Adams’ Palin moment
Gerry Adams’ appearance on the Late Late Show was notable for his Palinesque answers.
• Well I have to say, even yet, and I know an awful lot more about these issues now, it still, beyond, uh, part of my, I can understand it to a certain degree, you know, intellectually and because I’ve learnt a huge amount about abuse and how they happen and about the trauma for, uh, victims, and about how, how, how so many victims, apart from the direct victims, a ripple effect throughout the entire family.
• Were ever you tempted to [disown your brother]?
Yes and no. He left the country, both, both sets of parents, he had separated from his wife Sally who is Aine’s mother, and, and both left independently of each other, left, left Ireland. Uh… So… later on, I discovered that my father was an abuser, and, ah, I was told that around 19 – 96, and I brought all of my siblings together, and that included my brother Liam. And we tried to work through, this, absolutely horrifying, you know, I was a man, ah, in my 50’s, ah, I, I had been out of my family home from 1969, and we are a large family so, you know, some of my siblings would be quite young, probably, and some of the youngest ones may be in their mid or late 30s now. So, this was just a horrifying thing to come to terms with.
• What’s taken you so long to deal with these very profound and such close personal issues?
Because, because there are ten of us, and I’m the oldest and in Ireland a lot falls on the oldest, and we are a very, you know, close, close family, but, everybody comes at this differently, so you have ten people, and I don’t want to talk about my own family, they haven’t authorised me to talk about them, but let me just talk about it in a theoretical sense. Some were immediately in denial.
• One of the reasons why, why I wanted to publicise this, was because there are people out there who, are just absolutely destroyed, damaged, by abuse. Abuse of a child is, is the most heinous thing, you know, that, that could ever happen, a child’s life is stolen, a childhood is stolen, and, you know, there are lots of people who can’t have children, and I love children, and to think of, especially an iconic figure, you know, a father, a brother, some cases uncles, whatever, whatever happens to be the family, ah, circumstance.
Fuller transcript follows the jump. Ryan Tubridy: [...] I just want to get this story, as you see it. So, take this time, take this opportunity, to lay it out as it was. Let’s go back to what I said a minute ago. Aine calls to you and says, that your brother, alleges that your brother, sexually abused her. Now, how did you react to what she said, first of all, as a human, as a man, an uncle?
Gerry Adams: Well, I was horrified. Uh, I didn’t know, really a lot about child abuse or, or, any of that, uh, so it was almost, uh, beyond my sense of, of being, uh.
RT: Could you not grasp it, do you think, was it beyond your grasp to understand it?
GA: Well I have to say, even yet, and I know an awful lot more about these issues now, it still, beyond, uh, part of my, I can understand it to a certain degree, you know, intellectually and because I’ve learnt a huge amount about abuse and how they happen and about the trauma for, uh, victims, and about how, how, how so many victims, apart from the direct victims, a ripple effect throughout the entire family.
RT: But did you go to then, your brother with Aine, is that what you said?
GA: Yeah I went with, I went with Aine and her, ah, …and, and, and her mummy.
RT: And her mother to see Liam. That must have been a very difficult, ah, moment, what happened at that confrontation?
GA: Well, I, I, I deal with as much of this, as I can.
RT: Well, tell us what you can tell us.
GA: Just to tell your viewers, I’m sure you are conscious, there is a court case pending, the PSNI have written to me, and told me not to talk about these matters, on the media, because they could become prejudicial to
a, a court, ah, hearing.
RT: Even though a lot of it has been aired already.
GA: Yeah, well, still, still, I don’t want to be a person who is going to be part of that court proceeding, because I have made a statement to the PS, PSNI and, uh, you know, Liam denies, uh, the charges, uh, against him.
RT: And he denied it to you.
GA: And he denied it to me.
RT: Who did you believe?
GA: I believed Aine.
RT: Why?
GA: Because, I just couldn’t believe that a child, and, and Aine, you know, was a good, young, kid, maybe at that time she was 13/14. I couldn’t believe, and I didn’t get into the detail of this with her, but I just couldn’t believe that, that a child would make, this up.
RT: And how would you characterise your relationship with your brother, who you believed had sexually abused your niece, how would you characterise your relationship with Liam after that revelation?
