The Falls alight on Friday night…
From your roving reporter David Vance… Though it comes with little detail…
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…if University education were universally available and availed of, the country would collapse in one generation
The words of Brian O’Nolan, variously Brian Ó Nualláin, Myles na gCopaleen, Myles na Gopaleen and, of course, Flann O’Brien. That O’Nolan was referencing his own dissolute student days at UCD only mildly distracts from the prophetic undertone of his words: I paid no attention whatsoever to books or study and regarded lectures as a [...] read our review »
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Christopher Hitchens, 1949 – 2011
Writer Christopher Hitchens has died aged 62. He was as contrary as he was brilliant. Here is a brief In Memoriam from Vanity Fair (his outlet of choice since 1992) and, here, a longer tribute from his friend Christopher Buckley Stanley in The New Yorker. Better, perhaps, though to post one of Hitchens’ own writings in [...] read our review »
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Talking to a brick wall: how to make politicians listen?
It took me a long time to warm to advertising agencies. The first time I worked with one I was working in sales management on Fairy Washing Up Liquid. I was due to attend a meeting at which I was to be told what consumers really thought of the brand. I remember my reluctance to [...] read our review »
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thought provoking stuff.
I wonder if a few wheelie bins alight in the Shankill Road would have received the same attention from our bitter little friend. He had initially described the situation as riotous before amending his hyperbolic rant when informed otherwise.
Wow, has Gerry Adams been informed of this latest momentous development?
Was that supposed to be a video?
All I can see is a pic with someone running across the road with 2 firemen appearing to be having a piss at the right hand side.
Yeah, the only thing missing from the photo was any reason at all for its existence.
Why in the world would anyone be surprised by unrest in a police state?
Maybe theres a bigger picture.
“maybe there’s a bigger picture”
Yeah but I bet the quality is no better than this one!
I’m not sure what the picture shows, other than a fire engine.
Anti-social behaviour is a very serious problem in the neighbourhoods all over the country. The stuff that made the news in the city centre earlier in the week happens on a regular basis around the inner city and the suburbs, and tends to go unreported. The police do not appear to have a strategy to deal with it. Frankly, a lot of the time, it looks like they don’t really want to get their hands dirty.
I don’t see a problem with prosecuting parents who fail to properly look after their kids, allowing them to roam the streets at night. We prosecute them if they do not make sure their kids go to school, so the concept of parental liability is already there.
So I’m not the only one that has no idea what this is about.
I think Comrade Stalin is right.
This follows on from that which happened the other evening in the city centre. Is this recreational vandalism? And what about the parents – some of the kids seemed very young the other evening – early teens.
It’s an attempt I think to talk about the issue of anti social behaviour from the looks of it. AS C. S. writes it is indeed a problem in our cities. Yesterday I over heard a few kids boasting about ‘jail time’, like something from the wire one of them shouted at the crowd that none of them had done any time, and the response he got back was ‘well I’m only fifteen’, that earned the retort, ‘by the time I was fifteen I’d been in jail’.
Peace has brought us nothing if our young are going to end up like something from the corners of Baltimore. We’re going down that road, and it is an issue that is under reported, and ignored by the msm. Our young are a ticking time bomb.
The post on ATW is an absolute non-story, not in the sense that there isn’t a story there, but that there is no actual “reporting” of anything. It’s probably the least descriptive post I’ve ever read.
I’d have to agree with Comrade Stalin’s point regarding the police though; I do think there is no coherent strategy for dealing with young criminals and there is also a worrying attitude that because they are young their crimes are less serious. As any victim will tell you, it doesn’t really matter what age the perpetrator was.
BREAKING NEWS FROM DAVID VANCE “Republicans are bad.”
not in the sense that there isn’t a story there, but that there is no actual “reporting” of anything.
I agree, but blogs are not the msm. I did see a lot of man playing on this thread earlier. Good luck to mick if he is trying to get peace on line, when we don’t have it elsewhere, we only have to think back this past week to the mc dowell incident. We are a society that still thinks in terms of them and us, and I looked at the post on Vance’s blog and it doesn’t say Republicans are bad at all. See below,
Sad to report that there appears to be more street theatre of the pyrrhic kind in Belfast this evening, on the Falls Road. This follows on from that which happened the other evening in the city centre. Is this recreational vandalism? And what about the parents – some of the kids seemed very young the other evening – early teens.
Everybody is entitled to a view on anti social behaviour because it affects us all.
