On Adams, we are still being asked to believe not what we see but what we are told we should see…
Given the amount of stick Peter Robinson is getting from the MSM, I’d hate think what would have happened to him if it had been found he was shielding a brother he suspected of child abuse, and promoted him through the party ranks, and then persuaded a senior party front bencher to lie about it afterwards. If you read nothing else today, read Suzanne Breen’s excellent account of how Gerry Adams lied about his brother Liam’s role in the party in Dundalk. And consider just how you might feel about an MP who allowed his constituents send their kids to youth projects he’d kept in the dark about his own suspicions? If it was Robinson and not Adams, and the clubs were in Tullycarnet and the lower Newtownards Road and not Clonard and Beechmount, the likelihood is he would be fried for his sins. And not simply by the media, but by his party. Adams on the other hand…
Gerry Adams said he believed his brother was a paedophile from the moment Aine made her allegations in 1987. Yet 10 years later, he went canvassing with Liam through the streets of Dundalk in the southern general election. Photos show them laughing and smiling.This was at a time when Sinn Fein had previously led us to believe Liam had been expelled from the party and was estranged from Gerry. Would Peter Robinson, Jim Allister or Mark Durkan get away with taking someone they believed to be a paedophile on a canvass? I think not.
It has to be safe to assume that if Adams (and his party) were lying over his brother’s role in Louth, then they are also lying over his role in various youth projects in West Belfast. Yet today’s piece by Breen is the first serious piece of journalism from the BelTel on the subject since before Christmas. Sometimes you have to take the view that what’s important is not just the top down piece process (which always favours in the interest of the various elites), but the interests of the ordinary citizen who still buy newspapers.
There is feverish speculation about a future Panorama programme and what it might or might not reveal about Robinson. If it is a genuinely new and serious revelation, he may have to walk. But if as is perfectly possible, it turns out a damp squib then people like Breen are entitled to ask just why “we are still being asked to believe not what we see but what we are told we should see“.
Mick, seems like a Road to Damascus conversion for you. I’ll have you believing he’s the Antichrist yet.
The media would be best served to let the issue of Adam’s brother lie until the legal process has run its course or perhaps find itself sucessfully being used by his solicitors to prevent his extradition or his trial proceeeding and we now have the media speculating on the personal matters afflicting the leadership of the two main parties both of which have the potential to destabilsie the current politcal situation further at the very time these parties should be setting about resolving the difficulties between them which seem to be more about appearance than substance.
“There is feverish speculation about a future Panorama programme and what it might or might not reveal about Robinson. If it is a genuinely new revelation and anything approaching the territory that Adams currently finds himself in, he will have to walk.”
Well thank you, Mick, you have now ensured a dramatic increase in the temperature caused by “feverish speculation” (don’t you mean “fevered”?) on whatever skeletons might be about to rattle their way free from the First Minister’s cupboard.
You tantalise us with the suggestion that forthcoming revelations might be akin to those ‘family troubles’ now plaguing Gerry Adams but surely there must be some even more tantalising leaked titbits abroad which you are not sharing with us.
As a former Paymaster General, the late George Wigg might have put it, “I am all ears”.
Probably one of the most objective posts I’ve ever read on Slugger, and, mind you, I’ve been hanging around for years!
Since when have we started to ask ourselves why it is that things are not being reported properly in N.Ireland?
We should be use to it by now; we have had almost forty years of it.
Good old Panorama …not that they have ever put stories on N.Ireland to bed, in the interests of the “peace process” …
“On Adams, we are still being asked to believe not what we see but what we are told we should see…”
Which is exactly what you are doing when you follow up with such hyperbolic assertions as:
“…promoted him ruthlessly through the party ranks, and then persuaded a senior party front bencher to lie about it afterwards”
This is exactly the problem on this issue – neither you or Breen have any firm facts and have only the word of disgruntled ex-members and dissidents (Hanratty) to support your assumptions. Breen might be able to get away with it in the Tribune with it’s limited circulation and limited northern interest and you on your ‘big fish in small pond’ blog, but higher standards are presumably expected from the so called MSM.
