Extra time in Paris
Where in the 90 minutes Ireland scored the away goal required to level the aggregate score in the World Cup qualifier against France. Full Time France 0 – 1 Ireland (agg 1-1). Live [radio] coverage here. Update A blatant hand-ball by Henri in 1st period of extra time, but the goal is given. France 1 – 1 Ireland (agg 2 – 1) And That’s how it ends. “A travesty in Paris”. Adds The Guardian’s coverage includes this quote from Irish Justice Minister Dermot Ahern – “Millions of people worldwide saw it was a blatant double handball – not to mention a double offside – and we should put the powers that be in the cosy world of Fifa on the spot and demand a replay.” More According to the BBC report – “The Football Association of Ireland has lodged a complaint with Fifa asking for their World Cup play-off against France to be replayed.” But Republic manager Giovanni Trapattoni does not expect a replay, “When a referee decides a game has finished I know it is impossible to replay the game”. Indeed. Finally Must read Mark Devenport.
Following swiftly on from the Irish Justice Minister Dermot Ahern’s demand for a replay, the Strangford intervention will surely tip the balance with Sepp Blatter.
Heh.
Greagoir
“I bet such Unionist folk will conveniently ignore such a link.”
Richer than a Premier League footballer, coming from you.
Boo Hoo!
There really is no point in asking for a replay, it will not happen as that would mean france may not end up in the World cup. Blatter does not want a world cup without Henry, Anelka or Benzema. I do not believe this had any effect on the match last night. There is the fact however that Ireland had a much smaller chance of drawing France at the start of qualifying than they did when rules were changed during the qualifying. We have to give the team credit though, Lawrence was outstanding, he certainly played better than the other ‘big 4′ wingers that were playing in blue. Dunne’s performance brought back memories of McGrath in the Giants stadium. It was just a pity about ther misses, all of them , there were so many. To that Northern Ireland fan who seems too happy, just remember your new best player was probably more dissappointed last night than he could ever be for N.I..
Democratic
What am I enjoying exactly?
After the Slovakia game I was the only NI fan on this forum who challenged a regular posting NI fan about his dodgy anti ROI posts.
What I object to hear is the demonising of Thiery Henry which is unjust and downright sickening. I have sympathised totally with genuine ROI fans on this thread put will not condone some of the language directed at Henry. You used it yourself.
Greagoir had his behaviour pointed out earlier in the thread for his downright bigotry, so you are strange bed fellows indeed Democratic.
I think your eagerness to point the finger at Henry is possibly a bitterness at club level. Man U fan by any chance D.
Peter –
There is every point in asking for a reply, the moral pressure is being exerted primarily on the French FA here. The odds are pretty good that they’d win a replay and could progress to the World Cup with their heads held high. Henry, by backing such a call, could restore his reputation.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hIFCToqGZpk
Here we have a certain Republic of Ireland footballer, 1m 26 s in, deliberately cheating in order to gain advantage for his team. Who’d have thunk it?
Mack
As much as I would like to see a replay, FIFA don’t have the balls. It would open a whole can of worms when it comes to legal challenges in the future. When would it get down to PL games or CL games being replayed? I may sound like a cynic but Maradona’s reputation has not exactly suffered had I expect Thierry to continue as normal, fooling the ref is part of the game. Isn’t it sweet to see a N.I fan defending Henry so much because he feel’s the language is unjust and sickening. I may say as unjust and sickening as his assist last night. From the man that said,’I was kicked all over the place. I expected the referee to do his job. I don’t think he did.’ How clear he did not help the ref to do his job last night. It is complete bitterness now, but thank the lord that God was wearing the number 7 that night in Paris.
Checkov
Well done you have shown a legitimate penalty decision, whats your point did you want to flag up another memorable Irish performance
Blatter does not want a world cup without … Benzema.
Then it’s Domenech he needs to be talking to, no?
Hi Chekov,
Any game with Cascarino playing for the RoI was cheating.
My, oh my Chekov! How the mask slips…
Having seen you in your “wee smart suit” in the recent YouTube discussion posted on this site, I’d have you more as a badminton
man, myself…
Certainly not any kind of contact sport, that’s for sure.
