Conservatives in talks over unionist unity with UUP, AND the DUP…
The Conservatives and the leaderships of the Ulster Unionists and the Democratic Unionist Party held secret talks in England over the weekend, aimed at realeising unionist unity and copper fastening maximum unionist support for a future Conservative government, should there be a hung parliament. Speaking tonight a Conservaitve spokesperson said Mr Paterson held private talks with a number of senior unionist politicians in England. The purpose of which to help greater political stability.It is already known that the Conservatives had an electoral pact with the Ulster Unionists, but the involvement of the Democratic Unionists comes as a surprise. They were represented at the talks by no less than Peter Robinson, Nigel Dodds and Sammy Wilson.
The discussion revolved around the question of Unionist unity and possibility of a global unionist support in the eventuality of a hung parliament.
The negotiations at Stormont are reaching a critical points with SF being prescriptive in demanding the full implementation of the St Andrews Agreement and nothing less. DUP insiders are saying “It’s not a case of a deal at any price”.
Tonight the Irish Foreign Minister Micheal Martin is having talks with Martin McGuinness and will later meet with the Northern Irish Secretary of State, Shawn Woodward.
Unionist unity = DUP dominance = NI in the UK departures lounge.
Have the UUP failed to notice this?
Is this the same journalist who compromised Patrick Mayhew? In ten weeks time Owen Patterson will be trusted by David Cameron, backed hopefully by a very substantial majority, to be Secretary of State for Northern Ireland; and will be responsible for all its inhabitants,regardless of age,gender,class,political affiliation etc.etc.
Mr Patterson, who has spent more time in this province than any other previous Shadow Secretary of State, has done this in a very controlled and quiet manner without using the spin and leaking techniques of his many predecessors since 1997.
Someone has leaked these talks; that appear to have been held somewhere in England away from the totally feverish hothouse of Northern Ireland; if he had not in view of the fact that he will be the next Secretary of State. It would have been totally irresponsible not to have held this meeting in attempt to bring stability to this troubled Province; which if we are not all sensible,less intemperate and tolerant could well return to the bad old days.
Mr Mailley in this case appears to be exercising total speculation whilst possibly being used by unprincipled politicians to stir the pot against the Conservatives and Unionists, who are on the up and trying to bring sense and proper governance to this province. Recent weeks have shown a complete necessity for this initiative following on from Owen Patterson’s meetings with all the Northern Ireland Party leaders on the 4th. of this month.The likely culprit might well be a potentially split DUP and this potentially irresponsible act of political point scoring could well compromise any trust between the DUP and any incoming Conservatives and Unionists administration.
who was there from the UUP and how can they claim not to have been informed of the current negotiations going on? who is lying?
This unionist will be voting for the SDLP before he’ll ever vote for the fucking tories.
I think there will come a time when the flat earthers that are left in the DUP in fact do go off and join the TUV.That might well come after P and J is devolved.
Its just being on radio ulster that the talks were to get both unionist parties to talk on the issue of P and J and to bring some stability around the issue.
This unionist wont be voting UCUNF if they do a deal with the DUP.
Talk about snatching defeat from potential victory.
Is Eamonn Mallie on the cooking sherry again:
‘realeising’
‘Mr Paterson held private talks with a number of senior unionist politicians in English’ (now corrected)
This is a complete non-story. It is sensible for all Unionists to discuss such issues. SF/PIRA & the SDLP often hold talks with politicians in the RoI. We all know that Mallie is a Nationalist with an agenda. This story is no big deal.
Dear, oh dear everyone is in such a flap.
1. The Tories wont need the DUP
2. Doesnt anyone get the contexts of this?
Sean Woodward does, he’s been keeping Owen Paterson massively in the loop as he knows rightly the Tories are likely to be the next government. The Tories are also enablers at this stage to help sell P&J. Bearing in mind they will get to deal with any hash put together for the expediency of a photo op for Mr Brown they need to be involved.
Remember lads Tony left an awful ot of loose ends to get his big prize before he walked off to a lucrative speaking career. The bringing together of Paisley & McGuinness registered with the British public for once.
Gordo wants a real nice photo op just in time for an election and he’ll leave a hash as well if he gets that moment in the sun.
Its realpolitik. For the Tories to be looking at covering their arses for a hung parliament is politics lads, nothing more, nothing less but as I have described, there is more to it.
