“make no mistake there is nervousness within the Sinn Fein ranks.”
On his blog, UTV’s Ken Reid tells us that on Thursday the Northern Ireland Executive will probably discuss the policing and justice legislation they saw at the last meeting. And, despite Sinn Féin’s Martin McGuinness trying to suggest that he might turn down whatever offer Gordon Brown makes in September – which does look likely to be a key time – Ken cautions
It all seems to be going smoothly but make no mistake there is nervousness within the Sinn Fein ranks. If the devolution does not take place by the end of the year there are all the necessary ingredients for a full scale crisis.
Well, they might need another distraction by then.. Update As Mark Devenport reports – “The latest moves may answer the question about where justice powers will be wielded from, but we still do not know when it will happen.” Whilst from the NI Secretary of State – “It is for the local politicians to decide when the time is right to do that, but the completion of devolution would be the best signal to send out to those opposed to democracy and stability in Northern Ireland.” If those parties agree that “the time is right”. But Sinn Féin deliberately destabilising the NI Executive for their own party political reasons, again, would send out what message? Adds BBC report after the NI Executive meeting.
About time we had another full scale crisis. Remind me what the last one was about?
He’s quite right – if the Englezes dont pay up as required and the DUP dont play ball as agreed it will be curtains for Stormo.
In that scenario they will be nervous times for everyone – particulalry with a right-wing Engleze government waiting in the wings, perhaps trying to wriggle on the hook of the GFA whilst making funny pre-1998 pro-Union noises and all being played out with the background of 3-way-war within Unionism – we may then need the quareone Hilary to kick a few Unionist/Tory feckers up the arse.
Another thread portending the imminent demise of Sinn Fein
Weeee how many is that this month and how does it compare to July 2006
Stormont will not last the course. NI cannot be governed as it is presently constituted. The border ensures and encourages the cancer of sectarianism to thrive. Joint sovereignty is the way forward for the next 20 years imo, with gradual harmonisation and eventual unification with the Republic.
Quagmire
The border ensures and encourages the cancer of sectarianism to thrive.
NOTHING to do with segregated education then?
“NOTHING to do with segregated education then?”
Posted by Driftwood on Jul 29, 2009 @ 07:20 PM
The fact that education, amongst other things, in the north is segregated derives from that moment in history when one part of Ireland was forceably segregated from the other by the imposition of an arbitrary border. The best thing to do in order to break down barriers here in the north is to start with the one that lies south of Newry and west of Derry. The border promotes the idea of themmuns vs us both between here and the rest of Ireland and indeed within the 6 county area itself. The sooner it is gone the better for everyone imo. I’m all for integrated education by the way, but it will never really take hold whilst there are two waring tribes battling it out in such a confined space. Stormont, with all its vetos and stagnation, and indeed partition itself for that matter only serve to encourage sectarianism and hatred.
like, who the fuck cares anymore?
Quagmire,
I for one want only friendly relations with our neighbour, the Irish Republic. Nothing more.
I have little time for what passes for Government at Stormont too. That body has done little or nothing with what it is already charged, so who in his right mind should want it to be given even more responsibility while it cannot cope with the responsibilities it has at present?
My grandparents had the right idea: they were born in what is now the South. Rather than stay and cause trouble for the new state, they moved north in the early twenties to where they could still live and be at home in the UK.
A little reciprocity might not have gone/go amiss.
Thanks for that sage advice Doreen, I’m quitting my job in the morning, selling the house and moving down to my own country, if not my county, south of the border. No more will this pesky Fenian make trouble for your fine state. Slán agat.
Quagmire
I have no love for the Toytown council at Stormont. Much prefer Westminster where stuff actually gets done.
Why not join up our thinking and re-integrate Southern Ireland into the United Kingdom.
De facto it practically is anyway.
We’ll even allow RTE to keep its football coverage, if only cos Dunphy is better craic than Alan Hansen.
‘break down barriers here in the north … start with the one that lies south of Newry and west of Derry.’
So if we paint the line at the side of the road a different colour, that’s it sorted. That’s the final barrier, right?
Paul
3.Another thread portending the imminent demise of Sinn Fein
Paranoid and inaccurate nonsense. But their demise is imminent.
Driftwood,
its not often we have the misfortune to agree with each other – but I am fully with you on integrated eduaction – there is often quite a bit of sidestepping by Nationalists on this one.
Sammy
It’ll take time but unfortunately Education has been devolved to Trumpton, where it has become a bunfight. That said, no direct rule minister ever had the balls to deal with it.
Actually, growing secularisation and direct action by schools with falling numbers/demographics may get us there, if only politicians would leave them alone.
BRA is a prime example of leading the way.
You have hit the pinacle of troll when a head case calls you paranoid
Oddly enough, Brian, the last apparent crisis was when Sinn Féin suddenly felt the need to cover their embarrassment at missing the May 2008 deadline for devolving policing and justice powers that they had promised their own activists they had secured at St Andrews.
