Gerry Adams and Kieran Doherty, 29 July 1981
Writing on his blog, Gerry Adams relates an anecdote from his 29 July 1981 visit with Owen Carron to the hunger strikers in Long Kesh. This anecdote is sourced from his autobiography, Before the Dawn. It is important to put the account of this conversation into context, in order to fully appreciate its meaning. Firstly, Kieran Doherty’s condition was dire; he was nearly blind, had considerable difficulty hearing, and was demonstrably ‘delirious’, hallucinating and unaware of his surroundings. At this stage, when he was conversing with Adams, he was in no position to be making any strategic decisions. He was hardly fit to process any information about the negotiations with the British, had he been fully informed, being conducted on his behalf by Adams. As told by Adams, Kieran Doherty was blind and confused, despite being described as ‘firm’ on the five demands; he lost track of who was in the room with him, greeting Bik McFarlane only to ask not much later where Bik was, and to ask after the boys repeatedly, even after his questions had already been answered. Yet it seems today Adams is holding up this conversation as some sort of defense against the charge that the hunger strikers were sacrificed for Sinn Fein’s political gain.
What is really significant about this piece is that it shows the hunger strikers were unaware that they had already broken Thatcher. From at least early July and possibly before, if some accounts are to be believed, she was offering Gerry Adams and Martin McGuinness four of the five demands and by the time Gerry Adams was sitting with Kieran Doherty, the offer from the British that Adams had been negotiating was what the prisoners got when the hunger strike ended in October.
Although already having won the concession of letters and parcels, only 10 days before the 29 July meeting with the hunger strikers Adams was still stalling the British, seeking clarification over what could be in the parcels. (“Association during leisure hours was not enough and in addition they would need specific assurances as to what they would be allowed to receive in parcels.” Beresford, Ten Men Dead, pg 325.) The hunger strikers’ commitment was used by Adams as leverage in the negotiations with the British, although by this point the hunger strikers, according to Pat McGeown, whom Bik McFarlane was striving mightily to keep in line and silenced, were more committed to each other and those who had preceded them in death than they were tied down to the details of the five demands. “When Gerry was in I didn’t say anything to him,” [McGeown] says. “Bik had already said to me, ‘Don’t make your opinions known,’ to which I had given my commitment. I just accepted [the situation].” (O’Malley, Biting at the Grave, pg 83.)
To Brownie from Bik Sun 26.7.81
“…had a long yarn with Pat Beag [McGeown] this morning and impressed upon him the necessity of keeping firmly on the line. I explained that independent thought was sound, but once it began to stray from our well considered and accepted line that it became extremely dangerous. He accepted what I said alright. Also I stressed the need for all of us to have confidence in you lot.” (Comm quoted in Beresford, Ten Men Dead, pg 333.)
By August, after having had the visit from Adams and Carron, McGeown and Devine were discussing coming off the strike; neither wanted to be seen as saving himself but both recognised the futility of carrying on – except for one strategic gain: the election of Owen Carron. “I [McGeown] said to him [Devine], ‘Hold out for ten days. After the Fermanagh-South Tyrone by-election, I don’t see any political point in us continuing the hunger strike and I’ll be saying that quite openly.’ To say to him [Devine] to come off it before it [the by-election], politically I did think we needed to stay until the whole process had been completed with Owen Carron.” (O’Malley, Biting at the Grave, pg 84.) Devine died the day of the election; he was the last hunger striker to die.
An Bean Uasal from Bik 28.7.81
“…Was up in hospital tonight. [...] Doc was able to talk, but became delirious and told me he was ‘talking to Bik earlier on and had a yarn with Bobby’. He’s practically blind and has great difficulty in hearing. His spirit is strong and he is very determined.” (Comm quoted in Beresford, Ten Men Dead, pg 338.)
Gerry Adams, Leargas blog:
I thought of the last time I saw Kieran. In the prison hospital in the H Blocks of Long Kesh. By this time he was the TD for Cavan Monaghan. It was the 29 July 1981. Kieran died on August 2.
‘I’m not a criminal.’ He said
.