GA: Well, he’s still my brother, and, and, I’ve never disowned him. Uh, he, he left..
RT: Were ever you tempted to?
GA: Yes and no. He left the country, both, both sets of parents, he had separated from his wife Sally who is Aine’s mother, and, and both left independently of each other, left, left Ireland. Uh… So… later on, I discovered that my father was an abuser, and, ah, I was told that around 19 – 96, and I brought all of my siblings together, and that included my brother Liam. And we tried to work through, this, absolutely horrifying, you know, I was a man, ah, in my 50’s, ah, I, I had been out of my family home from 1969, and we are a large family so, you know, some of my siblings would be quite young, probably, and some of the youngest ones may be in their mid or late 30s now. So, this was just a horrifying thing to come to terms with.
RT: What did you think when you heard that, when somebody says, Gerry, your father is sexually abusing your brothers and sisters?
GA: Well, well, first of all by that time I did know an awful lot more, I, I had got professional advice in my capacity as an elected representative, I had to deal with other victims.
RT: But as your capacity, your capacity as a brother and a son?
GA: Well in my capacity as a son, as a son, uh, to tell you the truth, Ryan, I still haven’t dealt with it adequately.
RT: Why not? What’s taken you so long to deal with these very profound and such close personal issues?
GA: Because, because there are ten of us, and I’m the oldest and in Ireland a lot falls on the oldest, and we are a very, you know, close, close family, but, everybody comes at this differently, so you have ten people, and I don’t want to talk about my own family, they haven’t authorised me to talk about them, but let me just talk about it in a theoretical sense. Some were immediately in denial.
RT: Were you?
GA: No I wasn’t, no.
RT: You accepted it?
GA: I accepted it because of what I had… this is a huge taboo subject in Ireland.
RT: By talking about it, it becomes less taboo.
GA: One of the reasons why, why I wanted to publicise this, was because there are people out there who, are just absolutely destroyed, damaged, by abuse. Abuse of a child is, is the most heinous thing, you know, that, that could ever happen, a child’s life is stolen, a childhood is stolen, and, you know, there are lots of people who can’t have children, and I love children, and to think of, especially an iconic figure, you know, a father, a brother, some cases uncles, whatever, whatever happens to be the family, ah, circumstance.
RT: Gerry, do you, do you love your brother?
GA: I love all my brothers.
RT: Do you love Liam?
GA: I have to say I do, I don’t know what he is alleged to have done, and I do think he has to come to terms with it, and, I, I have talked to him and he has talked to me at, at great length as we tried to get Aine what Aine had wanted and..
RT: Why is Aine so angry at you, why is she, she seems very angry with you from what I gather, why do you think that is?
GA: Well, I think I just have to accept that. There are other..
RT: Did you let her down?
GA: Well, she certainly feels that I did.
RT: She said that when you wrote your autobiography, you wrote in your thank yous, I want to thank my brothers and sisters, especially, especially to Liam.
GA: Well I, I can understand Aine’s angst against me, because Aine is seeking, uh, justice, all I know is, that I did my best, sorry let me finish, in a very difficult, ah, circumstance, and, really, Aine will only get the satisfaction that she deserves and the justice that she deserves when this entire situation has gone through, ah, proper proceedings. The police let her down, the social services let her down, I’m, I’m her uncle. It, it is quite unusual that a member of the family of the alleged abuser would bring the alleged victim to social services, that’s, that’s quite an unusual phenomenon.
If the abuse was happening when he was at home, when he was a child, even if it was not directed at him, he was to some extent also the victim of child abuse.
“If the abuse was happening when he was at home, when he was a child, even if it was not directed at him, he was to some extent also the victim of child abuse.”
In much the same way that those of us that lived through the troubles as children were also abused.
Wee buns
Exactly. We should all be very careful. This country is full of survivors of child abuse. Be very careful how and what we condemn.
Scaramoosh
You appear to have very little empathy for victims of sexual child abuse. I agree all the children in those sectarian ghettos were victims, but how many of them feared going home more than they feared the streets.
‘In much the same way that those of us that lived through the troubles as children were also abused.’
I don’t read that statement of fact as non empathetic.
wee buns
Of course you dont!
