‘Former OC’ Gerry Adams and his dirty tackle
Today saw republican veteran Dolours Price feature heavily across several pages in the Irish News (locked away behind a tight online pay-per-read wall), it was most focused on her involvement with the Independent Commission for the Location of Victims’ in identifying the disposal sites for some of the ‘disappeared’.
There was also a claim that during part of her time as an IRA volunteer Gerry Adams was her Officer Commanding (OC).
This hasn’t, as yet, been picked up in many other arenas but it was enough to see SF promptly issue a press release in which Adams crudely dismisses Ms Price without once addressing her allegation:
Dolours has set her self against the Sinn Féin leadership on many occasions. But I was very moved by her admission that she is suffering from trauma.
There obviously are issues that she has to find closure on for herself and there’s no point anyone in these situations blaming anyone else – it’s up to her and she needs support to come to terms with all of this.
This blog, not that ‘this blog’, doesn’t think Dolours will be receiving an invite to Ógra Shinn Féin’s ‘Celebrating the Women of Struggle’ Dinner Dance.
Perhaps she needs to give a tree a good hug.
Ulick.
Were you ever lifted .Were you ever in the kesh yourself ?Do you still have your depositions or are they burnt .Dolours kept her mouth shut when it mattered ask Kelly ,And yes I still have mine.
What’s the new content here?
There is absolutely NO chance of the Brits putting Adam in the dock for anything he did in the past or is still doing. Not so much as a T.V licence fine in his 40 years at the top of the Provos.
Compare to his predecessor, shot in her hospital bed by Brits.
Contrast to the leader of the INLA, Mc Glinchey, with years in jail.
Compare to the alleged leader of the RIRA Mc Kevitt, 20 years on supergrass evidence.
He is their prime asset in Ireland.
Their Irish Hamid Karzai.
The Brits also turn a blind eye to Karzai nad his corrupt warlords for the benefit of the bigger picture. This is what they´ve been doing in Ireland for decades.
Ulick,
In Peter Taylors “Provos” several leadsing PSF people spoke of their past.
Last year Bobby Storey and Gerry Kelly was on the telly regaling us of their great escape in 83.
Several leading PSF people have written books and articles of their military past.
Is all this fine so long as no-one mentions our Gerry.
Whats next, after the patronising put down of Dolores? A picket of Brendan Hughes´grave?
Chekov
Well done. There is nothing new here. Just the Gerry Adams historical roundabout in motion.
What is interesting, is to see Sinn Fein engage in the age old British intelligence discreditation game; so and so was mentally ill; had a drink problem, gambling addiction etc, etc …
Gerry also claimed Hughes “wasn´t well”, nudge-nudge.
Maybe apart from seeking therapy, Gerry should identify and diagnose everyones trauma, and deliver therapy.
What a patronising knob.
old school,
both Story and Kelly received extra terms for their part in the escape and they were careful not to implicate anyone other than themselves. Let’s not forget that as we are seeing in Gerry McGeough (“Provos”) case, a person may still be prosecuted for historical events, on the back of such media excursions.
Thanks Ulick for proving my point.
Gerry Mc Geough would NOT have been prosecuted, had he stayed on message.
ULICK
If you had anything to do with Provoism, you would not be posting on this forum, as I understand that army orders, as recently retrieved from a field in Dundalk, forbid any volunteers, whether under their “own name, or using a pseudonym, allonym or “nom de plume” from posting on any blogs or social networking sites in relation to matters relating to the army.
Scaramoosh, let’s nail this once and for all. I am not a Provo, an ex-Provo, a SF member, an ex-SF member or anything else you may want to suggest. I have never claimed to be and neither have I suggested Price should shot for a tout.
I am an Irish Republican, non-aligned, who has dallied with different forms of socialism. However, I like to think I have a good understanding of Irish history, culture and traditions and unlike many other round these parts my understanding of republicanism is not defined by opposition to everything associated with Sinn Féin.
“There are other former vulnerable republican activists who have or are suffering trauma and who have been cynically exploited by some elements of the media.” GA
Does he include bloggers? If so, what do they have to gain from washing Adams ‘dirty tackle’ in public?
