“For my part, I did not know that Liam was a member of Sinn Féin.”
Were there any journalists present when Sinn Féin President Gerry Adams made his declaration of ignorance noted by the BBC? Did they ask any questions? Were any answers offered? Here’s the Irish Times report of Gerry Adams’s declaration of ignorance
“The party in its statement on this acknowledged that Liam was a member of Sinn Féin,” Mr Adams said yesterday. However, he added: “For my part, I did not know that Liam was a member of Sinn Féin. I did know he was in republican circles.” Mr Adams admitted he had met his younger brother around this time despite the fact that they were estranged. “In the interview which I did for the Insight programme [on UTV] I did acknowledge that, although we were estranged, I actually volunteered that we met on a number of occasions.” Asked about apparent inconsistencies between what he said in the UTV interview and photographs of his brother and Sinn Féin leading figures in a Dundalk newspaper, Mr Adams said: “I don’t think there are any questions to answer. But if there are, put the questions. “The fact is that he [Liam] should not have been a member of Sinn Féin and I’m totally certain about that,” he said.
Which “party” statement was that, Gerry? The assertion by [still unavailable to answer queries?] SF TD for Louth Arthur Morgan that “Although [Liam Adams] was a party member, he was never an officer”? Despite the photographic, and archived, evidence that Liam Adams was “Chairman of Louth [Sinn Féin] Comhairle Ceantair” as far back as June 1996? When he was being photographed opening the Dundalk SF offices with Martin McGuinness? And Gerry didn’t just meet his brother during that time, he campaigned with him in Dundalk in June 1997 and smilingly posed with him for the local paper. When, exactly, did Gerry Adams know about his brother’s membership of Sinn Féin? And who in the party knew, if he didn’t?Let’s look more closely, if we can, at Gerry Adams’ story
In his declaration of ignorance he references the UTV Insight programme.
But, as I recall, no mention of Liam Adams’ membership of Sinn Féin was made in that programme. That fact emerged elsewhere.
It was during a subsequent interview with RTÉ’s Tommie Gorman that Gerry Adams stated
[Gerry Adams] “Well I moved when I heard that my brother, my brother moved out of my life and moved out of all of our lives when he went abroad for a while. And then he come back and although I saw him occasionally during that period, maybe a period of 15 years, when I learnt that he was a member of Sinn Féin it was I who moved to get him dumped out of Sinn Féin. When I heard that he was working in youth facilities again I pressed him to leave and with one of the facilities I reported it to the authorities which were responsible for that facility.”
Then, again after reports that Liam Adams had sought to become the Sinn Féin candidate for Louth in the 1997 election, Gerry Adams offered this to the Irish Times
Mr Adams denied that Liam was nominated as a potential Sinn Féin candidate in the Dundalk area after the Sinn Féin leader broke ties with his brother. He said that as soon as he heard of the possibility his brother might be nominated, he moved to ensure that such a thing could not happen. “I moved immediately both to stop that and to get him dumped out of Sinn Féin without telling people why. But I moved very, very quickly. He wasn’t a contender, there was no nomination for Liam Adams in the Dundalk area. There was no convention in which his name was put forward, there was no contest in which he was part of.”
Given that the selection convention was held in October 1996 that places Gerry Adams knowledge of his brother’s membership of Sinn Féin prior to that date – was it before Martin McGuinness was being photographed with the “Chairman of Louth [Sinn Féin] Comhairle Ceantair”?
Eight months after the selection convention Gerry Adams is photographed in June 1997 smilingly posing with his brother on the Sinn Féin canvass in Dundalk.
And, as Suzanne Breen reported in the Sunday Tribune
On 21 December, Gerry Adams had told RTE: “When I heard Liam was in Sinn Féin, and when I heard somebody was putting it about that perhaps he would be a candidate, I moved immediately both to stop that and get him dumped out of Sinn Féin… I moved very, very quickly. He wasn’t a contender. There was no nomination by Liam Adams in the Dundalk area. There was no convention in which his name was put forward.”
Yet on 5 October 1996 – eight months before the canvass – the Dundalk Democrat reported that a selection convention would be held later that month in the Imperial Hotel. It named Owenie Hanratty and Liam Adams as those seeking the nomination.