Maybe you would like to explain why you do…?
wee buns
In those bad old days all children ran the risk of annoying some activist hardcase or the security forces. Few were sexually abused by either.
Most of the children could have run home and felt safe. Most not all, for some home appears to have been the place they were beaten and raped. In addition they had to go out the next day and be ‘normal children’.
Adam’s did not come across as any thing much, beyond pure Gerry.
Pippakin raises a good point about whether his father abused whilst Gerry still lived at home, as in my experience, especially in a large family, there is very little that goes on in the family home that they kids do not know about. Given his age it is quiet possible he had left home before his dad became an abuser.
One of the questions which Adams has consistently refused to answer and he again touches on it in this interview, when he says he took advice on the matter of pedophile’s. We really need to know whom he went and asked for advice, not least because the main institution within Ireland, the Catholic church, has an appalling history worldwide of giving dangerous advice on this subject.
I fear Gerry Adams turned to the Church for advice and he still believes much of the crap he was told, hence he was comfortable getting his brother a job working with children.
Having said all this Adams is in a dreadful position with this, and is clearly out of his depth and who wouldn’t be. I would not wish this on my worst enemy. I feel it is a major flaw in his character that he believes he can come on TV and prattle around the edges about this, and it will do any good and help who ? I doubt the victim would have been reassure after watching this farce.
Leaving this aside I found his answers about the Robinson’s pitiful, nothing more than playing to the gallery as if he were some non political president of Ireland.
These people have had their hand in the till, Adams has a duty to expose their behaviour, instead he gets the violin out.
Mick Fealty
Politicians are not expected to be able to give up most of their personal lives to their jobs, nor do most of them do so. All most people ask of them is they do their jobs honestly and when they slip up, as most of us do at times, not to wriggle and lie and cover up, as the likes of the Robinson’s and many UK MP’s undoubtedly have.
Less of such nonsense please, your be telling us next politicians work hard and are underpaid, Tell me, how many other families in the north with both partners in full time work earn £500K
plus? Even with ‘legal ‘expenses most MP’s pull in not far from 100K, others much more.
If our public representatives earned the average wage of their constituents we might just get a better type of politician. After all it is difficult to see how we in the UK and Ireland could get any worse. (Iraq, Afghanistan, celtic tiger, and city of London banking crash, ahaaa)
Mickhall
It is possible the abuse started after GA left home, but in my opinion unlikely. All I have read and heard of abusers is they do not start late in life. If it happened he knew. Sadly at that age he would also know there was nothing he could do about it.
I think it is understandable that GA has prevaricated as much as he has. In a tight corner, asked unwelcome questions, his first reaction appears to be prevarication. In addition on this most intimate of subjects getting the truth out of anyone is hard work and very much part of the healing process. It is not something to expect on the Late, late whatsit.
I also think you may be right that he went to the church for advice. It is the first instinct in many of us. It too was wrong. God knows what they would have told him, but we can all guess.
He is a politician but he is also a product of his upbringing. It is to his great credit that he has done so well for himself and for his party. He must now act with even greater courage and deal honestly with a subject most of us would run away from.
By comparison being a cuckold is not only a subject for sympathy and even humour. It is also easy!
I was questioning this assumption: ‘You appear to have very little empathy for victims of sexual child abuse’, not the experiences of child victims of war or sexual abuse, between which there are obvious connections, which may have been partly Scaramooshe’s point.
Back to Gerry. He would appear to be to some degree a victim of child sexual abuse, which may explain (not excuse) to some degree his failings (insensitivy and more)in dealing with abuse. It is complex. Certainly unprecendented.
In terms of child survivors we must be careful not to hoist a hierarchy of victimhood thereupon. The damage from the ‘bad old days’ is not over by a long shot as the number of traumatized (now) adults attempt to lead ‘normal’ lives. This episode is an opportunity to address that pityful lack of funding, focus, compassion on behalf of the institutions for victims.
Pippakin
He is a politician but he is also a product of his upbringing. It is to his great credit that he has done so well for himself and for his party.
A lot of people died because of the hardness of his upbringing that led him into the IRA allegedly.
When I was growing up there were tough children like Gerry Adams around and I can only have pity on them now. God knows what they were going through in their own homes.