‘For too long our people have been broken. The Free Staters, the church, the SDLP. We won’t be broken. We’ll get our five demands. If I’m dead … well, the others will have them. I don’t want to die, but that’s up to the Brits. They think they can break us. Well they can’t.’ He grinned self-consciously: Tiocfaidh ar lá.’
We shook hands before I left, an old internee’s hand-shake, firm and strong.
‘Thanks for coming in, I’m glad we had that wee yarn. Tell everyone, all the lads, I was asking for them and … ‘ He continued to grip my hand.
‘Don’t worry, we’ll get our five demands. We’ll break Thatcher. Lean ar aghaidh.
Talking later to Kieran’s father Alfie, his eyes brimming with unshed tears, in the quiet cells in the H-Blocks of Long Kesh, I felt a raw hatred for the injustice which created this crisis.
I am glad to say that I still feel the same today 28 years after Kieran’s death.
Gerry Adams, Before the Dawn, pages 308-310:
“Brendan [McFarlane] arranged for us to go and see Kieran Doherty. I told the lads that I wouldn’t tell Doc of their position.
‘He knows it anyway,’ someone said.
‘We saw him last night after Father Crilly’s visit.’
‘I know,’ said I.
Doc was propped up on one elbow; his eyes, unseeing, scanned the cell as he heard us entering.
‘Mise atá ann,’ (‘It’s me’) said Brendan McFarlane.
‘Ahh Bik, cad é mar atá tú?’ arsa Doc. (‘Ahh Bik, how are you?’ Doc said.)
‘Nílim romh dhona, agus tú féin?‘ (‘I’m not too bad, and yourself?’)
‘Tá mé go hiontach; tá daoine eile anseo? Cé…?‘ (‘I’m great; are there other people here? Who…?’)
‘Tá Gerry Adams, Owen Carron agus Seamus Ruddy anseo. Teastaíonn uatha caint leat.‘ (‘Gerry Adams, Owen Carron, and Seamus Ruddy are here. They want to speak with you.’)
‘Gerry A’, fáilte.‘ (‘Gerry A’, welcome.’) He greeted us all, his eyes following our voices. We crowded around the bed, the cell much too small for four visitors. I sat on the side of the bed. Doc, whom I hadn’t seen in years, looked massive in his gauntness, as his eyes, fierce in their quiet defiance, scanned my face.
I spoke to him quietly and slowly, somewhat awed by the man’s dignity and by the enormity of our mission.
He responded to my probing with paitence.
‘You know the score yourself,’ he said, ‘I’ve a week in me yet. How is Kevin [Lynch] holding out?’
‘You’ll both be dead soon. I can go out now, Doc and announce that it’s over.’
He paused momentarily and reflected, then: ‘We haven’t got our five demands and that’s the only way I’m coming off. Too much suffered for too long, too many good men dead. Thatcher can’t break us. Lean ar aghaidh. I’m not a criminal.’
I continued with my probing. Doc responded.
‘For too long our people have been broken. The Free Staters, the church, the SDLP. We won’t be broken. We’ll get our five demands. If I’m dead…well, the others will have them. I don’t want to die, but that’s up to the Brits. They think they can break us. Well they can’t.’ He grinned self-consciously. ‘Tiocfaidh ár lá.‘ (‘Our day will come.’)
‘How are you all keeping? I’m glad you came in. I can only see blurred shapes. I’m glad to be with friends. Cá bhfuil Bik? (Where is Bik?) Bik, stay staunch. How’s the boys doing?’
We talked quietly for a few minutes. Owen got another ribbing about the election. We got up to go. I told Doc to get the screw to give us a shout if he wanted anything.
We shook hands, an old internee’s handshake, firm and strong.
‘Thanks for coming in, I’m glad we had that wee yarn. Tell everyone, all the lads, I was asking for them and…’ He continued to grip my hand.
‘Don’t worry, we’ll get our five demands. We’ll break Thatcher. Lean ar aghaidh.’
Outside Doc’s cell, the screw led us in to speak to Kieran’s father, Alfie, and brother, Michael, who had just arrived to relieve Kieran’s mother.