When Breen can come up with a story that doesn’t rely on unnamed sources or the word of dissident republicans, I expect then people may sit up and take notice. Until then she is merely picking over someone else’s rather unsightly sore.
So Ulick: What about the photos?
1. argue the facts: cannot.
2. argue the circumstnces: trying.
3. call names: dissidents, securocrats. GUBU.
Would you like Sinn Feiners to be canvassing your area? Would children be safe?
Paddy Power should be taking bets on Adams going. It is time these people were hekld up to ridicule. As regards the Power sharing falling, is covering up pederasty the cost of keeoing it together?
Would you like Sinn Feiners to be canvassing your area?
Paddy Power should be taking bets on Adams going. It is time these people were hekld up to ridicule. As regards the Power sharing falling, is covering up pederasty the cost of keeoing it together?
Posted by Paddy on Jan 05, 2010 @ 01:28 PM
Excellent post paddy its time gerry adams resigned and resigned NOW.
So Ulick: What about the photos?
I seem to remember photos of Adams posted here recently with him posing with three headers bedecked in red, white and blue. What did that prove? Absolutely nothing other than lots of of people will try to get their photo taken with him.
So have the DUP been silent on Adams shameful behaviour because they are scared whats coming their way?
Any party leader would of gone by now down south or anywhere else but not adams thats the sinners for you folks.Gerry adams has no moral authority his reputation he never had any anyway as far as i am concerned this is a man who said he was never a member of the IRA yes and my names father xmas and now his blantant public untruths hes told and the strong whiff of a cover up.Adams reputation is in TATTERS
I seem to remember photos of Adams posted here recently with him posing with three headers bedecked in red, white and blue. What did that prove? Absolutely nothing other than lots of of people will try to get their photo taken with him.
Posted by Ulick on Jan 05, 2010 @ 01:35 PM
Oh GAWD another sinner/troll/spinner trying in vain to deflect attention away from the mounting pressure on the sinners/gerry adams lot by spinning
Where do you lot get off hey.???
When Breen can come up with a story that doesn’t rely on unnamed sources or the word of dissident republicans, I expect then people may sit up and take notice. Until then she is merely picking over someone else’s rather unsightly sore.
Are you saying Gerard Hodgins is a dissident ? The letter and article The Irish News carried from him was very revealing, A former hunger striker and lifelong republican of his calibre would not post something like that in the open media without having established “Facts” first.
Are you saying Gerard Hodgins is a dissident?
I wouldn’t class him as a dissident, though as he is a prominent member of éirígí, others may do. Either way that organisation is very opposed to the SF approach and would be only to do a bit of damage.
Being opposed to the Sinn Fein “approach” and exposing the present leaderships lack of moral standards can hardly be described as being unfounded and taking a cheap shot at them, Gerry said he believed Aine the first time she revealed the accusations to him. The photo’s from Dundalk are not fake, its not an untruth that he worked as a youth worker in Clonard, Beechmount and in Dundalk and that Gerry was aware of it, he allowed our children to be exposed to a child rapist. Are people lying about that ?
‘he allowed our children to be exposed to a child rapist’
Mick, in the rush to demonise Adams, have you dispensed with mundane issues such as justice and libel laws?
When was Liam Adams convicted of child rape?
‘he allowed our children to be exposed to a child rapist’
Mick, in the rush to demonise Adams, have you dispensed with mundane issues such as justice and libel laws?
When was Liam Adams convicted of child rape?
You’re right chewnic ! Mick could you cange that line to read alledged child rapist, Who went on the run down south because the british controlled judical system wont give him a fair trial.
chew,
Did I say that? There was a bit of looseness in the last paragraph which I have tightened up…
What this post proves is that the desperation level amongst the Adamsite camp is reaching the critical point. Those with any brains are exercising their lack of integrity offline as they don’t want to be hung out to dry like Arthur Morgan. What we have instead are trolling feejits who invariably miss every golden opportunity to say absolutely nothing. I suppose it’s not their fault really as they are only taking their line from Dear Leader.