Sadly in our little myopic state here we dont notice that, we dont notice wider issues of the union, the Scottish Nationalists etc. Course we dont, instead we get hilarious ideas that the DUP will come along and say ‘Here Davy Cameron, get that fenian off the ticket in South Belfast..cos he’s a fenian…’
We complain about our politcians as the epitome of a sectarianism. From what I can see, they are only reflecting & representing their voters wishes lads.
As a UUP supporter, very mixed feelings on this.
‘complete non-story’
….oh abc123 you sound like a SF PR man.
If the DUP Conservatives and UUP could pull this off it would have huge consequences. It would consolidate a centre block of the vast majority of conservative and unionist opinion that wants the deal to be implemented and the politicians to get on with it. It would build that confidence that Gregory talks so much about. Against that background the deal could be done and we could all look to create a new political mood in NI of partnership between Unionism and nationalism on implementing the deal we all voted for.
It would also stabilise the institutions and provide the platform on which NI politics can not just look inwards but look up and out to national UK politics. What can be more Unionist than that? What can be more Unionist than being part of a party of National Government? What too could be better for all of Northern Ireland than being seen to play at part at that level and not be consigned as some political swamp?
This is a huge opportunity and our politicians should grab it with both hands. So perhaps now is the time for bravery and vision. To borrow a phrase “Tiocfaidh ár lá!” – let’s grab it and get on with it.
I’ve just finished watching the remake of the Planet of the Apes on TV and I think I’ve just joined Mark Wahlberg in his parallel universe.
Irene Foster saying ‘He hasn’t gone away, you know’ and Cynic2 saying ‘Tiocfaidh ár lá!’ But my suspension of disbelief has been altogether shattered by the thought of the possibility of up to a million unionists, including a very large section of its working and (increasingly) non-working class, going out to vote for a shower of millionaire Old Etonians!
To mix metaphors (and films!) I can merely quote Hal, the rogue computer, from 2001: A Space Odyssey, ‘I’m afraid. I’m afraid, Dave. Dave, my mind is going. I can feel it. I can feel it. My mind is going. There is no question about it. I can feel it. I can feel it. I can feel it. I’m a… fraid’.
Sorry, my mind really is going!
It’s ARLENE Foster, of course.
It would also stabilise the institutions and provide the platform on which NI politics can not just look inwards but look up and out to national UK politics. What can be more Unionist than that? What can be more Unionist than being part of a party of National Government? What too could be better for all of Northern Ireland than being seen to play at part at that level and not be consigned as some political swamp?
Posted by Cynic2 on Jan 20, 2010 @ 12:32
Finally we have someone with a bit of vision ! Unionist ideology in a short term sense might sound reasonable, but long term it has absolutely NO future, young people dont give a fiddlers who runs the country. How can Unionists parties present themselves to an electorate who dont care about marching up some other persons road, who dont care about religion, because dont kid yourselves, a lot, (Majority) couldn’t care less about it, try to ingrain, a born with a silver spoon, attitude into young people who now work together, go to college together, work together and socialise together. Do yourself a favour and wake up to the twentieth century. Do you actually believe that they look at the royal family and say, Ah I really feel patriotic about their privileges, they deserve it, I wish I was born into that. Yeah dream on, you will be like the INCAs’ history will deliberately forget about you.
Unless Unionism crosses the Rubicon and trys to be more, Modern, secular, pluralist and generally people friendly, it good night Irene. Why dont you just embrace your Irish family who really care about you, who actually give a fk about your needs and your future we will face it together, fighting for “ALL” of us in our quest, just to survive.
Tacapall
This is one of those ocasions where you can choose your family but, despite that, where did I ever suggest that the lkink with London should bhe the only game in town?
We are British and we are Irish – or at least that’s how I see it although I know that others disagree. You seemed to have missed a key phrase in my post where I talked about creating a ” new political mood in NI of partnership between Unionism and nationalism”. Your suggestion is fine but ignores the perceptions and desires of well over half the population including those prods who see themselves as more Irish and those Catholics who feel their future if better in the UK.
I know, I know. Isn’t it terrible when you enter this ‘alternate reality’ where people might co-operate in their common interest rather than play the old zero sum politics that led to the last 40 years.
Cynic
You talk about unity within unionism in one breath, then you talk about a new political mood…between unionism and nationalism, is that not an oxymoron. The only national government Irish nationalism want any Irish party to be involved in is an Irish government that spreads from the cliff of Antrim to the cliffs Cork. The Tories don’t have much of a good record here and with recent dual attitudes, it looks as though nothing has changed.