We spoke for about five minutes. I felt an immense solidarity with the Doherty family, broken-hearted, like all the families, as they watched Kieran die. Yet because they understood their son, they were prepared to accept his wishes and were completely committed to the five demands for which he was fasting.
Talking to Alfie, his eyes brimming with unshed tears, in the quiet cells in the H-Blocks of Long Kesh, I felt a raw hatred for the injustice that created this crisis. Alfie, concerned for us, had a quiet word with Bik McFarlane and left to sit with Kieran.”
Note: Kieran Doherty died 4 days later.
Earlier on Slugger:
Prolonging the Hunger Strike: The Derailing of the ICJP
Updated Timeline and Upcoming Discussion Brian Rowan and Brendan Duddy to speak at Feile
Gulladuff: More Heat Than Light Gerry Adams meets with some of the families of some of the hunger strikers.
Gerry Adams to meet Hunger Strikers Families; Inquiry Sought Families of the hunger strikers call for a public inquiry; Adams arranges meeting
“This is a huge opportunity and I feel there’s a potential here to end this” Bik McFarlane miraculously recovers his memory and completely backtracks on every denial he had made previously, while also making up new, contradictory details never before mentioned
“I will not be attending and will not send a representative” Gerry Adams refuses to attend public meeting about the hunger strikes; extremely revealing discussion in the comments section
1981 Hunger Strike Truth Commission Includes text of British document of July offer and transcript of Willie Gallagher’s speech at the Derry meeting
The Truth is a Heartbreaking Thing Initial summary of Derry meeting
Upcoming Debate: “What is the Truth Behind the Hunger Strike?” Announcement of public meeting and note of Radio Foyle debate between Raymond McCartney and Richard O’Rawe (also discussed on The Pensive Quill: A Shifting Narrative)
When in a hole… Contrasts between Danny Morrison’s position and previously published accounts of the time
What were the hunger strikers told? Questions emerge that cast doubt on what the hunger strikers knew when about what negotiations were being conducted on their behalf by the Adams subcommittee.
“Let’s have the whole truth” – Danny Morrison and Richard O’Rawe statements
Did Thatcher Kill All 10 or Only 4? – contains statements and interview excerpts
Read all abaht it! This week’s shock horror expose on the Hunger Strike from ‘Rusty Nail’!
On a different note, Rusty Nail will next week have another new shock horror expose on the Hunger Strike.
Rusty, you missed the part where Gerry Adams*quietly pressed a pillow upon the hunger striker’s** face and pressed down while emitting an eerie chuckle and hoarsely whispering, “Die! Die so that my dreams of supreme power may be fulfilled. Heh-heh-heh!”
** The part of Gerry Adams was played by the late Boris Karloff and the hunger striker** was played by Leonardo di Caprio.
This has been a Rusty Nail horror movie from Youcouldn’tmakeitup Productions released through Slugger Distribution
Why did Mountain Climber refuse to talk about his knowledge of Gerry Adams and the hunger strike at the West Belfast Feile this week?
He talked about everything else, but refused to discuss the hunger strike. Odd.
Adams is an evil bastard. You are officially the last person on earth to work this out.
“Adams is an evil bastard. You are officially the last person on earth to work this out.”
I’d say he’s one of a minority who now understand what a sociopath is, and that the Shinners are full of them. The rest of the muppets think the sun shines out of their…
Unless, of course, they’re all prepared to admit that they freely elected sociopaths to politcal office – which I doubt.
To slugger admin this type of nonsense only detraccts from this excellent site and puts people of posting altogeyher…
a few typos but thr point stands
I’d say he’s one of a minority who now understand what a sociopath is, and that the Shinners are full of them.
Adams is an evil bastard.
We’re getting there. The Book of Revelation says the beast has seven heads and ten horns, and if related to Gerry Adams, the clear impression is that the seven heads would symbolise the seven man IRA army council (neutralised by John Hume) and the ten horns would be the hunger strikers.
Adams has gained political power from using the army council and the hunger strikers. The question has to be asked: – did he do it for himself or for the movement?
