Paisley and Yamato
The greatest battleship ever built was the Japanese Yamato. She was the largest, had the largest guns and was the most heavily armoured. She was sent on a suicide mission (called operation Ten-Go) to attack the Americans on Okinawa in April 1945. However, she was repeatedly attacked by American carrier borne aircraft and over a period of two hours she was sunk by numerous torpedo and bomb hits. It was the inevitable end of the finest example of a once overwhelmingly powerful military machine which technology had rendered obsolete.
It appears that Dr. Paisley may feel that he has at least one election left in him: both the BBC and the News Letter are carrying the story that Dr. Paisley is thinking of running again for North Antrim in the next Westminster elections. Paisley earlier suggested that Jim Allister would be “very welcome to come and get a hiding in North Antrim.” Jim Allister seems unmoved stating
“I look forward to the verdict of the people of North Antrim on the chuckle routine and the record of their absentee Westminster representative.”
The question is whether Paisley has one more victory left in him or is he fated like the Yamato to be perused to destruction, military technology having passed the battleship by.
Turgon,
Why are you comparing Paisley to man-o-war? For shame!
But why on earth is Paisley running again? I wouldn’t have thought he needed the money. But greed can strike even the best of us I suppose.
Turgon
how can you be watched in to destruction
The biggest difference being that the Yamato had alternate uses – shore bombardment, recycled for razor blades, etc.
What other use does Dr. Rev. No have?
Dread Cthulhu,
“What other use does Dr. Rev. No have?”
He can cause everybody in his vicinity to appear sensible, tolerant and well-adjusted.
An incerdible scenario where Ian Snr would be saying “Yes” in the fight with Jimbo on the single issue of whether Unionism should be pragmatic in their battle with Nationalism and let SF stay in government.
Turgon, what do you reckon – does Sammy Wilson bending over backwards to Sinn Fein’s equality agenda not tell us the real truth about so-called ‘DUP-rule’ at Stormont? Unionists have to wonder who is actually getting the ‘kicking’ that the big man is promising Allister. See Bel Tel (Sinn Fein are blamed for planning blockage” – 17 June 2009):
On the Planning Reform document being blocked for public consultation by SF, Sammy Wilson is quoted:
“This document has been more equality proofed than similar documents put forward by any minister including Sinn Fein’s ministers — yet they still object. I have bent over backwards by getting more work done on equality issues to a level that no other similar document has been subjected to in order to advance the issue.”
Turgon
When Ian Paisley Snr actually submits his nomination papers I’ll regard it as being worthy of serious consideration.
Until then it’s just more of the propaganda battle.
I suspect the lure of being Father of the House will just be too much for Paisley to resist .. just as the chance to be First Minister was too much to resist…..oh, and freebies and expenses, if he can still get them.
A friend phoned me earlier and said TV news carried a DUP report which said Dr.NoBody will NOT be standing in N.Antrim.
Anyone else heard this?
He can’t be the Father of the House because he resigned his seat in 1985, unless he stays another 20 years!
Sounds a bit like Paisley is being pressured into talking about this by Robinson who perhaps believes that he can deliver a death blow to Jim Allister by beating him in his home ground.
Trouble is, the man’s just too old. While he was First Minister he was very evidently old and frail and just about had the energy to put in a couple of hours per day. I can’t imagine this has improved.
I still got a weird feeling of pleasure, which somehow seems wrong, thinking about the sparkle he probably had in his eye when he talked about delivering a hiding to Allister.
Turgon, what a nice little club of Paisley-bashers you have managed to gather up. Y’all should form a society!
Colleagues! Colleagues!!
I think aim of Jim-Ulster-Allister and the Phantom Dr T will be aiming for is some like the effect that IPsnr delivered to O’Neill in 1969.
Stormont Constituency Banside Feb 1969
Ulster Unionist Terence O’Neill 7,745
Protestant Unionist Ian Paisley 6,331
This was as IPsnr said ‘a good vote’ but it did not deliver the coup de gras – that was the job of the UVF which let off a series of bombs which were blamed on the IRA.
After that it was all over for O’Neill
Paisley is more like HMS Belfast now, a defunct, obsolete,paltry tourist anomaly. I hope he stands and defeat sends him to his grave a hopeless loser like all little Adolfs.