What dual attitude I hear you ask. Owen Patterson talks of ending sectarian politics to try attract Catholic voters, while at the same time Cameron talks of a majority led Stormont. Well let me tell you something for nothing, there will never, ever, ever be a majority led Unionist government in this part of Ireland again as they have not got the maturity to be trusted to treat nationalists in the same way as our unionists brothers and sisters.
History is on the side of Irish nationalism!!!
cynic. I’m not sure the recent by election is much of a guide to how the TUV will fare in an assembly election, because the duppers didn’t take part. allister claims they got the 25% they decided they needed to keep their position. Admirable sentiments from a unionist, all credit to you. I fear the dup are overreaching on these talks, so i don’t think an assembly election is far away. I hope it happens before the westminster one, so the dup will take the maximum hit in stormont. I think the UUP will make better partners for SF in any new set up, regardless of who takes top spot.
#
Its just being on radio ulster that the talks were to get both unionist parties to talk on the issue of P and J and to bring some stability around the issue.
Posted by Paul on Jan 19, 2010 @ 11:02 PM
why has reg and others in the UUP been saying they have been informed on the current discussions when clealry they have. WHo was at this meeting and was are the UUP lying that they know nothing about the P+J negotiations?
Nah cynic2, if the UUP/Tories do a deal with that homophobic, hypocritical, bigoted, creationist party known as the DUP I am taking my vote elsewhere.
as they have not got the maturity to be trusted to treat nationalists in the same way as our unionists brothers and sisters….
so tell me what rights or laws apply to unionists that dont apply to nationalists?
So for all the rhetoric about ‘a shared future’ in the end self interest wins ie unionists unite. Leaves Peter McCann’s ‘breath of fresh air’ line a bit redundant?
Garza, there will not be any ‘deal’. I’m sure Cheryl Gillan talks to other Welsh Assembly parties apart from Nick Bourne’s.
The BBC are laughably describing this informal sounding as ‘secret talks’. ie ‘Smoke filled rooms’ as they were previously referred to in an unhealthier age.
driftwood,
why are the UUP still saying they havent been informed about the negotiations on P+J when clearly they have??
grannie trixie
So for all the rhetoric about ‘a shared future’ in the end self interest wins ie unionists unite. Leaves Peter McCann’s ‘breath of fresh air’ line a bit redundant?
The only concrete information about the meeting (as opposed to Eamon mallie’s speculation)we’ve got is:
Conservative spokesman said: “Mr Paterson held private talks with a number of senior unionist politicians in England over the weekend the purpose of which was to help promote greater political stability.”
“Mr Paterson holds many private meetings and we will be making no further comment on the details,”
That’s it.
so tell me what rights or laws apply to unionists that dont apply to nationalists?
Posted by Harry J on Jan 20, 2010 @ 11:00 AM
Harry J with no malice intended,and not knowing your age group, Where have you been this last 40 years, “Equality” has many definations but to Nationalists it seems your definations of it are different than theirs, in many areas like Culture, Identity, Language and obviously “Choice”. The days of privilege is gone for Unionism, try as they might to frustrate and hold back “Change” what type of society can sustain a “One party” choice for the electorate. We are not like fish in a pond, there is a bigger world out there and wheither we like it or not we are part of it. As the European Union gets ever larger and more power and control is “devolved” to them, the issue of sovereignty will be defunct, issues of Legality will be taken by them. We will mearly be a ghetto on the outskirts of Europe. Unionists must embrace change now, so that they together with Nationalists can build a future for our country that is based on Equality and together we can build, plan, for future prosperity and peace.
Harry J with no malice intended,and not knowing your age group, Where have you been this last 40 years, “Equality” has many definations but to Nationalists it seems your definations of it are different than theirs, in many areas like Culture, Identity, Language and obviously “Choice”. ..
again please answer the question, what rights or laws apply to unionists that do not apply to nationlaists ? and who is stopping anyone speaking a foreing language such as irish?
In the interests of fairness when are the Conservatives meeting with Aliance/ Sinn Féin/SDLP.
It would be good for a party that wants to cross the sectarian devide to have constructive meetings with all sections in NI.
Dear Disgusting in Derry
“The only national government Irish nationalism want any Irish party to be involved in is an Irish government”
Well, that’s not what they voted for in a referrendum and elections. But I am sure that you know better than all of them.
And I think you will also find that your fellow countrymen in the Reopublic will shout and roar for a United Ireland after 3 or 4 pints but quietly vote to keep it as far away as possible when sobriety returns. In part I have always though that was because the couldn’t stick the incessent wingeing like your posts on here.
again please answer the question, what rights or laws apply to unionists that do not apply to nationlaists ? and who is stopping anyone speaking a foreing language such as irish?
