McDaid killing: Shadow of Robert Hamill murder looms ever larger with explosive new claims
The Sunday World’s front page today carries allegations that a serving PSNI officer goaded loyalists about the presence of Irish Tricolours in the nationalist Heights area of Coleraine ahead of the violent loyalist attack which killed one catholic man, Kevin McDaid, and has left another fighting for his life.
The alleged text message read: THE TRICOLOURS ARE STILL UP IN THE TOWN- ARE YIS REAL MEN OR WHAT?
The paper further alleges that PSNI officers stood chatting with loyalists in the Scotts Bar area prior to the attack, with some PSNI officers goading the loyalists about the presence of tricolours.
Prior to these revelations, the PSNI were already in the dock for their handling of this killing. These new claims will not only serve to heap more pressure on the PSNI, it will also strengthen the dissident republican narrative that the PSNI remain a deeply partisan, sectarian force and immediately recall the actions of RUC officers during and in the aftermath of the murder of Robert Hamill in Portadown.
In this regard, the role of nationalist politicians in the coming period will be crucial. It will be extremely important for them to provide strong leadership in holding the PSNI to account at the highest level for the persistence of what appears to be a pervasive sectarian mentality within the police service at a local level within Coleraine.
I have already listed a number of questions which must be addressed by the Police Ombudsman in relation to this killing in a previous thread. Naturally, with these allegations there are a number of new questions which instantly arise regarding the name and rank of the PSNI officer concerned, but also his role in events on the day. Furthermore, the revelations also confirm suspicions raised about why the PSNI did not simply inform loyalists threatening violence on a predominantly nationalist community due to the presence of a couple of flags that they would not be permitted to invade the area and inflict such violence and could be arrested for making threats with such implications: clearly, a number of the PSNI officers shared the same objective as the murderous loyalists.
PL
UMMM because it wasn’t a mob that killed the soldiers just a couple of psychotic fellow travelers
Doctor Who,
What in god’s name is a “paralax view”?
Posted by Big Maggie on Jun 01, 2009 @ 10:45 AM
It’s from series 4, episode 12.
“And no similar sectarian flags like Celtic or the tricolour either.”
Oh please, are Protestants barred from becoming head of state of the ROI? No they are not.
Are Catholice barred from becoming head of stae of the UK? Yes they are …
Where does the sectarianism lie?
the tone of these messgages is very worrying. never mind the elections. seems to me – from what you lot been saying – this ain’t over yet.
take a moment to remember what we all did to each other
..
now take another moment
is that what we want?
by this blog, I recon that’s what’s coming
The Raven, lol good one, although do you mean series 4 episode 12 of the classic series or the Russel T Davies re-working.
Big Maggie, the following is a good definition of a “parallax view”, although after that outburst on the previous page I suspect you´ve been red carded and hence will miss the explanation.
A parallax view is a viewpoint from which you can observe and study something or somebody from a new angle, thus gaining insights unavailable before.
nevermind that wanker the dubliner, he’s just a fine gael wind up merchant who hates northern nationalists with a passion! every one of his posts has the ring of kevin my-arse about it.
[i]
How about you act your mental age pl and F**K O*F
you c**k s***r [/i]
Touch a nerve?
Chris,
Those who can’t answer my arguments are trying to impersonate me again—as if a well-brought up woman like my would use foul language when I have reason at my disposal.
Please delete and/or block the wretch’s IP.
Thank you.
Maggie, could you answer the points I raised?
I believe certain people are confusing “parallax” with “parallel”.
It’s a common misconception.
pl,
Remind me, what points did you raise?
“Maggie, you are a total embarrassment. Why do you continue on with the “Unionist mob” stuff? Wouldn’t offend you if people said that a Nationalist mob killed those soldiers and Masserene? Apart from that, you are letting people who are using horrible, diversionary tactics to avoid discussing the matter completely off the hook. In every thread about the murder of Mr McDaid, you’ve started this futile and ignorant argument. Act your age. “
pl,
Ah, those points. I didn’t think you wanted an answer.
How do you expect me to answer: “Maggie, you are a total embarrassment.”?
