Republican reaction to ‘big deal’
Updated to add éirígí video.
Today saw the latest ‘deal’ between constitutional Nationalism and Unionism. Cheerleaders were very much the order of the day in the media but we also saw decent coverage for a dissenting Unionist voice and the not quite dissenting yet UUP.
I’ve cast my eye around Republican websites to see reaction there. éirigí were not only quick out of the traps but seemed to have a fully formed ‘campaign’ ready to go.
First some highlights from their press release:
“While today’s announcement was heavy on spin, it was very light on detail. It is clear, however, that the DUP and Sinn Féin have agreed some form of trade-off on the issues of policing and sectarian marches….“The document released at Stormont today outlines an 11 month process designed to address the issue of sectarian marches. Like many republicans and nationalists, I wonder if that process will not simply be a charade of consultation with the outcome already decided….
“On the issue of the limited transfer of powers to Stormont, Leeson continued: “I have no doubt that Sinn Féin and the SDLP will present today’s deal as some form of victory for nationalists and republicans. But instead of victory, today’s deal is nothing but the latest in a long line of defeats at the negotiation table….
“The most basic study of Irish history demonstrates that British governments have always been willing to allow loyal subjects to administer British rule in Ireland – once that loyalty has been established beyond question…
“Stormont can no more deliver on policing and justice than it can deliver on housing, healthcare, employment or education”
Now to the page that looks like the start of an anti-PSNI campaign themed ‘Different Name : Same Aim’ (downloadable posters ready to go – that is preparation!)
Republican Sinn Fein’s reaction was a little less polished:
Provos to enforce British Rule
Statement by the President of Republican Sinn Féin Des Dalton
With the fervour of political converts the Provos cannot wait to administer
British Police and British Justice in Ireland.As they don the uniforms and carry the weapons of their one-time enemy, it
can be truly said that the ‘poachers have become gamekeepers.’When the new ‘Broy Harriers’ take to the streets under Provo direction
history can be accurately said to be repeating itself.As British rule reaches into the grass-roots in the Six Counties, British
Imperialism in its updated mode seeks to make itself more acceptable. However
history teaches us that it will once more be resisted.
I can’t find anything from the Republican Network for Unity (surprising as that group grew from ‘Concerned Republicans and ex-Prisoners Against the PSNI’), the 32 County Sovereignty Movement or Irish Republican Socialist Party. If you see anything let me know and I’ll update.
Ardoyne Republican has provided a Republican Network for Unity statement in the comments:
HAS DEAL OPENED ROADS FOR ORANGE PARADES – RNU
The REPUBLICAN NETWORK for UNITY (RNU) spokesperson, DANNY MCBREARTY, responding to the concerns of nationalist residents of areas targeted for Orange sectarian parades, asks” whether the DUP has been given ’product’ in the form of changed procedures designed to ease the way for Orange feet to march down nationalist roads.”
“Today’s deal undermines the legal procedures and mechanisms which have blocked Orange marches from trampling on nationalist victims on the Garvaghy Road and other although not all routes. The DUP, advised by the Orange Order, demanded and is apparently satisfied that the new arrangements will deliver product
“Nationalists were told that Sinn Fein was not playing poker and would not pay the price of Orange feet on the Garvaghy Road, or Ardoyne. Residents of those areas now question whether they have been played like poker chips. Has their right to be free of sectarian Orange parades in their areas been bartered away beneath the political cover of a deal that has satisfied the DUP and Orange Order? Have the DUP and Orange been told that such parades could not be granted outright, but would be delivered in the guise of new arrangements designed to yield results to their liking?
“We challenge Republicans to look at how much has been given up to achieve so little. The entitlement of the SDLP to head the ministry was given up and a DUP veto awarded in exchange for this compromised Stormont ministry. Like constabulary boards and partnerships, this watered down ministry will not make the British constabulary accountable but merely made Sinn Fein accomplices.
“RNU will continue to confer with residents in these areas and will support join with other nationalists and Republicans to support them against any attempt to facilitate Orange marches in their streets.”
Have to agree with u on that Mark.. I too have met Brendan and in no way found him to be bigoted… one of the first things i looked for this morn was the statement from the G.R.R.A. i found it to be calm and measured and not jumping on anyones band wagan…. just because brendan has moved to another political organisation the res committee still meet with members of Sinn Fein, he reconises he’s a rep for all of that community not just himself…
Mark McGregor
Its a toughie isnt it.
In all honesty, so far as I am concerned, absolutely NO ONE is expendable.
Perhaps though, it is time for GRRC to make a gesture. A time to be as generous.