Contrary to Sinn Féin claims, the convention took place. The Sunday Tribune has statements from republicans present. But not only was Gerry Adams canvassing with Liam eight months after his brother’s name was first publicly mentioned in connection with the nomination, Liam Adams remained a prominent Sinn Féin member afterwards.
The Dundalk Democrat of 15 November 1997 – five months after the infamous canvass – states that Sinn Féin member Liam Adams played a prominent role in the Edentubber 40th anniversary commemoration, just outside Dundalk, to honour five IRA members killed in the border campaign.
“Proceedings were chaired by Liam Adams of Sinn Féin in Co Louth. The main address was given by Sinn Féin national chairman, Mitchel McLaughlin,” the Dundalk Democrat states, The commemoration had taken place six days earlier.
The proven details of Liam Adams’ Sinn Féin activity also totally contradict the party spokesman’s claim in the Irish Independent last Monday.
“Liam was expelled after the [1997] election and as soon as Gerry realised he was in the party he took measures to remove him,” the spokesman said.
Except that previously a “Sinn Féin spokesman” told the Irish News that
“Liam Adams was a member of Sinn Féin for a short time during the 1990s,” he said. “He had lived abroad and when he returned around 1993/94 he started mixing in republican circles in Dundalk. “When Gerry found out he had become a member, he expelled him and that was around 1999.”
If it’s questions Gerry wants, he could start with the ones the Sunday Tribune have been asking for the last three weeks
But those questions we mentioned haven’t gone away, you know. Our Northern Editor Suzanne Breen has posed them two weeks in a row, and I ask them again today, for the record and to highlight the fact that Adams and Sinn Féin have so far refused to answer them (and indeed have lied when they have deigned to deal with the controversy). Why did Adams attend the wedding of his brother and stand smiling for photographs when he believed him to be a paedophile? Why was Liam allowed to be in Sinn Féin for at least seven years? Why in his 1996 autobiography Before The Dawn did Adams make 11 references to “our Liam” with no negative insinuation, almost a decade after he believed he had raped his daughter Aine?
Liam Adams worked for several youth projects in Dundalk and west Belfast. Adams claims that, whenever he became aware his brother held positions, he informed those projects. Where is Adams’ written record of this? Who are the people he spoke to? When Gerry Adams saw Liam so successfully seeking and securing jobs working with young people, why didn’t he make his concerns public? Why did he stay publicly silent when children in his own west Belfast constituency were potentially at risk?
Or the points I raised here
So don’t worry your little heads about questions over his brother Liam’s time in Sinn Féin in Dundalk. Or about questions over his brother Liam’s time in west Belfast between 1998-2006. Or the question of whom, exactly, Gerry claims to have informed at Clonard about those [1987] allegations? Or why, if because of Gerry Adams’ intervention, when Clonard Youth Centre stopped employing Liam Adams in 2003 no-one passed that information any further? Or why the Clonard Youth Centre has no record of anyone raising any concerns? Or why Liam Adams’ employment as a youth worker in west Belfast apparently ended just before Aine Tyrell decided to reactivate the case against her father in 2007 – after 5 years of Gerry Adams promising, but failing, to arrange a meeting between the two? Or any other “stupid” questions. Sure, “It goes with the territory”. Doesn’t it?
We’ve all had a great laugh at Iris and her adultery, financial ‘indiscretions’ and rank hypocrisy, but as Suzanne Breen pointed out on Talkback earlier, the Gerry/Liam Adams case is infinitely more serious.
Someone referred to it as being a ‘slow-burner’ and given the myriad questions already posed, Adams might be well advised to step down as party leader before it all hits the fan.
His woeful media performance during the ROI election and the Mary-Lou debacle really should have beckoned retirement but this story is likely to run and run and can only damage the party.
IMHO Robinson & Adams should both do the decent thing and walk.
We’ve all had a great laugh at Iris and her adultery, financial ‘indiscretions’ and rank hypocrisy, but as Suzanne Breen pointed out on Talkback earlier, the Gerry/Liam Adams case is infinitely more serious.
Someone referred to it as being a ‘slow-burner’ and given the myriad questions already posed, Adams might be well advised to step down as party leader before it all hits the fan.
