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	<title>Comments on: Down in Fianna Fail, something stirred&#8230;</title>
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	<link>http://sluggerotoole.com/2009/04/25/down-in-fianna-fail-something-stirred/</link>
	<description>Conversation, politics and stray insights</description>
	<lastBuildDate>Sun, 27 May 2012 03:59:19 +0000</lastBuildDate>
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		<title>By: EWI</title>
		<link>http://sluggerotoole.com/2009/04/25/down-in-fianna-fail-something-stirred/comment-page-1/#comment-312619</link>
		<dc:creator>EWI</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Mon, 04 May 2009 05:37:28 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-312619</guid>
		<description>A bit of a postscript here - well, a question for Naoise Nunn, actually.

Are the media reports that you were &#039;advising&#039; McGuinness true, and, if so, don&#039;t you think that you really ought to have disclosed this while posting links favourable to McGuinness&#039; aims?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>A bit of a postscript here &#8211; well, a question for Naoise Nunn, actually.</p>
<p>Are the media reports that you were &#8216;advising&#8217; McGuinness true, and, if so, don&#8217;t you think that you really ought to have disclosed this while posting links favourable to McGuinness&#8217; aims?</p>
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		<title>By: EWI</title>
		<link>http://sluggerotoole.com/2009/04/25/down-in-fianna-fail-something-stirred/comment-page-1/#comment-310878</link>
		<dc:creator>EWI</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Apr 2009 04:54:25 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-310878</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;Anyway, Libertas is pro-EU, but anti federal/integrationist.&lt;/i&gt;

Unfortunately for the self-proclaimed &quot;pro-EU&quot; Libertas, they seem to have rather poor taste in their European friends and allies, the vast majority of whom appear to be right-wing Eurosceptics and cranks.

&lt;i&gt; I think we’re heading for a coup of some sort&lt;/i&gt;

Do tell?</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>Anyway, Libertas is pro-EU, but anti federal/integrationist.</i></p>
<p>Unfortunately for the self-proclaimed &#8220;pro-EU&#8221; Libertas, they seem to have rather poor taste in their European friends and allies, the vast majority of whom appear to be right-wing Eurosceptics and cranks.</p>
<p><i> I think we’re heading for a coup of some sort</i></p>
<p>Do tell?</p>
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		<title>By: Dave</title>
		<link>http://sluggerotoole.com/2009/04/25/down-in-fianna-fail-something-stirred/comment-page-1/#comment-310876</link>
		<dc:creator>Dave</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Apr 2009 04:44:45 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-310876</guid>
		<description>[i]I’ve found some of his recent blog entries to be pretty pro-European, to the chargrin of our leading anti-Euro commenter here (sorry Dave ;-) )... [/i]


Mack, I&#039;m more of a ranter than a commenter, and I&#039;m certainly not an authority on any subject outside of structural engineering. ;)

Anyway, Libertas is pro-EU, but anti-federal/integrationist. It seeks reform of the EU to make it more democratic, but does not see that it is intrinsically anti-democratic and should be dismantled, not reformed. Libertas are, of course, on the side of the Irish people as they have expressed their democratic will via the Lisbon referendum, with the government in the role of subverting that democratic will at the behest of their neo-colonial masters in the EU. That subversion of democracy is a good example of why such a profoundly anti-democratic cartel cannot be reformed.