Yes, Gerry is a product of his upbringing and the product that Gerry brought to this world was toughness and anger that generated a strategy that is in effect the rejection of Christianity’s sword (of using embarrassment) in favour of armed struggle (or the tactical use of human suffering). Thank God he failed or the world would have turned into hell on earth.
In the end he has refused to say that violence was wrong and I cannot therefore believe that he consciously understands what he has committed himself in the political sphere. There is no logic to ending violence and not rejecting it unless you think you’ll have to go back one day. Do you think he might resign then in disgrace? Not a chance probably.
wee buns
Empathy is knowing or seeking to know the difference between the child at risk on the streets and the child at even more risk in his or her own home.
I totally agree, GAs problems hilight an area we have been reluctant (to say the least) to discuss.
All of the children of those ghettos were victims and it is to the enormous credit of most people that they do lead such, apparently, ‘normal’ lives. We should indeed invest in research and assistance to those who suffered during those times.
John O’Connell
GA may have been, almost certainly was, hardened by his upbringing, but he was not solely responsible for the trouble on the streets. A hard, tough kid growing up where he did. He had to be able to make some tough decisions.
I am not condoning what he or others did. I am keeping strictly to the subject of child abuse and how his, possible, exposure to it from an early age, almost certainly affected every aspect of his life.
We are on the road to a united Ireland and I know you want that as much as any of us. You must know we are so far up that road largely because of Gerry Adams and Martin McGuinness. If only because they both knew, and had the power, to say: its time to talk!
Pip. I disagree: Empathy is an all inclusive recognition of suffering. There is no research needed to know that war results in trauma, yet the GFA has zero provision for that, which is in itself an abuse of the people. The Rape Crisis Centre being broke says it all.
Mickhall:
‘Having said all this Adams is in a dreadful position with this, and is clearly out of his depth and who wouldn’t be. I would not wish this on my worst enemy.’
I agree and also wonder, who, if anyone, does his (or anyone’s) commentary help.
wee buns
You are right of course, but in order to fully empathise with someones plight you need to be able to distinguish between levels of hurt. It is quite possible to have grown up in a war situation and yet to have felt safe and protected at home. Not everyone had that. Empathy is about knowing the difference.
As for your parting shot about this and other commentary. I think it is long overdue, perhaps one day we will be able to say this is where real healing began. Not just for Gerry Adams, but for any other victims of abuse who read this and other articles. At least we can say the subject is in the open and we are talking. Perhaps the government will, seeing the strength of anger and feeling here, begin to address the problem properly, It is time they provided real funding and support. Gerry Adams himself says he is talking, partly because he finally has to, but also because he recognises he may help someone else.
Lastly we are still awaiting an arrest warrant for Liam Adams, charges to be formerly placed against those accused of rape. It is important no one be allowed to think any of this is forgotten.
The problem for Sinn Fein at the moment is that Gerry Adams himself has become the story. When that happens the leader is doomed and must fall on his sword as this situation puts any message the Party wishes to “get out” onto the back burner. Sinn Fein may look reasonably good on paper in the South but realisticly are in free fall as the ship jumpers in the last few months attest to. Even in NI they are looking decidedly shakey, in Tyrone recently several senior Party heads were almost ran out of a gathering in Galbally. In the Mid Tyrone area the complaint is that nobody ever see’s or hear’s tell of Pat Doherty, absentee MP. SF have walked themselves into a perfect storm. They have become the Fainna fail of NI because of their closeness to builders and developers and the way they use their weight to influence Planning up here. Fainna Fail are still in Government as are SF in NI, however this will not be the case for ever. Once the news gets out that they have been seeing to thmselves at the expense of others it will be lights out for quite a few Republicians who now enjoy a lavished lifestyle as servants of the crown. Gerry has had a good ride as party leaders shelf-lives go but right now it’s time he went and dealt with the disturbing crimes within his own family and retired from political life altogether. It would free up so many people within SF to re-examine where the republician movement is headed and do a great service to the country as a whole as stagnation benifits no one.
pippakin
We are on the road to a united Ireland and I know you want that as much as any of us. You must know we are so far up that road largely because of Gerry Adams and Martin McGuinness.