Pippakin that can work both ways…. Y not the Orange order meet the Residents on an official capacity….At least acknowledge them
Garvaghy and Lower Ormeau are no longer contentious marches they no longer exist and never will again.
This new body can concentrate on Workmans ave/ Springfield and Ardoyne.
We could all be jumping the gun here as well….if i’m honest i think the DUP will have real problems selling this to the grass roots
nollaig a chara
Perhaps the deliberate breaking of British Legion windows is cowardly, juvenile and a reminder of the kind of injustice most people fear. Perhaps it reminded them of the kind of people they once were. Who knows.
I take no interest in Garvaghy Road, even less in GRRC. I suspect their time has been and gone. How many residents associations are worth a comma, never mind a headline.
that wasn’t the point i was trying to make pippakin a chara u refered to brendan as a bigot i was merley pointing out that i disagreed with u
Mark,
A poll about John Terry?
lol he’s not the first and won’t be the last
nollaig a chara
Shh. How can I put this: I know.
Doesnt alter the facts does it.
pippakin
Shh.. How can I put this:
really depends on how u interperate ‘facts’
nollaig a chara
Facts are not statistics. Statistics get up and dance for you, facts, they stay right where they are, unblinking and unbending.
I was just thinking, the very ‘fact’ we are still arguing, shows how very ‘Irish’ we are.
You gotta love it!
@Pikakin: Brendan Mc K is a person of above average intelligence, a feature rarely found in the unquestioning bigot.
Divine psycologists for those who insist on the ‘sacred right’ to march, a sterling idea, given that 1795 was the first commemoration of B o’Boyne at Drumcree, then in 1832 the OO defied the law by marching the Garvaghy route going out of their way to pass the catholic church & excite breaches of the peace (read as: no recent or frivilous beef certainly not due to youth unemployment.)
That the OO associated with such savoury characters as Mc Clinton, Wright & Spence, then refuses to talk to residents because they are ‘terrorists’:hypocrosy of the tallest order; at least Brendan Mc K (unlike the above mentioned) has not killed anyone.
Individual lodges who behave badly at contentious marches should be banned/suspended lodge by lodge; the trouble disassembled thus, brick by brick.
[i]Does anyone think that we will be a “United Europe” before a “United Ireland” dream is realised?[/i]
[url=http://www.amazon.com/United-States-Europe-Superpower-Supremacy/dp/1594200335]The United States of Europe: The New Superpower and the End of American Supremacy [/url]
Good read.
Posted by oneill on Feb 05, 2010 @ 10:22 PM
“It is how the people he must at some stage reach agreement with, see him.”
You keep hoping that even bombers of British Legion Halls may one day see the logical deadend that their attitudes are leading “their community”.
But once he got his “victory”, he saw no need to reach out to those beyond his own narrow communal and sectarian boundaries. Until he does then he remains in my eyes as much an unreconstructed bigot as those who attempted to walk down “his” roahttp://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/823511.stmd without “permission”.
oneill
I think it’s more that Nationalists saw the sectarian orange order in Portadown, under the local leadership of district master Harold Gracey, for what they really stood for, and how they embraced loyalist terrorism for their own needs.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/823511.stm
Perhaps the unreconstructed bigots are those who were happy to enlist the help of murderers within the UVF & UDA, in an attempt to march down ‘their’ neighbours road.
The deadend occured when those in orange sashes became one with Billy Wright & Johnny Adair.
Belfast county grand master Dawson Baillie – ‘The Orange Order is a very broad church and it’s not my responsibility to say to people they can’t be members of various organisations’ (Speaking about members of the order taking part in loyalist paramilitaty displays)
Deputy Grand Master of Belfast Brother McMordie “They are on our side (uvf/uda) and continue to defend the orange order”
Senior Belfast orangeman Billy Mawhinney said that the uvf & uda were an integral part of the unionist commuinity and are the protectors of the protestant people
unreconstructed bigots oneill ??
Wee buns
If only it were that simple! The winner cannot afford to gloat. The winner has to come up with ‘martial aid’. Its what happened in the 2nd world war. The Brits got the national debt. The Germans got martial aid. Thats what it takes to win the future, not just the ‘war’
The Orange orders have more than their fair share of bigots. The orders lean toward bigotry to begin with, but so does anyone who refuses to meet the ‘opposition’ half way.
If we use the Brits, and we would have to use the Brits, to enforce something we would not do if they were this side of the border, then we are wrong, we give the orders a stick to beat us with, and we make the future harder for everyone.