The others:
“Why do you continue on with the “Unionist mob” stuff?”
It’s the Unionist mobs who continue on with their murderous stuff. Robert Hamill, David McIlwaine and Andrew Robb, and now Kevin McDaid, to name but a few.
When are they going to stop?
“Wouldn’t offend you if people said that a Nationalist mob killed those soldiers and Masserene?”
No. They’re weren’t killed by a mob, Nationalist or otherwise. If they’d been set upon by fifty or more youths on the Falls Road I’d consider them to have been killed by a Nationalist mob.
“Apart from that, you are letting people who are using horrible, diversionary tactics to avoid discussing the matter completely off the hook.”
I don’t understand this. Are you referring to the whataboutery? It would be there with or without me. It’s the Ulster way.
“In every thread about the murder of Mr McDaid, you’ve started this futile and ignorant argument.”
I started no such argument. Those who felt offended started the argument. I was merely stating facts.
“Act your age.”
Is that a question? If so, what does it mean?
Big Maggie,
You have already clarified for us that you yourself are a unionist as you are very happy with the union and the advantages it brings your family. You have stated that you support the union. So you are a unionist.
Perhaps that explains your obsession with the phrase unionist mob. You are projecting your own self loathing onto others.
dub,
“You have stated that you support the union.”
You infer too much for your own good. I stated no such thing. I said the Union supports me, not vice versa.
“Perhaps that explains your obsession with the phrase unionist mob.”
I’m not obsessed with it at all. It happens to be relevant to recent events.
“You are projecting your own self loathing onto others.”
… said the chief projectionist :^)
Big Maggie
” believe certain people are confusing “parallax” with “parallel”.”
No, I think you are the only one with a problem concerning definitions.
The term parallax view is also taken from the film directed by Alan Pakula that starred Warren Beaty.
“The term parallax view is also taken from the film directed by Alan Pakula that starred Warren Beaty”
Well I suppose if i removed my head from my rectal passage once in a while, I would have know that.
Sorry, my mistake.
Doctor Who,
“The term parallax view is also taken from the film directed by Alan Pakula that starred Warren Beaty.”
You mean it’s as meaningful as Quantum of Solace?
Chris,
Can you please block those pathetic Unionists who feel so cornered they resort to idiotic impersonation? Rather pathetic but par for the course.
Perhaps a simple cross referencing of IPs will reveal some interesting facts. Thanks.
“nevermind that wanker the dubliner, he’s just a fine gael wind up merchant who hates northern nationalists with a passion! every one of his posts has the ring of kevin my-arse about it.” – dave(not the dubliner)
While I appreciate your deserving genuflection to the capital Dave by rendering your own name in lower case, please modify your impudent outbursts in future to so that they omit reference to myself as a member of a party of political ne’er-do-wells like Fine Gael. I was a member of FF, but I lost faith in that party when it embraced European nationalism and soft-socialism. I don’t support any Irish political party (but have huge respect for the Tories) and will make a point of voting for the most capable independent candidate in the local election and for Libertas in the European election.
By the way, it turns out that Fine Gael, according to the GFA, were right about the legitimacy of partition all along. All of the mainstream political parties on the island of Ireland have now signed up for it via the GFA, with none of them now disputing the legitimacy of British sovereignty over Northern Ireland. Since partition is now legitimate, the real issue is a fair repartition.
“Maggie… Act your age. ” – pl
That would be senile.
Dave,
“That would be senile.
”
My my, I’ve really put a few noses out of joint, eh?
Have you anything other than personal insults to contribute to this discussion?
Maggie did you have sex (if ever) ?
you come across as attention seeking and frustrated.
personally i bet you are a right dog
I wouln’t touch you with chris’s dick
and btw im a nationalist (as im sure you are dying to know). do u not notice how few people like you here ??
In relation to Chris’s point that it is crucial that senior nationalist Politicians hold the PSNI to account. The nationalist political leadership have virtually ignored the murder of Mr. Mc Daid. They have also to their lasting shame ignored the conduct of the PSNI on the day. Parallels with Robert Hamil’s murder sit uncomfortably with those like Martin Mc Guinness Alex Maskey and Gerry Adams who have embraced a newly repackaged Unionist Police Force. The command structure of which is accountable to no one.