Funny how no one here has run with Malachi’s main point elsewhere, ie none of the MSM have taken up Miss Prices claims about Adams.
As someone has already said, it is therefor difficult not to believe Gerry Adams is a protected source. Whether this is because he was a tout of the British, a CIA asset, or it was simply the political direction he has taken SF in, ran in tandem with both that of the British and US governments,
However even if the latter is true, it does beg the question who started Gerry on his political journey into the reformist camp, as up until then, the main reason he had risen so high within the PRM was because of his revolutionary credentials and political nous.
What’s ‘new’ is her claim that she was involved in ‘The Unknowns’ (the group Adams established to ‘disappear’ the likes of Jean McConville) and that Adams was directing her activities.
While the British state has no intention of prosecuting its most senior agent, the crimes committed by the ‘The Unknowns’ transcend British criminal law and are indictable offences under international law (the Geneva/Hague conventions), so the families have may another option in securing the justice that the British state continues to deny them .
Mick,
It could of course be that he realised that the violence was getting nowhere, and that it was having the effect of putting a united Ireland further back. Isn’t that basically the conclusion that everyone – including critics of Adams like Hughes or McIntyre – except for the armed dissidents have reached? Adams may have seen it before a lot of the Provos but he was hardly the first to see it. There is of course also the logic of chasing votes. I don’t see the need for conspiracy theories here. Just common sense.
Well, I suppose that all those handlers may have been simply drinking tea and filing bogus expenses claims…
Except, of course, the theory that they ended the use of violent means to remove British sovereignty and assert the right to national self-dtermination and a nation-state would only make sense if they didn’t accept the legitimacy of British sovereignty, elevate the unionist veto to the status of a principle, and renounce the right to national self-determination. So it wasn’t the means to an end that their handlers led them to reject but the end along with it.
There are other former vulnerable republican activists who have or are suffering trauma and who have been cynically exploited by some elements of the media.” GA
Does he include bloggers? If so, what do they have to gain from washing Adams ‘dirty tackle’ in public?
Interesting point,Nevin. It may just be a ‘woman scorned’ response or perhaps something else?
“There are other former vulnerable republican activists who have or are suffering trauma and who have been cynically exploited by some elements of the media. GA
Does he include those who were also rapists and child abusers?
Garibaldy
Allias is correct accepting the legitimacy of British sovereignty is a step beyond the points you made. There is no reason why Adams could not have done all the points you mention, after all we have been told by the media the PRM were a main plank of the negotiating process.
There was no logical reason I can see as to why he made what was after all, a total negation of Irish republicanism. I mean, even taking a seat at Westminster would have been a mere hop compared with what he eventually signed up to.
It is very hard to adhere to the “ball” rule here:
Gerry Adams is a nasty nasty man who will say and do anything, even denigrating the memory of family members, former ‘comrades’ and dead men, to protect himself.
It is really sickening and transparent.
Sometimes I think there are people out there who dont like Gerry Adams.
Some would seem to have good reason from the very specific he was er allegedly a senior figure of a paramilitary organisation which killed my father/brother/friend. Lets be honest we all know at least one person who was a victim.
Or maybe people dont like him because more generally he was er allegedly head of a paramilitary group which destroyed “their” country and way of life.
And of course the OVERCLASS (journalists academics etc) dont like anybody who is not a member of the OVERCLASS.
Now a whole new group of people dont like him…..er but they havent liked him for years….Anthony (I have a website) McIntyre and the usual cast of republican dissidents.
Hasnt the Price girl been one for years?
and The Dark Hughes has written a book from “beyond the grave”
All the usual snide crap. Gerry is “getting therapy” because of dysfunctional family. Hilarious eh? Well er not really.
“Gerry on Jesus”? Hilarious? Not really. But hasnt he already done this kinda thing on a Gay Byrne show.
Perhaps if enough of the OVERCLASS and dissidents added to the very real pain of victims (the Willie Fraser type not the Alan McBride type) still rooted in the past go on for long enough about Gerry Adams………..someone in West Belfast might say
“oh my goodness I think that Gerry Adams was an IRA man……cant vote for him anymore”.
