Child abuse: the full story at last?
The frenzy over MPs’ expenses in the UK should pale by comparison with the public reaction in Ireland to the long-awaited report this week of the Commission to inquire into the horrific extent of 60 years of child abuse by Catholic priests and order members. At least it ought to: I expect it will, I’ve only observed the unfolding story from a distance. Or could it be that the public are becoming desensitised by the subject at last? Outrage and witch hunts are hardly the right response, but even now, shouldn’t people be on the alert for more evasion? Is it just me or has the coverage trailing the report been fairly muted? The Irish Times ran a substantial backgrounder yesterday by Mary Raftery, whose RTE doc sparked the decade-long investigation. Raftery recounts a tale of official obstruction and later compromise, in the interests of natural justice and handling an almost overwhelming volume of material. This weekend the BBC in NI and on networks trailed the report. So far though, I can’t trace any more in Google news Ireland or from RTE. Notoriously, in spite of more than a decade of exposures worldwide, foot dragging has dogged the whole subject for years, not only in Ireland. At least the current archbishop of Dublin Diarmuid Martin was savvy enough to warn on Holy Thursday that the impending report would “shock us all.”. Further action from government and the Church will be keenly awaited.
“Is it just me or has the coverage trailing the report been fairly muted?”
Brian, this is an absolutely shocking story. Sometimes when people in power and authority are involved in abuse, corruption and even possibly murder the MSM is reluctant to take the gloves off. For example, I make no apology for drawing attention to the Freddie Andrews story, a story that has just been brought to my attention.
The cutting question in all this is how can the Catholic Church wbich is apparently just a 2,000 year old pedaphile cult cleverly disguised still be allowed to have anything with the education of young people?
Brian,
Thank you for blogging this and the link to Mary Raftery’s article in the Irish Times.
There were two parts of that which caught my attention:
“The religious congregations for their part asserted that many of their members concerned were deceased or elderly and infirm, making it impossible for them to mount an effective defence.”
and this one:
“The commission listed weapons used, leather straps, together with “a variety of sticks and other instruments including ash plants, blackthorn sticks, brush handles, pointers, farm implements, drain rods, rubber tyres, fan belts, horse tackle, sliotars and hurling sticks”.
“Sexual abuse is described as being commonly associated with physical violence and “ranged from detailed interrogation about sexual activity, inspection of genitalia, kissing, fondling of genitalia, masturbation of witness by abuser and vice versa, oral intercourse, rape and gang rape. Witnesses described their sexual abuse as sometimes a single event while for others the abuse lasted for their entire stay in the institution.”
So we’re supposed to have pity on the swine who did that to little children? And the reason being that they (the perpetrators) are to old to defend themselves. Did it not cross the minds of those perverts that the abused children couldn’t “mount an effective defence”?
I’m also disturbed by the stonewalling of the Irish authorities. Call me suspicious but I wonder how many of the stonewallers have themselves a clear conscience on the domestic front? Otherwise why not welcome the opportunity of bringing the criminals to justice and restore the good reputation of the nation?
I welcome this report and the shame it has brought on both the Church and the authorities. At least it is now being addressed which cannot be said of other sex abuse crimes that have been covered up for decades. There must now be an independent investigation into the Kincora scandal and the subsequent British government/Military/Intelligence Services & Loyal Orders/Masonic cover up. Kincora was just the tip of the iceburg on British/Unionist Establishment sexual abuse stories. These have been ignored for too long and cannot be allowed to be forgotten. If we are to be consistent on all of this we MUST address ALL these incidents.
Nevin,
I don’t want to send this thread off topic. It’s much too important for that. At the same time the Freddie Andrews story you linked to rang some bells with me. My husband and I had dealings with “Master” Brian Hall, whom we found to be odious and arrogant. I’m not surprised the MSM didn’t want to touch this story. There are so many high-placed solicitors involved that you print at your peril. I understand it’s gone to Brussels now and I wish Freddie’s aged sister (92) luck with her fight for justice.
Lurig,
Yes, let’s open up the Kincora scandal and unmask the perpetrators. Child abuse doesn’t recognize borders and I’ve a feeling there’s as much of it in NI as anywhere else. Possibly more, since NI consistently tops UK polls for all the wrong reasons.
Quoting the article in the Irish Times:
[i]“Again, the decision to no longer name and shame has been severely criticised by victims, who feel with some justification that the commission has had its teeth pulled.