Who receives the proceeds of his books but he himself? Who uses the proceeds to fund a Donegal holiday home? It seems that he’s in it for everybody, especially himself.
Now if I could get a numeric alphabet that ties him into the number of the beast. For if we could do that we would have the number, the heads, and the horns, not bad for a start.
J Kelly,
Really? I think Rusty has to be in the running for Blogger of the year myself for the work on documenting and informing the debate on what seems like an increasingly murky period.
Can’t say I enjoy reading a word though, very difficult topic and it seems for many the reaction is fingers in the ears instead of debating an increasingly supported but challengable narrative.
Rusty
Watch out for the American bloggers defending Gerry Adams for they may be CIA operatives interesed in keeping the peace process alive here, and Gerry Adams is seen as crucial to that process, in order to keep Middle East peace interests alive because apparently our process emphasises the importance of dialogue, which is crucial to the Middle East.
These operatives can be very vociferous and potentially dangerous.
Just how evil can Adams get? Imagine the nerve of him to write a book and earn money from doing so. Whatever will the man get up to next?
Why do many republicans shy away from this topic and simply go for a default setting that is akin to stopping their ears and humming ‘la, la, la’ as loudly as they can?
Also why the elevation of these ten deaths “for Ireland” over the many hundreds who were killed without having the choice to live that the convicts had?
“slugger admin this type of nonsense only detraccts from this excellent site and puts people of posting altogeyher…”
…. no….. ……no more …stop …i cannot stand to have my dreams shattered
” He talked about everything else, but refused to discuss the hunger strike. Odd”
I am sure there is a rational explanation
I’ve said it before and probably will again, we should not be afraid to explore the full story, indeed we are duty bound to do so and to find the truth whatever way it lies. Like Mark, I don’t find it enjoyable, but I am interested in the full truth.
John, I have a lot of respect for Christianity as a force for good in the world but I’m not sufficiently knowledgeable about it to comment on what clues it gives to the identity of the Antichrist.
When people are engaged in the commission of a multiplicity of crimes over a long period of time, the odds must be that their will sufficient evidence of their involvement in one or more crimes to prosecute them. When that happens, it presents the intelligence agencies with an opportunity to turn that person by presenting them with a choice of either co-operating with the agency or spending a very long period of time in prison. With sociopaths, they will always choose whichever option best serves their self-interest, and spending a long period in jail in not in anyone’s self-interest. So, the odds are that most of the old trouts are old touts. It’s not always case that they had a change or heart or were bribed.
I wasn’t referring to the topic but thes nonsense from Jimmy Sands and JC sorry I meant JoC.
On the wider topic the truth like beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Those who believe that Thatcher killed the Hunger Strikers for revenge or those who listen to the likes of Richard o Rawe, Liam Clarke or Willie Gallagher will always believe what they want.
Mark on the matter of blogger of the year when will Rusty give the mjority hunger strikers families the same respect as he gives to others. Rusty for blogger of the year if he gave all sides a fair run. Oliver Hughes, Donnacha MacNiallias and others have wrote on this topic but because it doesn’t fit in with Rusty’s view it doesn’t get coverage.
Adams is a liar, a cheat and a fraud!
http://kennedycartoons.com
Sure, as long as ther fighting among themselves, ther leaving the rest of us alone, i says. Leave em to it!
[i]ho receives the proceeds of his books but he himself?[/i]
John, who receives the proceeds of your books? How many copies have you managed to sell?
Best,
Lincoln V. Scheuermann
John, who receives the proceeds of your books?
Me, but I didn’t earn the proceeds on the back of the struggle that others engaged in which involved killing others and endangering the immortal souls of those who partook.
I am my own man.
[i]I didn’t earn the proceeds on the back of the struggle that others engaged in which involved killing others and endangering the immortal souls of those who partook.[/i]
No, you just earned your alleged proceeds by describing a man as the Antichrist, based on a numeric alphabet that you designed yourself, as well as other bizarre, archaic superstitions, and unilaterally declaring yourself to be the Son of God.
Anyways, how many copies have you managed to sell and what is the Catholic Church’s position with regard to your work and claims?