Sammy Mac remembers it well.
I don’t believe that ‘Catholic’ schools per se are the cause of division but I certainly welcome the decreasing influence that the Church has in the actual implementation of education including Catholic clergy principals etc. There is nothing wrong with a school having a certain ethos as that is surely democracy but education must be left in the hands of ordinary teachers and heads using a national curriculum.
As for Sinn Fein getting angry, what did they expect? The Republican movement bought into a devolved Unionist majority Stormont and the DUP are calling all the shots. It’s not rocket science. I mean many right wing Unionist fundamentalists were not just going to cast off their apartheid sectarian mindset overnight. Robinson is looking over his shoulder all the time at Allister and there is no way he is going to buy into Sinn Fein’s timetable on Policing & Justice. Anyway what are Sinn Fein going to do, take their ball home? The guns are gone and the Republican movement has nothing left to rattle or scaremonger with anymore. The DUP knows that as do both governments and moves on P & J will now be dictated by a nervous Robinson who will be given as as long as he likes by London & Dublin. Sinn Fein has copperfastened partition ad infinitum and while Unionists hold a majority in the North Britain, the Republic and probably the US will go along with that. It’s definately a case of shutting the barn door after the horse has bolted for the Shinners. Crisis?? That’s a laugh, while Sinn Fein are receiving their Stormont salaries and have the whiff of ministerial power they won’t rock the boat. They gave up their principles and beliefs a long long time ago and that’s why so many of their members are leaving. Anyway the world has more serious things to worry about with the Middle East and economics.
Oh Dear Pete not the good old DUP revionisnism again.
SF simply puts the brakes on Stormo until last November the DUP agreed to meet their obligations and get the process under way*. If they play funny buggers again then Stormo comes to a halt again. Simples.
*The DUP were not only under pressure from SF fecking up Stormo but also from the Englezes who suggested their tardiness was assisting the republican dissers – remember the post when you lost the run of yourself and changed Woodward’s actual words to suit your own view of the world?
Sigh…I already miss McGregor.
IRIA,
I agree – with only Mick F. and Pete B. writing daily threads about the crisis in SF we desperately need MCG doing exactly the same.
Sorry, Brian.
Apparently Sammy Mac doesn’t remember it well after all.
Still making things up I see, Sammy.
I agree – with only Mick F. and Pete B. writing daily threads about the crisis in SF we desperately need MCG doing exactly the same.
Seconded.
Pete,
lets test our memory of the period – do you remember Robbo’s threat – before he agreed to get matters under way – of serious consequences?
They turned out to be about as serious as your suggestion at the time that the DUP were no pressure from the Englezes to move Police and Justice along because they had their not-in-a-political-liftime-funny-triple-locks? lol
pete,
whilst you’re correct to point out that the devolution of P&J is a matter for Stormont; you can’t seriously be trying to undermine sammy’s assertation, that every time the matter comes up in Westminister HMG makes it crystal clear they seek the implementation of P&J as soon as possible.
You may wish to argue just exactly how much influence NIO and HMG have on the matter, however they’re certainly on SF’s side of the arguement, that is uncontestable no/yes ?
It was Sammy: SF simply puts the brakes on Stormo until last November the DUP agreed to meet their obligations and get the process under way*
So, have you got another deadline for devolution yet?
It was Sammy: If they play funny buggers again then Stormo comes to a halt again. Simples.
So; if what SF did last time doesn’t work, they will do the same again hoping for a different result?
percy
Despite Sammy’s fantasies about what I have, or have not said, this is, and has been, the government’s position throughout.
What Shaun doesn’t address there is what signal was being sent by Sinn Féin’s deliberate destabilising of the Executive after missing their own mis-promised deadline – the part Sammy ignores.
Paul
15.You have hit the pinacle of troll when a head case calls you paranoid
More inaccuracies. Clearly you’re a Sinn Fein supporter. You can tell by the lack of empathy for other human beings.
God/John: do you mean to say that 126,184 people in the 6 counties just little under two months ago demonstrated their collective lack of empathy for other human beings?
Crrrrrrrrrrrraaaaaaaaaaaaazzzzzzzzzzzzyyyyyyyy!
“I agree – with only Mick F. and Pete B. writing daily threads about the crisis in SF we desperately need MCG doing exactly the same thing”
True, maybe taking it from a slightly different viewpoint is what I was thinking, but touche.
sure pete, and the SoS is very careful not to apportion blame to either SF or the DUP, as they always are.
Shaun Woodward wants the parties to proceed so as to isolate the hardliners in RIRA and TUV, who both oppose Stormont, and are, in HMG eyes complete “bounders” !
Pete,
“What Shaun doesn’t address there is what signal was being sent by Sinn Féin’s deliberate destabilising of the Executive after missing their own mis-promised deadline – the part Sammy ignores.”