In the debate over this deal, I think some of this is what would be classed (in the current Mallie-speak) as ‘cloud cover’. It doesn’t matter what so-called ‘republican’ dissident websites say, they have no political support. A vote for this deal will be delivered in the Assembly by SF on the nationalist side.
The real question is, between now and then, since today was merely theatrics with a piece of paper and not a formal vote in an electoral assembly – can the DUP actually deliver a yes on the day? That is what is going to either resonate with some of the stuff on the dissident websites or undermine them. The nature of the content will probably stay the same no matter what happens. The big difference lies in its potential appeal (depending on what happens next). If the DUP can stay on message on this agreement, both in the letter and, more importantly, in the public and private spirit, they will neutralise some of the sentiment the dissidents are trying to wield. If the DUP continue trying to operate the structures whilst nodding and winking to the galleries, they will merely be affording the dissidents scope to push their arguments, limited and ill-considered as they are.
Personally, I’d be surprised if one or two DUP MLA’s haven’t put on stout hession TUV underwear by Monday and one or two others haven’t refused the party whip by the end of the week. Beyond that I can’t say for certain.
JohnJoe
I agree with you I think PR may have problems bringing his party to the table.
The TUV sits there, the wallflower in the corner waiting to pick up the discarded no hopers.
The dissidents will indeed be watching, their ambition to turn the clock back rests on DUP resolution.
“resident of Republican Sinn Féin Des Dalton”
Who???
Des Dalton….not even a household name in his own household
Pipp,
When I saw your reference to “martial” aid, I thought you were talking about marital aids, lol. All that aside, the post WW2 program was actually the “Marshall Plan”, an idea by General George Marshall.
Being magnanimous in victory is wise. But in a conflict resolution without victory by either side, it makes it a bit harder, don’t you think?
“Stewart”
“unreconstructed bigots oneill ??”
How did you interpret this part of my post?
Until he does then he remains in my eyes as much an unreconstructed bigot as those who attempted to walk down “his” road without “permission”.
look, I’ve even highlighted the relevant part to help you out.
wee buns: …at least Brendan Mc K (unlike the above mentioned) has not killed anyone.
How do you know that Breandán hasn’t killed anyone and that Wright has?
How about having a meeting with no terrorists or ex-terrorists present from either side? Symmetrical and fair…
“The real question is, between now and then, since today was merely theatrics with a piece of paper and not a formal vote in an electoral assembly – can the DUP actually deliver a yes on the day?” JohnJoe
An even bigger question is can these parties, in the event of agreement at this stage, ever agree to pass a law under the powers they will be granted?
“If the Garvaghy Road residents want real equality and peace, they will dump their bigoted chairman, for someone who cares. ”
“Regarding GRRC. I do find him bigoted, but more importantly the various orders he has to deal with find him bigoted.
We will not win a united Ireland by beating the Brits or the Prods to death with a limp lettuce. We have to reach out, cajole, persuade and convince. ” – pippakin
Maybe you should ask the members of the community group in the unionist Edgarstown area of Portadown if they think Brendan was being bigotted when he was instrumental in helping to secure major funding for three long-term projects in that area recently? Or ask those unionists/protestants on a number of other organisations of which he is member in the town which are responsible for tackling social and economic problems? You might be surprised by their responses, pippakin.
Kevsterino
Thank you! My school days were so long ago I had forgotten and remembered only the ‘martial’ part!
Sorry for that, but the fact remains, if you want to win the peace, youve got to give, a lot.
We have much to gain, land, culture, history, old slights. So many have died or been hurt for this. So a few marches, lasting a few minutes once a year. We cant do this?
wje
Surprised to find we feel ‘comfortable’, when we are treated as an ‘important local representative’. No I would not be surprised.
Garvaghy Road made him famous, would he be on those or any other committees if it were not for Garvaghy Road. He has shown no sign of real maturity. He is as bad in his way as the opposition are in theirs. We need to move past this and so does he.
pippakin, I think you’ll find that his involvement in the community and economic development fields pre-dates his role re:Garvaghy and long before it became fashionable for many. Probably why he has the respect of his own community, irrespectives of whether or not he has yours.
Theres always someone to like a guy with a brick in his hand.
He needs to move to the centre. If he will not then someone else must take his place.
The people you are against maybe orange, they maybe loyalist, but they are also Irish. I am not in the market for watching Irish people be humiliated by some guy with a brick! On indeed anyone else!
pippakin, it takes two to Tango, so obviously the I guess you’d expect the OO to also move to the centre ground. Any suggestions. I think mind would be
A transformation to a purely non-political religous organisation.