Well, it’s good to see that the citizen journalism and self-publication empowerment properties of the Internet are being exploited to the max. Maybe some other blog has breaking news and even a first picture of a nonchalant cat up a tree?
“Maybe some other blog has breaking news and even a first picture of a nonchalant cat up a tree?”
In Boston
lol
David Vance is the last person (well maybe Turgon as well) who would post anything other than stereotypical nonsense about west belfast.
West Belfast was, is and is probably always destined to be one of the most socially deprived areas in these islands. So just like the inner cities of Dublin, Limerick or London there will be anti-social behaviour. This is a social disease not a nationalist area disease and to say otherwise is nothing short of sectarianism.
David should venture into the socially deprived areas of Ballymena to see what drugs and anti-social behaviour are doing to that DUP/TUV heartland. Then compare the two – that would be honest journalism and worth reading.
Linking to that blog does absolutely nothing to encourage the type of optimism about blogging’s contribution to democratic expression, any more than the author’s posting here during the Gaza bombardment (“Go, Israel!”) contributed to sensible debate on a serious issue.
The man is to be pitied or sectioned, not encouraged.
I’m about the last person to defend David Vance, but I didn’t interpret his comment on his blog as “look at those stupid fenians wrecking the place”. The Falls/Divis is one of the black spots for this kind of behaviour at the moment, and it’s republicans/SF types who you’ll hear shouting the loudest about it. Quite rightly too, as it’s destroying their community in the same way that it destroys any community where it sets in.
I am happy to report that there were no recorded incidents of widespread rioting, looting, arson or vandalism in Hackney last night.
Police were at a loss as to the causes of this serious outbreak of peace although one non-attributable source ventured that it was probably due to “a shortage of Fenians” in the area.
Alright Kids – permit me to deal with the inflammatory issue. (Geddit?)
First of, I am no roving reporter.
As I explained on ATW, I had witnessed first hand loutishness in Belfast post Bob the Builder and expressed my concern at how some very young people were engaging in this kind of anti-social behavior. Issues like parental responsibility interest me in that regards.
Now, last evening, I was provided by someone who lives in West Belfast of images of some further anti-social behaviour. It seems that the Fire Brigaded had to put out the results of this. So, from Bob the Builder to Fireman Sam in but a few short days.
I once again wondered why we have such loutishness on our streets.
Cue the onslaught of the Sluggerettes transferring their own rancid bigorty onto me! I could not care less if it was east, west, north or south Belfast where such loutishness happens. This is not a sectarian issue, you proles. It is about trying to understand why a section of young people think it is a good night out if they can damage property and makes other people miserable. It is about figuring out how parents preside over this. It is about the rule of law, wherever.
I appreciate that some of you are so blinded by your own bigotry that this is beyond your comprehension so I will waste no more time on them.
I thank Only Asking and Comrade Stalin for trying to understand what I was writing about. I also fully agree with west Belfast about what goes on in UVF controlled sections of Ballymena, and should someone send me images of this I will happily comment.
You should be mature enough to accept that issues like young people engaging in anti-social behavior is a problem for all of us.
And just so ALL are clear, I have never claimed to be a citizen journalist!
Now, I’m off for some recreational blogging…
[i]Cue the onslaught of the Sluggerettes transferring their own rancid bigorty onto me![/i]
We learned from the best, David.
West Belfast was, is and is probably always destined to be one of the most socially deprived areas in these islands…………
how so? west belfast is within a few miles of the majority of jobs in the whole of Northern Ireland. The people there have better job prospects that those in the rest of the province. better bus and rail services, closer and better hospital care.
I don’t think anyone can take seriously moralising about the rule of law from someone who is on the record as wishing to exclude from government all Irish Nationalists and Republicans because he believes they are not loyal to the state of N Ireland – and who said and acted as he did regarding the deaths of thousands of men, women and children in Gaza earlier this year.
Go
IsraelVance!Andrew, they may be within walking distance of a few hundred thousand jobs but it is surely a violation of their human rights that they have to walk or even get the bus to a place of work. Can’t Nanny do any better than that?
I have reread the post in question, a bit more context would have helped but, as much as it grieves me, I’ve got to agree with Vance on this one. Can someone point out to me the sectarianism I’ve apparently missed on this particuliar post?
Now now David no opinions from you here, and also a side slap for Turgon who’s not even on the horizon for this thread.
Proddies lie down!
The Slugger ‘unionist outreach’ seems to be going well.
“Proles,” Vance?
I’m a prole, and proud of it.
Gwerinos y byd, cyfunwch!