Try as they might, this story isn’t going to go away.. it’s only going to get worse and we can be thankful that there are still some journalists with the integrity to pursue the liars and enablers.
Sure this is about Gerry’s behaviour in regards to Liam and as far as Gerry is concerned he is a paedophile. Gerry has never treated anyone fairly where Liam is concerned; not Aine Tyrell not Liam’s colleagues in PSF and particularly not the children GA’s silence enabled Liam to come into contact with up until 2006.
No point in trying to portray Liam Adams as some type of victim of British injustice. He is far fro the victim in this case.
I wonder does the “British controlled legal system won’t give him a fair trial” line mean that SF will be opposing Liam’s extradition?
Perhaps Gerry’s widely reported statements about how he believes his brother to be guilty are an effort to give him a defence too (“he can’t get a fair trial because of the publicity”).
“he can’t get a fair trial because of the publicity”
That might be a distinct possibility, Aldamir, which would come close to a miscarriage of justice.
These allegations need to be tested in court and the chips fall where they will.
On a related issue, it may nigh well to get justice after so many years have passed.
Following the recent report on child abuse in a small part of the Republic, the Justice Minister said that the accused would be vigorously pursued and brought to justice no matter what their age. I have yet to hear of any charges being laid.
I wonder does the “British controlled legal system won’t give him a fair trial” line mean that SF will be opposing Liam’s extradition?
I was being sarcastic with that line, as chewnic rightly pointed out, that Laim Adams has not been convicted of child abuse YET, but who wont return to the 6 counties to face the charges nor face his daughter in the jurisdiction where it alledgely happened,
Ulick hit the nail on the head earlier when he criticised the following:
”…promoted him ruthlessly through the party ranks, and then persuaded a senior party front bencher to lie about it afterwards”
Feverish speculation indeed. I should point out that I am neither a supporter of Adams nor a SF voter, a critic in fact.
However the words promoted him ruthlessly (how does one promote someone ruthlessly anyway?) don’t take any account of the fact that here in NI, politics can be a family business. Did Peter the Punt promote Iris ‘ruthlessly’? What about the Paisley’s, were they promoted ‘ruthlessly’? I could go on, the point is the fact that Ian Og was Big Ian’s wee’un was enough to ensure political success (for surely no-one could argue that Paisley Og got where he is on merit?!).
The point is for Gerry, like Peter the Punt and Big Ian before him, if he has a sibling/parent/child looking to break into politics, they won’t need ‘ruthless’ promotion. The electorate here would vote for a vegetable if it had the right surname.
As for whether or not Gerry convinced anyone to lie, I’m assuming you don’t have proof of this, for if you had it would be produced. Nope, this is ‘feverish speculation’, perhaps he lied, or was mistaken, and if he lied perhaps his motive was for self, or for party, as opposed to Gerry pulling strings.
Hell you could be correct in your assertions, however they are and will remain speculative. Gerry has serious questions to answer, your post asks them. He needs to explain about a) exposing his electorate’s children to a possible pervert b) campaigning beside someone he claims he knew was a rapist etc. I just feel by couching your points in along with your speculation (stating for example that Gerry convinced a party colleague to lie – information which I’m certain you cannot definitively know) you detract from your own argument. The SF internet police will be able to rip into your speculative points, and ignore your substance.
I’ve just been on to phone to someone in N.I. who says there is a rumour that Robinson is shortly to retire.
Anyone hear anything?
I’m getting concerns expressed to me about the legality of where this discussion is heading. Not just individuals on thread but others off it.
There are some profoundly untrivial matters pertaining to this issue.
One, Liam Adams is innocent unless proven otherwise. And two, there will be significant problems in him getting a fair trial in all of this.
Much of that problem relates to the time lapse, and the splurging of this story out through the news and in blogs like Slugger.
It is further complicated by the fact that we have what Gerry Adams has said about his belief in his niece story. For me, the problem in staying decent (never mind legal) on this story revolves around the public expression of that belief.