The removal of all anti-Catholic elements
The exclusion of all ‘kick the Pope’ bands
No political or inflamatory speeches
Commitment to work with the PSNI to remove public drinking, urination, and general drunkiness among supporters.
I think the OO would find people much more willing to accommdate them after doing this, do you agree
HAS DEAL OPENED ROADS FOR ORANGE PARADES – RNU
The REPUBLICAN NETWORK for UNITY (RNU) spokesperson, DANNY MCBREARTY, responding to the concerns of nationalist residents of areas targeted for Orange sectarian parades, asks” whether the DUP has been given ’product’ in the form of changed procedures designed to ease the way for Orange feet to march down nationalist roads.”
“Today’s deal undermines the legal procedures and mechanisms which have blocked Orange marches from trampling on nationalist victims on the Garvaghy Road and other although not all routes. The DUP, advised by the Orange Order, demanded and is apparently satisfied that the new arrangements will deliver product
“Nationalists were told that Sinn Fein was not playing poker and would not pay the price of Orange feet on the Garvaghy Road, or Ardoyne. Residents of those areas now question whether they have been played like poker chips. Has their right to be free of sectarian Orange parades in their areas been bartered away beneath the political cover of a deal that has satisfied the DUP and Orange Order? Have the DUP and Orange been told that such parades could not be granted outright, but would be delivered in the guise of new arrangements designed to yield results to their liking?
“We challenge Republicans to look at how much has been given up to achieve so little. The entitlement of the SDLP to head the ministry was given up and a DUP veto awarded in exchange for this compromised Stormont ministry. Like constabulary boards and partnerships, this watered down ministry will not make the British constabulary accountable but merely made Sinn Fein accomplices.
“RNU will continue to confer with residents in these areas and will support join with other nationalists and Republicans to support them against any attempt to facilitate Orange marches in their streets.”
Post updated with éirigí campaign video.
Mark,
Would U include the above RNU statement in the main thread?
AR,
Can you give me a link for it. I can put highlights in the blog but the whole thing is too long.
As I said on another thread it doesn’t matter if republicans disarm or not to some they’ll always be terrorists and thats all. Just watched this video and got depressed, scenes from the past dark old days.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sDEI_bjhcZ0
fin
Oddly enough yes. Er tell me does the Protestant Church insist ‘mixed’ marriages christen and raise any offspring as Protestant? Or would that be the Catholic Church, doubtless anxious to maximise the number of children available to abuse.
Truth is I have no respect for any church, and find guilt equal on both sides.
My sincere belief is we will win the north, we are so close now, it saddens and angers me that something as petty as people parading down a street could be used to stir up hatred on either side.
It does indeed take two to tango, but the only time to be generous is when youre winning. At any other time it looks a lot like surrender.
Is that TUV in the video looking to begin it all again? Looking to squash taigs underfoot. Never again Jim Alister right enough, turn your own words on yourself.
http://www.rsf.ie/saoirse/current/jan10.pdf
RSF’s most recent Saoirse is out. It makes interesting reading. O’Bradaigh’s grand niece dies (for Irish freedom?) and a long list of toadies put their names together in the obit column.
Lots of CIRA type colour parties with Volunteers, most of whom have their OAP bus passes.
Lots of in breeding with their elite. Still, some sense too.
Read what they say about the birth of the Provos.
Dreamland. They would argue, what if the dream come true.
“Oddly enough yes. Er tell me does the Protestant Church insist ‘mixed’ marriages christen and raise any offspring as Protestant? Or would that be the Catholic Church, doubtless anxious to maximise the number of children available to abuse.”
er, no, Pippikin, you’re quite some decades behind the times, suggest you do a bit of reseach on the Catholic church, children of mixed marraiges can be raised as any religion.
Ah child abuse, I was bemused at the avalance of posts surrounding SF and the Catholic church and child abuse, yet the mumbled apology and admission of the Oz and British of the use of 500,000 children exported to Oz for slave labour and sexual abuse (which went on until the end of the 60′s) warrented (I believe) one post, can you point me to your comments on that?
Then back to religion does the Pope or Catholic church label the leader of any other religion the ‘anti-christ’
Anyway pip, you still didn’t answer my question around the OO also moving to the middle ground,
Oh, Pip lets not forget about all the Iraqi babies who have died from sanctions and more recently from 500 lb bombs been dropped on them, then there’s the Afgan kids, then there’s ………..
fin
I think the crucial part is ‘quite some decades behind’. The whole subject of parades is decades behind the times. My note was meant to point that out: what was is not what is.