Best,
Lincoln V. Scheuermann
There seems to be a problem on this site with posters attacking the bloggers on various topics- if you don’t want to read Rusty’s threads- then don’t!
This was a constant problem when Mark was blogging as well, if anything I think we should have many more threads on Slugger rather than everyone talking about a different topic on the one.
BTW: Mark’s right, Rusty is one of the best bloggers on here, Turgon is very comprehensive and well thought out too.
“…Rusty for blogger of the year if he gave all sides a fair run. Oliver Hughes, Donnacha MacNiallias and others have wrote on this topic but because it doesn’t fit in with Rusty’s view it doesn’t get coverage…”
One of those mentioned above played a prominent role in the destruction of Irish secondary medium education in Derry City.
Independent Irish medium education does not fit in with the party doctrine of total control and power for the self-annointed ones.
Their views on the hunger strikes are similiarly tainted by the party line.
Anyways, how many copies have you managed to sell and what is the Catholic Church’s position with regard to your work and claims?
You need to ask my publisher, Oak Grove Books, and we’re working on the Catholic Church. It took them over fifty years to recognise Knock. At the moment they’re struggling with Medjugorje and give them a few dozen years they’re likely to have at least read my books. But in the end the truth is the truth and Gerry Adams will prove himself to be a disciple of whatever antigod he chooses.
But it would be a mistake to conclude that the Catholic Church is not reviewing the Adams situation as I write and as you read.
[No sock-puppets - edited moderator]
John I think that you’re fantastic. Have you ever thought of joining the priesthood? We really could be doing with more outstanding young men like you in the ranks during these troubling times.
Donnacha MacNiallias and others have wrote on this topic but because it doesn’t fit in with Rusty’s view it doesn’t get coverage.
J Kelly.
Oh Donncha got coverage alright in the Derry Journal and he did a lousy job in that he made up things that were easily torn apart, it was obvious when the plug was pulled on him by the powers that be…Even Martina tried to shame us using the graves of our fallen Volunteers as cover and of course she pulled her horns in when challenged.
The fact is that the Adamsites have no answers because there is only the truth and they don’t know the meaning of the word.
Of course I’m sure that Adams like the rest of us is wondering what damning stories the Dark has left on tape which will be out in book form according to reports to be released on his anniversary by that ‘dissident’ journalist Ed Maloney. So far it is called ‘Voices from beyond the Grave.’
‘Voices from beyond the Grave.’ is a book I’m very much looking forward too!
http://kennedycartoons.com
posted by Kathy C
recently gerry adams recounted an event in a jail that had the IRA prisoners singing a song that lifted their sinking spirits. It read well but it turned out to be a big lie. The song that gerry said was sung was not even written at the time.
Now we have another recounting by adams…. this time about Kieran Doherty who was dying a cruel death by starvation. ..did it occur as gerry stated in his story or is this also lie. Gerry has used up his credibility.
My thoughts and prayers are with the Doherty family.
I really downt undersatnd Republican Psychology on this.
You have a set of core political beliefs that are generally logical and sustainable and totally legitimate – unassailable. So have confidnce in those.
But along the way one of your main parties has crafted around those a series of lies and misrepresentations to justify its position and cement its control of your vote. These have varied over time but have included
1 its about ‘Brits Out’ – now quietly dropped becasue the Brits live here and they are in Government with them
2 the Irish Goverenment is illegitimate – dropped and took up seats in Dail Eireann
3 its about Socialism – no-one wants socialsm now. Its discredited and has been quietly dropped
4 were Nationalists and anti-Europe – whoops, now we are not because voters dont want us to be and jobs are at stake
5 the Hunger Strikers were saints who died becausue of Thatcher’s intransigence
Now, when it seems that the latter myth is falling apart and there is clear evidence building up that Thatcher wasnt that intransigent but that the deals on offer werent put to the men on time, the attitude within the Republican community is total utter denial. A refusal to even contemplate that there may be a different truth and that they were misled.
Why?