Unfortunately Gerry Adams detractors (new old real and psuedo) completely miss the point that every crime (Oxford Street) or treachery (signing the GFA without Anthony McIntyres approval) lack of academic achievement (not even a bad degree in Politics like our Journalists) or not having a functional family (like er the Queen/Mrs Windsor)…….all of this.
Gerry Adams WONT LOSE A SINGLE VOTE because of any of it.
No doubt at 60……Gerry is coming to the end of his political career.
No doubt his wife his ill.
No doubt he might have considered retirement. At which point the OVERCLASS would have said “ah its because of the allegations…hes had enough….WE won”
And maybe the same OVERCLASS think a better man WOULD have retired to be with his wife.
Cue hostility either way.
NOBODY except the OVERCLASS cares.
Gerry Adams will be MP for West Belfast as long as HE and his ELECTORATE want him to be.
It doesnt suit the unholy alliance of Adams enemies but its a fact.
His involvement in the Troubles……is actually his endorsement.
‘Gerry Adams WONT LOSE A SINGLE VOTE because of any of it.’
And that is sad enough that we should all hang our heads in shame at our society.
Sectarian voting is not something for Adams or SF or anyone else, to be proud of.
” If Adams still wants to claim that he was engaged in a ‘war’ after the book comes out, then I hope the families of ‘The Disappeared’ look into the possibility of launching a campaign to have him prosecuted for serious human rights violations what would be classified as war crimes under the Geneva/Hague conventions. ”
Absolutely correct action.
FJH
I am not really sure what point you are making beyond throwing insults around like verbal confetti.
Of course Gerry Adams is not the font of all evil or wisdom come to that; and I am a little bewildered by your points about the West Belfast seat being his for as long as he wants it. Perhaps, but there is nothing new about this, the UK electorate voted for Tony Blair as PM in three General elections. Once as a man who was responsible for far more deaths than Adams, 500k plus at the latest count. But despite this being common knowledge at the last UK general election he was still returned as PM.
The reason Gerry’s bum is glued to the West Belfast seat is for much the same reason as why Tony Blair won the last UK election; the lack of a viable opposition figure. There is absolutely no reason to presume that such a figure will not emerge at some time in the future, so we need to keep this into perspective to understand why he still holds West Belfast, despite all the water under the bridge. When people turn politically they often do so very quickly.
My main gripe with Adams is by acting in such a secret and dishonest way he has allowed the British to write the script for the history of the troubles. We do not even know for sure, what amnesty from prosecution he and his senior colleagues were or were not given.
The blame for the rise of armed republicanism which is again slowly beginning to take hold, more than any other individual lays at the feet of Gerry Adams, for by his behaviour he has allowed to take hold, the old chestnut, ‘sell out leadership, one more heave and we will have the republic.’
Over telling the truth about his IRA membership, he has allowed himself to be backed into a corner by outrightly denying his past, better to have said nothing. Still you cannot change what is done, thus all the time he remains an elected politician he would be crazy to open up a can of warms by admitting his IRA membership. One only has to read an e-list like this to understand that as soon he admitted membership, every violent act which took place in ‘the troubles’ will be laid at Gerry Adams door.
I think it totally unnecessary for Gerry to admit IRA membership. The whole strength…rightly or wrongly is that……the IRA are “known” to be in office sharing power.
My understanding of standing orders is to deny membership.
So paradoxically denying membership is actually admitting it……unless of course Adams is telling the truth.
The point I make is that the “crimes” which vexate the OVERCLASS and the unionists are not even perceived as crimes by the electorate in West Belfast.
True there is a new “enemy” for Adams…..disgruntled former comrades or associates……but as they have been around for years anyway and are a total waste of space anyway, it doesnt really matter.
Fitzjameshorse
The disappeared and many others, even Delours Price are old news and not the reason GA is in trouble. Ms Price has nothing to brag about, any ‘assistance’ she might give the police would be in the form of a confession.
The only reason GA is in serious difficulty is because he has been extremely economical with the truth regarding the allegations about his brothers child abuse, and the rape of young girls.
The main reason he will continue to be voted in by the people of W Belfast is because he has undoubtedly been a good MP. He has done much for his constituents and, whether some of us like it or not, for his country.
Three points and you’re wrong on all of them, Pip.
