Football violence provides occasion for racist attacks in city
The violence surrounding the Northern Ireland- Poland match has taken on an added dimension with the news that up to a dozen homes (reputedly occupied by ethnic minorities) were targetted in the aftermath of the game. The earlier violence has been partially blamed by the PSNI on ‘Polish Nationals’ intent on causing trouble. As this article prior to the visit of Poland to Dublin for a friendly international last year illustrates, Polish supporters have earned an unenviable reputation for football thuggery in recent years.
However, the rioting by Northern Ireland fans after the game and the attacks on ethnic minorities will require a proper investigation by the PSNI to see if any specific loyalist grouping was involved. There is no doubt that an element of the Poland travelling support were bent on causing trouble- as the rioting in Windsor Park after the side went three-one down- illustrates. But other actions- such as the inflammatory graffiti targeting Celtic and Poland goalkeeper, Artur Boruc, in the days leading up to the match, as well as the attack on the linesman, Tates Avenue rioting and attacks on ethnic minority households, suggests there was a loyalist element which sought to use the occasion of this match to stoke up tensions and create trouble.
Indeed, the incidents were reminiscent of events almost exactly a year ago, when a loyalist element was blamed on using the much anticipated Cliftonville-Linfield Irish Cup semi-final to raise sectarian tensions. Within hours of that match, a mob viciously attacked a number of people in the predominantly catholic Castle Street area, and it was also revealed that prior to the match, the Cliftonville Manager, Eddie Patterson, had been sent a bullet in the post.
Whilst the Sports Minister has sought to blame an element of the Polish fans for the trouble (apparently for possessing an Eirigi flag???) perhaps when the dust settles he- and others- will look at the matter with a more level head.
In any case, the violence should not detract from a result which finally gets the Northern Ireland campaign out of the start blocks. Sixty miles south, the performance of the Republic of Ireland side provided a sober reminder to the optimists that Trapattoni’s team are far from the finished article, and with Italy just ahead, the road to South Africa has just got a little rockier.
Chris Donnelly: But other actions-…suggests there was a loyalist element which sought to use the occasion of this match to stoke up tensions and create trouble.
So, while it all may look like mindless bigotry carried out by racist thugs, in reality it might be a cunning plan by loyalist masterminds to advance their well concealed political strategy?
Nah.
http://www.presseye.com/photolibrary/IUpload/280309JP3_030.JPG
http://www.presseye.com/photolibrary/IUpload/280309JP3_031.JPG
The Northern Ireland fans after the game were locals looking for a fight with the Poles. Don’t shit stir Chris
As with the student ‘riots’ barely 2 weeks ago. There is one chief culprit here. Booze. People drinking all day and fighting shocka!
As for the match,as a sort of ex amateur goalie, I actually felt some sympathy for Boruc after his howler,not a lot, but some. Can’t find it on youtube yet, but it’s sure to be an instant classic.
Should be a good match on wed night, though the Slovakian fans fave a bit of racist previous.
Chris – “perhaps when the dust settles he- and others- will look at the matter with a more level head.”
including yourself i may add.
So, while it all may look like mindless bigotry carried out by racist thugs, in reality it might be a cunning plan by loyalist masterminds to advance their well concealed political strategy?
Reader
Racist attacks in that part of Belfast suggest there is little ‘concealed’ about the strategy of some in the area.
Oh, and I certainly wouldn’t label such individuals as masterminds.
That doesn’t take away from the possibility/ probability that there was a co-ordinated dimension to the incidents that occurred, from the graffiti onward.
Come to think of it, the alternative, that groups of unconnected individuals took it upon themselves to use the match and its unsavoury incidents as cover to launch attacks on ethnic minorities is actually a much worse proposition.
As I’ve illustrated, there is recent form to suggest some elements within loyalism are willing to use local football matches to vent their sectarian/ racist fury on the unsuspecting.
Some mightn’t like that fact, but there you go.
Chris Donnelly: …strategy…co-ordinated…
We aren’t disagreeing on issues of sentiment or principle here. It’s just that I don’t think there is a plan: racists, bigots, homophobes and vigilantes will all act up whenever circumstances offer them a smidgeon of cover.
The political element to this is that Gregory the Great (if he has not already done so) should be condemning all those involved in the violence and not just the Poles. He will have to do a bit better than “I suspect and heard that there were further scenes of violence then immediately after the game.”