Certainly, you wouldn’t be the type to turn out for H&W Welders, or indeed Dongeall Celtic, now would you!
Still sore from your beloved Russia being shown the gate last night? Run along now, nothing to see here….
More seriously:-
Some of the anti-ROI stuff on this thread; I mean, really, if all the posters in question can do, is gloat at the misfortunate
of another team, than they’re the sort of fans that they’re own side can undoubtably do without.
Indeed, most of the ROI [and indeed, all of the NI fans] on this thread have missed the main issue from last night’s result:-
FIFA simply don’t want “small nations” at their finals; The island of Ireland, with 2 teams, and circa 5.8million “TV consumers” simply
isn’t a big enough ‘draw’ for the global advertisers the WC Finals attract.
Bear that in mind the next time the Qualifiers are on – both associations are “persona non gratis” [sic].
PS I’d have done the same as Henry; however, I’d have had to guts to look Kilbane when he asked me in the eye, and tell him the truth.
His “old pals act” with Richard Dunne at the final whistle was what sickened me; how Big Richie didn’t crack him, I’ll never know…
CC
Any game with Cascarino playing for the RoI was cheating.
Nope it was an honest mistake — adoption IRC — and I doubt Cascarino informed the FAI at the time. Cheating would be deliberate. But had that came out at the time, there would have been a fair chance Ireland would have been replaying games. There are certainly precedents for replays based on ineligible players.
Certainly, you wouldn’t be the type to turn out for H&W Welders, or indeed Dongeall Celtic, now would you!
Ballymena United actually. And I’ve followed them to both those places. Perhaps our little coterie of Northern Irish ROI fans should avoid a discussion about who actually goes to watch their international team.
[i]He did, I am pretty sure, what any soccer player in the world would have done, and kept his head down and his mouth shut.[/i]
Posted by Mick Fealty on Nov 19, 2009 @ 02:57 PM
What a load of utter rubbish. Mick, it would seem that you really don’t know a lot about soccer. You seem to be implying that the game is played almost unanimously by cheats: can you name another high profile occasion when an outfield player kept the ball in play using his hand and then deliriously ran away to celebrate with his teammates?
You’ve missed the point [plus ca change?]
i.e. in the starting 11…
PS Northern ROI fan??? Please read the Saturday game thread [hint: shock! horror! I'm not actually from NI...]
Not surprised you’re delighted with the result…aren’t large sections of the original “War & Peace” written in French??
Which of course, was the preferable language of the Russian Aristocracy in Napolean’s era…
Which of course, isn’t news to you [I should hope!]
Amazing what other sluggerites know, isn’t it?…
Pity referendum for the lisbon treaty wasn’t still on the horizon. We might just have got a replay granted..
“Henry was being economical with the truth, the ball didn’t just hit him, he played basketball with his second touch. ”
Actually, that would have been a violation in basketball too. You have to dribble between touches, he would have been called for a “Carry”.
“Greagoir had his behaviour pointed out earlier in the thread for his downright bigotry, so you are strange bed fellows indeed Democratic.
I think your eagerness to point the finger at Henry is possibly a bitterness at club level. Man U fan by any chance D.”
Not getting at you Doctor, or Greagoir – nor Henry either for that matter – I simply agree with the idea that too many people get a little too much kick out of the others misfortune – and it can be about more than just football – as an NI supporter frequently defending our honour you know exactly what I’m talking about and so does Greagoir and just about everyone else here…..but that’s football supporters eh! Just don’t like it when it goes too far – look to the Rangers / Celtic situation for the most extreme case of something to be avoided – here especially when you have politics constantly prowling the perifery of sport.
Democratic
As long as football has existed, incidents like the one with Henry last night have happened time and again. Now of course they where playing for high stakes last night. However something has happened today which I think has totally tarnished football forever.
I think the FAI and particularly their chief executive have gone too far. They demand a replay from FIFA while insulting the governing body claiming they wanted France through. The referee had (correctly) disallowed a French goal and (correctly) denied them a penalty, but conspiracy theorists at the FAI see this as part of the plot. They then mock a player like Thierry Henry by labelling him a cheat and throw down the gauntlet to him to regain his integrity.