This is not an issue that is being pushed by Unionists. They are sharing power with SF and happy (within limits) to see them there in Government. For them the Hunger Strike is history and their only real interst is stopping the shrine at the Maze to those they regard as murderers and child killers
This all comes from within the Republican community itself – sometimes from those who were there and who know. Former comrades who are aghast.
So why are Republicans unwilling to dispassionately look at the evidence? And why do so many on this site just give a knee jerk reaction in support of Sinn Fein
No, you just earned your alleged proceeds by describing a man as the Antichrist, based on a numeric alphabet that you designed yourself, as well as other bizarre, archaic superstitions, and unilaterally declaring yourself to be the Son of God.
The evidence points to Gerry Adams being the Antichrist. I cannot help that. My involvement in this comes from an experience I had of a spiritual nature in Galway in 1986 when I was moved to calculate the name of Gerry Adams at 666, after being aware that Ian Paisley’s name did likewise from earlier.
I didn’t design the alphabet myself (but it is based on the number 6 as it should be). It was demonstrated to me by another student at St Columb’s College, Derry, who’s political affiliations were Alliance but who has since begun to support Sinn Fein, ignorant of the Gerry Adams half of the equation and despite being given a serious kicking by an IRA prisoner out on release after the GFA. He still believes Ian Paisley is the beast (so far as I am aware).
other bizarre, archaic superstitions
For example? What about this one which is really the fulfillment of prophecy.
Gerry Adams fulfilled another prophecy during the run-up to the 2007 Assembly election campaign in the North of Ireland. This involved him requesting the use of Clonard Monastery (Roman Catholic) church in West Belfast for a political meeting discussing his party’s policy. He still believed that armed struggle was a legitimate means of resolving differences.
When Gerry Adams took to the altar of Clonard monastery while his beliefs were in conflict with Christ’s teaching, he was proclaiming himself to be wiser than God and better than Jesus Christ. He was in logic proclaiming himself to be God.
“[The man of lawlessness or the Antichrist] will oppose and will exalt himself over everything that is called God or is worshipped, so that he sets himself up in God’s temple, proclaiming himself to be God.” (2 Thes 2:3-4)
Cont’d
Second of all, due to another pertinent coincidence his name contains “Adam”, the name of the first man, and from a theological point of view, this adds much to the basis of him being the Antichrist. Adam coincidentally means ‘man’ in Hebrew, and the number of the beast is specifically described as “man’s number” (Rev 13:18).
These are extraordinary coincidences and not to be dismissed by any means by any intelligent observer of matters theological.
The apostle Paul wrote: “For as in Adam all die, so in Christ all will be made alive” (1 Cor 15:22). Adam therefore symbolises death, and thus the question must be asked, is there significance to the ‘Adam’ in Gerry Adams’ name? Does Gerry Adams, the effective leader of the IRA’s republican movement, symbolise death?
The descriptions of the beasts in the Book of Revelation are interesting.
‘The inhabitants worshipped the first beast, whose fatal wound had been healed,’ (Rev 13:12). Coincidentally, Gerry Adams was shot and wounded in 1984, but recovered. Afterwards, he became Sinn Fein president and one of the foremost politicians in Northern Ireland. The use of violence for him is a matter of tactics. That is a matter of fact and record. Gerry Adams has not stepped away from violence. He believes in his own words that “there is a time for peace and a time for war”, mocking the Prince of Peace and equating Christ with the Antichrist, good with evil.
The first beast, who is said to be the Antichrist, is prophesied to have “seven heads” (Rev 13:1), which is coincidentally the number of heads on the IRA army council, including Gerry Adams’ allegedly, and ten horns (Rev 13:1), which is coincidentally the number of hunger strikers who eased his way into politics. The seven heads and ten horns symbolise his political power which coincidentally he has got on the back of the IRA campaign and the hunger strikes.
“Who can make war against him?” (Rev 13:7). The IRA has been described as ‘the most sophisticated terrorist organisation in the history of mankind’. Their structure makes it impossible for a conventional army to defeat them.
I hope you’ll conclude my little friend that I am but the messenger when it comes to Gerry Adams, but that I am much more than that in reality.