There is a very right wing strain in loyalism which seems to support racist behaviour – the waving of a Republican flag was extrmely provocative but can never be used as a cover for racist attacks.
P.S. Whenever (on Slugger) this is pointed out – it sparks off the most ridiculous series of arguements where various brands of Unionist inist that if loyalists are racist then republicans must be too.
The political element to this is that Gregory the Great (if he has not already done so) should be condemning all those involved in the violence and not just the Poles. He will have to do a bit better than “I suspect and heard that there were further scenes of violence then immediately after the game.”
There is a very right wing strain in loyalism which seems to support racist behaviour – the waving of a Republican flag was extrmely provocative but can never be used as a cover for racist attacks.
P.S. Whenever (on Slugger) this is pointed out – it sparks off the most ridiculous series of arguements where various brands of Unionist inist that if loyalists are racist then republicans must be too.
Chris,
Come to think of it, the alternative, that groups of unconnected individuals took it upon themselves to use the match and its unsavoury incidents as cover to launch attacks on ethnic minorities is actually a much worse proposition.
But we can all sleep soundly in our beds, because Jimmy Spratt condemned the attacks “illogical”. It’s remarkable how unionists mince their words when describing an attack emanating from their own electorate, within weeks of loudly accusing Sinn Fein of the same. I think that is something for people to reflect on; why exactly Jimmy Spratt doesn’t want to offend a certain section of the population.
CD
An commitment of almost Allisteresque proportions to find a deeper conspiracy. As someone who lives in the area (and had a mini-riot at his front door for a couple of hours) the impression I got was more a case of a brain-dead thuggish action leads to brain-dead thuggish reaction than paramilitary strategy – not that such a distinction makes any particular difference to the poor souls who have been attacked and intimidated.
campbell’s attempt to blame it all on the poles, is only confirmation of his one sided view and proves [if proof were needed] that he’s totally unfit and too out of his depth to hold any office. sadly proof hasn’t been needed on that score for a long time.
naturally, he avoided any mention of the coin throwing or the notorious famine song chants knowing that could only have come from his own side.
The views of a N.I supporter commenting on his own experiences on Saturday – from the N.I supporters forum.
However today I saw Northern Ireland fans beat a family to the ground, innocent Poles getting glassed, outside Hills several guys doing nazi signs attacking anything that moved and after the match some kind of Marshal law as paramilitaries took the area over with bats.
I dont give a f**k about the Poles, Im not Polish. Im ashamed at some of our fans, some nasty people using football to vent their own hate and inner frustration out to any unlucky victim.
to sammy mcnally msg 8…. all that happened on saturday only goes to prove my point. that is the some unionist pols and their loyalist fellow travellers don’t recognise any obligations to either the catholic community or equally outsiders to respect any of the said groups. the reason goes back all the way to partition.
As they see it n.i. was created for them as protestants first and foremost which in practice means no need to respect basic democratic or civil rights. so the foreigners used to be the catholics, but that view is not supported by their london masters, they now take the same attitude to the outsiders.
It’s that simple. SECTARIANISM IS REALLY ONLY COLOURBLIND RACISM
R.i.p. Artur Boruc
It’s sad to see that 7 years after Lennon left the Northern Ireland set-up, it is still considered okay to paint death threats to Celtic players by some. Gregory seems more concerned with an erigi flag. Maybe Zaluska should have played, Boruc should not have been expected to play under such circumstances. He has looked quite steady any time he came up against the hoops this season. I know the poles have a reputation for football violence as we have saw in major international tournaments. Surely a death threat to one of their most highly regarded players only serves to inflame the situation though. Why was our sports minister not more vocal and assuring polish fans the people who express these sentiments are morons? It is a monumental failure by a minister in charge of our sports. Is it any suprise that most nationalists want nothing to do with The N.I football team?
USA
FYI it was not Turgon who issued the red card – it was another moderator. Remember the ball not man rule.
