Should the Republic return to the Commonwealth?
There is so much bad cultural blood between Unionism and nationalism, it’s good to see a few areas of common good will emerge at the weekend, or indeed across this whole six nations rugby championship, when the Irish rugby team won the grand slam for the first time since 1948. Politically, of course, the Irish team is a chimera. It isn’t quite what it says on the tin. But it says enough to most of us to command our undivided loyalty not to mention affection. It may have been that thought that prompted a multi signature letter to the Irish Times yesterday, which pleads an old cause:
Ireland’s membership of the Commonwealth would, we are sure, be welcomed by the unionist community in Northern Ireland as a significant gesture of reconciliation. It would add to the collaborative framework established by the Belfast and St Andrew’s agreements. It would demonstrate unequivocally that the Republic has finally drawn a line under the troubled history of Anglo-Irish relations that led to Ireland’s self-exclusion from the Commonwealth 60 years ago. It would represent a further important step along the road to a pluralist Ireland in which different identities are recognised and respected, a country that celebrates its multi-cultural heritage and diverse history.
The response maybe something less than the signatories hoped for.
Could the case for a return to the Commonwealth (greatly republicanised since 1949) be couched as a form of leadership by Irish nationalism in the round? Would it be a viable act of reconciliation? It would certainly constitute a form of reconciliation, but would it be viable?
No one I’ve spoken to in the DFA relishes the extra burdens it would bring… Although having a separate Irish interface with Africa might be desireable, it’s not clear that the payback would be worth the extra investment… That’s not to say there is not a significant shortfall in the country’s diplomatic effort…
However the question of how nationalism (and/or vice versa) takes leadership on rapprochement with Northern Irish Unionists abides…
In the meantime the biggest obstacle to joining the Commonwealth may not be history or the bad blood, but for want to a reason to just to do it. Mark Sugrue’s letter in today’s paper just about covers it:
“Commonwealth citizens” have no extra rights of travel or work — for instance, they need to apply for a visa to visit member-state Australia, just as Irish people do. There are no extra rights on the movement of goods or capital — the Commonwealth is not a trade organisation. And despite its claim to support democracy, it includes many countries which fall far short of being functioning democracies.
It seems that the Commonwealth exists in name only and provides, at best, an excuse for an annual foreign junket for politicians. Until the Commonwealth finds a reason to exist, there is no reason for Ireland to join.
H/T to Conchubar who takes up his own case as Gaeilge…
Fealty
This just sums you up –
You wanna drag the Irish nation back into the the Bristish Commonwealth!
The fact that the 26 Counties have soveirgnty from Britain and the sacrafice that was taken to get it away from the link and governance with Britain seems to go unnoticed in the article.
Soon you’ll want us all to swaer an oath to the foreign crown – eh mick?
MADNESS!
Ireland did not self exclude from the Commonwealth. It declared itself a Republic, which at the time was not allowed due to the positon of the monarch.
At the moment, can’t see the point. It’s a gesture that can be saved until it is likely to have some significance or impact.
“The Republic” was never a member, so cannot “re-join”, Mick.
This issue always brings out the closet unionists. That letter was like a roll-call.
I enjoyed this response:
Join a club that excludes most of us from it’s leadership on religious grounds? Why ever not?
as part of a final settlement on IU it should be on the table, but not before.
The website does contain a lot of warm overtures towards republicanism, but, of course nothing offical.
“Ireland would be the only developed, Western member of the Commonwealth to have experienced both colonialism and a struggle for independence. When Zimbabweans speak of colonialism, the oppression of minority rule and the struggle to revive national culture, their experiences resonate with Irish history.”
In the end however, I think it would just be another avenue for unionism to deride the foundation of the Irish state and justify their own position or could unionism change to make rejoining an option?
“Ireland’s membership of the Commonwealth would, we are sure, be welcomed by the unionist community in Northern Ireland as a significant gesture of reconciliation”
As a Unionist I would be totally indifferent to it – it means nothing to me
The British government are even letting this pointless anachronism die through lack of funding, interest, and effort.