Gurdgiev makes a number of good points on the link that Naoise Nunn posted. I think we&#039;re heading for a coup of some sort as these muppets have inflicted such damage on the nation that will be clear to all within a year but not fully manifest until two years or more. FF still see the function of the people as being to serve the state in whatever way the state dictates but the people have a very different view about that.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[i]I’ve found some of his recent blog entries to be pretty pro-European, to the chargrin of our leading anti-Euro commenter here (sorry Dave <img src='http://sluggerotoole.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' />  )&#8230; [/i]</p>
<p>Mack, I&#8217;m more of a ranter than a commenter, and I&#8217;m certainly not an authority on any subject outside of structural engineering. <img src='http://sluggerotoole.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';)' class='wp-smiley' /> </p>
<p>Anyway, Libertas is pro-EU, but anti-federal/integrationist. It seeks reform of the EU to make it more democratic, but does not see that it is intrinsically anti-democratic and should be dismantled, not reformed. Libertas are, of course, on the side of the Irish people as they have expressed their democratic will via the Lisbon referendum, with the government in the role of subverting that democratic will at the behest of their neo-colonial masters in the EU. That subversion of democracy is a good example of why such a profoundly anti-democratic cartel cannot be reformed.</p>
<p>Gurdgiev makes a number of good points on the link that Naoise Nunn posted. I think we&#8217;re heading for a coup of some sort as these muppets have inflicted such damage on the nation that will be clear to all within a year but not fully manifest until two years or more. FF still see the function of the people as being to serve the state in whatever way the state dictates but the people have a very different view about that.</p>
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		<title>By: EWI</title>
		<link>http://sluggerotoole.com/2009/04/25/down-in-fianna-fail-something-stirred/comment-page-1/#comment-310867</link>
		<dc:creator>EWI</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Apr 2009 03:41:44 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-310867</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;EWI - Is that still the case (sorry Mick, hope this isn’t breaking rules)&lt;/i&gt;

Gurdgiev was at the Versailles ball - excuse me, the dinner party -hosted by Declan Ganley in honour of Vaclav Klaus last year:

&lt;i&gt;&quot;Many of the other 96 diners listed on the table plan, including Ganley, were Libertas organisers. The dinner was also attended by a clutch of Irish and Irish-based journalists sympathetic to Libertas. They included Constantin Gurdgiev, editor of Business &amp; Finance magazine; Eamon Dunphy, the soccer pundit and broadcaster; Bruce Arnold of Independent News Media; Richard Waghorne of the Daily Mail ; and Frank Fitzgibbon, Irish editor of the Sunday Times.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2008/1113/1226408581963.html

Amusingly enough;

&lt;i&gt;&quot;The guests, who numbered close to 100, were entertained by the Irish Chamber Orchestra from the University of Limerick under the direction of Prof Micheal Ó Suilleabháin as well as a troupe of set-dancers. The menu consisted of house-cured Irish salmon followed by grilled tenderloin steak and vanilla crème brulee.&quot;&lt;/i&gt;

http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2008/1113/1226408582790.html

I could speculate on just what it may be that Mr. Gurdgiev finds agreeable in Mr. Ganley, but I&#039;m trying really hard to abide by Mick&#039;s &quot;ball&quot; rule here (and it&#039;s not too hard to find my opinions elsewhere).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>EWI &#8211; Is that still the case (sorry Mick, hope this isn’t breaking rules)</i></p>
<p>Gurdgiev was at the Versailles ball &#8211; excuse me, the dinner party -hosted by Declan Ganley in honour of Vaclav Klaus last year:</p>
<p><i>&#8220;Many of the other 96 diners listed on the table plan, including Ganley, were Libertas organisers. The dinner was also attended by a clutch of Irish and Irish-based journalists sympathetic to Libertas. They included Constantin Gurdgiev, editor of Business &#038; Finance magazine; Eamon Dunphy, the soccer pundit and broadcaster; Bruce Arnold of Independent News Media; Richard Waghorne of the Daily Mail ; and Frank Fitzgibbon, Irish editor of the Sunday Times.&#8221;</i></p>
<p><a href="http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2008/1113/1226408581963.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/opinion/2008/1113/1226408581963.html</a></p>
<p>Amusingly enough;</p>
<p><i>&#8220;The guests, who numbered close to 100, were entertained by the Irish Chamber Orchestra from the University of Limerick under the direction of Prof Micheal Ó Suilleabháin as well as a troupe of set-dancers. The menu consisted of house-cured Irish salmon followed by grilled tenderloin steak and vanilla crème brulee.&#8221;</i></p>
<p><a href="http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2008/1113/1226408582790.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.irishtimes.com/newspaper/ireland/2008/1113/1226408582790.html</a></p>
<p>I could speculate on just what it may be that Mr. Gurdgiev finds agreeable in Mr. Ganley, but I&#8217;m trying really hard to abide by Mick&#8217;s &#8220;ball&#8221; rule here (and it&#8217;s not too hard to find my opinions elsewhere).</p>
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		<title>By: Mack</title>
		<link>http://sluggerotoole.com/2009/04/25/down-in-fianna-fail-something-stirred/comment-page-1/#comment-310864</link>
		<dc:creator>Mack</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Apr 2009 02:32:14 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-310864</guid>
		<description>EWI - Is that still the case (sorry Mick, hope this isn&#039;t breaking rules) - 