Im afraid Henry´s integrity is only blemished in the eyes of the bitter, like the Maradona incident is only remembered by the English media, this episode which has gained unfair comparisons to the Maradona incident, will only be remembered by the Irish and Brit media.
Contrast the arrogance of the FAI with the more down to earth disappointment of Trapatoni and Liam Brady, both men refuse to say that Henry was at fault. Both men of course know better as they are true collosus´ of world football.
The chief executive of the FAI is convinced the whole world is watching and was watching last night, im afraid not, most of the world really don´t care.
Now in regard to getting satisfaction from the ROI disappointment, absolutely not, yes a bit of piss taking is reasonable but as a NI fan who travels to both Home and Away games I do empathise greatly with my ROI counterparts. The anti-NI guys that pollute this forum, well they can kiss my ass.
The US will be drawn against either France or England and we will take pride in beating either.
Again, even with our infant league we can qualify and participate in world class competition. Your idea of having two teams just reduces both your teams to the dust bin of soccer history. You are nothing and will remain nothing due to your bigotry.
Now where did I put my tickets to South Africa?
Submit word is “planning”. That’s “planning” to go to South Africa.
Oh, did I forget to mention that having two soccer leagues in Ireland is retarded also. As is having 5 or 6 education systems, two or three governments, at least two currencies etc etc etc.
Beyond a joke.
‘Again, even with our infant league we can qualify and participate in world class competition’
The only reason that you qualify is because FIFA have given you a virtual bye into the World Cup finals by allowing up to 4 places in the World Cup to CONCACAF teams, making that federation, along with Oceania by far and away the easiest grouping to qualify from. FIFA does this because they are afraid that if the USA aren’t there, no-one in the US will actually watch the World Cup. Therefore, they make it practically impossible for the US to fail to qualify. Compare who the USA had to play in their qualifying matches compared to who Ireland had to play.
The US come up against the might of Barbados and Guatemala, losing to Costa Rico and Mexico and drawing with that powerhouse El Salvador, while Ireland played the likes of Italy and France (the two finalists from the last World Cup).
Qualifying from CONCACAF is ridiculously easy compared to qualifying from UEFA – let’s just see how you get on in the actual finals, bearing in mind that you’ve been knocked out in the first round in 3 of the last 5 tournaments.
Oh and by the way, your ‘infant’ league is 16 years old now and has lost more than $350 million since its founding.
Doctor Who:
“They then mock a player like Thierry Henry by labelling him a cheat.”
LOL! Funniest thing I read all year…”mock… label”….
FYI: He is a phucking cheat!
Exile 1
If you define a cheat in football as anyone who commits an act of foul play, then yes he is a cheat. However im sure you can see the problem with that definition, it pretty much sums up all footballers as cheats.
Cheating in sport does take place, for instance performance enhancing substance abuse which a former “Irish” international footballer suspected he was part of at his time in Marseilles.
I suppose also knowingly fielding a player 88 times for a country, knowing full well he is not remotely elligible to play for you is a form of organised cheating. One could argue that during those 88 matches in which a team qualified for 4 major tournaments, they did this unfairly and robbed other nations who played by the rules a place at those tournaments, that this was indeed cheating.
I think cheating is more serious when it´s conspirational as opposed to every day foul play.
Sligo Rovers are playing Sporting Fingal in the FAI Cup final on Sunday.
Most of the Facebook warriors who “hate” Thierry Henry and want FIFA to do their bidding are unaware that this match is even taking place. If you want to do something positive for Irish soccer go out and support your local team a couple of times.
At the very least it will give you something to post on Facebook.
Dr. Who
Had FIFA become aware of Cascarino’s inelligibility to play prior to a major championship, I imagine Ireland would have been (rightly) disqualified.
A search on Google news shows that there are over 5,000 news articles today on the match from around the world.
http://news.google.ie/news/search?aq=f&pz=1&cf=all&ned=en_ie&hl=en&q=ireland+france+soccer
Robbie94 / Henry94
Probably not, but are you seriously suggesting that only League of Ireland supporters have the right to feel raw, at the moment?