It took Martin Mc Guinness four days working in hand in glove with Sir Hugh Orde his PSNI police chief to concoct a statement which would not offend the sensibilities of Sir Hugh or his Officers in the Special Branch nor question the integrity of his force or their unwillingness or inability to defend Catholics, which was very decent of him and no doubt will be greatly appreciated by Sir Hugh when he heaves a huge sigh of relief and heads back to a nice cushy job with his bit on the side in England.
It would seem that Martin Mc Guinness, like Mark Durkan, Gerry Adams, Alban Maginness and Barbara de Brun decided to leave the explosive issue of the PSNI‘s dismal failure to protect Catholics from sectarian attack well alone and decided concentrate on getting themselves on that big European gravy train instead, without stepping on any toes or being to controversial and offending the sensibilities of Sir Hugh. Maybe he’ll recommend them for a knighthood for being so considerate and compliant.
Incidentally nothing from Cardinal Brady regarding the PSNI’s failure to protect vulnerable individuals and communities from sectarian attack. Don’t expect anything soon either.
tom,
Good comments. I believe you’ve successfully summed up the “integrity” of Mssrs McGuinness, Durkan and the other top Nationalist politians. They’ve tasted power and wealth at last and aren’t about to jeopardize it for the sake of a nobody from Coleraine.
Quite distasteful.
As regards Brady, well, he has enough on his (collection) plate without the added burden of preaching morality to his flock.
“As regards Brady, well, he has enough on his (collection) plate without the added burden of preaching morality to his flock. ”
I think these comments are most unfair, he actually has more pressing matters at hand, so less of the smart comments please, and try to show a some christian values.
Its so easy to sit on the sidelines and make sneering comments on blogs like this, isn’t it?
http://www.examiner.ie/ireland/cardinal-brady-profoundly-sorry-and-deeply-ashamed–92234.html
“They’ve tasted power and wealth at last and aren’t about to jeopardize it for the sake of a nobody from Coleraine.”
What you want them to do ? wear sackcloth ?
PaulB,
“I think these comments are most unfair, he actually has more pressing matters at hand, so less of the smart comments please, and try to show a some christian values.”
What Christian values would those be? The ones the Church lost sight of in Ireland for over 60 years while children were being institutionally tortured and raped?
Cardinal Brady lives not an hour’s drive from Coleraine. Please don’t tell me he’s too busy with damage control to his Church not to have given a robust response to the depravity of that mob murder. Or is he cautious of Protestant backlash?
The Presbyterians to their credit showed more solidarity. But of course they don’t labour under the same feudal hierarchy as the Catholic Church, do they? The latter still haven’t seen this for the problem it is and was.
“What you want them to do ? wear sackcloth ?”
How about concentrate on their own constituencies and less on Europe? Europe is well able to take care of itself and it won’t matter one whit who’s elected this week; it’s the unelected Commissioners who call the shots, not the MEPs.
Let our politicians call an extraordinary meeting with the police and try to work out a strategy that will put an end once and for all to outrages like the McDaid murder. We’re now head and ears into the marching season, 12 July looms. Who knows what we can expect from certain murderous factions within Unionism in the weeks to come or the months following?
It’s time for our elected reps to call a spade a spade and do some serious talking, and to put constructive proposals on the table.
“What Christian values would those be? The ones the Church lost sight of in Ireland for over 60 years while children were being institutionally tortured and raped?”
that is a totally childish response………
“Let our politicians call an extraordinary meeting with the police and try to work out a strategy that will put an end once and for all to outrages like the McDaid murder.”
Absolutely IMPOSSIBLE !!!!! an “extraordinary meeting” cannot solve societys ills, Such nonsense you talk.
“It’s time for our elected reps to call a spade a spade and do some serious talking, and to put constructive proposals on the table.”
How about the return of shoot to kill policies….would that be good for starters ? is that what you want ?