Cont’d
But it will not be long until it is over for Adams according to my interpretations of Revelation:-
“Interpreting the next verses gives a timescale for the fulfilment of the prophecies. “The seven heads are seven hills on which the woman sits. They are also seven kings,” (Rev 17:9). The seven hills symbolise Rome, built on seven hills, so the author of Revelation is attacking the Roman Empire. The comparable empire in our context and era is the British Empire and the city comparable to Rome is London. So the seven kings come from London.
“Those kings are described as “Five have fallen, one is, and the other has not yet come” (Rev 17:10). Coincidentally during the Troubles, the Troubles being the key timeframe, five London PMs have fallen: Wilson, Heath, Callaghan, Thatcher, and Major. “One is,” or the sixth PM, must refer to Tony Blair under whom much of the changes to the North took place. The other who has not yet come is remarked: “…but when he does come he must remain for a little while” (Rev 17:10). I think that this must refer to Gordon Brown who won’t be expected to be PM for long by this account.
“The fact that Blair is referred to as “one is” demonstrates that the major prophecies occur under his rule while he “is”, and also while the Antichrist “is not” (see above), which happens at the same time. But the whole sequence of verses, ante-ceded with the proviso, “This calls for a mind with wisdom,” (Rev 17: 9), making them the most mysterious verses in the Book of Revelation, also signals that the whole framework will have outworked itself by the time of the seventh king, “who has not yet come, but when he does come he must remain for a little while”.
So when Gordon Brown, the seventh king, stops being PM, which won’t be long according to the prophecies, Ian Paisley and Gerry Adams will be disgraced and in turmoil, or “thrown alive into the fiery lake of burning sulphur” (Rev 19:20). The intriguing question is what happens under Gordon Brown that leads to this outcome.”
So wasn’t I right about Ian Paisley going in turmoil and the subsequent collapse of the DUP vote under Gordon Brown? We have less than a year to wait to find out about Adams.
Cont’d
My claim to be annointed in the eyes of God, which you denounce, is reasonably objective too. And it is based on Derry.
Derry was important to me. It was the New Jerusalem so far as I was concerned. Coincidentally, it had the walled inner city, the most complete set of walls in Europe, and these walls were symbolic of the New Jerusalem’s walls in the Book of Revelation. It is quite a coincidence that Derry has these walls.
Indeed the old Jerusalem had its walls, which the Romans had destroyed only to find that a new empire, based in a different part of the world, and in a different era, had built another beautiful fortress where the Lamb was to reside.
Derry, the place of so much oppression over the last several hundred years, was the place where the 144,000 citizens, who had the name of the Lamb and his father written on their foreheads, were to reside.
“Then I looked and there before me was the Lamb, standing on Mount Zion, and with him 144,000 who had his name and his father’s name written on their foreheads.” (Rev 14:1)
Thus the Lamb was to have a name, and his father was to have a name, and in human terms this name would be significant for the 144,000 who lived in the New Jerusalem.
I interpreted the phrase ‘written on their foreheads’ in a unique manner, but it was probably the only meaningful interpretation. To me, it meant that the name was to be so obvious that no-one could miss it. My name held special significance now that I realised that names were all-important.
I had by coincidence the most famous surname in the history of Ireland, O’Connell, due to the efforts of the Liberator of Irish Catholics, Daniel O’Connell, and it was fitting that my name, the name of the Irish Christ, was to be coincidentally so. It was the most powerful name in the Irish historical sense, immersing the Irish Christ into the midst of Irish history and culture even further.
But the Liberator coincidentally had a son called John O’Connell, and so in a sense I was the son of the Liberator, another way of saying the Son of God, the ultimate liberator.
But my name was even more important in the context of Derry, the New Jerusalem. The walled city of Derry was situated in a peninsula called Inishowen, or in English, the island, as it formerly was, of John. So coincidentally I lived on the island of John.
But the peninsula was situated in the ancient kingdom of Tyrconnell, meaning in Irish, ‘the land of Connell’. So coincidentally I also lived in the land of Connell.