http://www.politics.ie/europe/23567-constantin-gurdgiev-disassociates-libertas.html

I&#039;ve found some of his recent blog entries to be pretty pro-European, to the chargrin of our leading anti-Euro commenter here (sorry Dave ;-) )...</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>EWI &#8211; Is that still the case (sorry Mick, hope this isn&#8217;t breaking rules) &#8211; </p>
<p><a href="http://www.politics.ie/europe/23567-constantin-gurdgiev-disassociates-libertas.html" rel="nofollow">http://www.politics.ie/europe/23567-constantin-gurdgiev-disassociates-libertas.html</a></p>
<p>I&#8217;ve found some of his recent blog entries to be pretty pro-European, to the chargrin of our leading anti-Euro commenter here (sorry Dave <img src='http://sluggerotoole.com/wp-includes/images/smilies/icon_wink.gif' alt=';-)' class='wp-smiley' />  )&#8230;</p>
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		<title>By: Mick Fealty</title>
		<link>http://sluggerotoole.com/2009/04/25/down-in-fianna-fail-something-stirred/comment-page-1/#comment-310863</link>
		<dc:creator>Mick Fealty</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Apr 2009 02:17:39 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-310863</guid>
		<description>Interesting. But remember it&#039;s ball not man EWI!</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Interesting. But remember it&#8217;s ball not man EWI!</p>
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		<title>By: EWI</title>
		<link>http://sluggerotoole.com/2009/04/25/down-in-fianna-fail-something-stirred/comment-page-1/#comment-310857</link>
		<dc:creator>EWI</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sun, 26 Apr 2009 01:28:17 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-310857</guid>
		<description>&lt;i&gt;On his blog, Constantin Gurdgiev is looking for documented reasons why Mary Coughlan’s not up for the job.&lt;/i&gt;

What a surprise from &lt;i&gt;Libertas member&lt;/i&gt; Mr. Gurdgiev (forget that part, Naoise?).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p><i>On his blog, Constantin Gurdgiev is looking for documented reasons why Mary Coughlan’s not up for the job.</i></p>
<p>What a surprise from <i>Libertas member</i> Mr. Gurdgiev (forget that part, Naoise?).</p>
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		<title>By: Itwas SammyMcNally whatdoneit</title>
		<link>http://sluggerotoole.com/2009/04/25/down-in-fianna-fail-something-stirred/comment-page-1/#comment-310764</link>
		<dc:creator>Itwas SammyMcNally whatdoneit</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Apr 2009 15:40:23 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-310764</guid>
		<description>The fact that the current economic mess in Ireland would probably have occurred in Ireland if FG and Labour  were in power  (though possible not quite so bad) or in Britain if the Tories were in power(probably a great deal worse) is irrelevant – when the good times roll you get the credit and if disaster strikes when you are in charge then you are out on your arse.  The same logic applies in sport as Jim Magilton(soccer ball) and Eddie o’Sullivan(rugger ball) would both testify – its results stupid. 

Every  election  until the general election in both countries is an opportunity for both electorates to give the current incumbents the mother of all political beatings.   
But  possibly this predicament may offer a glimmer of hope for both parties if they can introduce policies,  which although they are massively unpopular with an already estranged electorate which is unable and unhappy  to take its required economic medicine( even if they know it is the right thing to do) and particularly if the current oppositions are afraid to risk their own electoral fortunes  by proposing the same policies.