The commission might no longer fulfil its original commitment to reflect fully the experiences of all who testified before it, or even to expose the perpetrators” [/i]
Want to know why the commission has backtracked keeping the identity of the Priests hidden? Look no further than (Decret. Gregorii, lib. ii. tit. ii. cap. i. ii. vi, and Sexti Decret. lib. ii. tit. ii. cap. ii.)
[u]“It is not lawful for a layman to sit in judgment upon a clergyman. Secular judges who dare, in the exercise of a damnable presumption, to compel priests to pay their debts, are to be restrained by spiritual censures.” [/u]
“I’m not surprised the MSM didn’t want to touch this story.”
Big Maggie, you’ve made a very telling point about the selective approach adopted by the MSM to important stories from our rather sick society. The stories about child abuse were ‘overlooked’ by a spineless media for too long.
What has happened in Ireland is a crime against humanity and must be prosecuted as such by an international court, and not by the Irish authorities who are fully complicit. The Irish authorities must also be prosecuted as an accessory to this crime against humanity.
It’s good if the abusers are going to be exposed.
Don’t let anyone for a moment think that this pedophile behaviour is confined to Irish priests. It has been widespread in N.A. too, including Canada. It’s my belief that the reason that the higher ups in the church did not discipline those priests that were brought to their attention is that a large number of them were at it too. It is hard not to believe that the pedophiles were not deliberately recruited.
I know something about it since I was educated in Catholic schools, although thankfully, I was not sexually abused, just physically abused along with all of my classmates, with the only exceptions (in Primary schools) being the children of the doctors, lawyers etc.
The abusers will not be identified, as it goes too deep to the core of those in power.
The state aided and assisted this. Surely that makes them culpable?
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2009/may/05/trafficked-chinese-children-crime
Apparently large numbers of vulnerable children have vanished, yet the authorities claim that it would breach these vulnerable childrens human rights to detain them…
And anyone who is familiar with the story of Madeleine Mc Cann, will surely question why her parents have not been prosecuted with Child Neglect…
Rumours abound that the British Government assisted in a cover up there too.
I utterly despair..
Joe, it would be a shame if all religious were tarred with this brush. Some of the most helpful supporters of our cross-community projects came from that sector of society.
“The abusers will not be identified, as it goes too deep to the core of those in power.”
PT, I think we can expect a certain reticence from the MSM when it comes to naming and shaming.
Nevin,
I agree totally that not all should be tarred. I have met and been taught by some very good ones.
When I entered Grammar school, I was warned by older boys to avoid certain priests. At my particular school that was about 10% of them.
An aspect of this institutional abuse that might be lost, whether in Catholic schools and “care” homes or in institutions like Kincora is the class system that gave such unchecked power to abuse to the perpetrators and allowed for those who were to be victims to be classified as underclass, untermenschen, in the first place.
Here we had children who were orphaned, or illegitimate, or with learning difficulties or with physical or mental disorders, or those (but only from the poorer classes) who had been criminalised already stigmatised as being of little worth, essentially ‘bad’ and deserving to be so labelled because they either did not matter to anyone with any economic clout and were seen as a nuisance and a drain on the economy.
Those into whose charge they were given were to be sanctified as ‘caring angels’ burdened with a thankless task caring for the hopeless, the stupid, the lazy, and those plain wicked. And so long as they were kept from making a fuss and no hike in taxation became necessary we were happy.
If we consider that if all those thousands who became nuns, priests and brothers had instead stayed at home demanding their share of the farm or adding to the (unemployed) labour market then we can understand why it was that their ‘saintliness’ was never called into question and Bill Clinton gave the answer, “It’s the economy, stupid!”.
Those who would cite the practice of celibacy as a major contributing factor that led to abuse are I think sometimes missing the point that this was also economically dictated. It would just not have been economically viable for all those thousands of priests and brothers had they been burdened with wives and children to be supported.
What played a major factor in the ability to abuse such power, I believe, was the custom of deference created by both the economic hardships of Ireland itself and the disgusting deference demanded by the better-off and received from those below them. In parts it was as bad as Sicily where a publican, medium-sized farmer or cheese-paring grocer (often, like the Holy Trinity, framed in the one person) held cap-doffing dominance over a whole area, impervious to criticism because any that did arise would be stopped by those fearful it would reach his ears.
But it would not be simply irony if those who wreaked such savagery on the least among us when these their wards were unable to defend themselves should now be exonerated because “it [would be]impossible for them to mount an effective defence”. No, that would be a crime in itself howling to the heavens for redress.