Just tread carefully…
[i]As part of their cover-up, Sinn Fein are diverting attention from the hard questions by claiming “these stories are emanating from dissidents”. Republican dissidents last year brought murder and mayhem to Northern Ireland and undoubtedly will try to do the same this year. They are responsible for many things. What they can’t be blamed for is the alleged rape of Aine Tyrell, for recruiting Liam Adams to Sinn Fein, for promoting him through the ranks, for securing him key jobs working with young people, and for engaging in an extensive cover-up about his political activities.[/i]
Suzanne Breen hits the nail on the head. The Shinners are trying to make fools out of their own voters yet again by leading them to believe that Aine Tyrell and UTV are part of a conspiracy by
securocratsdissidents to make Gerry Adams look like a moral degenerate.They hope that they can muddy the waters by putting the focus on arousing suspicion about the agenda of the “dissident journalists” who are investigating the story rather than on the detail of the story itself and Gerry Adams’ discredited version of it. There other attempt to muddy the waters for that purpose was of course the curious revelation that paedophilia runs in the Adams family, and that poor Gerry may even have been a victim himself – but, alas, has “no recollection” of it.
Mick,
I would hate to see “evidence” from Slugger being raised in a voir dire hearing.
The problem isn’t the bloggers but the wild comments from some of the commenters.
Perhaps treading carefully should include a voluntary embargo on any future blogs or not allowing comments on any.
And perhaps, Joe, you should acquaint yourself with a basic grasp of the relevant contempt law and its precedents before your proffer your ignorance of it as a basis for censorship of analysis for the role of an elected representative in this affair.
Perhaps treading carefully should include a voluntary embargo on any future blogs or not allowing comments on any.
Posted by joeCanuck on Jan 05, 2010 @ 05:52 PM
Thats what you sinners/trolls/spinners want.Censership not a chance
Some of the critics of the feeding frenzy this story has evoked are absolutely right. It would be unwise to venture into the facts of the actual allegations of child abuse.
However the investigation some journalists are undertaking and the comments made by many bloggers etc are neccessary. Gerry Adams has brought this on himself by his actions in the last few weeks. He backed up publically the allegations himself and told lies about his involvement with Liam Adams career. That has to be probed! He’s a public representative for god’s sake, and Mick is right to say that no other party leader would get away with.
It’s unfortunate that this probing turns into hypotheses and conjecture. These should be avoided!
One interesting hypothesis that I was thinking of, which should not be libelous, is that if Liam were to defend himself, the trial would become one of witness credibility. Aine Tyrell would no doubt be questioned on her delay in pursuing these matters and motivations for doing it now. Gerry Afams will Im sure be a big part of that story. It is conceivable that Gerry Adams would be summoned by the pps to give evidence. This evidence would be probed by the defence and the question is bound to be asked of Gerry, ‘why did you canvass with him and allow him to be a youth worker’. If they didn’t challenge his evidence, liam would be going to prison to save his brothers reputation. Perhaps he will do that.
Finally if LA does wish to tried in the south- I can’t see how but anyway, just for a laugh- imagine Gerry went on the run in the north. Now would be funny
Paul,
I don’t know how many times I am going to have to point out to you that I am not a supporter of either SF or Gerry Adams,
Please stop calling me names.
#
Paul,
I don’t know how many times I am going to have to point out to you that I am not a supporter of either SF or Gerry Adams,
Please stop calling me names.
Posted by joeCanuck on Jan 05, 2010 @ 06:16 PM
joe I apoligise if you are not a sf or gerry adams supporter.I am sorry
You do exhibit unhealthy levels of Gerrylove though Joe.
I’ve just been on to phone to someone in N.I. who says there is a rumour that Robinson is shortly to retire.
Anyone hear anything?
What the fk is going on in this place, first the revelations about The Adams and not one Unionist party member even commenting on it, then Iris robinson resigning and now its rumoured Peter as well. Whats that all about, nothing will surprise me here ever again.
Paul,
Thank you.
Mr Crowley,
I have no love for Adams. I have always been a believer in Justice and due process.
You do exhibit unhealthy levels of Gerrylove though Joe.