This was a show case event, compare the response of the soccer fraternity thus far (including changing the qualification rules mid-way through to favour particular teams) with the response within Rugby to the bloodgate scandal. Which sporting values would you like your children to pick up?
USA:
What you know about football could be written on an ant’s cock.
And the prize for the best one-liner goes to…
Look, the French won the match fair and square, as FIFA says. The result stands!
So let’s hope they go all the way and win the World Cup.
Henri is one of the greatest players alive today and a great role model for kids.
Vive la France! Vive le Republique!
Hope this doesn’t sound racist but the ‘France’ team didn’t look very European.
Mack
The bloodgate situation was a completely different thing. It was more like match-fixing than a missed hand ball.
The game I would like my children to take their values from is hurling.
But I do accept the bad feeling goes beyond fans of the domestic game even beyond soccer fans in general. But we have had our day of rage and now it’s time for a smidgen of perspective. We got a raw deal in a football match.
If anything positive is to come out of it then it should be a stronger case for video support for referees. I think the demand to replay the game is ridiculous.
Doctor Who
‘Ah your mate must be the one who once went to a NI match at Windsor Park and never went back because they where sickened by the bigotry, tuck away off with that old chestnut, for gawds sake.’
It was a while ago to be fair but he could tell me the match and date it happened and I saw no reason not to believe him. You’ve obviously heard this story before, are they all made-up?
Anyway I was only pointing out that not supporting ones country isn’t something peculiar to northern Catholics, it happens in Blighty too, and I would wager probably in all the former colonial powers as well.
Back to the Henry incident, a retrospective ban on the player would seem approrpriate, or how about the deduction of points/goals from offending teams who use cheating to con the ref? If there are no consequences to blatant cheating the message being sent out will be: cheat if you can get away with it, it’s all part of the game.
well i aint buying my usual baguette in Tesco’s on saturday morning. And rather than go to a French restaurant on saturday night i will stay at home. That’ll teach them frogs. And for once i wont smell of garlic on a monday morning. And on Sunday i will avoid cul de sacs. I could go on but pas merci.
The thread is now beginning to develop nicely.
In particular, now that the initial hysteria has decreased, good posts above from Doctor Who & Democratic.
As any League of Ireland fan will know, the FAI is in serious trouble financially; between being over-stretched with commitments to the
new Landsdowne Road that they’re struggling to sell Corporate LT tickets for; or indeed, acting as the “mystery benefactor”, who were
the third party providing the funds to save Cork City, they’re effectly potless.
Now, this is old hat to most people; however, the rumour-mill is now in over-drive, with particular attention [in certain quarters] being paid to
the Association’s finances…
Simply put, qualification for SA would’ve been just the “fillip” the FAI needed to get their house in order. Prior to receiving €4.5m for the TV rights
to a game last Saturday [in a stadium they don't own], there is strong word that they’re down to their last €1.5m…
Only a rumour I’ve heard, granted, but no smoke without fire where these guys are concerned; I’d hate to think this is what is the driving force behind
their calls for a replay…
There is a moral vacuum in all this, namely, if you’re on the team that has got away with cheating, then it would seem the appropriate action is to keep schtum.
Cast your minds back to earlier in this season when Palace scored a goal against Bristol C (?) which cannoned off the stantion in the back of the goal and bounced out again. The ref gave a goal kick, presumably because he’d thought it had gone wide. Not one Bristol C player had the gumpion to tell the ref it was a goal.
Is there something in FIFA’s code of play that says if a team are the beneficiares of cheating or a monumental cock-up by the officials, then that team are obliged not to mention it despite the world and his wife seeing what happened? When did this happen?
Yes, the ref and the linesman were at fault for not seeing the Henry handball, but surely he shouldn’t even have tried it at all in the first place?
Hi AN Other,
Our leagues have no mission with the English league only a cheap no frills flight away. Even Celtic/Rangers want to join it. We’d be better getting a couple of teams together and hoping to persuade the English to join a British Isles league. Then the money flow would be 2 way…
Robbie94 / Henry94 -
It was not completely different, it was on the pitch cheating – using blood capsules to fake injury – that was caught on video and broadcast on television. That put rugby in the spotlight. This incident puts soccer similarly in the spotlight.