So that just leaves our Stockholm Syndrome Irish to blow the Commonwealth trumpet. I always know it’s spring when I hear its sound.
Sure why not? hell we’ve joined Stormont Policing and the millionaires club (we might be comon but we love our wealth)
“As a Unionist I would be totally indifferent to it – it means nothing to me”
Do you mean the Commonwealth means nothing to you John – or Ireland joining it?
Hi Dewi,
“Do you mean the Commonwealth means nothing to you John – or Ireland joining it?”
As another Unionist, I see no point in the Commonwealth. So, the Republic joining would be of no importance to me.
Its not gonna happen though is it? Sugrue is bang on – there is no real reason for it at all.
By the way – can we organise a whip round to buy Rory a dictionary? The state of his posts, man-dear! Bristish, soveirgnty, sacrafice – all in a few short lines!
(By the way Rory – how come you spell your name in the manner forced upon us by the perfidious oppresser, have you no pride?)
‘When Ireland left the Commonwealth in 1949 the other member-states hoped its departure would be temporary.’
Can this be cleared up – Did the Republic leave or was it ‘let go’?
Those signatures could have been shorted to…
‘Yours sincerely, Reform.’
Does anyone know why this was c/o UCC history department?
With that said, while I don’t see much economic reason to rejoin the commonwealth, it wouldn’t cause me to miss much sleep if we rejoined.
smcgiff,
Those signatures could have been shorted to…
‘Yours sincerely, Reform.’
Indeed.
Apparently Robin Bury has written a book now too, about “the Protestants in the south”. Informed, as ever, by his own fevered imagination, but I’m sure the unionists will love his lurid descriptions of the awful life they had to live, adrift amongst the papists. What a sad man he must be, pining away for a past that wasn’t really there and a future that never will be.
Circle
I spell RORY the way it is that I was christened
SOVEREIGNTY – is that ok for you!
Oh yes, let’s all join the Commonwealth, and whilst we are at it, let’s ignore the endemic corruption and looting that has taken place in two Commonwealth States; Nigeria and Kenya;
http://www.ngrguardiannews.com/news/article01/indexn2_html?pdate=220309&ptitle=Sordid Tales Of How Nigeria Was Looted
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2007/aug/31/kenya.topstories3
Hmm, then when one comes to think of it, perhaps this is the place for Ireland and the Cute Hoors after all…
Hi Rory,
I’m surprised you didn’t point out that “circles” is also “in the manner forced upon us by the perfidious oppresser”.
I would be more than happy to join a commonwealth where it does what it says on the tin, i.e. a confederation or association of nations where the wealth was held in common by all its citizens, but somehow I don’t think that this model fits that bill somehow.
Come to think of it, it really is a bloody cheek – a ‘commonwealth’ that has an hereditary monarch as its head, you might think they would at least have the good grace to blush every time they mention the name.
The reality is that in very post-colonial situation some reactionaries will try and drag you back under the colonalisers wing.
The websites link to the Reform movement who are anti-Irish language and who untimately wish to end Irish independence tells one all one needs to know.
The maintence of the ‘Republic’ as an independant state should be the priority of Irish nationalism.
I for one will never submit to the Queen.
Rory (SD):
Did you actually read my post?
“I for one will never submit to the Queen”. Get over yourself no one gives a toss who you “submit” to.
Rank amateurs by comparison Scara…
“the only multinational, multi-sport event apart from the Olympics”
That will alarm some people in Toronto, that not only are we proposing to lash out $2bn on the Pan Am Games (dopey call, Commonwealth Games would be a better one to bid for but anyway), but that these Games don’t even exist… The organisers of the Asian Games might also be concerned about being vanished by the grandees at the end of the letter to Madam Editor.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Multi-sport_event
Only if the commonwealth contains Boston.