Actually I believe that we’re presently on the road to an independent Northern Ireland where the Green and Orange forget their differences which aren’t much and acknowledge their similarities. The ensuing state will be, I fear, a state with an Old Testament value system and will be a thorn in the side of every state in the region like Israel. That’s what Gerry Adams and Martin McGuinness mean to me.
Only non-violent social democracy (SDLP) can actually deliver on a united Ireland.
John O’Connell
If you are right it will be much reduced in size and I am not sure it would be economically viable.
The SDLP and S/F want a united Ireland. If we can get to the point where the children of unionist families have grown up without the hatred and violence of the past, then they will have a clear, clean choice, what makes you think they would vote for a mini Israel? Or that the state could a) afford it or b) expect the Brits to pay for it.
Los Lobos
Why should GA step aside permanently? I agree he should step aside until the trials are over, but he is not implicated in the alleged acts. He is said to have been mistaken in his dealings with the alleged victims.
It is not a hanging or retiring offence for him. The big mistake is to think this can be brushed aside. It cannot, any accused who are members of S/F must be suspended pending the result of trials.
Pippakin
Economics would be the least of our problems. But it might be quite a succesful state in terms of supporting business, but it will of course need to be bailed out by UK/USA/EU.
If we can get to the point where the children of unionist families have grown up without the hatred and violence of the past, then they will have a clear, clean choice, what makes you think they would vote for a mini Israel?
You’re much too naive if you believe that that is how things are forgotten about. The reality is that the unionists will never forget because they have a reason for not forgetting – they fear a genocide at some point and violence from republicans simply fuels that fear. Only a complete break from violence through Christian repentance can break the logjam. A complete change of heart is needed before the unionist changes his paranoid fears.
John O’Connell
Then the sooner we stop the violence the better dont you agree.
You are right there are some who are bought up on loyalist traditions, they are the minority among unionists, they will not get stronger unless we feed their paranoia.
It is true some do fear a form of genocide. In the past some would say we have given them cause to fear. It is up to us to reassure them. We cannot expect them to change their minds if everything we do feeds their fears.
pippakin
But it is the past that lives on in them. It used to be said that every bullet fired by the IRA was a nail in the coffin of a united Ireland. There is truth in that and it lives on. Republicans need to change their attitude to the past from one that eulogizes violence (armed struggle) to one that accepts that it was a mistake.
John O’Connell
I totally agree!
A bullet or bomb loses the vote of the victim, his family, friends, neighbours, the list is almost endless!
We cannot hope for true repentance from people who consider their part in the violence bought us to where we are. It would be wrong and in a way it would be denying a truth. It is true that until the violence fully erupted the Brits were quite happy to leave the north to its own sectarian devices. The Brits neglected the north and it has cost them.
It is the youth of today we must persuade and we can do that if we approach as equals, nothing else will work. We will have to embrace these horrible marches, accept they are a part of a tradition that is as much Republican as it is Loyalist. It takes two to tango, and it takes two to fight a war.
Those marches are as much a part of our history as anything else. Imagine how great the marches will be when there is a united Ireland. We wont notice these little marches by comparison!
Liam Adams was a member of the Provos, and that organisation handed control of its member vetting department (Internal Security Unit) to British agents (JJ Magee and Freddie Scappaticci – other agents in this unit included Kevin Fulton, Eamon Collins and Roy McShane) who were appointed to those positions by Gerry Adams.
The Internal Security Unit had the purpose of detecting agents within the ranks of the Provos/Shinners and of ensuring that new recruits were not compromised or capable of being compromised. Since this unit was controlled by agents, it doesn’t take a rocket scientist to figure out it could not perform its denoted purpose. Having the actual purpose of protecting agents within the ranks of the Provos/Shinners and ensuring that compromised recruits were allowed into the Provos/Shinners and that the uncompromised and uncompromising were kept out.
That is why the Provos/Shinners had a policy of not removing sex offenders from the ranks of the Provos/Shinners. They presented a huge security risk to the organisation because they were highly susceptible to being controlled by the security services via blackmail and coercion. They were included because they were a security risk.
So Gerry can act as innocent as he likes, but he knows why he did what he did – and it has nothing to do with ignorance about how to handle child sex abuse.