Different Drummer
(Captain)Terence O Neill was a respected Guardsman who earned a great reputation among his men in the battle for Normandy.- even brought his own chickens.
Paisley never fought a battle in his life, the Julius Streicher of Irish politics, and Robbo his colourless ‘Von’ Ribbentrop.
Jim Allister would be clever enough to be Albert Speer, if you really want to carry the anology.
Sure you used enough dynamite their butch….
If only you knew!! If Only You Knew!!
Drifter – Analogizing – What We Must Do
I’d say if you used the word in Jim-Ulster-Allister’s presence he would give a rather devilishly rye smile. Why because he would like my Mr JOC – CO think you were some kind of academic **** (redacted in line with the new public discourse rules).
I think we are seeing the start of the disintegration of the DUP, as the Paisleys and others, smarting from IPS’s demise, take on the Robinson mafia .
It was obvious there was a problem when the DUP in Ballymena picketed Cameron, IPJ instigated, on the same day Robinson was making overtures towards Cameron.
Those now left voting for the DUP are mainly ex UUP voters from about 1997 as the TUV have mopped up most of the DUP from that era, so just how loyal are they to the party. It is also intersting to see how many DUP people in the Assembly (elected and support teams)have a background in the UUP.
It seems that Robinson’s grip has been prised off the tiller as Forster and Wilson refuse to listen and no one of any stature would run for the EU. Those who wield the sword should beware as it may be turned on them as the seemingly impregnable ramparts have started to crumble and Robinson starts to look, as they say, ‘in office but not in power’.
A week is truly a long time in politics and nearly a year to the next election is an eternity.
Thanks for that Emanonon
Yes as you imply it’s not about the recent deffections to the TUV’s
it is about how the rest will follow soon enough.
Thanks for that Emanonon
Yes as you imply it’s not about the recent deffections to the TUV’s
it is about how the rest will follow soon enough.
Ian Paisley is not a Dr! This is a PR trick as exposed by a German academic in the Belfast Telegraph years ago. At most it is an honorary degree awarded to him by a Dixie State (South Carolina etc) University that condoned racial segregation. Being of no academic or legal worth in the EU it is in fact false representation.
Yeah but we still want to say ‘Doctor Paisley’, cause we’re taking the piss. Bob Jones Uni was it not something like that? I hope he has lost the sense that he may once have had to know that Big Jim would beat him bad, (and I point out I’m a Republican here, just so people don’t think I support Big Jim masell). He does come across sharp and you can tell he’s confident and ready to fight.
Having said that, Ian Junior would have been more amusing for me. I detest the man, seeing him getting ripped to shreds on the telly would have been very enjoyable for me.
Paisley is more like HMS Belfast now, a defunct, obsolete,paltry tourist anomaly. I hope he stands and defeat sends him to his grave a hopeless loser like all little Adolfs.
We could moor him in the Thames and let him rust away quietly.
It rings a bell but i think the university is the same uni that bestowed the MP who shared a platform with King Rat in Portadown and who buys furniture or his second home from the public purse. Hit name is on tip of toungue but he is the singing Dr (sic).
If we’re continuing the naval analogy I would suggest that the good Reverend is more comparable to the HMS Hermes.
Aging, with a long career, distinguished and battle hardened. In fact Hermes was due to be decommissioned before the Falklands War, was brought back into service and performed admirably.
Oh and just so Zoon Poltikon knows for next time, more Irish fought on the Confederate ‘Dixie’ side than on the Union side by about 3 to 1…
Probably for the first time in a trillion years the nationalist vote in North Antrim might have some significance.Imagine Ian og asking nationalists for their vote to keep Allister out.
Brubaker,
Oh and just so Zoon Poltikon knows for next time, more Irish fought on the Confederate ‘Dixie’ side than on the Union side by about 3 to 1…
Actually, just so you know for the next time, that is incorrect. It was around 150,000 fighting on the Union side and 40,000 on the Confederate side.
Big Ian running again reminds me more of the comedy series Only Fools and Horses.