(1) Delours Price has immunity, so the British state will not be prosecuting her as a result of any statement she makes to the inquiry.
(2) GA is not in any trouble, since he is a protected species and will only be ‘forced’ to resign when his handlers deem that to be in their best interests.
(3) West Belfast is one of the most economically deprived shitholes in the UK.
Alias
Delours Price, immunity or not, what does that have to do with a confession? in fact it could be said that her immunity means she has no reason not to confess.
GA is not in trouble with the Brits, who knows at the end of this we may find they allowed the coverup of more than one abuser. We will have to wait until after any trials take place before investigating their part.
W Belfast is better than it was. No one doubts that. The people who live there apparently like and admire him, that wont change because of, so far, unproved allegations.
“…the organisation she swore an oath to doesn’t exist…” says Mark McGregor thus perpetuating the hoary old oath-swearing myth so beloved of cheap novelists and even cheaper journalists.
IRA volunteers, as one would expect most Republicans to know, did not swear any oath of loyalty to any organisation, rather they would make a simple declaration that they would be faithful to the Republic and uphold the aims of the IRA and obey the lawful commands of its officers.
Oaths were left to members of other organisations: Freemasons, Orangemen, Members of Parliament and the like.
Fitzjameshorse, can I be one of those ‘disgruntled former comrades or associates’ that are a total waste space? I much prefer the company of Mackers, the Dark and the others who take or took up the space that people like yourself and the other lemon suckers believe is wasted on.
How much space do you take up between your arse and the elbow typing away under a stupid name away?
The fact is that before Gerry Adams the people of West Belfast voted for the other Gerry, Gerry Fitt maybe they like Gerrys or maybe as has been pointed out they vote for Adams because there is no Catholic alternative?
I also believe that the majority of people in West Belfast fear a return to war if they choose to ignore PSF at the polls or perhaps they fear that those who still see Armed Struggle as the way forward getting encouragement if PSF were rejected at the polls.
In this regard those the Peace Processors call ‘Dissidents’ should realise that their actions merely help keep Adams and those who stand nodding behind him in their seats and will continue to do so no matter what we may find out next….Or just as importantly no matter how crap they are at doing anything except waffle.
Christ! First we have Mick Hall blaming Gerry Adams for the rise of the dissidents:
“The blame for the rise of armed republicanism which is again slowly beginning to take hold, more than any other individual lays at the feet of Gerry Adams…”
now we have Dixie Elliott claim that Adams owes the retention of his West Belfast seat to the existence of the dissidents whom his constituents fear would fill the gap were they to reject Adams.
I await the next startling revelations perhaps claiming alternatively that he was Jack the Ripper and that it can be shown (look at that beard) that he is a leader of the Taliban.
At least we had Garibaldy attempting to inject some sanity only for his contribution to be swamped among a tide of quite idiotic comments more suited for inclusion in the follow up to a Gary Bushell column.
Ah Rory Carr and you choose to ignore the overall point I was making in that the majority of people don’t want armed struggle nor do they want Unionists getting an inroad into safe Nationalist seats, therein lays the story of Adams success. Not even the Catholic Bishops got away with what he is so far managing to do.
The people of the South have no such worries and the Adams party down there, without British funding to keep them together, are falling apart. Maybe that’s why Mary Lou is now up here in search of gainful employment?
Gerry could be any of those you mentioned Rory it’s just that his memory is not the best now-a-days and he gets confused. I wonder did he ever consider suing Monty Python for plagiarism? There’s a good few pounds in it he should ask Men at Work.
Dixie Elliott
5.Fitzjameshorse, can I be one of those ‘disgruntled former comrades or associates’ that are a total waste space?
Of course you can.
Being a dissident is a form of role play anyway. Be whatever you like.
Can I have a go on your high horse as well?
Suzanne Breen is also a ‘Dissident’ according to the leadership of the ‘Peace Process’ maybe her role play is journalism?
Ulick
“We all know the truth of the matter and there is no question of dancing on pins, no matter how much unionist or dissident commentators may like to imagine they are tightening the screws on the issue. Anyone with even the slightest understanding of the Irish Republican tradition knows there is an acceptance of the duality or dichotomy that exists.”