His woeful media performance during the ROI election and the Mary-Lou debacle really should have beckoned retirement but this story is likely to run and run and can only damage the party.
IMHO Robinson & Adams should both do the decent thing and walk.
Apologies for double post.
Dear Leader also states that he has ‘no intention of resigning’. Bad and all as auld Iris is it appears that she at least has some shame and The Punt is under pressure from within his party for possibly covering for her. Not so with the bearded mythomaniac and his sycophantic shinners.
The soft nature of Gerry’s media treatment is nothing short of a disgrace. Any pleasure that one derives from the plight of the Robinsons is tempered with disgust at kid gloves media approach to dear leader. The Irish Times piece linked above typifies this malaise.
I very much welcome this thread well done peter as as suzzane breen says the adams child abuse case is far more serious and gerry adams blantant public untruths yet the man adams is still in his position and the media has let adams off the hook its time the spotlight was put on gerry adams and sinn fein.
Brilliant forensic analysis of the questions and lies Pete.
You do of course know that they are “Stupid questions” though don’t you.
Some of the bishops had to go.
Robinson should go and Adams should as well.
He did not do enough to ensure that Liam Adams did not work with children.
“Why did he stay publicly silent when children in his own west Belfast constituency were potentially at risk?”
That’s the clincher right there and that’s what being discussed by parents picking up their kids from school and people standing around after mass.
Would the Speaker permit a question to Martin McGuinness on when he was first made aware of the allegations about Liam Adams?
Robinson should go and Adams should as well.
He did not do enough to ensure that Liam Adams did not work with children.
Posted by Panic, these ones like it up em. on Jan 11, 2010 @ 01:25 PM
Yes they both have to go Adams told blantant public untruths he lied and it has a strong whiff off a cover up.Adams has to go and other in sinn fein like morgan have questions to answer.Lets have justice Gerry adams adams position was and is untenable this must be the spotlight and the pressure has to be ratched up on him and the sinners
Why did the RUC clear Liam Adams to work with children when Clonard youth centre asked for him to be vetted? And why, after denying that he’d ever been cleared, did the PSNI at least take several weeks (if in fact they’ve done it yet) to collect the clearance form with the RUC stamp which Clonard youth centre told them they had?
Adams has even had the cheek to describe as “offensive” parallels being drawn between his political future and that of Peter Robinson.
“A family trying to cope with the issue of child abuse and whatever is happening with another front, I find it offensive those comparisons are being made. They are ludicrous.”
I would have to agree with him though as Irisgate involved consenting adults in a relatively short period of time and Liamgate exposed children to potential risk for over 20 years.
Adams went on in defiant faux victimhood and stated:
“I have no intention whatsoever of resigning whatever the effect this has had on me and I’m sure you can appreciate this has been a devestating issue to deal with.”
It’s all about Gerry and the effect of Liamgate on Gerry, not Aine Tyrell nor the children of Donegal, Dundalk and West Belfast. That’s why Gerry stayed silent, sure what was the risk to a few kids in comparison to his ‘greatness.’
It is also interesting that the Orange Volunteers, a state countergang allegedy directed until recently by accused paedo Mark Harbinson, issued a ridiculous death threat to Gerry at the weekend and threats to Francie Molloy and Gerry Kelly during the week.
Needs to be asked — what is the difference between deliberately putting west Belfast children at risk from a known paedophile and deliberately sending children out to stone the army/ruc in the full knowledge they could be shot/seriously injured?
Surely both represent a reckless disregard for the safety of children and a self-serving cynicism within the republican movement?
I would speculate that the state had an arrangement with Liam, Gerry or both. There seem to no limits to Gerry’s capacity for self-preservation after all.
Danny Boy,
The answer is because no-one (including Garry Adams and anyone else who knew) went through the proper procedures and informed the authorities ( the RUC ) that a crime had been committed.
The “clearance” is a check against names on a list of convicted offenders, not a personality profile. If no-one spoke to the police, then the list would not include Liam Adams name. Anyone who had to work that system will tell you that workplaces often had to wait weeks because of backlogs.
For all the bluster, Sinn Fein policy, as expressed by Gerry Adams, left children at risk of the like of Liam Adams. It put the safety of children in second place to political considerations
“14.Why did the RUC clear Liam Adams to work with children when Clonard youth centre asked for him to be vetted?”
