Lisbon Essay (10): Ireland’s opportunity to kill Lisbon in the water..
Nigel Farage of UKIP has spent a lot of the last week trying to make up for something of deficit in credible speakers on the No side of the Argument. The UKIP leader here argues that the Irish people wider responsibilities than just their own futures. With less than 1% of the European Union’s population Ireland is only country that’s allowed a free vote on whether Lisbon goes ahead or not, and offers substantial evidence that a second No vote would effectively kill it off for good. If Ireland says no, then the UK will follow suit and Lisbon is dead.
By Nigel Farage
The second referendum on the Lisbon Treaty is, of course entirely an Irish matter. Any intervention from a foreigner, particular a foreigner of a peculiarly ‘home-counties’ disposition, pin-striped and so on, English type to boot must be a disaster for any partisan of either side. Or so the Irish media promoted myth goes.
So why the devil am I getting involved? What on earth am I doing popping up on RTÉ, skewering (well something like that according to commentators on politics.ie) Dick Roche in debate in Dublin and talking to the various Irish mainstream press.
I am still waiting for a call from the Skibbereen Eagle, but I can assure you that if they were to call I would be happy to talk to them.
Because the idea that what happens in Ireland is of interest to nobody else is just not true. Firstly the proverbial luck of the Irish means that on October the 2nd they will not just be voting on their own future as a nation, but also as proxies for half a billion Europeans.
According to the latest figures, the Republic currently makes up less than 1% of the population of the EU. As the only country where the people have a say about the way in which we will all be governed each and every vote posted next month can be multiplied a hundredfold.
Think about that. 99% of the population of this EU, this prison of nations have been effectively disenfranchised. And they, and we and I look toward Ireland as a beacon of hope.
Remember that Ireland has acted as our saviour before. It was Ireland that kept alive the standard of Western civilisation whilst all else was crushed under the barbarian yoke. So the burden placed upon the country is one that it is well equipped to take up.
And what a burden. Brian Cowen spoke last week about rather menacing “consequences”. Though he did not spell them out he vaguely referred to further loans from the ECB and the money market being under threat.
Then there was Margot Wallstrom, self described “propaganda Commissioner” in Dublin on Friday making people’s flesh creep with references to Iceland’s economic collapse.
The employers federation IBEC are claiming that exports will collapse if there is a ‘No’ vote. Even Seamus Heaney weighed in this weekend, “will have lost ourselves in the modern world”, Europe he said was “more than a bureaucracy, it’s an ideal”.
What patent twaddle. All those threats, all those pious niceties were thrown around last time and they were as meaningless then as they are now.
Has Ireland been discriminated against? No, of course not. Perhaps we can forgive the laureates’ idealism. But the rest of them are downright dishonest.
A counter viewpoint to these heralds of doom can be seen in the FT where one of their key European commentators, a true EU believer Wolfgang Munchau, only yesterday:
“Last year, after a first referendum produced an overwhelming No, I argued in a series of columns that a definite rejection of the treaty would effectively strike that country off the political and economic map. I no longer believe that to be the case. If the Irish vote No, I now believe it will be the end of the treaty, not of Ireland”.
So the people of Ireland should be of good heart. The wave of gratitude across the continent that followed the previous rejection was palpable. Oh, no, not in the political classes, the one’s who talk of a ‘post-democratic society’, no they will be livid, but amongst the peoples of Europe. My post box last year is a testament to that.
But of course a ‘No’ vote would not just a moral victory, a ‘damn you all we will do what we believe to be right for ourselves’, and none shall gainsay us’ an attitude of mind well shared this side of the Irish sea, but also of enormous an immediate practical import.
If Ireland votes ‘No’, then the UK will have the chance to vote, and we know that she will vote ‘No’. And if that happens then the cloistered Eurocrats, the head in the sky idealists, and the invisible political elite that have the temerity to tell us what is in our best interest, rather than allowing us to speak for ourselves will have to address the key issue facing our continent.
What is it that the people want? Because, from all accounts, and nearly all fair votes, the current EU is surely not it.