As for child abuse, whilst I am interested in other countries problems, I am concerned with the children of this country. I believe we should have a new investigation into Kincora, and open investigations into child abuse in every parish in Ireland. Catholic, Protestant, whatever.
For too long we have ignored the abuse of children. Oh we knew, how many children were threatened with being handed to the brothers/sisters, if they did not behave. Cruel places we called them, and then we sent our children there.
No more cover ups, no more distractions about the nasty English. The English can deal with their own problems. Did you know that at one time there were more children in institutions in Ireland than there were in England? That was said on RTE a few months ago.
As for the Parades issue and Garvaghy Road I think we are in sight of our goal. If we work it right we will have a united Ireland in the forseeable future. We can afford to be generous and we have to be, the alternative is we look as though we are no better than the OOs.
‘quite some decades behind’ I’m confused that comment was in relation to your knowledge of the Catholic church,
Got to say I’m futher confused nay concerned re your atitude towards child abuse, personally I would have expected anyone would be concerned with its presense anywhere. Out of interest does that mean you would be more concerned about a Polish child being abused in Dublin rather than an Irish child being abused in London, heartless I’d say and weird.
Regarding your still non answer re parading, the obvious answer is you are generous in victory, not generous when you’re nearly there, that often results in defeat.
fin
I knew that sentence sounded odd! I meant that the Catholics have changed and so have the protestants. Not all of them, theres hatred and distrust on both sides, we see it clearly here on Slugger. The few should not prevent the majority moving forward.
As for your confusion regarding child abuse. Tough! I refuse to be sidetracked. I am here, there is a problem here, that should be the main concern of every adult in this country. If a child is being abused or at risk of being abused we should be dealing with it, not hiding behind a church or a party. The nationality or religion are irrelevant and you should know that.
The answer regarding parades is in the first paragraph. We must not allow old hatred, old hurt, to prevent us moving forward, nor should we allow those old hurts to influence the way we treat our fellow citizens.
Sorry pippakin; only to observe that many of your views come across as being perscriptive, mais tristement sans substance (read as possibly purposefully provocative or troll-like but, perhaps it’s simply down to lack of experience. Again sorry, at this stage, too numerous are the examples to quote.) Keep right on with the caring, nonetheless.
@Reader: you asked : ‘How do you know that Breandán hasn’t killed anyone and that Wright has?’
I was refering (to the best of my limited knowlege) to convictions (mere legality i understand.)
@RNU “Today’s deal undermines the legal procedures and mechanisms which have blocked Orange marches from trampling on nationalist victims on the Garvaghy Road”
Genuinely interested question: How so?
pippakin…
I feel u miss the point about still regarding Brendan Mac he is elected as the spokesperson of that res group…therefore it is the ppl from that area who feel that he is represcenting there res committee best….
Wee buns
We cannot have a united Ireland unless all the people are equal, that means in every road and street. If we can gather to parade so can other citizens. The sooner some of us acclimatise to real equality the better.
As for my caring nature. You bet it aint going no where. It was right here all day yesterday, when some people might have thought it was ‘out of sight out of mind’. And, here I am again, talking child abuse and rape!
Nollaig a chara
No, no, you are the one missing the point. I dont care how many supporters he has. I dont even care which church they go to, if any. I care that there is a crucial section of society he cannot, for whatever reason, talk to, and it is the votes of those people we hope to gain. If you are asking me do I think ten minutes down Garvaghy Road once a year is worth those votes. Now, how can I put this: YES!!!
We cannot have a united Ireland unless all the people are equal,
Can we change that to “unless all the people have equality of opportunity” ?
I agree with the rest of your point, and with oneill as well. I don’t see that the GRRC “won a battle”, instead I think the Parades Commission chose to reroute the parade in question on the basis that, largely because of the attitude of the Orange Order, no agreement could be obtained on the matter.
My expectation is that there will have to be a deal brokered at talks with the GRRC and the local Orange Order up front.
I personally see the OO as an anachronism. Left to their own devices, they’ll die out.
Comrade Stalin
Exactly, we keep giving these outdated orders ammunition and then act surprised when they use it.
The Parades Commission, if they dont disappear completely now, will do exactly what their masters tell them. Brit or Irish makes no difference.
How about if the Orange Order are let down the Garvahy road a little bit every year.
Devide the distance by about 25 years. Eventually the OO gets down the road and the residents grow a tolerance for them as the years go by.
This would test the stickability of both sides. (I detest people that are just in stuff for the short term)
In 25 years….well who the fook cares ! !