overly exaggerated’.
It has been said that this is as likely as a cyclone going through a junkyard and producing a fully functional jumbo jet.
Personally I’d prefer to believe that God created it – and on a qualitative level when you look around does the world not scream intelligent design?
Apologies if this is not completely on topic but as this thread seems to be just whipping boy stuff, well I thought some needs to explain the alternative…
VH
‘Jesus’ I have no problem with, or at least his teachings on love, forgiveness, empathy etc
Not so keen on the hebrew equivalent of the book of invasions as a guide to modern living however.
Perhaps you should look at the evidence for and against evolution by means of natural selection and creationism. If you did, then maybe you would accept that the Bible is nothing more than a work of literary fiction, albeit a poor quality piece. The scientific method is the only way that allows us to question preconceptions and to improve upon our knowledge instead of simply taking a work of fiction at face value. And I will never be converted to religion. I am an intellectual atheist which means that, unless I suddenly become stupid, I will never believe in a divine creator who supposedly created plants and animals with such obvious flaws and a world that is dangerous to its’ inhabitants.
I can’t wait to see the astrology or geocentrism exhibit in the museum.
Philip, the problem isn’t that he has his beliefs (most people do, and for that they are entitled to respect); in much the same way as Nelson cannot disprove evolutionary theory and should respect the views of people who have spent vast amounts of time studying in that area.
The problem is that Nelson’s trying to get his pet projects enforced on people who just aren’t interested. He might be one of thousands here who believe in creationism, but he’s still in the minority. Anyone who has any desire to find out about creationism can go to a church. The Museum should be run by the professionals employed there, and from what the word is they’re doing a pretty good job in not great circumstances.
This has nothing to do with equality, it’s simply Nelson pushing his pet projects up to the top of the list, but the declining membership of the OO, and the minority religious views he harbours point to the fact that we, the majority, don’t give a monkeys, and if we decide that we’ve changed our minds and we do give a monkeys now we can find plenty of info on these subjects in churches and orange lodges. So no need to ram anything down anyone’s throat then. Those who want to find out about creationism can take themselves off to a church and learn there.
The orange thing is a bit different as even the most ardent enemy of the OO has to admit that it is part of the history here, but on the same token there are plenty of lodges out there to promote themselves and where people can go to find out info without forcing the museum to increase it’s existing Orange Order exhibit to match that of the United Irishmen exhibit as Nelson wants.
The suggestion that the OO has no representation in the museum is wrong, Nelson’s just worried that an organisation firmly rooted in history (i.e. no longer exists and therefore can only be found out about in museums and libraries) has a larger exhibit that the Order (which whether we like it or not is part of the present and can be found out about in lodges, and has the ability to propogate it’s own message, which it unsuccesfully tries to do).
That’s the nub of the problem. People’s interest is on the decrease, and Nelson wants to force it on people to try to increase their interest instead of recognising the fact that just because you believe in something ardently yourself, doesn’t mean you’re right, people care or that you should try to force your minority views on the majority of disinterested citizens and tourists.
Absolutely Andrew — most of my family are sincere Christians, but not one subscribes to the 4000/6000 years nonsense, which is a relatively recent ‘development’ in terms of the Christian religion.
Fact is that creationism is merely a matter of faith — it has little or no support within the scientific community and as mentioned elsewhere, adoption of creationism as being somehow equivalent to Darwinism would make NI museums a laughing stock.
Philip I don’t doubt that you are sincere in your beliefs and I would strongly defend your right to hold them (which is a lot more than religionists have conferred on atheists down the centuries), but neither Nelson nor anyone else has the right to demand that his religious belief be represented within the context of a scientific exhibit.
Likewise his promotion of the laughably titled Ulster-Scots ‘language’ and the OO (who are already represented in the Ulster Museum) is completely out of line with both practicality and reality.
Sir Fred Hoyle calculated nothing of the sort. He made some personal guesses, nothing more.
Lets be honest Nelson McCausland is in a “win-win” situation.
He has made himself immune to being sacked by a DUP First Minister.
Not only that the Arts/Culture elitist lobby arranged against him are impotent and hypocritical.
While his remarks will probably cause much angst in the staff canteen in the Ulster Museum…….with words like “bible thumper” and “philistine” thrown around, these self same people will be small talking with Minister McCausland in the Long Gallery at Stormont as soon as the invitation hits the floor in Stranmillis.
They might feel they want to hold their nose while shaking his hand and discussing the vol-au-vents but McCausland is now untouchable.
Likewise the artsy crowd in the Cahedral Quarter will be outraged but if Nelson shows up there for a launch of one of their publicly funded projects……the great and the good will be falling over themselves to get pictured in the Tatler with the philistine.
Thats how Norn Iron works.
Has anybody picked up a science text book recently?
Read of my recent experience in my blog.
Interesting article but you lost me with “Both you and I know the answer ..”. I don’t but perhaps it’s because I haven’t looked at the basic level textbooks recently. Too complicated or too simple?