It ran for years / he ran for years
The Trotters went through many tough times / he went through many unpopular tough times
Many thought things would never change for the Trotters / many thought he would never change
At the end of the series things worked out for the Trotters / At the end of his career things worked out for him – leader of NI, former enemies chuckling together for the greater good, momentous handshakes, respect for doing good.
But then they decided to ruin the series by doing one more episode with the Trotters back in the flat skint again, back where they began / and then he decides to go back to north antrim and run as an MP when hes waaaaay past it????
best to enjoy his retirement i think.
eranu,
Nice analogy there!
Me, I’m thinking of “Dr” Ian Paisley and “Dr” Gillian McKeith.
* Paisley got his “doctorate” from an unaccredited American university; so did McKeith
* Paisley preaches all sorts of irrationality and unscientific nonsense; so does McKeith
* Paisley made a small fortune from his “work”; so did McKeith
* Paisley likes to engage in shit-stirring; so does McKeith
* Paisley wears crotchless red knickers; so does McKeith.
OK, maybe I made that last one up :^)
So Turgon in this analogy Allister is modern and forward looking, while Paisley is mired in the past?
Sorry Zoon Poltikon would you be referring to the honey toned Rev. Willie McCrea by any chance? Another kind hearted man of the cloth.
yis are a depressing bunch
Yes Neil that’s the guy!
And when I said …Dixie State… I was doing so for a geographic reference only.
brubaker ,
‘ more Irish fought on the Confederate ‘Dixie’ side than on the Union side by about 3 to 1′
According to the records of civil war enlistment to take just one example those with the common surname Murphy -some 2,500 fought for the South and some 8,500 for the North . The same pattern is seen with many of those sporting ‘irish names ‘ . If you are including the Scotch Irish as Irish then the numbers might have been even on both sides. Scotch Irish probably fought for the Confederacy as opposed to Union forces in the ratio of 3 to 1 . Mainly because of the pattern of settlement with the Scots Irish mostly settled in the poorer more agricultural southern states .
Facts not myths please !
bemused ,
‘in this analogy Allister is modern and forward looking, while Paisley is mired in the past? ‘
Turgon’s analogy is tripe . Allister is trying to fight a new war using ‘old weapons’ . Paisley in a sense did the same during his long climb to pole position in NI politics -we forget it did take him almost 40 years to get from back street rabble rouser to FM and Paisley had a great deal more political skill, nous and ‘money’ than Allister . Paisley also had the sense to acceot that the ‘old weapon’ of no power sharing with the SDLP or SF was never going to restore local self government to NI.
Allister is in the same boat that Paisley once captained . That boat is at the bottom of the Irish sea and even if Allister manages to raise the boat once again to the surface it will not be long before it goes the way of the Yamamoto !
Turgon is allowing his abhorrence of SF/DUP etc to cloud his political thinking.
Turgon,
Maybe The Fighting Temeraire is a better naval analogy with the old ship being recalcitrant unionism.
Greenflag,
Agreed. In terms of immigrant(straight off the boat) Irish, the North’s ranks were clearly far fuller than the South’s (150,000/30,000 iirc). However, the South did recruit many immigrants who had come through New Orleans and Charleston as opposed to New York and Boston. In terms of second and third generation Irish the numbers are harder to read because of the huge Scots-Irish population in the South but units like the 10th Louisiana, 24th Georgia, and 8th Alabama were regarded as Irish regiments and actually faced the union Irish brigade in several battles.
villager: No-one seems 100% certain about the rules on the Father of the House in this area. There are some past Fathers who successfully fought mid term by-elections in their career (under the old ministerial rule) so it’s possible Paisley still qualifies, though as Sir Peter Tapsell (continuous since 1966) plans to keep on going until he dies whilst several of the 1970 intake are restanding (and I think in 1970 MPs were sworn in in alphabetical order – this rule meant Bernard Braine not Edward Heath was Father in 1987-1992) it’s possible Paisley will have to wait some time to reach the top.
Zoon Poltikon: Paisley has two “doctorates” – one from the American Pioneer Theological Seminary, an unaccredited diploma mill that was subsequently shut down, and an honorary one from Bob Jones University (say whatever else you may about it but BJU is not a diploma mill). A *lot* of Protestant clergymen use the title “Dr” with about as strong a basis for doing so. The Germans have laws restricting the use of the title to those conferred it from accredited institutions but this idea hasn’t caught on much elsewhere.
