Comments on: Lisbon: Humility is the key to a Yes victory… http://sluggerotoole.com/2009/08/29/lisbon-humility-is-the-key-to-a-yes-victory/ Conversation, politics and stray insights Sun, 27 May 2012 04:21:45 +0000 hourly 1 http://wordpress.org/?v=3.3.2 By: Wilde Rover http://sluggerotoole.com/2009/08/29/lisbon-humility-is-the-key-to-a-yes-victory/comment-page-1/#comment-342179 Wilde Rover Mon, 31 Aug 2009 04:59:36 +0000 #comment-342179 Mick, “Whichever side of the fence the fact your own a political class that cannot connect with the Irish public is worrying for democracy.” Astroturfing is probably a better idea than the Rapists for Europe campaign the political parties might come up with. “No means yes, no means yes, you dirty little sluts” doesn’t inspire a lot of positive feelings. As for the “It’s the economy, stupid” argument, I find it works better on your political opponents rather than on the electorate as a whole. And as for your concerns about democracy, I believe Valery Giscard d’Estaing put it best when he said: "…public opinion will be led to adopt, without knowing it, the proposals we dare not present to them directly." Mick,

“Whichever side of the fence the fact your own a political class that cannot connect with the Irish public is worrying for democracy.”

Astroturfing is probably a better idea than the Rapists for Europe campaign the political parties might come up with. “No means yes, no means yes, you dirty little sluts” doesn’t inspire a lot of positive feelings.

As for the “It’s the economy, stupid” argument, I find it works better on your political opponents rather than on the electorate as a whole.

And as for your concerns about democracy, I believe Valery Giscard d’Estaing put it best when he said:

“…public opinion will be led to adopt, without knowing it, the proposals we dare not present to them directly.”

]]> By: Mick Fealty http://sluggerotoole.com/2009/08/29/lisbon-humility-is-the-key-to-a-yes-victory/comment-page-1/#comment-342139 Mick Fealty Mon, 31 Aug 2009 01:07:49 +0000 #comment-342139 Oh, meant to include this: http://url.ie/2ayh Oh, meant to include this: http://url.ie/2ayh

]]> By: Mick Fealty http://sluggerotoole.com/2009/08/29/lisbon-humility-is-the-key-to-a-yes-victory/comment-page-1/#comment-342138 Mick Fealty Mon, 31 Aug 2009 01:07:11 +0000 #comment-342138 Henry, It took two goes to get divorce through. There's no legal or moral principle that I can see being breached here. Noes are much easier than yeses. That said it's up to the yes camp to convince people and they are plainly not doing so. Getting celebs to do it on your behalf because you think politicians are too toxic to talk to the public about, erm, politics, is nuts. Will and humility is the very least it requires to get this though. Whichever side of the fence the fact your own a political class that cannot connect with the Irish public is worrying for democracy. Its not even that it's any better on the No side. In that respect, Michael is bang on the money this is indicative of a deep malaise. A second Republic anyone? FT, That's close to the figures that the Sindo have in one of their dodgy Telephone polls today... And I agree with your reading of it. Henry,

It took two goes to get divorce through. There’s no legal or moral principle that I can see being breached here.

Noes are much easier than yeses. That said it’s up to the yes camp to convince people and they are plainly not doing so.

Getting celebs to do it on your behalf because you think politicians are too toxic to talk to the public about, erm, politics, is nuts.

Will and humility is the very least it requires to get this though. Whichever side of the fence the fact your own a political class that cannot connect with the Irish public is worrying for democracy.

Its not even that it’s any better on the No side. In that respect, Michael is bang on the money this is indicative of a deep malaise.

A second Republic anyone?

FT,

That’s close to the figures that the Sindo have in one of their dodgy Telephone polls today… And I agree with your reading of it.

]]> By: FutureTaoiseach http://sluggerotoole.com/2009/08/29/lisbon-humility-is-the-key-to-a-yes-victory/comment-page-1/#comment-342078 FutureTaoiseach Sun, 30 Aug 2009 16:54:06 +0000 #comment-342078 Pro-Lisbon outfit "We Belong" (to Fianna Fáil) has what is says is a poll by Behaviour and Attitudes of 500 24-40 yr olds today claiming 36% would vote yes, 24% no, and the rest undecided. If we get figures like that for the electorate as a whole, then we're back where we were weeks from the no vote. Here's hoping we send this vile document to the dustbin of history where it belongs. Pro-Lisbon outfit “We Belong” (to Fianna Fáil) has what is says is a poll by Behaviour and Attitudes of 500 24-40 yr olds today claiming 36% would vote yes, 24% no, and the rest undecided. If we get figures like that for the electorate as a whole, then we’re back where we were weeks from the no vote. Here’s hoping we send this vile document to the dustbin of history where it belongs.

]]> By: Henry94 http://sluggerotoole.com/2009/08/29/lisbon-humility-is-the-key-to-a-yes-victory/comment-page-1/#comment-342012 Henry94 Sat, 29 Aug 2009 21:48:54 +0000 #comment-342012 They are going back to the people asking us to overturn our earlier vote. It's hard to fake humility in that situation. When Lisbon was defeated the economic crisis was not yet obvious and Brian Cowen hard a reasonable amount of good will. I don't see how they can expect to pass it. They are going back to the people asking us to overturn our earlier vote. It’s hard to fake humility in that situation. When Lisbon was defeated the economic crisis was not yet obvious and Brian Cowen hard a reasonable amount of good will. I don’t see how they can expect to pass it.

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