(Way too clever a post for slugger)
dewi
I am reasonably warmed to the idea of a Commonwealth – ie as it is voluntary it probably keeps alive the better parts of Empire – British ideas on democracy, good governance and the Rule of Law in areas that sometimes have a tendency and even do descend into tyranny and chaos. It fosters the English language and assists international trade. Hence we probably have more influence in certain God forsaken places than we would have outside.
Indeed that influence is not just for the UK but for all members states and hence that would be a plus I suppose for the Republic and should not be dismissed lightly.
Having said that the ROI joining it means nothing to me in the way the authors of the letter have stated.
Indeed as an Irish Unionist at heart it is only a reminder of the split in the island.
I wouldnt object but I wouldnt get a warm fuzzy feeling either.
However the Commonwealth games is an opportunity for NI athletes only to compete on a bigger stage and I wouldnt want that interfered with.
Thanks Rory
WRT the original departure, both Ireland and India declared their intention to become republics in 1948, prompting a discussion in the Commonwealth about what to do, leading to the creation of a separate role of the Head of the Commonwealth. IIRC when a member becomes a republic its membership automatically lapses but it can apply to rejoin – a right exercised in 1949 by India but not Ireland.
Joining the Commonwealth isn’t on the political agenda. Indeed, if it is to be proffered that membership is required in order to bring a warm glow to the citizens of a foreign country, then we should put joining the Arab League, the World Zionist Organization, et al, on the same Table of the Howling Loons at which the idea is to be discussed.
This is typical of the pompous, condescending way that a lot of British and N.I. Unionists regard ‘the Irish’. Quotes like this (from the letter):
“.. important step along the road to a pluralist Ireland in which different identities are recognised and respected..”
really get my goat. The Republic of Ireland is just that – a republic – in which all citizens are equal, unlike the anachronistic ‘constitution’ of their beloved state, with its institutionalised bigotry.
The British Commonwealth (or whatever it’s name has been watered down to these days) is nothing but the ghost of something that was – a device to massage the egos of those who hanker after the glories of a long gone empire.
I would be more amenable to the idea of the Republic of Ireland joining (even if I don’t understand what advantage it would convey) if they instituted a rotating head, to replace the British monarch
I don’t think it’s proffered as a transition to a united Ireland (a sovereign, independent Irish nation-state), but rather as a transition to a United Kingdom. That is the wet dream of the signatories, and they have the advantage of a few hundred million of MI5s annual budget to promote it through the medium that agency deploys to exercise its control, i.e. purchased puppets in politics and the media.
Mick, this has got to be the silliest post you’ve every submitted to the website.
“Only if the commonwealth contains Boston.” Isn’t that what the policy wonks call the Anglosphere?
Fin ,
‘When Zimbabweans speak of colonialism, the oppression of minority rule and the struggle to revive national culture, their experiences resonate with Irish history.’
Up to a point but no post independence Irish Government has inflicted on it’s people what Zanu PF have in Zimbabawe . Nowadays it would not surprise me if there were Zimbabweans who might even prefer to return to the dark days of colonialism and eat – rather than having to starve under their ‘elected’ sovereign government.
Although a million people left the Irish Free State /Irish Republic from 1922 to 1960 in search of economic opportunity elsewhere i.e almost a third of the population these numbers pale beside those of Zimbabwe where some 5 million have fled starvation and economic chaos out of a population of 13 million.
I have no strong views on the Commonwealth one way or the other . If it helps our sportspeople and others why not ? We must be the only ‘english speaking country ‘ bar the USA not to be a member ? Membership of same should be judged on it’s practical merits . But rejoining as a ‘sop’ to unionist sentiment is and would be a nonsense imo.
Greenflag, I was only pasting from the website, and it was more their take on Irish history will interested me.
The responses on the Irish Time poll section are well funny!
