“So Congal you are making a direct link between the disarming of a secret…”

Er, no. That’d be you. So, really the rest of yer post refers to yerself. Nice one ;0)

you are right.Stalemate.But that is Peter’s way;

http://www.minelres.lv/coe/crml.htm

Links to draft clauses, please.

Indeed, and as the British government would quickly point out to the Irish government: responsibility for government requires joint joint-responsibility for the cost of government. I think you can whistle for that 7 billion euro because you sure as hell aren’t going to get it from Irish taxpayers. Joint rule is off the agenda.

ps-point of order on your spell checker Mick fealty;why do i need a capital letter for England,Ireland,Scotland,France,and many other countries except wales?
Even Faroe islands?

It’s very macho of Marty to tell the DUP that they can’t impose any conditions but wee Marty might be terribly disappointed to discover that the DUP can impose any conditions that they like. It isn’t within Marty’s gift to determine the policies of another political party. Marty still doesn’t quite grasp this democracy thing.

“” the leader of Ireland agrees that no preconditions can be laid down for the transfer? “

Ah Jim.You mean the leader of a bit of Ireland. That’s part of the problem ”

Indeed,Igor,it’s not just part of the problem,but the actual problem.Glad you recognize it without drawing attention to the Anglo-Irish agreement.Progress………

I assume that the DUPs planned destruction of power sharing is why they have taken it this far. And why the actually did a deal with SF (and a deal at SFs insistence to stiff the SDLP by denying them Justice in favour of the Alliance wannabes)

and your problem with that is? As I keep pointing out, when it came to supporting PSNI SF played this line for the best part of 4 years. The DUPs are even using language copied from the Shinners at that time.

I think its called ‘putting manners on them’.

Ah Jim.You mean the leader of a bit of Ireland. That’s part of the problem

If Sinn Fein got a commitment, with dates and all, from the DUP let’s see it on paper. Otherwise this is all petulant hot air and, yet again from SF, a piss poor negotiating position.

So bringing down Stormont will be a good thing for the Shinners? Will their past-and-future-friends forgive the ‘traitors to Ireland jibe’ and kiss and make up?

Or is everything ok as long as Peter’s gang gets the blame?

Perhaps the myth of joint authority is the wet -dream of choice? Really pissing-off the Garrison gang’s mirror image in the armed loyalist camp looks a pretty sh*tty option to me.

Then again perhaps that is the shinners’ big idea. Afterall as ‘former’ members are now providing murder consultation to the new kids on the block in order to ratchet up the tension a return to ‘war’ is perhaps SF’s way out of this messy, difficult politics bollix.

A bullet in the face is sooo much easier than having to actually discuss things with ‘themuns’.

Who respects those that welch on a deal. It is obvious that the DUP have no principaled objections to the devolving of P/J.

The small politics that they are playing has everthing to do with their insecurities with regard to the TUV.

So in essence they lack the courage to carry through their part of a deal.

Welchers that lacked courage may be Robinsons and the DUPs epitaph.

Bring down the current devolved assembly? Do it, says Peter. We’ve all seen who comes out strongest in devolution negotiations.

This is just another example of the DUP standing on Sinn Feins toes in the strangled, frustrated dance of consociationalist government…..the Stormont no step.”
Posted by halfer on Nov 29, 2009 @ 01:30 PM

You miss the point though. All the big negotiations have already been done ala GFA and St Andrews. If the Executive falls again, it will be for the last time. The fallout from this will not benefit Unionism e.g. the emergence of Direct Rule with a larger role for Dublin. Unionism, through its own intransigence, will be the author of its own demise. Do you really think at this stage that the Brits, the Irish Govt and the US Administration will countenance another round of negotiations? And even if it were a possibility, who would Unionism negotiate with? Itself? Peter has two choices, namely operate power sharing, or conspire to bring down the Assembly hence ushering in an era of de-facto Joint rule, which will ironically see the introduction of an ILA and contribute to the emergence of greater north-southery, and Unionism will be powerless to stop it.

So in an election, SF have secured the implicit support of the Irish Prime Minister for their position. Whose support has the DUP secured? And who has more to fear from an election? I’d hazard a guess its the DUP. Still, in the land of the blind the one eyed man is king.

All of this is completely irrelevant. What matters is, who benefits from an early election ? Who benefits from a collapse of the assembly ? Who benefits from the rise of Jim Allister ?

Sinn Fein pulling out means an early election to the assembly. An early election means TUV candidates running, and potentially grabbing anywhere between three and six seats. If the TUV do well, which is a distinct possibility, that gives them the traction they need to win at least one Westminster seat in the general election, most likely North Antrim. By the time this happens, the political process that we’ve all put so much work into is effectively dead, and Sinn Fein are out on a limb.

SF know this, which is why they have not pulled out yet. Peter Robinson is gambling that they’ll continue to hang on, which is why he’s doing the grandstanding and will likely continue to do it.

It’s anybody’s guess what the world might look like if the assembly collapsed. Any elections would likely reaffirm Sinn Fein’s position, and show damage to the DUP. But that won’t count for anything if the assembly remains out of action. I don’t think joint authority is likely at all, I cannot see the Conservatives taking a hard line over sovereignty WRT Europe and simultaneously ceding authority to the Irish government, especially not when doing so would likely create more problems than it would solve.

I see a lot of talk here about who gets the blame and who doesn’t, etc. None of this matters. Unionism has never cared about taking the blame, and it doesn’t now. If they think collapsing the assembly is in their interests, they will do it, and to hell with the consequences. I don’t think that is how they really feel in the DUP at the moment – Robinson’s defence of devolution, and his defence of the need to accomodate nationalism – has been spirited. However, it would be a serious mistake to believe that they will make tough decisions out of fear of taking the blame for things going wrong.

Children, parents and teachers are unsure if any schools will be able to open after the 31st December 2009.

People who are facing poverty are being ignored.

Potential investors to Northern Ireland stand by to see if the Assembly will collapse.

But as long as Marty and Peter continue to piss higher and higher up the wall then that’s ok.

Time for Change.