Posted by Harry J on Jan 20, 2010 @ 01:17 PM
Catholic residents dont have the right to refuse anti catholic parades marching through areas where they are not wanted. They do not have the right to speak in their native tounge in courts of law, and as for being a foreign language, remember what you call this country “Ireland” and Irish is its native tounge, English is the foreign language.
“when are the Conservatives meeting with Aliance/ Sinn Féin/SDLP”
I understand that the Conservatives have met them all on a regular basis? Why would they not? It’s how you do business in politics.
“Catholic residents dont have the right to refuse anti catholic parades marching through areas where they are not wanted.”
You mean that they don’t have the right to be totally intolerant of other cultures and beliefs? Why should they have that right? No-one else in Europe does?
” Irish is its native tongue ” – presumably that;’s why so many people are native speakers? But actually the vast majority of people in Northern Ireland and even Ireland speak English as their first language so your point is purely political
They do not have the right to speak in their native tounge in courts of law,.
their native language would be English, this is an english speaking country. I think youre getting us mixed up with Ireland
Catholic residents dont have the right to refuse anti catholic parades marching through areas where they are not wanted………
Protestants have the same rights as catholics to refuse parades in their area.
Mr Patterson meets with all parties regularly and privately – he is after all likely to be the next SoS, so it would rather be a problem if he didn’t!
But whoever leaked this private meeting to Mr Mallie from the DUP has clearly been trying to cause trouble for the CU pact by sullying it with associations of DUPlicity – clearly some intentional disinformation spreading.
As the BBC report:
A senior Conservative spokesman said the discussions were focused on the current difficulties at Stormont.
The spokesman said: “So far as the Westminster election is concerned, the only deal is the current deal between the Conservatives and the Ulster Unionists.
“We will be putting up 18 Conservative and Unionist candidates at the next election,” he said.
You mean that they don’t have the right to be totally intolerant of other cultures and beliefs? Why should they have that right? No-one else in Europe does?
Posted by Cynic2 on Jan 20, 2010 @ 03:28 PM
If the people of the newtownards road did not want a republican parade marching down it, they would not be marching down it, same as the pro union people of the UK when they banned the “Islam4UK”
Unionist politicians are vocal in their opposition when an ‘insensitive & offensive’ parade is planned for Wootton Bassett yet find it acceptable for the Apprentice boys to be led by a UVF band named after sectarian murderer Brian Robinson, to pass the spot where he murdered his victim.
Harry J
their native language would be English, this is an english speaking country. I think youre getting us mixed up with Ireland
Posted by Harry J on Jan 20, 2010 @ 03:28 PM
http://www.bl.uk/learning/langlit/sounds/find-out-more/northern-ireland/
The Plantation of Ulster that began in 1609 was a planned process of settlement aimed at preventing further rebellion among the population in the north of Ireland. This part of the island was at that time virtually exclusively Gaelic-speaking and had shown the greatest resistance to English colonisation. From the early seventeenth century onwards, Irish lands were confiscated and given to British settlers — or ‘planters’ — who arrived in increasing numbers, bringing the English Language with them. Large numbers of settlers came from southwest Scotland and thus spoke a Scots dialect, while the remaining settlers came predominantly from the north and Midlands of England. By 1830, for instance, Londonderry had a population that was 25% Scots, 25% English and 50% Irish.
Now do you see the difference in the defination of “Equality” between Nationalism and Unionism.
Well can Unionism embrace “Facts” or would you rather stay swimming around in your little pond, wake up to the twentieth century, the horse and cart has been replaced by the automobile, mankind is exploring the stars,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/British_Empire
Political boundaries drawn by the British did not always reflect homogeneous ethnicities or religions, contributing to conflicts in Kashmir, Palestine, Sudan, Nigeria and Sri Lanka. The British Empire was also responsible for large migrations of peoples. Millions left the British Isles, with the founding settler populations of the United States, Canada, Australia and New Zealand coming mainly from Britain and Ireland. Tensions remain between the white settler populations of these countries and their indigenous minorities, and between settler minorities and indigenous majorities in South Africa and Zimbabwe. British settlement of Ireland has left its mark in the form of divided Catholic and Protestant communities in Northern Ireland.
Its not like Irelands problems are unique its all happened before as the facts above show, the common denominator in the conflicts, is Britain. Wake up fellow countrymen and realise where your future lies.