Joe, it makes you wonder why so many parents apparently remained silent. I was in the company of some folks from Ferns around the time that story broke. They had a catalogue of misdemeanours to relate yet none of this was being dealt with.
“that was about 10% of them.”
For Crying out loud Joe, would you think it’s acceptable for 10% of parents to be abusing their kids?
Jesus, these people had more control of us than our parents…
What about the kids who didn’t have the warnings?
Rory, and very often very nebulous criteria were used to institutionalize such children.
Like “mixed marriages”, I may be wrong but we have now come so far down the road of fear mongering regarding what is child abuse, that children are now being taken from their parents under the same “We know best attitude”.
Most studies indicate that children who have been in care, are more at risk from being exploited at every stage of their life and in most senses.
It is often not because of their home background, but the very fact that they have been in care.
So by crying Child abuse they perpetrate further child abuse
Rory, I think deference of whatever sort has been no shield for the victims.
I dabble in genealogy. I came across a couple who’d been abandoned by their respective spouses – had several kids – she died, possibly in child birth – he wasn’t allowed to keep the kids – they were signed into care by the local magistrate – some years later they were shipped off to Australia. This happened a long time ago. I managed to link together some of the kith and kin from the two hemispheres – with the aid of Google.
MacBeth
the Catholic Church wbich is apparently just a 2,000 year old pedaphile cult
Let’s be reasonable for a moment. From memory, it seems that the statistics show that paedophilia is no higher among the Catholic clergy than other clergy, other occupations working with children and parents. Maybe this is just the dark side of mankind. Those rates of abuse are quite low in terms of percentages. But let’s not tarnish everyone with the same brush.
John,
So it’s fine for some clergy to abuse some children. Glad we got those Christian values sorted then..
Now what if the Pope turned out to be one of that small percentage, would that still make him like Jesus, and beyond reproach?
Pigeon Toes
You believe what you want to believe.
You know the point I am making and it is that there has always been a residual level of child abuse in society and it comes from all who come into contact with children including older children. It is all repulsive and evil.
The Pope is revered because he is good. Of course he would lose that reputation if he failed. But I’ll bet that he won’t.
“because he is good”
Wouldn’t that have been voted by the clergy?
A percentage of whom are by your admission, paedophiles?
“It is all repulsive and evil”.
For Crying out loud Joe, would you think it’s acceptable for 10% of parents to be abusing their kids?
Pigeon toes, do you think I implied that?
I have zero tolerance for that behaviour and I agree with Rory, their age should not be a factor in them being, not only exposed, but also being prosecuted. They will have to convince a Judge that they cannot mount a defence due to dementia or whatever.
Pigeon Toes
Wouldn’t that have been voted by the clergy?
By Cardinals guided by the Holy Spirit. There has never been a paedophile Cardinal, but if you know so little about the Church, would you describe yourself as a non-Catholic mischief maker?
“By Cardinals guided by the Holy Spirit”
Oh would that be the same Holy Spirit which came to the clergy during their Confirmation?
So I am supposed to accept that these Cardinals had the presence of the Holy Spirit, but not er these paedophiles who also had the benefit of the Sacrament of Holy Orders?
Are all Catholics not supposed to be guided by the Holy Spirit in matters of conscience?
Obviously my understanding of the Church has been built on premises very different from yours…
Joe,
Sorry didn’t mean to imply that but we were all aware of “the ones too watch”. Surely there is something inherently wrong, when you can state “ach, sure it was only some of them”…
I know that I got taught by some mad sadistic bastards. And if I thought one of my children would endure such an “educational experience”, I would be calling the police.
Yes, Pigeon toes, there must have been parents who were aware yet still sent their children to the same schools that they went to.
I’m happy to say that when three of my siblings (triplets no less) went to Grammar school, I went to my parents, told them the full story and after a number of talks, persuaded them to withdraw them. I saw the Headmaster of the State Grammar school, and they all transferred there. They, the children once, have been very appreciative, even at the time, of what I did.
To me it all boils to that awful thing of parents being so brainwashed, that they disbelieved children when they even hinted that there was something going on.
I know, if we had gone home and told our parents that we had even been told off that my parents automatically came out on teachers side.
So as a result it was easier not to tell, it avoided getting told off twice!!
My parents still refer to teachers as “Master”
Which really says it all….