Both FF and Labour have nothing to lose – if the polls are to be believed - as they are dead parties walking – or stumbling towards the finish line of the general election in last place.  Why not go for the radical solution  - whether its massive cuts in public expenditure or bank nationalisation – here is an opportunity to do the right thing irrespective of popularity and knowing that it might just save their political necks or restore a pinch of political credibility for the next time round.

The most likely response however, from a political party (as with many organisations) in seemingly terminal decline, is to opt for a bout of civil war(as this thread shows), which no doubt assists in the denial process and in is keeping with their record to date in reacting to events as suits their short term self interest rather than opting for policies which are in the long term national interest.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>The fact that the current economic mess in Ireland would probably have occurred in Ireland if FG and Labour  were in power  (though possible not quite so bad) or in Britain if the Tories were in power(probably a great deal worse) is irrelevant – when the good times roll you get the credit and if disaster strikes when you are in charge then you are out on your arse.  The same logic applies in sport as Jim Magilton(soccer ball) and Eddie o’Sullivan(rugger ball) would both testify – its results stupid. </p>
<p>Every  election  until the general election in both countries is an opportunity for both electorates to give the current incumbents the mother of all political beatings.<br />
But  possibly this predicament may offer a glimmer of hope for both parties if they can introduce policies,  which although they are massively unpopular with an already estranged electorate which is unable and unhappy  to take its required economic medicine( even if they know it is the right thing to do) and particularly if the current oppositions are afraid to risk their own electoral fortunes  by proposing the same policies.</p>
<p>Both FF and Labour have nothing to lose – if the polls are to be believed &#8211; as they are dead parties walking – or stumbling towards the finish line of the general election in last place.  Why not go for the radical solution  &#8211; whether its massive cuts in public expenditure or bank nationalisation – here is an opportunity to do the right thing irrespective of popularity and knowing that it might just save their political necks or restore a pinch of political credibility for the next time round.</p>
<p>The most likely response however, from a political party (as with many organisations) in seemingly terminal decline, is to opt for a bout of civil war(as this thread shows), which no doubt assists in the denial process and in is keeping with their record to date in reacting to events as suits their short term self interest rather than opting for policies which are in the long term national interest.</p>
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		<title>By: Naoise Nunn</title>
		<link>http://sluggerotoole.com/2009/04/25/down-in-fianna-fail-something-stirred/comment-page-1/#comment-310751</link>
		<dc:creator>Naoise Nunn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Apr 2009 13:58:26 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-310751</guid>
		<description>Apologies - link here http://trueeconomics.blogspot.com/2009/04/daily-economics-250409-john-mcguinness.html</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Apologies &#8211; link here <a href="http://trueeconomics.blogspot.com/2009/04/daily-economics-250409-john-mcguinness.html" rel="nofollow">http://trueeconomics.blogspot.com/2009/04/daily-economics-250409-john-mcguinness.html</a></p>
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		<title>By: Naoise Nunn</title>
		<link>http://sluggerotoole.com/2009/04/25/down-in-fianna-fail-something-stirred/comment-page-1/#comment-310750</link>
		<dc:creator>Naoise Nunn</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Sat, 25 Apr 2009 13:57:01 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">#comment-310750</guid>
		<description>On his blog, Constantin Gurdgiev is looking for documented reasons why Mary Coughlan&#039;s not up for the job.

Now we must demand straight talking, constructive debate and policy decisions which can move us forward. Country first, party second. Less tribe, more community. Ideas not ideology. Step forward the business community, unions, PAYE workers and community leaders.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>On his blog, Constantin Gurdgiev is looking for documented reasons why Mary Coughlan&#8217;s not up for the job.</p>
<p>Now we must demand straight talking, constructive debate and policy decisions which can move us forward. Country first, party second. Less tribe, more community. Ideas not ideology. Step forward the business community, unions, PAYE workers and community leaders.</p>
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