Because under the law as it stood at that time they could do nothing else. All allegations against him were withdrawn.
Aine and her mother did talk to the police. They have said that they then left the station in disgust because the police were more interested in recruiting them as informers than investigating the rape.
No speacial treatment anymore, please, for clergy, cops or politicans. The integrity of both Robinson and Adams is not retrievable.
@ Blair: Aha.
“17.Aine and her mother did talk to the police. They have said that they then left the station in disgust because the police were more interested in recruiting them as informers than investigating the rape.”
The police asked them some questions about the man they were accusing of incest, paedophilia and rape. So the mother concluded that she was being recrtuited as a tout. Therefore the accusations were withdrawn and Liam was free to carry on working with children.
Killian Forde
In essence, he argues that the party is driven not by an independent party structure, but by a series powerful individuals… – These people then end up with an effective veto on everything.
Is Gerry Adams not one of those powerful people, saying he did not know laim was a member of Sinn Fein is being economical with the truth. What Gerry needs to do is explain to the people of West Belfast why he allowed his brother to work with other children while knowing the facts about him, he cant say he didn’t know about it, the media should focus on who worked on the boards of those Youth Centres and you’ll find the truth.
Rhetorical question, in the dark past did the people of west Belfast not call on organisations other than the RUC when this sort of thing happened? Why didn’t they do something?
Gerry adams says he has no intention off resigning so hes told blantant public untruths and a cover up in a child abuse scandal and thats ok well it isnt ok adams this man Gerry Adams is staying in his position as leader of SF unbeleivable ADams has no moral authority its a total disgrace that this man gerry adams is still in his position utter disgrace.
They could equally have spoken with social services or the NSPCC, but in order for it to proceed, there would have had to be police involvement.
posted by Kathleen Collins
At the drew university event this past November in New Jersey where I went to hear Gerry Adams–he quoted Bobby Sands who said ‘revenge would be the laughter of our children…” With Gerry Adams as her uncle and how he has handled her sexual abuse …poor Aine wasn’t laughing.
What is astounding is the pure adocity adams has to come out and say for his part he didn’t know his brother was a memeber of sinn fein. Is this man dilusional or does he really think people are that stupid. I bet Mr. Morgan must find it comforting (I’m being sarcastic) that Gerry is in effect leaving him out in the cold.
“social services or the NSPCC”
I was suggested very different organisations who wouldn’t naturally liaise with the police. Their lack of intervention at the time suggests either they didn’t know or they were prevented from acting.
posted by Kathleen Collins
I just found this statement by Gerry Adams in the Bobby Sands trust that he wrote years ago.
“And the driving force against oppression, as Bobby concludes, is the moral superiority of the oppressed.
Gerry Adams, Belfast, Ireland.”
Well, we know that Aine has moral superiority over her uncle.
Adams behaviour on this extremely serious issue is both cynical and self-serving.
Hardly surprising perhaps, coming from an individual who has twisted the truth for decades to justify torture and murder, often of his own community. One who has traditionally been kow-towed to by his constituency, the world’s media and dewy-eyed Irish America. Small wonder he thinks that everyone will believe his every utterance bless.
A mixture of age, arrogance, spin and self-delusion have created a loose cannon who could easily hole the SF ship below the waterline every bit as effectively as Iris has torpedoed the dupers.
One of the few crumbs of comfort for unionism at present is the hope that Adams will stay on and inflict maximum damage.
I am reluctant to call for Gerry Adams to resign from public office and indeed public life until after the trial of his brother. This is not out of any respect I hold for him or his party but rather because I want to see the whole truth dragged kicking and screaming if necessary into the open. If Liam Adams pleads not guilty, as he claims he will, then the truth has a chance of emerging blushing and timid into the daylight. If he pleads guilty then it may be that further enquiries will be necessary.