I am a nationalist, and obviously totally condem this senless killing, but we must keep calm and not have knee jerk reactions that punish unionists as a whole, as in my opinion this murder was simply carried out by thugs who could have come from any society. We must look at the bigger picture here otherwise we will plunge back into the abyss.
PaulB,
“that is a totally childish response………”
Again: Brady lives less than an hour from Coleraine. Where was he when needed? Engaging in damage control. What did you say about “Christian values”?
“an “extraordinary meeting” cannot solve societys ills, Such nonsense you talk.”
Silly me, I thought extraordinary meetings lay at the basis of our society. We call them parliamentary sittings. Why shouldn’t one such involve the police?
“How about the return of shoot to kill policies….would that be good for starters ? is that what you want ?”
What gave you that idea? I’m advocating talking not shooting!
“we must keep calm and not have knee jerk reactions that punish unionists as a whole”
No one’s asking that Unionists as a whole be punished. Or if that’s the case I missed it.
“in my opinion this murder was simply carried out by thugs who could have come from any society.”
The first part is true. Yet I’m wondering why this sort of thing is coming increasingly from our society. That’s why I believe it’s time for our political representatives to discuss the question, “Why?”
With regard to the point made earlier, advocating compassion towards the Cathoic Heirarchy and Cardinal Brady. The Catholic Church including Cardinal Brady are in a mess of their own making. The fact is the Catholic Hierarchy was aware of such evil and satanic abuse going on for over 40 years. I am not remotely interested in the sensitive feelings of the Catholic Hierarchy to a bad press. They should have displayed Christian values of compassion to the victims of the evil satanic abuse of children carried out by fallen and evil priests within the Church. The fact is they not only ignored the misery of the children but actively sought to cover it up which in itself is evil. The Priests involved should have been defrocked excommunicated and jailed for carrying out these evil acts. Did this happen? No it did not.
The hierarchy of the Catholic Church were more interested in damage limitation and how much they would have to empty from the Churches coffers to pay in compensation to those whose lives were destroyed by this evil abuse. They were dragged kicking and screaming by the press and their own flock and forced to face up to this issue.
Apart from anything else the despicable behaviour of these Priests and the Catholic Hierarchy who tried to cover it up, is in stark contrast to the dedication shown by thousands of priests who remained faithful to their very difficult vocation and who work tirelessly across Ireland and across the world under difficult circumstances and often under threat of death, to bring comfort and hope to those who have none. The Catholic Hierarchy have let them down as well. They will not be not get a by ball from their flock on this issue and rightly so. They have a lot to answer for.
My main point was straightforward. Why did none of the nationalist political establishment comment on the conduct of the PSNI before and during the murder of Mr Mc Daid and the savage attack on Mr Fleming? Mark Durkan, Gerry Adams, Martin Mc Guinness, our prospective euro candidates Barbara De Brun and Alban Mc Guinness skulked away and refused to address the concerns expressed by both the family of Mr Mc Daid and a considerable amount of the nationalist population, about the conduct of the PSNI during the murder of Mr Mc Daid and the attack on Mr Fleming why?
As far as Cardinal Brady and the Catholic Hierarchy commenting on murder of Mr Mc Daid and the conduct of the PSNI both before and during the heinous murder is concerned . The thundering pulpits of the Catholic Hierarchy were strangely silent. Could this be because like their politically correct friends in the SDLP and Sinn Fein they endorsed the PSNI which is controlled by the Special Branch and MI5 who are saddled with the legacy of political and sectarian murder which was often inspired and organised by this arm of the PSNI. .
They have done this in the past and are capable of doing it again,as they are not accountable to the electorate, our politicians, or any of the District Policing Partnerships (DPPs) endorsed by the leadership of the SDLP and Sinn Fein ( converts to the DPP’s Alex Maskey and Martina Anderson please note). This inconvenient and uncomfortable truth is something that Cardinal Brady and the Catholic Hierarchy may not like to face up to and it would be interesting to hear the views of our politically correct politicians and the Catholic Hierarchy to these concerns although I am not expecting a rush to reply any time soon.
tom,
Good comment as always. I noted that you twice described the conduct of clergmen as “satanic abuse”.