UMH: Want to know why the commission has backtracked keeping the identity of the Priests hidden? Look no further than (Decret. Gregorii, lib. ii. tit. ii. cap. i. ii. vi, and Sexti Decret. lib. ii. tit. ii. cap. ii.)
UMH, I’m quite sure I asked you this before, but can you please tell me where you got this translation….presuming you didn’t personally translate it from the Latin original?
If you’re looking for the Antichrist, take your pick:-
http://johnoconnell.org/number_of_the_beast_calculat.htm
John,
I believe you have been told off before about using SOT as a free advertising medium. For shame.
‘But let’s not tarnish everyone with the same brush.’
The same old hoary excuse used again and again . So why not reveal ALL the names and then the ‘innocent ‘ clergy can refer all accusations to their absence on the ‘list’
I went to a Catholic secondary school where it was known that the Head Brother regularly molested younger boys . We all knew it in our senior years but the new first year boys were easy prey for this sicko .
As far as I know he got away with it . Connections to the ruling FF at the time -his cousin being a TD and having a son of a Government Minister teaching in the school at the time was helped to ensure that any complaints were muted .
We need a total separation of Church and State in Ireland . The Churches (all of them ) need to be treated as business organisations and should be required to submit a detailed list of all revenues and expenditures for taxation purposes. Such taxation raised from these businesses should go into a fund to redress the effects of the whatever crimes against humanity these people were involved in !
The assumption that the Church (Churches ) as institutions are above all miscreance and can be trusted to obey the civil laws of society is outdated and was never true anyway. The history of all countries in the West shows corruption and venality has been just as prevalent in the religious as in secular society . Given the non democratic control exercised by the RC Church and others over many of their members it was easier for them to abuse the innocent and get away with it !
What Joe, ye didn’t immediately follow it to find the numbers?
Guess his own infallible parents came up with a name that did not correspond.
Brian: I’m not the Messiah! Will you please listen? I am not the Messiah, do you understand? Honestly!
Girl: Only the true Messiah denies His divinity.
Brian: What? Well, what sort of chance does that give me? All right! I am the Messiah!
Followers: He is! He is the Messiah!
Brian: Now, fuck off!
[silence]
Arthur: How shall we fuck off, O Lord?
O’Connell ,
You need to print that shite on rough sandpaper and then wipe your arse with it ;( .
There is no anti christ -there are no leprechauns and the Tooth Fairy and Santa Claus are for little children !
Greenflag
Oh, yes, there is!
Greenflag,
Someone once gave me a great piece of advice – don’t feed trolls.
Whilst O Connell is an aggravating bastard, why not enter into discourse with the “gentleman”?
As my dear daddy says “He’ll get tired before you do”
I note that said troll does not have a fluent argument, but reverts to his standard…
pigeons ,
‘I note that said troll does not have a fluent argument, ‘
You note well . Note also the effluent basis on which said arguments rest . Throne room tissue at best – mildly zany at worst.
J Canuck – True .
Lurig
Well done. Three posts in and we get “themmuns done it too”
The BBC spoke to Colm O’Gorman about the forthcoming report.
He was abused by one of Ireland’s most notorious paedophiles, Father Sean Fortune, and believes the Church still has too much power, particularly in education.
“Well over 90% of all Irish primary schools are administered by the Catholic Church in Ireland,” he said.
“The local bishop is responsible for child protection within those schools.
“That means we still have a situation where an institution that was so entirely negligent in how it addressed child protection concerns in the past, has full legal responsibility for child protection in the majority of Irish schools.
“That’s obviously a concern, and the state needs to do more in Ireland to take on that responsibility.”
‘“The local bishop is responsible for child protection within those schools.’
“That means we still have a situation where an institution that was so entirely negligent in how it addressed child protection concerns in the past, has full legal responsibility for child protection in the majority of Irish schools.’
Which political party will speak out and state that this needs changing now ? Not I said FF -Not I said FG -Not I said Labour – SF ? Greens ?
The RC Church is not a ‘democratic’ institution , never has been and probably never will be . It believes it is God’s voice on earth and is only answerable to the State in so far as over the centuries it has been forced to cede it’s previous temporal powers by the people of Europe.
A few observations:
1. Child abuse has really only recently been revealed and discussed (in the developed world – imagine the situation in the developing world!) and clearly has happened in state institutions as well as religious ones. Paedophiles gravitate to children’s homes etc and it is only relatively recently that state authorities have publically recognised this and started to act.