Obviously, I’d like a replay as it gives us a chance of qualifying – but that’s not the only way FIFA can deal with this. From their initial reactions – of praising the goal and not even mentioning the hand ball on their websites, to changing the rules to favour big teams mid-competition – I’m not particularly hopeful that they will deal well with this.
The World Cup is a family event, parents watch these games with their kids. How do you explain to a 10-year old that s/he shouldn’t cheat when Henry and France are seen to benefit from cheating so clearly?
Parents put time and effort into supporting their kids sporting activities, because it benefits them. There are a lot of sports competing for their attention (particularly in Ireland where soccer is very much a minority pass time), soccer, is I think undermining the very virtues of sportmanship. It’s not just this game, diving, deliberate cheating are endemic in professional soccer. I think the hierarchy can ignore it, for now, as soccer is so big – but with the modern televised game it’s clear the rot has set it. How long before the decay?
“How do you explain to a 10-year old that s/he shouldn’t cheat when Henry and France are seen to benefit from cheating so clearly?”
Tell them that bigger countries get to screw the smaller countries even when there is supposed to be one-size-fits-all rules, just like they do with the policies of the ECB. And that is lauded as the progressive. So there is nothing wrong with the big screwing the small. It is only wrong to be born among the small. And then apologise to said child for not migrating to the big, but rather choosing to handicap said child’s future by raising it among the small. Also, tell the child to key any Citroen, Peugeot, or Renault that is parked on the street on its way to (and from) school, much like the plebs key Mercs that they will never afford to own.
So the moral of the story from the night of the match….
It’s all about winning, no matter what.
‘Fair Play’ and all that are hollow meaningless words.
So remember that it’s all about winning, no matter what!
The victor always reaps the rewards and tells the tale as they see it.
Roy Keane’s take
I think the episode is well summed up in this article with Roy Keane.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport2/hi/football/internationals/8370327.stm
robbie 94
Great minds and all that.
Hi CG,
Yeah, an interesting point.
I’d be amazed if the Old Firm ever did end up in The Premier League; the voting power of the “bottom tier” Chairmen would kibosh this, imo.
The gains to both sides from TV Revenue would be immense; however, globally, “fans” watch the league due to their support for members of the
Big 4, not because Hull are playing Wigan twice a year [with respect to both sides' fans].
Simply put, the costs of hosting each team each weekend would place a huge dent on gates’ revenue for the host teams.
In addition, who really wants the hassle of that shower at their grounds i.e. Rangers in Manchester; coupled with the disgraceful behaviour of so-called
Celtic “fans” during Rememberance Weekend [yes, they were outside the ground booing the minute's silence, but what kind of real fans aren't in the ground
when the match is about to start??]
As I stated earlier, FIFA see ‘fans’ as ‘consumers/markets’; Revenue streams “with legs”, even. The only way the FAI or the IFA will be at any major championships in the near future, is through their respective sides topping their qualification groups.
Given both teams are now “3rd-ranked” at present, a major ask, that even the most fervent of fans of either side will agree, is a long-shot.
Neither side has a population of 20/30/50 million “consumers”; hence, our money is “no good”.
Excellent article Doctor, I agree. Roy Keane is a great footballing man, a legend who has had an illustrious career in the game so he knows well what he is talking about. Several games that stand out in your mind no doubt is when he played for the Republic of Ireland that beat NI a number on of occasions, one match in particular was at Windsor Park where Ireland won 3 or 4-0….so no wonder he remains the fitting footballing icon in your eyes. He put the corrupt FAI in their place too. I also agree that Ireland fans should get over it as we do not want to be like our good English neighbours who went on about the Maradonna handball incident for over 20 years! I also agree with you regarding Henri who is an exemplary footballer and the abuse hurled at him here was very unfair. Handballs happen in football. The French team were indeed the much better team overall. Had they lost it would have been a travesty. For that I indeed hope that France will go on and win the Coup du Monde (World Cup) as they are a most deserving team.
I am sure you agree too!