Topic: Economy, Government, Politics
Region: EU, Global, Ireland
I was recently on the south coast of Ireland, Dunmore East to be exact and there met a wonderful Irish patriot. She felt grossly insulted by having to vote again on the constitution/Treaty of Lisbon. “I voted NO the first time and will do so again.”
She knew only too well that the bureaucrats in Brussels never take NO for an answer and will keep repeating referendums until they get the answer they are looking for or just proceed anyway. She was furious.
Mickhall,
“William, why do you set your democratic bar so low. What is wrong with one citizen one vote?”
Nothing, and I never suggested there was anything wrong with it. However depending on the voting system one citizen one vote, doesn’t always mean which ever party gets the most votes gets in. Which is why I like the Irish PR system more than the UK first past the post.
In one of my previous posts I say that I would like more pan-european voting and power shifted from the commision and council of ministers to the European Parilament.
However the comission will be there whether you vote yes or no, it is a little irrelevant as to which way you vote.
I am going to vote yes for a few reasons, one of which is that some power gets shifted to the EU parliament. While the result will not be perfect, it is an improvement.
UKIP SHOULD JUST GO HOME – GANLEY
The United Kingdom Independence Party should pack up its tent and go home, Libertas Leader Declan Ganley said this evening.
Mr. Ganley said that the intervention of the party was “every bit as unwelcome as the parade of Brussels mandarins that will be wheeled out over the coming weeks to lecture the Irish people”
“We all know that a “Yes” to Lisbon will give the UK more of a say in our affairs – and we may well get a British President of the EU speaking on behalf of Irish people throughout the world – but this interference is unwarranted, unwelcome, unhelpful, and unnecessary” Mr. Ganley said.
“The Irish people showed the world in the first vote that they are not sheep, and will not be bullied. Mr. Farage’s intentions in arriving to these shores are known only to himself, but we do not need a foreign political party to tell us that our politicians are a bunch of arrogant clowns who won’t take no for an answer. We know it already, thanks very much”.
Ends
I am going to vote yes for a few reasons, one of which is that some power gets shifted to the EU parliament.
William
Fair enough, that is your right, I just feel in todays world, with all the mistakes the current generation of UK and Irish mainstream politicians have made, it will do them, and us no harm if they are pulled up short. I believe a no vote is the best way to let them know, the electorate are no longer prepared to give them a blank cheque.
One of the major problems in recent years in both Ireland and the UK, is there has been no parliamentary opposition worthy of the name. This is highlighted by the fact that all three mainstream Irish political party’s, as far as Lisbon is concerned, sing from the same hymn book. The same is true on the economic crises and in the UK also Afghanistan and MP’s expense fiddles.
Thus in my view as I have said above, it is up to the Irish electorate to pull the political elite up short and Lisbon gives them a golden and one off opportunity to do this and express their disapproval of the political elite.
Best regards
Mick
Mick,
I agree that the Irish and UK governments have made a mess and the opposition is even more hopeless…. However voting against Lisbon won’t make any difference to them at all, they will be still in a job. I want to get FF where it will really hurt, in a general election.
As General de Gaulle once said, in a referendum answers are given to questions that were not asked
A friend spotted an anti-UKIP banner…. the UK interference party
UKIP needs to stay out of it. A leaflet drop in Ireland will result in more people viting yes. Are they crazy? Yes it has an impact on every European nation, but just because the UK isnt a very good democracy in that it doesnt give its people a vote, doesnt mean you should interfere. We will vote in Irelands interest. Whether yes or no. But seriously!? the UKIP dropping leaflets here will only help rubbish the NO compaign of the Socalist’s here. They are not right wing, they have nothing in common. People who dont know which way to vote will see a UKIP leaflet, there lies and that will discredit their valid no campaign. Muppets
PLEASE PLEASE – Lovely Ireland – do NOT be misled or intimidated by threats from the EU.
You will NOT be ‘penalised’ or ‘ostracised’ by the EU if you have the courage to vote NO on the LisCon Treaty.