USA
Thanks for the warning but I don’t think I have done anything but point out what the expected actions of somebody in Gregory’s position should have been. Could you imagine graffiti appearing in Drumcondra or the inner city saying RIP Berbatov from a liverpool fan or RIP petrov from some birmingham or west brom fan? It would not happen but I guess that is the problem with a section of the N.I. support. Many Rangers players have played against Ireland in the past and other than boo’s when they touched the ball there was nothing to talk about. I personally would not worry about boo’s during the game, it is part of football and I am sure the Holy Goalie is well used to it by now. On the other hand death threats being painted on walls when visiting another country on international duty is a disgrace on the host nation. Though sadly unsuprising when seven years earlier Neil Lennon had to retire due to a sickening section of the N.I support. It is a shame that a section of the N.I support seem to percieve it as a sin to play in the famous hoops when we think of great names like Bertie Peacock, Charlie Tully and Martin O’Neill although only as manager. These are names that would bring a smile to any true Celtic or Northern Ireland fan’s face. Even in the current squad we have Paddy McCourt and Niall McGinn. What are they to think when a player they train with (in McCourt’s case, when he is not injured) is seen as fair game from a section of their home support?
From the Independant
A spokesman for the Sandy Row Rangers Supporters Club dismissed the graffiti as “probably the work of kids – the height of nonsense, to be disregarded.”
He added: “I see they at least spelt Boruc’s name correctly, so I suppose that’s progress!”
Why make a joke out off this? It is not normal for kid’s to paint death threats about international goalkeepers on walls in the weeks preceding internationals. This does not happen anywhere else as far as i know especially not between two teams with as little history as Poland and Northern Ireland. I hope UEFA consider the indifference taken to a threat on a players life when considering the punishment for assaulting a match official. It may serve as a wakening up call. Ignorance will breed bigotry after all. But congratulations to the overwhelming majority of northern Ireland fans on an excellent result. It is just a sad fact for them that gregory campell, who is supposed to be in charge of providing support for football in Northern Ireland, chooses to ignore the threats against an opposing team’s goalie and the assault of a match official. Any grown up minister would have told these people they blacken the name of the decent N.I. supporter and do them no favours. They should not return to windsor park if their idea of support is throwing coins.
Peter Fyfe: They should not return to windsor park if their idea of support is throwing coins.
Good news, then -
http://news.bbc.co.uk/sport1/hi/football/internationals/7972237.stm
Let’s hope for a prosecution too.
reader
Great news for decent Northern Ireland fans, good to see swift action.
“Was Boruc booed by the crowd?”
Yes he was. As is every goalkeeper who plays at Windsor Park. It makes them do things like kick the air rather than the ball see?
“Did the NI fans really sing the ‘Famine Song’ popular with Rangers fans?”
No.
Ckekov
Regarding Boruc
The level of sectarian abuse was vitriolic (but not surprising)
http://timesonline.typepad.com/fanzine_fanzone/2009/03/and-to-think-th.html
I’ll go with the evidence of my own eyes and ears thanks.
Could you imagine graffiti appearing in Drumcondra or the inner city saying RIP Berbatov from a liverpool fan or RIP petrov from some birmingham or west brom fan?
Painted death threats against Rooney have appeared sporadically in Merseyside.
Not to excuse the racist/sectarian pricks who first painted them up, but what Mr Donnelly has omitted to inform us, is that a Sandy Row youth club took it upon themselves to later paint over the original crap.
oneill
That’s good to hear regarding the actions of a Sandy Row youth club.
Still, it doesn’t do your argument much good to suggest that there is a parallel between Rooney death threats and those directed at Boruc, given the number of attacks that followed on Polish- and other ethnic minority- individuals in the area.
Perhaps away fans need also be reminded of the need to be “sensitive to constitutional realities” at Northern Ireland soccer matches….
FD
I like that Allisteresque line, btw. However, the sheer number of incidents would suggest a level of planning, however crude- as I stated above, there is clear form in this regard, and we’re not exactly dealing with masterminds either.
i was watching both utv live and newsline last night, and could only come away with the impression that they had been taken over by the northern ireland supporters club. no mention was made on either programme of the chanting by n.i. fans of the notorious rangers song, normally directed at celtic fans but here adapted for the poles. in the case of utv, no mention was made of the coin throwing incident either. everything that happened was the polish fans fault according to utv. mind you, they have a long track record of this, but usually it’s bias against local catholics.
CD
Still, it doesn’t do your argument much good to suggest that there is a parallel between Rooney death threats and those directed at Boruc, given the number of attacks that followed on Polish- and other ethnic minority- individuals in the area
I don’t have an argument and haven’t drawn any parallels or made any justifications here.