Excellent article Doctor, I agree. Roy Keane is a great footballing man, a legend who has had an illustrious career in the game so he knows well what he is talking about. Several games that stand out in your mind no doubt is when he played for the Republic of Ireland that beat NI on a number of occasions, one match in particular was at Windsor Park where Ireland won 3 or 4-0…so no wonder he remains the fitting footballing icon in your eyes. He put the corrupt FAI in their place too. I also agree that Ireland fans should get over it as we do not want to be like our good English neighbours who went on about the Maradonna handball incident for over 20 years! I also agree with you regarding Henri who is an exemplary footballer and the abuse hurled at him here was very unfair. Handballs happen in football. The French team were indeed the much better team overall. Had they lost it would have been a travesty. For that I indeed hope that France will go on and win the Coup du Monde (World Cup) as they are a most deserving team.
I am sure you agree too!
Keane’s comments are interesting.
I also remember O’Shea delibrately blocking the defender, so that Dunne got a clear run at his headed goal in Sofia.
Thems the breaks…!
I see your Corkonian begrudger and raise you David Ginola
“I’m very embarrassed by the situation. I don’t feel very proud to be French this morning,” he said. “The Irish played very well and they deserved to go through as much as France, maybe more. This is a pure injustice. Everyone in France says there should be a replay.”
http://www.cityam.com/sport/w88w1ajwr3.html
greagoir
Keane indeed played and scored twice at Windsor in a 4-0 win for the republic.
His opinion and that along with Brady and Trapatoni, is obviously not shared by the Chief Executive, who to put it mildly is an idiot.
Actually hope Spain go on and win it.
AN Other
“Given both teams are now “3rd-ranked” at present, a major ask, that even the most fervent of fans of either side will agree, is a long-shot.”
Maybe you are not aware that Slovenia qualified from NI group via a play off win against Russia, they started the tournament as the 5th seeded team in the group behind 4th seeded and group winners Slovakia.
Slovenia have now qualified for two major tournaments in the last 10 years.
It is always a long shot for NI to qualify for a tournament and given the fact that Europe now has more teams with greater competition, FIFA need to recognise this. Why should we have to beat the best in the world to qualify for a tournament when the likes of the USA simply have to beat the also rans.
Since the break up of the Soviet Union and Eastern Europe, FIFA have ignored the dramatic increase in competition. Looking at the 32 qualified teams I believe 18 should have come from Europe instead of the current 13.
It´s not all doom and gloom for the ROI, as from 2016 the Euro finals will be increased to 24 teams, a move that I think will see the ROI taking a regular berth at that tournament.
Cheating and soccer go hand in hand……….
[b]Around 200 European football matches are under investigation in a match-fixing inquiry, German prosecutors have revealed.[/b]
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/europe/8370748.stm
Doctor Who,
Point well made.
I didn’t realise that Slovenia & Slovakia were “seeded” as such.
Certainly, the Czech’s [on paper] were the most likely top-ranks; I’d have had NI ahead of both of the above sides again, “on paper”. [i.e. due to a
formidable Windsor Park record].
Obviously the Poles had a say in how the group turned out, too.
From a passing eye on the results of that Group as the games progressed, it looked ultra-competitive. Deservedly so, having 2 of
the 13 teams coming from such a tight group is a fair reflection, imo, of the tough games each had in qualifying.
FIFA rankings updated this morning, with ROI at 36 and NI at 39. Given the expansion of the Euros to 24 – and your comment that ROI
should find qualification easier – both factors should give NI a serious “twist” at achieving a similiar goal?
Leaving aside the sniping from opposing fans in NI, at both sides, I think the average ROI/NI fan would look forward to some good humoured
banter, should both qualify for a future Euros’ finals.
However, as I’ve said earlier, I think both sides can kiss goodbye to one of the 13 WC places [for the forseeable].
Keane made a very good point though – we should’ve been out of sight before the “Hand of Gaul” interveened.
As for Delaney, a very, very capable business-man. Unfortunately, public speaking, and engaging in the type of ham-fisted cock-ups that saw
his auld fella “shown the gate” from the FAI [ref: the 1994 WC ticketing fiasco] do make him look like a “tulip”, as Royston Keane Himself, might say.