Vote NO – you will be a candle blowing in the wind for the freedoms of the rest of the peoples of the EUSSR who have not been given a vote.
Were the EU ‘elites’ to ‘punish’ Eire the way it seems to have been threatening to do so – that’s not going to make them look fair, or unbiased or democratic is it ? And it would NOT happen.
Vote No to the LisCon Treaty – and all that happens is that the EU will continue along its juggernaut way – but WITHOUT taking any more power or rights away from citizens of sovereign states.
The EUSSR is corrupt; the accounts haven’t been signed off for 14 years – where’s all the money gone. Eire is in financial problems BECAUSE of the EU; when your interest rates should have risen to halt inflation your Government could NOT do so because you were in the Euro (Mickey Mouse0 money. Had you retained your own currency the financial problems you have at the moment would be less…….
As a strong and independent nation I do not understand how you have allowed yourselves to be brain-washed into thinking that everything in the EUSSR is fine – IT IS NOT. iT’S CORRUPT, AND IS LED BY CROOKS – WHO WANT OUR MONEY, WHO WANT TO CONTROL US, AND WHO WANT TO DENY US FREEDOM OF SPEECH.
Your MPs and MEPs will have to vow an OATH of allegience to the EUSSR FIRSt – Above their loyalty to their country – the EUSSR comes first. Smacks of an act of Treachery and Treason and a Traitor.
Please Eire – SAVE DEMOCRACY FOR ALL THE CITIZENS OF EUROPE – Be Brave – Vote NO – stand up to the corrupt ‘elites’ in Brussels.
Anne,
Your argument that Irish people should vote no for the others in Europe who have not been given a vote is very strange for reasons:
1 – Why should Irish people vote any other way other than what is best for Ireland? Be it for or against.
2 – We are not being asked to vote on our views on the democratic process (or otherwise) in other countries such as the UK.
3 – As Ireland’s population makes up about 1% of the EU total. The argument that we should vote for the other 99%, is the most undemocratic argument I have ever heard. Especially as the counties of the other 99% through their democratic process have come out in favour of Lisbon.
4 – More people voted for the Lisbon and the similar EU constitution proposal, than against. So the logical conclusion of your argument is we should vote yes as that is what the people of Europe want.
Anne,
technical points first – best to refer to Ireland as Ireland not Eire and we are also very familiar with the written word and do not need unecessary capitalisation to understand English.
Secondly, if you belive the EU is corrupt and all round bad-dogs you cannot then also argue that ” that’s not going to make them look fair, or unbiased or democratic is it ? And it would NOT happen.”
Thridly, most people in Ireland will vote for Europe becasue they (correctly) percieve that we cannot afford not to maximise our influence at a time we desperately need all the powerful friends we can get.
Fourthly, your best bet at scuppering Lisbon(which in itelsf would not be a bad thing if some else did it) is to concentrate on pushing the arguement in Britian where the mad-dog-crazy-right-wing of the Tories and UKIP seem to think that Britian is beter than everyone else.
Why does the UKIP have to fight for British democracy in Ireland? Simples (as a certain meerkat would say): it is because they, in common with 26 of the EU’s 27 Member States, are not allowed to fight for British democracy in the UK. If the EU demanded that the people of all of its Member States had an absolute right to either approve or disapprove of a document that alters their fundamental constitutional, political, civil, human, and national rights rather than declaring these the peoples’ fundamental rights where to be determined by the state (and not by the people), then they would have allowed the people to ratify by referendums in all 27 Member State rather than actively discourage the Member States from doing so.
Those who now protest about “foreigners” having an advisory input into Irish affairs are those who are conspiring to transfer sovereign control of Irish affairs to foreigners. In addition, these muppets make no protest when Europhile “foreigners” such as Lech Walesa campaign in Ireland to promote a Yes vote. Clearly then, their actual agenda is censorship of the No campaign. That censorship is in line with their contempt for democracy as evident in their support for the Lisbon treaty.
EUSSR? Please remind me which member states of the European Union are Soviet Socialist Republics?