Someone pointed out previously that death threats against players aren’t painted on walls.
They are.
CD
“However, the sheer number of incidents would suggest a level of planning, however crude- as I stated above, there is clear form in this regard, and we’re not exactly dealing with masterminds either.”
It doesn’t require the level of planning you seem to think to smash windows. Seeing what they hit and what they thankfully missed/didn’t hit undermines for me any claim of planning.
FD
And the numbers of houses targeted? Not to mention the previous form?
CD
When I see crowds of hoods standing in the street stoning peelers shouting how they are going to put all the Poles out while they are thankfully unaware that they happen to be directly outisde the homes of Polish families I have a difficulty in accepting a grand plan was in operation.
Yes there is undoubtedly form on this however since the series of attacks in the village area the loyalist groups seemed to be trying to tidy up their act on the issue of racism and makes it odd that they’d suddenly switch back to attacks.
I fully accept I could be wrong on this and maybe the IMC will comment in their next report but the impression I got as an eyewitness was not of planning.
FD,
I appreciate what you say about the non-complexity of stone throwing. But attacks on up to a dozen homes do not just occur spontaneously. And nor do a dozen vehicle hijackings.
Someone gave the word to this mob. Someone told them which houses to attack.
Painted death threats against Rooney have appeared sporadically in Merseyside.
Posted by oneill on Mar 31, 2009 @ 09:24 AM
Is Boruc from South Belfast? Is Rooney a visiting international footballer to Merseyside? I am not saying death threats against Rooney are okay but they are not similar to the Boruc threat alluded to in this thread. Fair play to the youth club that did clean up the graffiti, they showed they are more responsible than gregory.
Someone pointed out previously that death threats against players aren’t painted on walls.
Posted by oneill on Mar 31, 2009 @ 10:40 AM
I pointed out I could never recall death threats being aimed at opposing internationals when they came to visit. The fact I also mentioned death threats being painted about Neil Lennon shows you are trying to misrepresent me by ignoring this fact.
Peter Fyfe,
Your memory’s failing you, this is what you said:
Could you imagine graffiti appearing in Drumcondra or the inner city saying RIP Berbatov from a liverpool fan or RIP petrov from some birmingham or west brom fan? It would not happen but I guess that is the problem with a section of the N.I. support.
I am not saying death threats against Rooney are okay but they are not similar to the Boruc threat alluded to in this thread.
So, there’s a “hierarchy” of death threats now?
danielmoran msg 11. N. IRELAND FANS. OF COURSE, BUTTER WOULDN’T MELT. it’s glaringly obvious the the utv and bbc n.i. reporting on saturday’s events at the match were determined to keep under wraps any footage showing up n.i. fans, including the brawl in the bedford st. pub. anybody would think that this sectarian ifa and the linfield bigots had the support of most people living in the north. which is far from the truth.
you would expect nothing better from our so called culture miniter who has a long track record of this, but the broadcasters are supposed to be impartial. what a joke.
Oneill
Do you think it was just a coincidence I named two Bulgarian Internationals when Bulgaria were visiting Croke? How did this not trigger with you even after you quoted it?
I see you didn’t quote when I mentioned Lennon as this would show you are wrong in the context you took my statement.
So, there’s a “hierarchy” of death threats now?
There is a clear difference from somebody in Merseyside posting graffiti about somebody from the area and to what was posted about Boruc. In Boruc’s case, he was a visiting international Goalkeeper in the world’s most watched sport and Northern Ireland’s most watched sport. It was not an event of non-significance, for people in Northern Ireland to treat a visiting player like this is a shame on Northern Ireland. People in Liverpool can deal with Wayne Rooney graffiti, this is a blog on Northern Ireland politics and culture.
Do you think it was just a coincidence I named two Bulgarian Internationals when Bulgaria were visiting Croke? How did this not trigger with you even after you quoted it?
I see you didn’t quote when I mentioned Lennon as this would show you are wrong in the context you took my statement.
No, honestly, I got your drift exactly.
Two anonymous (and if you know for certain they’re NI fans, then you’ll also undoubtedly know their identity, go to the PSNI) scumbags paint up threats to two Celtic players- under that well-known legal principle of…what exactly? “Collective responsibility”?