Although Greenflag
I’ve not checked the figures but based on yours, that amoints to 38.5% vs you say almost a third (33.3%) so not a huge pile of difference. Also bear in mind that most Zimbabweans are going to neighbouring ‘friendly’ countries, unlike the Irish who went across the world or to their former colonial power.
I would love to see it – not for political reasons though. I would just love to see the Republic of Ireland sending its Athletes to the Commonwealth Games. I also think that once they are in it, the Irish will enjoy it.
From a political point of view, I dont know what the big deal is. The issue has nothing to do with Sovereignty. ROI is now part of the British Isles Council. It is also now a mature, independent, Nation which has plenty to contribute to and benefit from to the Organisation.
Absolutely not. What a dumb idea.
Why is it always nationalists who have to make concessions of goodwill to Unionists?
Moral pressure has no effect on the diehard unionists. It didn’t in 1914 when Redmond became a recruiting sergeant for the Empire without seeking any assurances on Home Rule in return (to pick one example), and it won’t now.
what, and give allegiance to the pampered, wacky Germans who pass themselves as the Royal Cabbage Family…
Will never happen.
Yeah, sure we’ll join. Right after the US joins.
Should Northern Ireland return to the Irish Free State?
Post the 1921 treaty Northern Ireland exercised it’s right to opt-out of Saorstat na Eireann. But times have changed. It’s no longer called Saorstat na Eireann, but just Ireland.
Northern Ireland’s membership of the Irish Republic would, we are sure, be welcomed by the nationalist community in across the island of Ireland as a significant gesture of reconciliation.
The time is right, surely, both moves could be made in tandem. Perfect.
The minute it would happen would change me from pacafist to gunman.
YES
Northern Ireland is in the Republic as ani fule no.
I have to agree with a previous poster, why is it Irish Nationalists who always have to make concessions and reassure Unionists. Articles 2 & 3 were sacrificed and the Unionist IFA want to deny Northern Nationalists their birthright by stopping young footballers playing for Ireland so this reaching out only goes one way. It is the revisionist Unionists who largely control the media in Dublin, Belfast & London that are pushing this. The thought of Knighthoods, baubles and psychophantic visits to Lizzy Windsor and her Germans/Greek/Danish family in Buck House has them all quivering and orgasmic, especially the Lorcans and Jemimas in Dublin 4 & Wicklow. Why would a largely Catholic country like the Republic want to join a club with an anti-Catholic sectarian head of state and bigoted constitution? Off with their heads, “Allons enfants de la patrie……”
Sure why not? hell we’ve joined Stormont Policing and the millionaires club (we might be comon but we love our wealth)
Posted by Gerry&Martin; on Mar 24, 2009 @ 01:36
PM
Aye,
We’re all ‘one community’ now according to McGuinness and doesn’t Mary Mac seize every opportunity to invite The Queen of England to Ireland ( thanks be to.. she is still refusing.). reminds me of the satirical song ‘Old mother England loves us still…)
County Limerick,
Not too clever for all of us…
But, face it, Massachusetts is a bit of a stretch to Dublin: http://www.mass.gov
Okay,
Apart from the bleedin’ obvious (ie Keiran and Rory (SD))… which of you stopped reading the post and following links after the headline?
Mick
This thread strikes me as a means of developing the accepted defeat of Sinn Fein with the Good Friday Agreement and developing that into a theme for Nationalism.
There wouldn’t be much left of the Nationalist party that suggested going back into the Commonwealth and that would be especially true of Sinn Fein.
It would not be regarded as negotiating from strength but as cowtowing to people who don’t seem to understand the depth of feeling there is in Nationist circles about this historical power who, after abusing people for so long, want them just to be friends to help their economy.
I’m with Rory (South Derry) in this as I think he has an appreciation of the matter. Sometimes it might be better to wait until Britian needs to join an Irish commonwealth of free peoples.
Post 23 was not mine. Mick please address this problem. Folks, who amongst you have visited my wonderful website?
Mick Could you shut poster 24 off at source.
It’s certainly not mine.