2. I would suggest that paedophiles are attracted to secretive, celibate organistations such as the Catholic Church, it’s good cover and allows them to get close to kids, plus the arrogant un-(anti-) democratic organisation protects them.
3. The RoI should vigorously prosecute those responsible for abuse regardless of their status. I suggest those RC hierarchy who evidence suggest helped guilty priests escape justice should be prosecuted too.
4. How about corporate responsibility? The buck stops withe the CEO, in the case of the RC church, the Pope.
5. Greenflag is spot on IMHO, clear separation of church and sate is necessary in the RoI.
6. May I make a suggestion to the Catholic church? Try a bit of democracy and accountability why don’t ya! If it was held to account by the congregation I bet “performance” would improve. Also, let priests marry, (the orthodox and prtestant churches do). May make the club less attractive to paedophiles. Bin your ridiculous homophobia, allow gay priests to have relationships. Combined these measures may allow priests (and nuns) to have a decent life with loving personal relationships (shocking!) which I think must be a great weapon against paedophilia.
7. If the RC church can’t do 6 above, just cut priest’s nuts off. After all they wouldn’t need ‘em. Problem solved.
8. Alternatively everybody just stop believing all that daft sky fairy nonsense.
Fergus-that would be Presbyteriansm then?
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-407808/Pope-led-cover-child-abuse-priests.html
“Cardinal Ratzinger reinforced the strict cover-up policy by introducing a new principle: that the Vatican must have what it calls Exclusive Competence. In other words, he commanded that all child abuse allegations should be dealt with direct by Rome.
Patrick Wall, a former Vatican-approved enforcer of the Crimen Sollicitationis in America, tells the programme: “I found out I wasn’t working for a holy institution, but an institution that was wholly concentrated on protecting itself.”
And Father Tom Doyle, a Vatican lawyer until he was sacked for criticising the church’s handling of child abuse claims, says: “What you have here is an explicit written policy to cover up cases of child sexual abuse by the clergy and to punish those who would call attention to these crimes by the churchmen.
“When abusive priests are discovered, the response has been not to investigate and prosecute but to move them from one place to another. So there’s total disregard for the victims and for the fact that you are going to have a whole new crop of victims in the next place. This is happening all over the world”
Pigeon Toes
Whilst O Connell is an aggravating bastard, why not enter into discourse with the “gentleman”?
It seems okay for you to abuse adults so why wouldn’t you be a child abuser too? You’re some gentleman by the way. Clearly you’re yet another egomaniac using this website to promote your own agenda.
I do this in the name of the father….. “Fergus-that would be Presbyteriansm then?”
Would it, dunno, I am not theologically minded but I thought there were other differences besides the issues of celibacy. the Pope and democracy in the church (“transubstantiation” rings a bell, sad how you remember this stuff).
My view is that Presbyterianism was “progressive” in the 17th century. Not now though. Best to abandon the sky fairies all round.
Mind you I suppose many a Presbyterian would like to cut the nuts off a Catholic priest! (joke?)
As for post above from “Pigeon Toes”. Clearly responsible states have to try and see justice is done, the RC church cannot be trusted to do so. Seek ‘em out (vigorously), prosecute and bang ‘em up if convicted. Also go after the hierarchy who protect them, surely that is criminal too. All the way up to the top.
“[i]If the RC church can’t do 6 above, just cut priest’s nuts off. After all they wouldn’t need ‘em. Problem solved.”[/i]
They used to do that too Fergus D.
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/7/7a/1749_eunuch.jpg
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2003/aug/17/religion.childprotection
“A 1960 Papal document bearing the seal of Pope John XXIII was sent to every bishop in the world. The instructions outline a policy of ‘strictest’ secrecy in dealing with allegations of sexual abuse and threatens those who speak out with excommunication.
They also call for the victim to take an oath of secrecy at the time of making a complaint to Church officials. It states that the instructions are to ‘be diligently stored in the secret archives of the Curia [Vatican] as strictly confidential. Nor is it to be published nor added to with any commentaries.”
“You’re some gentleman by the way”
Hmm not last time I checked….
“It seems okay for you to abuse adults”
Mr O Connell, what adults have I “abused”?
There is obviously a very clear distinction in an opinion held by me, and to which you have the right of reply.
Are you really drawing a comparison between this and the depraved sexual abuse of young innocent children by clergy in the Catholic Church?
If you cannot see the distinction, then I suggest that you may need to examine your conscience (and your sense of logic)