That also makes me as a Northern Ireland fan, completely disinterested in the sectarian cesspool of Glasgow football, also a guilty party in this whole sorry affair.
Correct me if I’ve got that wrong.
And while you’re at, perhaps point out how you’d expect me/us to prevent such things happening in the future?
So, there’s a “hierarchy” of death threats now?
There is a clear difference from somebody in Merseyside posting graffiti about somebody from the area and to what was posted about Boruc.
I really must be thick, I still don’t get that “clear difference”.
Looking at it from a victim’s point of view, a death threat’s a death threat- whether you’re a fat,ugly Honorary Manc Barsteward or a fat, useless Celtic goalie, yes or no?
Oneil
Miss my point again, did we? I pointed out I respect the overwhelming majority of NI fans and realise they have nothing to do with this. I pointed I thought it was a disgrace somebody did not apologise on behalf of NI to a visiting International. It must be shown that the morons who paint graffiti like this do not represent anybody. While im at it, I will point out again it should be up to the minister in charge to condemn these actions and hopefully through leadership show that whoever painted the threats that their actions are not welcome.
And once again back to why I feel more need to be concerned with a death threat being painted on a wall in Northern Ireland against a visiting international who would be playing in the area. Internationals are meant to be a time of representing one’s country. It is about sportsmanship that one must respect opponents. Maybe it is hard for a Northern Ireland fan to understand when they see no problem with threats against their own players. I suppose it should not suprise me.
And if you got my drift exactly about the Bulgarian internationals, did you choose to ignore for the sake of arguing with me?
Miss my point again, did we?
No, having read this little latest gem, further confirmation I’ve understood you exactly:
Maybe it is hard for a Northern Ireland fan to understand when they see no problem with threats against their own players. I suppose it should not suprise me.
End of story from this end.
So the truth about Neil Lennon ends this arguement, I don’t see how but there we have it. Your arguement with me was about you misquoting, nothing else son. Don’t pat yourself on the back over this.
Looks like both sets of supporters were involved in the trouble in Witherspoons prior to the Polish game, although you can’t tell who threw the first punch.
Pretty sure it isn’t a Polish fan throwing the chair through the window at the end of the clip.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=d28_1238448226
think that guy with the chair at the end probably felt a bit of a tool. all the people fighting had been pushed out the door and he was left with an unused chair in his hands. the only manly thing to do ofcourse is to break something with it. if he just set it down he would be a big girls blouse. idiot.
NORTHERN Ireland goal scoring legend David Healy has called on attacks on local Polish people in the Village area of South Belfast to stop. A number of attacks have taken place since the trouble at the weekend.
He said: “It saddens me to hear of the attacks on Polish people. I sincerely hope those responsible, stop it immediately. In Northern Ireland we must learn from the past, violence is never acceptable. I fully support all the good Community Relations work going in this area. At a time when we are trying to qualify for a World Cup, perhaps it would be better if we could all see a bigger picture, that the Polish community and others in Belfast, are to be welcomed and their contribution to our social and economic prosperity acknowledged and encouraged.”
Maciek Bator, from the NI Polish Association, said: “David Healy is a true sportsman and great ambassador for Northern Ireland football. We greatly appreciate his message of support. Local Polish people living here in Northern Ireland were sickened by the actions of the Polish football hooligans who travelled here to cause trouble. We want to contribute to Northern Ireland in a meaningful way and we value the friendship and support of our neighbours.”
One Small Step Campaigner, Trevor Ringland added: “We want those from Poland and elsewhere to see Northern Ireland as their “second” team while living here and come to Windsor.”
PAT PRAISES SANDY ROW COMMUNITY CENTRE
27/03/2009
Northern Ireland Goalkeeping legend, Pat Jennings, today praised the community in Sandy Row and in particular the young people from the Sandy Row Community Centre for the quick response they took removing sickening graffiti in relation to the Polish Goalkeeper Artur Boruc.
The sinister words, “Boruc RIP”, appeared on walls in the Sandy Row area of South Belfast on Thursday ahead of the Northern Ireland V Poland World Cup qualifier at Windsor Park on Saturday. However young people from Sandy Row were quick to paint over the graffiti and condemn the culprit responsible for it.
Samuel Hillerby from the Sandy Row Youth Association said, “Whoever did this graffiti does not represent our community and is no Northern Ireland Football Fan. We painted over this because we want to welcome all the Polish Fans to Belfast and we want to make sure we show our community in the right light. We will be keeping an eye on the area to make sure there is no repeat”.
