In an interview re-run on Slugger in the last few months Trimble stood over remarks made by Bill Craig about Vanguard liquidating the enemy and being prepared to fight. In the context of betrayal by Britian (ie a greater role for the government of Ireland in 1974) this could only have meant a resorting to ‘terrorism’ and we all know what it means for Northern Nationalists when ‘Ulster’ decides to fight.

I understand Wee Reggie was also manning the barricades at that time – perhaps a bit of work there for the HET?

Of course I was aware of this. I covered this story. But it was you that used the word ‘covorted’. Trimble did indeed talk to Billy Wright…. to tell him to back off.

You were there ? You have minutes of the discussions ? I’d love to read them.

If you were not there, of course, then you are simply making excuses for what amounts to negotiating with active terrorists.

Was he wrong to do so?

According to Trimble and his party at that time (1996) yes, it was wrong to talk to terrorists – even ones that were on ceasefire, which Billy Wright was not.

2)middle ground, SDLP/PUP/Alliance making NI a better place for the people.

3)Nationalist, SF, this is where it gets interesting, SF, gets a great deal of flak from strand 1 for creating a stream of talk- possibly not well delivered or with a great deal of content- but wanting a united Ireland, but not the old school united Ireland and thats it it will all be be fine afterwards but a united Ireland for reasons of benefit to all.

The SDLP obviously can also be lumped in with SF quite easily, the Alliance claim to be neutral on the union and so could fall into 3) in the future.

Someons claims that working class unionists don’t vote, really. Dawn is not the first working class unionist to rock the boat, however previously that voice of discontent at the status quo came from people like Gusty Spence. Can working class unonism find a political voice, can it get these ‘new’ voters out on election day? and who should be more scared if they do?

Now that they are the largest unionist party, would you concede that the electorate forgave them ?

Face it, Alan. Unionists don’t get punished by the electorate for associating with paramilitaries. In fact, going by often unionist politicians are willing to stick up for paramilitary interests (like the DUP speaking up for the enquiry into the murder of Billy Wright), they clearly feel they have some kind of responsibility for them.

Trimble covorting with Billy Wright… rubbish..
anyway whis is it that the only unionist group that have enjoyed real growth recently are the TUV and they are no friends of loyalist paramilitaries. Also the DUP did suffer as result of Ulster Resistance link. They only became the lead unionist party when the unionist electorate realised that they too were up for a settlement.

I think your view that the paramilitary link has not been a problem for unionist voters is wrong and proved electorally. The UDP disappeared and the PUP are not exactly growing massively. Overt links to a paramilitary organisation is the ‘kiss of death’ for a unionist party.

So why didn’t the UUP suffer electorally after Trimble cavorted with Billy Wright at Drumcree (this event did not harm Trimble’s career – in fact, it contributed to his rise to UUP leader), and why didn’t the DUP suffer over Ulster Resistance or the 1978 strike they organized in concert with the UDA ? And several current low-level DUP individuals have paramilitary histories. They do, of course, say that it’s all behind them ..

Why didn’t the UUP get punished by the unionist electorate for supporting Hugh Smyth as Lord Mayor of Belfast, and subsequently supporting Frank McCoubrey and Hugh Smyth (again) as deputy Lord Mayors in later years ?

The electoral evidence is that UUP and DUP politicians do not lose votes for associating with loyalist paramilitaries.

cut the bull

You would be better staying silent and letting everyone think you are an eejit rather than posting on here about unionism and confirming it.

The PUP is not on any mainstream unionist’s radar and the majority of “working class” unionists dont vote for anyone.

and Alan is totally right in that the unionist electorate (ie those who do vote) have no time for so called loyalist paramiliteries either

Dawners also came out with a scorcher at the party conference “You get no sense of the poverty, the slums that passed for houses, the sectarian rants and rabble-rousing politicians threatening to fight to the last drop of everyone else’s blood”. Perhaps it is not an original line about the blood – but I hadnt heard it before – obviously a chip off the Irvine baock.

Perhaps there should be a Slugger political quip of the year – that would get my vote.

The PUP also had something on their website which was less than complimentary about Repbulicanism implying that the United Irishmen were good eggs whose tradition has been thrashed by the IRA. Interesting stuff.

re. Education – it was disappointing that the recent Education debate in Stormo was not covered here on Slugger as Ruane was excellent and dealt confidently with all the harranguing – last time I heard her she was very poor – perhaps Grizzly is putting the Stormo bunch through their paces.

I do not know whether or not it is illegal to ban double jobbing. Fundamentally, I think it should be up to the electorate to decide whether a candidate is capable of representing them effectively, just like it should be up to the electorate to vote for a candidate in the full knowledge that he/she may not take his/her seat.

Furthermore, this report hasn’t been implemented yet. I would expect both Sinn Fein and the DUP to request that the double jobbing be permitted to continue for the time being, using the stability of the political process as an excuse. The DUP would have a hard time building up credible candidates to take over its Westminster seats in such short notice, which would create an opportunity for the TUV. Life would also get very interesting for Sinn Fein; does Gerry Adams go to Westminster or the Assembly ? (not that it makes a lot of difference as he is never in the assembly anyway). And then what happens if the Assembly falls ? All of a sudden you’ve got all these senior SFers out of work.

It is indeed Brian, but, getting rid of the financial incentive for been involved in politics should result in people with a real interest in democratic politics coming to the fore.

On a slightly different note, its a shame no slugger blogger has done a post on the PUP’s clash with the UUP in Stormont over the causes behind the conflict in NI, many people on here highlight and complain about the narrow ‘tribal’ narrative of politics in NI, yet here was Dawn a unionist pointing the finger at unionism as the reason. Its even more surprising as the arguement involved her pointing out to a middleclass unionist that his parties opposition to a republican ministers policy on education was condemning working class unionist kids to a crap education.

the unionist posters here continually discuss unionism as a block, a single entity, yet here is a small party rocking the unionist boat. Its refreshing for nationalists that for once the debate among unionist politicans was not about just how much you hate republicans, but rather how unionist politicans were failing unionists on a real life subject. GO Dawn!

Indeed it may contravene the ECHR.

It is best dealt with by stopping the salary and all expenses at Stormont if someone is also elected to Westminster.

re. “7.Brian just doesnt understand. He thinks not only the Northern Irish but the Scots and Welsh should confine themselves to their reservations and not involve themselves in the politics of the UK”

Well most Nationalists in Norn Iron think that too – given that they dont want their MPs wasting their time travelling to an overseas parliament. It has not done Unionism any good truning up, being betrayed (according to themselves) and largely ignored – why bother anyway when they can simply go straight to number 10 like Robbo does if something important crops up.

The story here is not about being ‘good Ministers’ it is about how the Robinson’s greed is going to be curtailed