The irony is that Christians were clamouring some years ago to investigate so-called Satanism in Britain and elsewhere, when in fact there was no such thing. “Satanists” are no more than bands of swingers who like to hold the occasional orgy. AFAIK those orgies do not and have never involved child abuse.
I linked to this interesting site recently:
>>For over forty years, delusional and lying Christians have accused Satanists of committing all manner of atrocities toward children without any evidence. This is ironic considering the pervasive occurrence of prolonged systematic child abuse among the various Christian churches and denominations, and among others abusing positions of trust in the Jewish and Islamic Synagogues and Mosques.
>>Enough hypocrisy. We all know who the sick, deranged child abusers really are: the sanctimonious frauds of the Judeo-Christian-Islamic traditions.
>>In fact, you could go so far as to say that child abuse IS a Judeo-Christian-Islamic tradition!<<
I spoke to various Catholic friends in the wake of the Ryan report. Not one reported a mention by their parish priests that Sunday. It led me to think that the Catholic Church is still refusing to take this as seriously as it should. It seems that only when it impacts their institution financially do they become exercised.
“As far as Cardinal Brady and the Catholic Hierarchy commenting on murder of Mr Mc Daid and the conduct of the PSNI both before and during the heinous murder is concerned . The thundering pulpits of the Catholic Hierarchy were strangely silent.”
Yes, again the pulpits were silent. I sometimes wonder if Brady and the rest are living in the same place as I am. Time, I think, to tear the house down and start over.
What would Jesus say?
They had at least a decade to repair their house but they only called in the brickies when it looked as if it was falling down about their ears.
dave,
y the way, it turns out that Fine Gael, according to the GFA, were right about the legitimacy of partition all along.
er, fine gael disputed the legitimacy of partition for many many years as did all political parties south of the border.
once again you are talking pure shit.
just for the once, please explain in what way ni was, is or ever has been a state, as you keep telling us it is.
also please clarify the prccedures someone born in ni has to go thru to claim irish citizenship as i am unaware of any.
lastly please study article 2 of the bunreacht na heireann ( in tandem with articles 9.2.1 and 9.2.2.) and get back to us when you have.. you are aware that consitutional law overrides all other domestic law in ireland are you not?
tom
“The Priests involved should have been defrocked ”
I thought this was part of the problem ?
“Fr Pat MaBum”,
You may think your remark is hilarious. It is not.
Countless innocent children were sexually abused by priests and other religious. I don’t know if you have kids of your own but I do. The thought of them experiencing the horrors recounted in the Ryan report chills my soul.
Please don’t make light of this. Your wit must surely be of use elsewhere. Surf the net. There are innumerable places where it will undoubtedly be appreciated.
Politeness forbids me to say any more.
Tom wrote: My main point was straightforward. Why did none of the nationalist political establishment comment on the conduct of the PSNI before and during the murder of Mr Mc Daid and the savage attack on Mr Fleming? Mark Durkan, Gerry Adams, Martin Mc Guinness, our prospective euro candidates Barbara De Brun and Alban Mc Guinness skulked away and refused to address the concerns expressed by both the family of Mr Mc Daid and a considerable amount of the nationalist population, about the conduct of the PSNI during the murder of Mr Mc Daid and the attack on Mr Fleming why?
I earlier wrote about about how the political establishment, both local and regional, had much blame to shoulder for the events leading up to this attack. And yet I was accused of sectarian hand-wringing. I note this the Deputy First Minister today that he has also remarked on the failure of local political leadership, though admittedly he aims the verbal at the MP for East Londonderry.
I truly hope that the wider inquiry into this notes some of the antics of local politicians from both sides in this area, and that some political maturity will grow out of this.
Maggie, you earlier noted the approach of the 12th. I for one will be interested to see if there is any toning-down of “celebrations” in the area. I live at the fringes of this area, and – yes, believe it or not – both sides of the community are calling for calm. And yet there is nothing coming from Councillors…nothing.
As I said sometime ago, another distraction will happen upon us, and Mr McDaid’s murder will consigned to a footnote of whataboutery on this board and elsewhere. Some of us are genuinely worried however, once the spotlight moves on, what the outcome will be here locally.