While McCausland and his party’s belief in Creationism is troubling and embarrassing – only because it demonstrates their jaw-dropping naïvety and ignorance – it’s seems the most pernicious and noxious idea held by McCausland has been overlooked amongst all the debates over whether or not Jesus rode into Jerusalem on the back of a T-Rex. The fantasy about Ulster Protestants being one of the great, long lost tribes of Israel, is almost reminiscent of the kind of psuedo-religious Nordic blood myths that Hitler and the Nazis used to spew. The racist fantasising and innuendo that spread the reactionary idea that certain people were inherently superior to others, and swallowed whole by credulous idiots. Does hard-line unionism still need further denazification? I think journalists and McCausland’s political opponents should be inquiring as to how serious he holds this doctrine.
That’s rubbish; I could quote any number of non Christian sources that the chances of big bang are unimaginable. The calculations of one of the most reknown current mathematicians, Roger Penrose [like Fred Hoyle - with no faith to speak of] show that the probability of universe conducive to life occurring by chance is in 10 to the power of 10 to the power of 123 take that down to Eastwoods and stick your house on it.
You’re blinded by your own disbelief which is ironically what you’re accusing Nelson McC of…
Andrew, Gerry
“You’re assuming that all those who disagree with Creationism are atheists. Nothing could be farther from the truth”.
I have something of a problem with this.
As I see it response to religious beliefs can be divided three ways
Those who believe in the supernatural
Those who think it is complete bollix
Agnostics
However I am not so sure that those who believe in the supernatural can be on firm ground in chastising those who believe in the Creation bit.
ie if Jesus can die and rise from the dead then isnt anything possible ?
ie if that same God wanted to create the world in 7 days or 700 hundred or whatever then he could do it ?
ie why suspend belief for some of the supernatural but become all inetellectual over creation ?
Considering the number of Catholics here who regularly go to mass then if they believe when the bell dings the wine and wafer actually become the blood and body of Christ then how can they not suspend the same belief when it comes to creation ?
On a general point creationism has no place in a museum – that is for the Churches to teach.
At the same time I think evolution should also be allowed to be viewed with more sceptism than it appears to currently tolerate.
There are massive gaps in the process of evolution and explanations to suit the generally accepted narrative are forced upon us as fact.
At least Christians are honest and say it is a leap of faith – scientists rarely know such humility
Hello there
Sorry that phrase got left in when I edited. They are lots of studies as to why science is not popular among some schoolkids, the sheep and goats division between the arts and the sciences, the relatively poor pay for scientists, lab technicians etc etc.
As to the text books. Modern science textbooks are unlike anything that have gone before They are bright and breezy, well written, plenty of diagrams, clearly headed etc with a lot more concentration on understanding rather than fact for facts sake. Fascinating reading and a real eye opener.
I only ever did physics and maths. I missed out big time on chemistry and biology. Hey ho.
I for a change agree with Nelson McCausland, (I know that is difficult to swallow) but The Orange Order deserves a place in the Museum,
In fact it is the only place in Northern Ireland where I believe the Orange Order belongs and should be found.
I would suggest that a suitable display for ‘Creationism’ would be a Bible, opened at Genesis 1, set on a display stand, on one side being an animated talking snake and on the other with an animated talking ass.
The front of the display could have other objects such as a Santa, A bunny Rabbit and a model of a fairy
If anyone is intelligent enough to believe in a snake capable of a conversation with a human as in the book of Genesis, and an ass capable of a conversation with a human, as in the book of Numbers, they will be intelligent enough to believe in father Christmas, Easter Bunny, Tooth Fairy, and probably do not accept that other people may have other theories on the subject.
Could it be that the author of Shrek got his/her Ideas from Numbers 22 or Genesis 3?
Just physics and maths for me too. My grammar school didn’t have biology classes!
The process by which chemical reactions produced RNA which later evolved into DNA is at the frontier of science. The events happened more than 4 billion years ago, so it is a very complex task, figuring out what the most likely sequence was. But many diligent and intelligent scientists are working on the job and progress is being made.
One thing is pretty clear. It is ridiculous to imagine that the writings of 2000 BC camel-herders will shed any light on the problem. And it is equally ridiculous to think that people today who believe every word the camel-herders wrote, like Nelson McCausland, have anything useful to contribute to the process either. If those people want to wallow in the ignorance of camel-herders, there are numerous religious institutions to cater for them.
McCausland has no business telling the staff of the Museum how to do their job. He clearly has little idea of how to do his own. He should be reassigned to a post more fitting for his limited talents.
Where is he?
Is he out of Jail yet?
It is just that a while ago I was reading that the (then) partner of Mary Winehouse while he was in jail found Jesus there. It didn’t say what Jesus was in jail for.
Has he been released yet?
Mahatma Gandhi, didn’t have a problem with Jesus either, he said ‘Jesus I like, it is the Christians I have a problem with, they are so unlike him’
Strange that the author of that statement is also the initial author of the statement ‘Love the Sinner. Hate the Sin’ which the same Christians are so found of using
Of the Ironies of Life!