So to cut through the crap for a moment – republicans like Gerry Adams are expected to lie about their terrorist past in the IRA?
Why then do we have Adams and co organising things like the (sickeningly hypocritical) so-called “March for Truth”? Would that be “March for Other People to Tell the Truth But Not Us, No Siree?”
Why did I see Gerry Adams in the Irish News today demanding an inquiry about deaths in West Belfast in 1971, when it’s Provo republican policy to lie about their involvement in…ooh, let’s see…the death of a woman in West Belfast in 1972??
I believe that several former republicans, who have spoken frankly about the past, are motivated by remorse and integrity. They appear to have an almost greater disdain for Gerry Adams and those who still lie about the past than those of us who criticise from outside the republican tradition. And that is understandable, for he is the one who most clearly sets an example of lying about the past and patronising those who value the truth.
The fact is that people are entitled to clear their consciences and the stand taken by the provos effectively forbids them to do that.
In years past I would have detested and avoided a man like Brendan Hughes, but I knew him a little in the latter years and I liked and respected him because he was not living a pretence.
The Provos would be doing a service to their own members if they allowed space for regret and reassessment and, to enable that, Gerry Adams should take the lead and show that honest reconsideration of the value of the armed campaign is acceptable.
Mike, you seem to be addressing a question to me but then assume an answer and make another reply to the answer I didn’t make?!? Weird…
Malachi, did you come up with that post yourself?
Oh and malachi just who in hell are you to stand in judgement over anyone, especially someone like Brendan Hughes who I doubt ever went out of his way to meet yourself?
The fact is many of us like The Dark no longer see Armed Struggle as the way forward and in many ways we have Adams and McGuinness to thank for seeing the futility of it.
Oh you can stand on your wee milk crate and preach to us sinners that we alone should repent our evil ways while ignoring the part played by the British, their killers in loyalism and the bigotry of Unionists that led them on and encouraged them.
You might despise Adams, McGuinness etc but the fact is malachi they have become just like you…Castle Catholics!
Ah “Malachi” I detect a faint whiff of hypocrisy.
You are one of the fully paid up members of the Overclass (journalist branch) who finds the whole process rather distasteful.
I can quite understand that Brendan Hughes is not your particular cup of latte.
Your conversion to “liking and respecting” a man who was OC of the Belfast Brigade IRA is I suspect less to do with Hughes giving up “living a pretence” but rather more to do with his cynicism about the Process which of course you share.
If we look at the example of Sean O’Callaghan once in the IRA and now a media darling of the Overclass….its not all about renouncing a past.its about their use in a continued campaign against Gerry Adams.
Hughes past, O’Callaghans past is something you quite understandably abhor. That you now Hughes more acceptable changes nothing about what he was.
Wow, Dixie!
There is a difference between the Provo post trouble culture and that of the other groups. In all of the other groups – Loyalist, British, whatever – there are people who have the freedom to regret what they did without being excluded for doing it. Of course there are some provos who feel no remorse for what they visited on us – and they visited more death and destruction on us than any of the other groups. Well, good luck to them.
But the constraints within provo culture which forbid remorse are themselves self limiting.
Who the hell am I to stand in judgement – I can form an opinion, can’t I? Isn’t that what freedom is? I pass no judgment on Brendan Hughes other than the positive one that in my occasional dealings with him he seemed civil and genuine. I think we all know he didn’t end his life celebrating his great achievements as a war lord.
But could the provo culture include his regret? No, it couldn’t.
FitzjamesHorse, I don’t know why you presume to read my opinion of Sean O Callaghan into my post when I didn’t mention him.
Adams and McGuinness brought peace but they did it on the understanding that they could defend the lie that the IRA campaign was necessary and productive when it was unwarranted carnage from beginning to end. OK, I understand why they would do that; but I argue that those other provos who can’t and won’t preserve that pretence – because it discredits them and doesn’t fit with their own reflections on their experiences – should be free to air their remorse and not be alienated for it.
Oh “Malachi” I chose my words rather more deliberately than you seem to think.
I said that “Hughes past and O’Callaghans past you quite understandably abhor”.
As you already stated your distaste for Hughes.then I dont think its a major presumption on my part that you feel the same about O’Callaghan.