Recreational vandalism is hardly anything new, the only difference in Belfast is an inherently higher skill level, developed after years of recreational vandalism being harnessed by paramilitaries on both sides.
Clanky,
Witticism aside, the recreational vandalism we are seeing now is at the hoof of kids who weren’t born when the first ceasefire occurred. And I don’t think it’s specific to Belfast or NI.
The action was in Portadump last night…………
[b]Loyalist mob’ blamed for trouble[/b]
[i]Disturbances in Portadown in which police were attacked have been blamed on a “carefully-orchestrated loyalist mob” by a local SDLP assembly member.
A large crowd gathered on Sunday shortly after midnight in the Mandeville Street and West Street area.
Ten officers sustained minor injuries and a number of vehicles were damaged.
Dolores Kelly said the plans were known weeks ago and the gathering should have been stopped. A police spokeswoman said appropriate resources were in place.
The trouble, said by police to be sporadic, lasted for about three hours.
A 19-year-old man is to appear in court next month charged with assault on police and public order offences, while a 31-year-old was released pending further inquiries.
‘Provocative’
Mrs Kelly said: “Two weeks ago we warned that texts were circulating calling on all loyalists to gather for a show of force in the centre of the town at pub closing time.
“This was incredibly stupid, incredibly provocative and the purpose was made absolutely clear in the texts which we forwarded to the media – to intimidate nationalists and lay claim to ownership of the town centre.
“As far as I have heard the police were prepared and were able to move the mob back and generally control the situation. But the fundamental point is that a very substantial group of people are determined to deny access to the town centre for all.”
She said she had called for an investigation into the police’s handling of the incident.
The Irish News reported on 19 November that text messages were circulating urging loyalists to gather on a given weekend night “to show republicans that we will not tolerate their behaviour or presence in our area”.
Garvaghy Road Residents Coalition spokesman Breandan Mac Cionnaith said: “By permitting this intimidatory mob to assemble last night in the first place, the PSNI ensured a clear message was sent out signalling that Portadown town centre is not a welcome or safe place at night for Catholics or nationalists.
“That is totally and completely objectionable and abhorrent and cannot be justified under any circumstances.”
A police spokeswoman said they were aware of the text messages being circulated and appropriate resources had been put in place to deal with the illegal gathering.
She said police were “working with the public and community representatives to resolve the situation”[/i]
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/8385187.stm
JO
“Now, fuck off to yor own website”
Wow, strong words, Mr Fealty. And why do you have to cloak them in a pseudonym? Or has this “JO” person staged a coup on Slugger?
Frankly I preferred it when good ol’ Mr Fealty ran the show.
Do not link to this site which is, in the NICS taxonomy, classed as a Hate and Intolerance site.
Jo,
Thanks for the plug.
So, please feel free to visit an OFFICIALNICS TAXONMICALLY CHALLENGED “hate and intolerance” site
http://atangledweb.squarespace.com/
You KNOW it makes sense
PS. Wonder could you pass me the details of the person who stands over this decision, from a legal perspective? Cheers.
I’ll leave that to yr legal representatives to explore, no doubt you will be prepared to spend your own money to find out the limits of freedom of expression which are extended to racistinciters to hatred in a liberal democracy. Happy to indulge.
Jo
Please don’t take this the wrong way but you “sound” like a rather angry person. Why do you resent David Vance so much?
I don’t necessarily agree with all of his opinions but—and I do mean but—he’s fairly evenhanded with his criticism. Okay, he tends for example to champion Israel above Hamas, but do ask yourself when was the last time you felt uncomfortable in the immediate proximity of an Israeli lest he self-explode?
Also on the vexed and vexing questions of Northern Ireland, I feel that Vance is pretty much on the money when he condemns ALL terrorists, loyalist and republican alike.
I’m sorry but you’ll have to come with some slightly less sweeping statements to convince me that David Vance is the rabid racist/bigot/sectarian you imagine him to be.
“So, please feel free to visit”
Well seeing as you asked so nicely…
Fab:
Keep watching and you’ll see what I am on about.
Most Sluggerites know what the man is like, even if they’re less vociferous about his racism and bigotry than me.
The man can say what he wants on his blog, until incitement to hatred legislation becomes effecive, but when he appears on the BBC (an organisation he reviles for its bias against his pov – oh wait, did I miss something?)he appears reasonable and even handed.
No talk of Islam being “a religion of pieces” or any other rants about “the problems of immigration” or bombing Gaza/Lebanon to the Stone Age.