If Martin McGuinness is worth anything he will not bring down the Assembly because of the DUP. He will use that public place to insist that an investigation is carrried out into the allegations of protection of child abusers in West Belfast. Child abuse is the one crime that cannot be covered up in the name of Irish Republicanism
Adams will stay on until he loses the confidence of McGuinness. By which stage he may have damaged Sinn Fein electorally, although not substantially. The real issue is not hoping to inflict damage on SF, it is about finding out the details of this cover-up. The report in the south reached some sickening conclusions, our Catholic community here in the north deserve the same level of investigation, both in terms of the Church and others who may have sought to ‘manage’ paedophiles (alleged in Liam Adam’s case) rather than seeing them face justice. The truth will out, and Adams would be doing a service to own up to any wrongdoings on his part, rather than suppressing truth to allow him to continue strutting the world stage as a ‘statesman’
Would Gerry Adams be willing to subject himself to a polygraph lie detector test with representatives of various groups allowed to ask him questions? A polygraph would clear up a lot of things.
Who`s agenda are the media actually playing to and why.
Are there questions to be asked of goverment officials on the issue ? afterall its hard to imagine that the police were aware of these aledgations and had not passed them on up the intelligence chain where it could transform into substantial leverage potential.
Why is it also that the party from middle ranks to leadership level are prepared to watch helplessly as the partys integrity falls to pieces before they will face up to an individual who has said on many occasions that the party is more important than any individuals within it.
If the party intends going all out at engaging in real democratic politics they will have to shrug off the leaderships unhindered ability of running it as they did the Army.
Union Mack
I dont care if S/F or any other party is damaged Electorally. I care about any protection given to child abusers from any quarter.
Martin McGuinness would do well to read the political tea leaves. If Gerry Adams is found to have had a deeper involvement in the protection of child abusers than has already been shown, he will be finished and the risk will be that McGuinness will become smeared in the shite for attempting to protect Gerry Adams!
As for the debacle over the Catholic Church, I hope no one is suggesting the Protestant Church was any better, there may indeed be less abuse attributed to them but that will only be because the Protestant Church is a broad tree with many branches. Not because it didnt have its share of child abusers which it tried to foist on unsuspecting parishoners. I hope that in due course full investigations are carried out into every parish of every church in the whole of the island of Ireland.
Would Gerry Adams be willing to subject himself to a polygraph lie detector test with representatives of various groups allowed to ask him questions? A polygraph would clear up a lot of things.
Posted by Paddy on Jan 11, 2010 @ 03:59 PM
H`e fall at the first question.
Would the real gerry adams please stand up ?
those that have and do defend gerry adams make me sick the man has told blantant public untruths the cover up is in full swing.the man if he had any thing about him which he hasnt should go and go now.what a complete low life gerry adams is.
pippakin,
i’m certainly not suggesting any Protestant church is blame-free, but as i’m not a Protestant I can’t say i’m party to anything that happens in their churches. i do remember one case of a church in Ballymoney, where the victim was subjected to horrible verbal abuse from that congregation – after her abused had been found guilty in court. so these kind of things probably have happened more widely. you’re right in suggesting that they all should be investigated if complaint is made, but it is clear that there has been a specific problem within the Catholic Church, partially due to rules on marriage (my opinion, i may be wrong). either way, any cover-up must be outed for the sake of future generations, as well as in the pursuit of justice for those unfortunate enough to have been victimised by these evil people in the past
I repeat if the worst thing that Gerry Adams has done is to try and protect his abused brothers and sisters, well his family are not the first and wont be the last to be guilty of this ‘crime’. The question is did he go further, was he involved in protecting other child abusers. Did he support his brother in gaining employment with children knowing the risks involved. Did he at anytime, regardless of any government, aid any other child abuser in his escape from the law.
Gerry Adams future depends on the answers to those questions. If he is not careful Martin McGuinness may well find that his future also depends on the answer to those questions.
I believe we can wait, there is no rush, the outcome will be the same, today, next week, next year.
posted by Kathleen Collins
Whether Liam ever gets to trial isn’t the issue. The fact Gerry Adams states he BELIEVED his niece that his brother had sexually abused and raped her IS the issue regarding gerry. Since he BELIEVED Liam was a child rapist–and went on a walk about with him (implying the seal of approval) then Gerry Adams by his own words and actions…promoted to the voting public a child rapist. This is the problem. Gerry should have left a long time ago….
well made point Kathy.
Kathy
Yes, but at that time he, as far as is known, was supporting his abused brothers and sisters from the trauma of exposure. He acknowledges he saw Liam on occasion he denies anything more than the occasional meeting. I say lets wait for the outcome of investigations. Of course that assumes there will be investigations.