Of course I am open to the possibility that I am wrong….and you are quite welcome to state that you DONT abhor O’Callaghans past.
I merely brought up O’Callaghan because of his rehabilitation with the Overclass.
Well, your presumption that I belong to some group that you have conceived in your imagination doesn’t add much to the discussion.
“malachi”…youre a founder member
The main reason he will continue to be voted in by the people of W Belfast is because he has undoubtedly been a good MP. He has done much for his constituents and, whether some of us like it or not, for his country.
Oh…?????? Like what?
malachi, you are a pain in the brain
scarecrow
Oh come on. Gerry Adams and Martin McGuinness have done much to bring about the peace we all enjoy.
It took courage to enter into the agreement and it takes courage to speak out when dissidents commit acts of violence.
In their own constituencies they have the respect of their electorate.
It would be dishonest to deny their achievements whilst taking every advantage of them. Even the value of peoples homes is largely due to them, after all no one wants to buy a house on a firing range.
“But could the provo culture include his regret? No, it couldn’t.” – malachi
It could if it was a successful campaign for men like Hughes rather than a dismal failure. For the self-serving catholic tribe in NI, the Provos/Shinners are seen as having delivered privileges within the British state that they (wrongly) believe would otherwise have not been awarded to them. The only folks for whom the Provos/Shinners murder campaign has been an unqualified success is MI5 and those who regarded it as great cover for organised crime, becoming extremely wealthy from it.
Also, you give undue credit to the internal organisers of state-sponsored murder gangs for desisting from activities that they should never have been engaged in. Martin and Gerry were instrumental in organising that organisation’s murder campaign.
I don’t buy the line that they colluded with the security services in undermining that murder gang because they had a joint-epiphany and realised that the British government would not withdraw or the line that they had a joint-conscience moment and realised that random sectarian murder was morally wrong.
It is more likely the case that both of these sociopaths were compromised and given the choice of spending a long time in prison or working for the security services, thereby enjoying the protection of the British state as prize assets. Sociopaths will always choose the option that best serves their own interests.
Most folks would simply quit an organisation if they no longer believed in it. They would not choose to collude with the security services in hollowing it out from within, usually by murdering their comrades – nor would they choose to lead it to endorse the legitimacy of British rule and to formally renounce the national rights that they claimed to be asserting.
You’re just looking at a pair of amoral self-serving touts, and you know it but won’t say it because you’re being a ‘good’ journalist and not giving the game away.
In their own constituencies they have the respect of their electorate.
pipakin what planet are you on, can’t speak for Derry but most are indifferent now to Adams. Where was the outpouring of sympathy when he said about his fathers abuse, there was some but it was no major talking point, even less – or none at all when he spoke about collette. Someone who has the respect of the electorate would also have their sympathy wouldn’t they, so where is it.
Can’t speak for the Derry guy, but Adams has not much respect, he’s voted in due to a lack of any alternative.
It would be dishonest to deny their achievements whilst taking every advantage of them. Even the value of peoples homes is largely due to them, after all no one wants to buy a house on a firing range.
Who did a lot of the shooting? So going by your logic the value of peoples homes went down during the troubles. Catch a grip, ‘safe’ areas like West Belfast on one side and East on the other were the most expensive areas in Belfast all during the troubles, it was in areas that were mixed that had cheaper housing due to high tensions helped along by the provos. Nothing to do with Gerry and Marty mind.
No one took advantage of those guys, they feathered their nests well and took more than advantage all the way….
scarecrow
These islands, like the rest of the world, are full of politicians who have ‘feathered their own nest’.
Of course the most expensive properties would be in the least violent areas, that emphasizes my point. The north would not have enjoyed the housing boom had it not been for the peace.
I cannot know the mindset of the people of W Belfast, but an election is a secret ballot, people who vote for him do have a choice. To say there is no alternative is unfair. The turn out is always respectable, so the people are not staying at home rather than voting for him.
It is true that members of PIRA lead by both GA and MMcG hurt a lot of people, but it still took a lot of courage to take the step that allowed everyone to live in peace.
It was not the same for the loyalists, all they had to do was stop when the republicans did.