Or justifying killing women and children to hit terrorists. Given that he was a neighbour of one of NI’s worst terrorists, Robin Jackson, he seemed a little reluctant to accept that his home be bombed in any effort to kill that terrorist. And do feel free to mention the bombing of the King David Hotel by the man who later became Prime Minister of Israel. But of course, Begin wasn’t a terrorist, in Vance’s perverted view.
Hard life in the civil service, eh Jo?
have another cup of tea.
Opposing bigotry, hypocrisy and intolerance is not the preserve of public servants but a duty for everyone.
If blogging is what this site would like it to be, then the fewer websites inciting intolerance and racial or religious hatred the better.
Such sites network and reassure bigots and racists that they’re not alone and that there are other nasty minds out there. Their closure would be no loss to anyone except to the mindset that needs to vent bile in order to prevent it having to examine the attitudes and darkness within itself.
Andrew, your post on the first page is just another example of how you and your party have finally completed the conversion to becoming Marie Antoinette.
“west belfast is within a few miles of the majority of jobs in the whole of Northern Ireland. The people there have better job prospects that those in the rest of the province. better bus and rail services, closer and better hospital care. “ Yes Andrew – let them eat cake!
Go into any of the isolated and ignored communities, catholic or protestant, in West Belfast and tell the people how fortunate they are to have all this going for them.
Your party have turned their backs on those who most need leadership and help in West Belfast – the very same people you need to come out and vote for you at election time.
Large areas of West Belfast, areas that have suffered most as a result of the last 40 years, have been negelected for so long that many of those living there have just given up.
In my opinion West Belfast needs support from all political parties to focus on the issues that are faced by the most disadvantaged – Education, Employment and anti-social behaviour being three key agenda items.
This is not an orange or green issue, West Belfast contains areas of severe deprevation on both sides of the ‘peace walls’. To make a difference we need leaders and politicians to work FOR the people, not head-in-the-sand blanket comments like those made by Mr. White
If blogging is what this site would like it to be, then the fewer websites inciting intolerance and racial or religious hatred the better.
Few would disagree, but you selected 1 particular viewpoint and 1 individual Jo. Obviously someone who doesn’t share your republican/nationalist perspective. Do you have a name for your high horse?
I have not a nationalist or republican perspective, except in the sense that I believe monarchy to be an anachronism. I happen to accept Sinn Fein’s mandate which is more than others do – preferring some form of distant government to local people representing local people.
I’m opposed to bigotry and hypocrisy wherever it raises its head – interestingly a well-known Republican website has demonstrated itself to be as intolerant to criticism as the one I drew attention to previously.
Blogging is valuable in a democracy – but providing solace and comfort to people who hate because of another persons skin or religion is not something to be accepted either in blogging or in real life.
Now: you can dismount from your own prejudiced stallion.
Fabianus
Jo gets a little rabid about David and over eggs the pudding a little bit, But some of what he allows to be published on his blog is well past acceptable complete with racism and calls to violence
Having said all that David himself was once caught out by Percy if I remember correctly that its not just SF that he doesn’t want in government but he doesn’t want nationalists/republicans/catholics/fenians, pick what ever label you want, about the place but most especially in Storomont
Jo just shouldn’t let it get so far under her skin because then Dave wins
Thank you, Sean.
I value what happens here on Slugger and think it represents a positive side of the blogosphere.
There are boundaries to what is acceptable – that in itself is not a restriction on freedom, but simply a manifestation of vigilance.
Actually, it was me:
Fourth, nationalists are de facto unfit for ANY form of Government. Why? Because they seek to destroy the State, ergo they cannot be trusted to do anything in Government.
Fifth, the institutions will NOT be up and running, count on it.
Posted by: David Vance | February 14, 2006 at 09:24 AM
“There are boundaries to what is acceptable – that in itself is not a restriction on freedom, but simply a manifestation of vigilance”
I do not read ATW anymore for a number of reasons but I resent your arrogance in deciding upon those boundaries on my behalf as I and the vast majority of Slugger readers are quite capable to do that for ourselves.
Secondly, the NICS block on “hate” (however defined) sites does not exist.
I am not arrogant enough to “decide” boundaries – I am pointing out that there is a negative side to blogging and that your resentment would be better directed elsewhere.
Taking photographs of people on the street and publishing them on the internet is actually an intrusion into personal privacy. Surprised no-one has pointed this out.
Quite apart from the chance that someone might reasonably object to the photographer and decide that the camera would be best inserted where the sun didn’t shine!