Posted by Mr Crowley on Jan 05, 2010 @ 06:35 PM
I thought he did as well Mr Crowley seems I got it wrong.
In addition, I am not concerned about Gerry Adams and the discrepancy between his utterings and the photographs;he’ll have to explain that difficult one himself. I’m concerned that the allegations against Liam Adams will not be tested in court because of adverse publicity, and hence any due justice will be prevented.
The issues are intrinsically linked Joe; after all it was Gerry’s initial declaration of belief in the guilt of Liam that may have most jeopardised the possibility of a fair trial. As such Gerry’s utterances could be viewed from the perspective of Liam preservation followed by self preservation as the inconsistencies and deceit in his accounts have been exposed. Are you not at all troubled that, apart from a handful of handful of journalists, Gerry Adams’ enablement of a brother he believes to have been a paedo and his lies subsequent to exposure is being ignored by both his party and the establishment media. In any normal, decent political party he would have been gone by now. Hell, in even a normal corrupt and despicable political party like FF or the Tories he would still have been gone. Don’t you think that this is worthy of concern?
Don’t you think that this is worthy of concern?
Yes I do Mr.Crowley. But if the allegations about the brother are true then the priority should be her getting justice. As Mick says, irregardless of G.Adams public statements, we need to tread carefully so that we don’t contribute to a miscarriage of justice.
Joe
Im my view given the blantant untruths Adams has said publicly.If he adams had the best interests of his niece at heart in all of this he would resign his position which clearly is untenable to be there to give all his support to his neice. when this appalling scandal goes to court.Adams simply hasnt got any moral authority to stay in his position would you agree.???
Paul, as you seem to be a fairly recent addition to the posters on this site, could I ask that you do not discriminate against those of us who are not completely fluent in Ulster Scots. I just feel that your posts would be very interesting but if we can’t read nor comprehend them ………. ?
Troll much?
Gerry Adams may very well have to resign/be forced out of his current position, but as I’ve followed this story on Slugger, Adams’ downfall is the ONLY thing that matters to some. Justice being served to the gal who was (allegedly) raped is an afterthought. I find that despicable.
Only when goats trip trap over MY bridge!
Joe, for somebody who is ‘not a fan of Gerry Adams’ you seem highly motivated to deflect attention from him.
Regardless, Adams has lied and been caught out; of that there is absolutely no question. This lack of integrity is compounded by the not-so-small matter of the potential risk to public safety that he claims was known to him. How can such a person be considered worthy of high office and public service? He has to go and the fact that his party is silent on the matter, apart from sycophantic or dishonest support, speaks volumes about collective shinner integrity. There is a huge difference between public representatives and professional liars; this issue has clearly and absolutely determined where the shinners stand in the equation.
You miss the point that Gerry Adams has been the main obstacle to Aine Tyrell receiving justice since she first approached him over 20 years ago. Indeed his statements concerning his belief in Liam’s guilt may be sufficiently jeopardicial to a free trial to ensure that she never gets justice.
Mr Crowley, I think it would be safe to assume that you are not a member of Mr Adams’ party. If this is, indeed, the case then nobody gives a flying f**k whether you think he should or shouldn’t go. Confine your petty remarks vis-a-vis the party offices to the leader of whatever party would have you as a member.
Socaire,
I used to be a member of PSF but I resigned; as would anyone with any integrity, particularly in light of the most recent revelations.
Your petulance and trolling merely highlight the state of desperation within your party; which has been exposed for the spineless, dishonest personality cult that it is.
I think we must reflect in this thead on the fact that Gerry Adams is a key player in the peace process and that if he tumbles so might the peace process.
In order to get rid of Adams, which most of us want, and it will not happen by this story alone, we need to allow the dirt to accumulate and he’ll go as soon as he becomes a liability to the peace process. When the media get the nod to go for him from others in Sinn Fein and in other parties including the governments, Gerry Adams will resign as leader of Sinn Fein. Before then, it is just a matter of keeping the pressure on him.
By the way, he has already fallen in my eyes. The leadership of Sinn Fein is an irrelevancy to me personally.