Paisley is more like the Nomadic. Old, useless, a shadow of his former self and barely still floating!! He would love to have thousands of pounds but can no longer get it as his expenses and office claims have been exposed. One would expect a ‘Christian’ Minister to be above such rackets! Bring on North Antrim. Victory for Allister!
Paisley’s academic qualifications are not acceptable in Irish or British universities.
Do we know anything of the rigour of his academic research, the number of years he studied full-time, and the details of his doctoral thesis? And what is the status of a sectarian college such as the Bob Jones university in US college rankings?
I never thought he deserved the esteemed title of doctor.
The gallant sailors and marines of Yamato maru went to their heroic deaths against rapacious invaders. (The Yanks raped all round them in Okinawa).
Paisley, by contrast, may be regarded as a war criminal. He and his party should face the noose, not the electorate.
Paisley does not deserve his exalted title. It is not recognised in any Irish or European academic institution.
What are the details of his doctoral thesis, the evidence of academic rigour required for a Ph.D, and the number of years spent in pursuit of this highly esteemed qualification? And what is the status of the Bob Jones college in the US College rankings?
Cymru Ffydd: What are the details of his doctoral thesis, the evidence of academic rigour…
Irrelevant for an Honorary Doctorate: George Bush and Kermit the frog have been awarded Honorary Doctorates by US universities.
Does it matter whether or not an 83 year old is a Doctor or not. I think we all know who IPS is and what he has done in the past, the Dr. title will not make one vote more or less.
What matters is whether or not the DUP is imploding as the various factions seek to get the upper hand or if it can rebuild itself into something meaningful.
As the UUP found once the slide starts it can be hard to reverse and takes a long time, in their case it took the Conservatives to revitalise them and get them back in the game. Who can the DUP find?
emanonon
“Does it matter whether or not an 83 year old is a Doctor or not.”
I daresay it matters to people like me who spend years slogging away with little pay to achieve the same title.
emanonon,
“As the UUP found once the slide starts it can be hard to reverse and takes a long time, in their case it took the Conservatives to revitalise them and get them back in the game. Who can the DUP find?”
If you call getting your vote from 15% to 17% revitalisation then good luck to you.
WR
I think any reversal of a such rapid decline is a revitalisation, it may have some way to go but up is up and not down like others.
Paisley and Muhammad Ali always sort of reminded me of one another. The analogy has become poignantly starker.
Its all good and free PR for the TUV. Or conversely Paisley can’t lose – if he wins he can say he still have the support of the people, if he looses he can claim his God took pity on him and allowed him to rest or whatever mumbojumbo he cares to explain it away.
driftwood msg 14. very true. i couldn’t believe it last night on the alleged debate programme ‘let’s give in to DUP blackmail’. ian [Own Goal]paisley sat smugly in the knowledge that the blackmail of the bbc producers had worked, and the elephant in the room[the euro election debacle], was ignored for a whole hour.
what credibility has carruthers and the bbc producers got left after this spineless travesty.
on the re-entry of paisley snr, he had little option but to stand against sunny jim, as he couldn’t be seen to run away from allister. Still, it shows the contempt he has for the rest of the party ‘big hitters’ that he didn’t see any of them as winning against his nemesis on his right. pathetic is it not?
Daniel,
it’s the embarrasment of the defeat of his son he’s keen to avoid. Paisley Senior might, just might carry enough of his old voters with him. Paisley Jr.? No chance, most normal folk on the ground don’t care for him. He was always going to have to live in his da’s shadow, and that’s what it will boil down to.
Couple Junior’s odious nature and unlikeability, his distinct lack of charisma and the fact that in Jim Allister the competition will be stiff, the simple truth is in Ian Senior’s absence Ian Junior would a) run and b) lose. Seems to me the only option might be sending in Big Ian in the hope that the pavlovian instinct kicks in when folks are in the voting booth.
I don’t reckon any of the Paisley’s would be too concerned about money or fleecing expenses. They made their money back in the days when working class Unionism still thought Big Ian was working for their benefit instead of his own and that of his family.