I was John O’Connell, John of the clan Connell, living on ‘the island of John in the land of Connell’, my name and my father’s name ‘written on their foreheads’ (Rev 14:1), or so obvious it couldn’t be missed. It was a monumental coincidence. I was the Lamb of God. I had no doubt about that.
Stop the whaffle and stick to the topic,John.
I would suggest that the moderator should ban John o’ Connell.
I doubt that many read his repetitive posts and he is just spamminy the site.
I believe that he may be turning off other contributers as who wants to read the same thing over and over again.
Stop the whaffle
This is a comprehensive answer to a reasonble question. I hope you’ll understand that it is necessary.
Bit rich coming from you Joxer. You look like a man who has run out of things to say. Rusty seems to have got the better of you lot. Not that I care one way or the other.
With John this site is becoming like Castle Junction in Belfast on a Saturday morning circa 1972.
All we need now is a set of sandwich boards with Bible verses on them and someone with a stall selling Unionist pamphlets and copies of ‘I was born under a Union Jack’ while an ‘Ulster’ Wolfhound looks balefully on.
God that dates me!
I think that Rusty Nail has actually ran out of things to say.He regurgitates the same conspiracy theory on a weekly basis that is primarily driven by his detestation of Adams (fair enough) and plenty of wishful thinking. However he has no proof to prove his argument.
Post#2 nicely sends up the paucity of his case. However ‘Rusty ‘ continues to peddle his myths against the clear wishes of the families of the dead men causing the families great angst and hurt.
Joxer, it would be nice if you actually had an original thought or opinion.
Spout the party line over and over try thinking for yourself, if the party allow that?
“Post#2 nicely sends up the paucity of his case. However ‘Rusty ’ continues to peddle his myths against the clear wishes of the families of the dead men causing the families great angst and hurt.” the joxer
Post 2 simply serves to totally evade the issue and I seriously doubt that Rusty nail has any intention of hurting the families of the hunger strikers. It seems to me that rusty nail’s goal is to focus a light on all events surrounding that terrible time in our history, a time I remember only too well.
“causing the families great angst and hurt”
while I dont wish them any harm, frankly that this as nothing compared to the angst and hurt their dear departed caused while they were on this planet and if the allegations are true then they too have been cruelly hoaxed and exploited for many years. But that could never have happened. No. Surely not. No-one could have been that cynical
Following the posts “Rusty” stays focused on the issue of what did or may have happen in 1981.
Why Sinn Fein do not address the issue in public one has to wonder what they are hiding.
Joxer, try reading the articles with the blinkers off.
“But the peninsula was situated in the ancient kingdom of Tyrconnell”
Hate to go againist a God but of course Inishowen is not in Tyrconnell.
Joxer, looks to me as if Rusty is producing fresh ways of looking at this all the time. Stuff out there for years now can be reread in a new light. There is nothing wrong with that. The response is what puzzles me. Why is there nothing other than ‘shut up’? It would be a sad day for any understanding when families could have a veto. This all sounds like ‘shut up and accept the one true version.’
‘Following the posts “Rusty” stays focused on the issue of what did or may have happen in 1981′
You are right, ASF. Rusty does not know what happened as he has no proof for his version of events. For those of you with the blinkers off, where is Rusty’s evidence to substantiate his suspicions?
Put up or shut up.
Joxter
“Put up or Shut up”
A very SF attitude.
Just who do you think you are to tell us what we can or cannot think or say or listen to? And why are you so defensive?
GGN
Your answer:-
http://www.jenforum.com/daugherty/messages/2686.html
Hate to go againist a God but of course Inishowen is not in Tyrconnell.
The usual cry is that Derry’s not in Inishowen or that Derry is not in Tyrconnell.
But the fact is that in modern boundaries Derry is outside Tyrconnell and Inishowen. Derry lies on the ancient boundary of both Tyrconnell and Inishowen. Where I live in the city is traditionally regarded as Inishowen, and the walls lie in the old Tyrconnell.
So the city is split between the ancient borders of Tyrconnell and Inishowen and I’ve simply simplified it.
‘Just who do you think you are to tell us what we can or cannot think or say or listen to? And why are you so defensive?’
Keep taking the Paranoid Pills, Cynic.