Northern Ireland Football legend Pat Jennings, said, “I would like to praise the Sandy Row Community Forum, all the Volunteers at the Sandy Row Community Centre and in particular the young Northern Ireland Fans from the area who were instrumental in painting over this sinister graffiti. The IFA’s Community Relations team has informed me of the good cross community and intercultural work that goes on in the area and I wanted to add my support to those people who are taking such positive action. The young people who ensured this sickening graffiti was painted out are a credit to their community and as true Northern Ireland Football Fans we value their support”.
Seems like those Nazi types might not have been all from Northern Ireland.
http://www.independent.co.uk/sport/football/internationals/world-cup-countdown-germany-braced-for-invasion-of-polish-hooligans-at-finals-472120.html
Realist
It is great to see Healy come out to condemn these attacks on polish people living Northern Ireland. Pat Jennings is also right to praise those young people from Sandy Row who painted over the graffiti. Northern Ireland need more young people like this. Pity one or two of our politicians did not act the same. Gregory would rather point to an erirgi flag and ignore any problems at home.
“Pity one or two of our politicians did not act the same”
Isn’t it just a pity.
Interestingly, not one senior politician bothered to turn up at the pre Poland match community event that was happening just as the thugs started smashing Wetherspoons about – it was at this community event that I got a call to tell me about the mayhem in the City Centre.
Whilst hooligans caused havoc, many Northern Irish and Polish fans were enjoying a “Respect Through Football” day at Crusaders FC.
Nothing but handshakes, and kind words, at that.
Realist
I am not sure why you are posting a three year old link about Polish hooligans. It was clear that a small number of hooligans travelled to cause trouble.
According to news reports following the incident at Witherspoon’s on Bedford Street, ‘Polish fans’ wrecked the bar. The footage shows an altercation between rival fans and I believe it started when a Northern Ireland fan assaulted a Polish fan. Polish fans went to protect their compatriot and a row ensued with a couple of chairs being thrown before the windows were broken by Northern Ireland fans. If the bar was badly damaged, it was not by Polish fans.
I am more concerned with the balance of reporting by the media regarding the trouble before and after the game. I saw no news reports on ordinary Polish fans with their kids being attacked by Northern Ireland supporters on the Lisburn Road, as was mentioned by Northern Ireland fans on their own website.
I commend those who organised the event at Seaview, although it must be disappointing that so few turned up at the meet-up.
Pat Jennings is obviously well aware of the cancer of intolerance of racism and sectarianism having been subjected to it himself by his own fans during his international career – so fair play Pat.
Mr Healy is also well aware how ‘playing a flute’ or talking about ‘famines’ can be seen as being inflammatory, perhaps he could have a word with Mr Feeney regarding his own inflammatory remarks before the Polish game, although the ‘Little Ibrox’ remarks certainly worked the crowd up to give Boruc a ‘sectarian night to remember’ & helping him to have a nightmare game – Result!
The fact that the UDA had mobilised in the Sandy row & Village areas on Friday prior to the game shows that pre-planning was part of the game plan for both sets of supporters.
Polish “fans” in action – October 2008. Slovakia.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gzv0UXRHteU
“worked the crowd up to give Boruc a ‘sectarian night to remember’ & helping him to have a nightmare game”
You should refer the comments attributed to Warren Feeney to a ceratain journalist in the Sunday Life – a friend of Warren Feeney’s.
You perhaps missed Warren Feeney’s comments to the Sunday Times in this regard?
Anyway – Artur is now an immortal Northern Ireland legend.
Look – these Northern Ireland fans think he’s top bloke!
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WNMnkAYjOUo
Ohhh – I bet that hurts!
Polish ‘fans’ in action – November 2008. Dublin, Ireland.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=5E-3XH5sq8g
No arrests, no fighting, no sectarianism or racism, no calls by home players to intimidate visiting players, no death threats painted on walls around Croke Park, no hooligans, no home supporters and paramilitaries organising and marshalling residents around croke Park to put ethnic Pole’s out of their homes, no Polish supporters (with their families) being set upon by home supporters on their way along the Drumcondra road..need i go on??
Not sure what your point is Realist ?
Chalk and Cheese !!