If there are no investigations we will all draw our own conclusions. The damage will be as bad, if not worse, than it is now, and may well cover anyone who has spent time protecting him.
I say lets wait for the outcome of investigations. Of course that assumes there will be investigations.
Who’s going to be doing these investigations Pip, the PSNI ?.
Tacapall
I can see Im in a minority of one here! Its funny considering the years Ive spent heartily loathing Adams and everything he represents.
The PSNI have no guts, they are almost completely worthless except as target practice for one or two verbally challenged youths.
If Liam Adams does as he says and pleads not guilty at trial, that will lead to a whole lot of answers coming to the surface. If he does not, then it will be time for a full public investigation.
I can see no need to rush, one way or tother the truth will come out. Child abuse is far too serious to condemn a man quickly or lightly and I suspect that some of the accusations about Gerry Adams I have seen, have more to do with vengeance than the punishment of child abusers.
A pervert is a pervert and deserves no mercy and for that very reason we should be careful before we condemn.
Pippakin,
So it was okay for Uncle Gerry to allow a predatory paedophile to work with children, so that his family would be spared from any pain? Does going to his wedding and going on the campaign trail count as ‘the odd meeting’?
posted by Kathleen Collins
Hhi pippakin, Let’s see…gerry was protecting his brothers and sisters? Not during the sexual abuse of their father…but from the actions of the father being known to the public years after the old man died. It bothers me, pippakin, that Gerry went to his brothers second wedding. Gerry beieved his brother had raped his child from the first marriage…and stood smiling by his brothers side for the second. Any concerns at all for a new child who might be brought into the world due to this union? Gerry’s walk about and then attendence at the second wedding give gerry’s seal of approval to the brother. Gerry’s actions and judgement since he is a public figure…and deal with children in the eductation of the north’s children…in the health care of the north’s children and as president of sinn fein…shaping policy in the south as well…the man is not fit to do this. He should go and go quickly.
Kathy C and Blair.
No! OMG No!! But it is because it is so serious that I hesitate to condemn. His father was the dung hill cock of his own little dung heap. He intimidated neighbours and friends alike. My blog http://pippakin-meiow.blogspot.com goes into greater detail. Id value your opinion of that post it is item TEN – The Sins of the Fathers.
What is worse is that there are now rumours of the IRA protecting other child abusers in W Belfast. If it is true, then I want the whole nest cleared and destroyed for good and I want everyone to know that there is one thing more important than any country: it is the children of that country, they are the future. Not some bearded urban gorilla.
As gerry for some odd reason believes he has answered all the relevant questions should the party faithfull actually trust him to ask all the relevant questions in negoiations of any discription ?
There is overwhelming evidence that gerry adams has told blantant public untruths and is involved in a cover up yet this man is still in his postion as SF leader.In this child abuse scandal which is far far worse than peters case.Its sickening and damn right shameful that adams is still in his position trully shameful.
Seamus
The questions will not be of Gerry Adams choosing and the party faithful include some people with serious careers to protect. I simply cannot imagine that such people, capable of a great deal worse, will have any hesitation in dumping Mr Adams the moment they feel the heat threatening them.
There is overwhelming evidence that gerry adams has told blantant public untruths and is involved in a cover up yet this man is still in his postion as SF leader.In this child abuse scandal which is far far worse than peters case.Its sickening and damn right shameful that adams is still in his position trully shameful.
Posted by Paul on Jan 11, 2010 @ 06:13 PM
Paul i think it goes to show just how much dirt the leadership have on one and other when they appear to be so helpless at removing what can only be described as a cancer.
#
Seamus
The questions will not be of Gerry Adams choosing and the party faithful include some people with serious careers to protect. I simply cannot imagine that such people, capable of a great deal worse, will have any hesitation in dumping Mr Adams the moment they feel the heat threatening them.
Posted by pippakin on Jan 11, 2010 @ 06:17 PM
Agree with you Pip, theres plenty of people in the Party that would never accept covering up child abuse, what Adams is doing is purely for personal reasons, he will step down, the people of west belfast are not that gullible, one only has to read the anderstown news to see that its censored, publishing only positive texts, letters about the allegations.