Alias
This takes us into the realms of agents, double agents and who knows how many versions of the same thing.
If child abusers were reported to the police or dealt with privately there would have been no need to worry about infiltrators of that description. I am not a supporter of Gerry Adams but I have to say I have noticed that some people seem more concerned with using this tragedy to bring him down, than with dealing with the appalling subject of child abuse.
pippakin
“We are on the road to a united Ireland…You must know we are so far up that road largely because of Gerry Adams and Martin McGuinness.”
Whatever the merits of a united Ireland, kindly describe just how far up that road you think we are – to give you a prompt: how much further are we than we were at the time of Sunningdale?
I also offer you a counter-proposition: We are much further away now from a united Ireland than we were in 1969, because of the bitterness and polarisation caused by the so-called ‘armed struggle’ of SF/IRA – which Adams fully supported and probably took part in.
For what it’s worth, I thought he did quite well given the personal sensitivity of the issues being put to him by Tubridy, and I though RN’s transcript really didn’t need to include the hmmmms.
DerTer
Martin McGuinness has won the, admittedly, grudging respect of many in the unionist community. So I think we are further along the road than many people think.
We will not gain the hardliners, but we may gain their childrens vote. It is not so long to wait and I see a relaxation in many unionists and that means opportunity.
I thought GA did ok in the interview. As well as could be expected anyway. It is a difficult subject for anyone and the closer we are to victims the harder it gets.
I knew of a case where the victim was disowned by her family because she reported her abuser – and he was guilty – and the family knew it!
pippakin I don’t know how plain you want it. I have already said why GA should stand down, he has become the story himself and his cadre of underlings are bloating themselves as servants of the crown. No party can survive that no matter how much they may wish to, no party can dine on he past glories of sickos and hope it will be accepted as the truth- it won’t. Everywhere Mr Adams goes in the future will be dominated by the fact that he didn’t do the right thing with regards to an alleged child abuser. There is the other question of how do you talk to 1 million plus people like me who have no wish to join the Banana/nama Republic across the border, not just because any move in that direction would cause a civil war or because of its basket case economy or indeed because of the shocking criminal behaviour of some of it’s leading Politicans. Whilst all these points are very valid and should be reason enough for any sane individual to even contemplate a United Ireland, they pale into insignifiance compared to the prospect that Gerry Adams and his crew of cut-throats could justify their war on civilians in Northern Ireland for 35 years. They killed the most civilians, they did it in the name of a United Ireland and they are now doing the exact same thing as Fainna Fail- lining their pockets at the expense of those of us who suffered when they had the armalite as well as the ballot box. So no joy can ever be had on that front. The irony now is that they don’t kill us, they just sell whatever isn’t nailed down and make us pay through stealth taxes imposed by their ringmasters. I hope you are a young person pippakin because you will have to live for a very long time to see your dream realised.
Alias, its funny how every outed informant in the IRA is now concluded, by you, to have been in the IRA’s Internal Security Department. Admittedly Fred Scappattici was, but Roy McShane was a middle ranking operative in Turf Lodge who became a Sinn Fein driver for leadership figures. Eamon Collins was an Intelligance operative in the Newry area and Kevin Fulton or Peter Keilly is a self publicist seeking a war pension.
Los Lobos
I am sorry you are so bitter and I do understand why. I am not so young that I dont remember those days, such pain and anger. But it was not a one way street, there are guilty people on all sides.
Ireland is in debt, but so is the UK, in fact most of Europe is in debt. The days of easy bail outs are gone.
The child abuse scandal in S/F will be dealt with, if S/F have not put themselves out of reach of implication they will suffer when the cases go to court.
I know the Catholic community has serious problems with child abuse, but so does the protestant community, Kincora was not, I am sure, an isolated case and as we become more open, more scandals will emerge.
If you look at politicians in Ireland and the UK you will see that compared to some European states our politicians are squeaky clean!
The politicians you refer to as selling the family silver, are almost all Brits and it started with Thatcher!
I am sorry you feel such anger and pain. I hope time will show you that it is no longer necessary.
Los Lobos
Gerry Adams and his crew are in Government in N.Ireland. The people in the South do not want them.