Top stuff – we are discussing what the Engleze government’s attitude is and you quote them and then argue that THEY have got it wrong – and you have the fecking to cheek to accuse me of making things up. lol (Echoes of your previous changing of Shaun’s speech)
The DUP have a legal requirement to move this process along as set out in the STA and although they can slow it down they are under pressure from the Englezes (something admitted by Rev Ian, Deputy Dodsy and Robbo) to deliver and correctly blamed by the Englezes for boosting the republican dissers by their tardiness.
And now it seems the DUP have now made their own difficult situation worse by delaying the transfer until the TUV are a real threat to them and this from a party who were crowing, as were many Sluggeronians, that they had out-negotiated SF.
An interesting thing this devolution of P&J, the loopy Alliance gets control of civic policing…IE letting hoods run amok and drug dealers deal to their heart’s content all for a few bits of information supplied to the political police force controlled by MI5 and Westminster.
Ah well if it keeps The Deputy Co-joint happy and it keeps those who look to him for their happiness happy, everyone will be happy in PSF including Gerry what-ever airspace he finds himself in.
Talking about Gerry…What happens when he runs out of Irish Diaspora and they haven’t found out how to do it?
Sammy
You keep making claims about statements I’ve made and/or positions I’ve argued.
Care to back any of those claims up with quotes and links to the relevant posts?
SMcC
In denial, are we?
A member of the IRSP is now whinging about “hoods” and “drug dealers”. Brilliant stuff.
And how did the IRSP the last time they faced the electorate, Thomas?
P.S. How’s the IP tracing going?
Dixie, I wouldn’t 2nd guess your experience for a moment, but isn’t getting a bit wasted on the waccy-baccy preferable to slaughter and the resumption of old hatreds.
Give peace a chance, and do a mural with Uncle Ruari smoking a gangsta style spliff.
Inspiring?
Pete,
are you telling me you dont remember changing the statement by Shaun W. when he said that the delaying of the transfer of Police was playing into the hands of the republican dissers?
Tis in the archives to be sure.
“perhaps trying to wriggle on the hook of the GFA ”
….errr why when their party virtually wrote the gameplan for it?
Above all, bluntly, why would they give a stuff?
“the imposition of an arbitrary border”
…. there was a Treaty, an agreement and people voted for thsoe who signed it…….
It was only imposed on those who lost the argument
Sammy
Then produce the evidence to show exactly how duplicitous you’re suggesting I’ve been.
Assuming you can.
cynic,
“those who were not for peace must take full responsibility for the war that would immediately follow refusal by any Delegate to sign the Articles of Agreement.”-George.
Argument of force?
God/John, you state that one can determine a PSF supporter by their “lack of empathy for other human beings.”
Does merely apply to their senior leadership or does it extend further to the party’s activists and voters which numbered more than 330,000 throughout the island at the last election?
black kettle…
Ah so the shinners have me in the IRSP now do they? Well if you think that you can pass it on to the PSNI and maybe they’ll stop me taking my kids to school and search me?
Old Gregory Campbell has turned yous into fine guard dogs indeed and I can’t wait to see what happens when Peter lets Marty have P&J I have visions of that scene in Invasion of the Body Snatchers with all the squealing and pointing.
percy…
I don’t want a resumption of old hatreds, where have I ever said that? Sure it achieved nothing but more corrupt politicians and loads of community workers who do very little community work.
Yes, Dixie, because all of your detractors must be PSF touts. The entire proletariat citizenry do dearly love the IRSP/INLA with all their hearts!
black kettle…”Yes, Dixie, because all of your detractors must be PSF touts. The entire proletariat citizenry do dearly love the IRSP/INLA with all their hearts!”
…And all their various names!!
It’s fantasic to see those stand-up comedy workshops ye boys put on for yourselves inside the cages coming to good use all those years later!
Votáil IRSP
Now now Pete stop wriggling and answer the simple question.
Do you remember Shaun Woodward’s speech in which he said that failure to move on the transfer of Police was damaging the peace process which you published and put red lines through the bits you didnt agree with?
Yes or No?
Sammy
Then produce the evidence to show exactly how duplicitous you’re suggesting I’ve been.
Go on, then.
You’re the one making the claims.
The Peace Process Sammy, I remember the original one in the 70s. I think Mairead Corrigan starred in that one if I remember right?
I was just wondering, the unemployed are forced to fight over jobs, that aren’t out there and if they are they are menial, or else they lose their benefits. And what is Marty’s main concern? Getting civic policing devolved from Westminster so he at least can have some smidgen of achievement and his followers can rejoice at this.
Thank God we have the likes of Martina to tell us how badly off we are and that something has to be done about it…Now the SDLP could never do that so convincingly while making sure we have Irish policemen politically policing us.
Anyone else miss MMC?