“a political logic at work” – redux
The BBC reports confirmation of claims from Republican Sinn Féin, noted in the comments zone here, that “one of the men being questioned about the murder of police officer Stephen Carroll has been refusing food since last week”.
A spokesman for Republican Sinn Fein said the man’s health was deteriorating. The police said he has been receiving daily medical attention. A PSNI spokesman added that arrangements were being made to let the man see his own doctor.
[Is that another legacy issue? - Ed] Perhaps.. Adds BBC report.
Six people being held in connection with the murders of two soldiers and a police officer in NI have launched a High Court challenge to the extension of their detention period.
Update As two others are released without charge.
Rory,
I’d love to see the details of the threat. John has yet to produce anything. Didn’t you notice that? He needs to put up or shut up.
JoeCanuck
You need to take into account the fact that Mr.O’Connell is prone to making wild claims and accusations.
Name one accusation of a wild nature I’ve made.
John has yet to produce anything. Didn’t you notice that? He needs to put up or shut up.
Reference to me praying to St Dympna, a saint decapitated for her faith.
You’re quite an operator, JoeCanuck. Do you have any worries about being the devil?
Rory,
I’m not sure why you have become fixated on this.
It is some ways away from your normal “stomping ground”. I do know that John thinks that I am a cheerleader for Mr. Adams and SF. Nothing could be further from the truth. Not that I support your cause either, of course.
Joe
So your a Stick?
Why I am fixated on this is PSF have to be put in their place and as you know I take EVERY opportunity possible!
Name one accusation of a wild nature I’ve made.
You make it so easy, John. Your accusation that I threatened you with beheading, for starters.
Rory(South Derry) the true story of the peace process has yet to emerge. It involves a discovery I made as a student in Galway in 1986, a year before the origins of the peace process are supposed to have come from. Whatever Sinn Fein says, they have been in troubvle since then and that is why they cannot go back to war. The story is as follows:-
Gerry Adams’ secret fear
I was a student at university in Galway this time twenty years ago when I had the most amazing spiritual experience that any human being could have. While writing an essay as an entry to the UCG Philosophical Society’s competition, I felt the most amazing sense of peace descend on me. I felt an absolute sense of love for all people and an overwhelming sense that I was loved too. I was filled with love.
My essay concerned two babies, whose nametags were switched at birth, and who grew up in families that opposed each other, one a republican and the other a loyalist. These two children ended up murdering their natural fathers in violent incidents during the Troubles. The moral of the story was straightforward, I felt, and in a philosophical sense it meant that all violence was futile and that sectarian violence was simply patricide – or a desire to simply end the human race.
But the feeling of love would not go away after I wrote the essay. I felt that I was in the midst of something really profound and my mind began to search for what that overwhelming significant matter could be. Then it struck me.
It was like lightning struck me. It was to do with the other part of a calculation a friend had shown me in my days at St Columb’s College as a fifteen year old. That calculation worked out the name of Ian Paisley at 666. I had checked the references in the Book of Revelation at that time and I knew that there were to be two beasts.
“Gerry Adams! It has to be!” I roared to myself in the kitchen of the small flat where I had my experience of great love and peace.
I set down the same numeric alphabet, and calculated Gerry Adams’ name at 666. It was the icing on the cake. I now had an equation to back my essay up. My thesis, which in large part was the SDLP thesis, was being validated by God.
I never had any doubt that the SDLP thesis was Christian in orientation, or that the republican campaign of violence was evil in orientation. But now I had the proof. I tried it out on a few people, mainly Sinn Fein members at UCG and they were very interested (and worried). It seemed that I had something on them.
But it only impacted on them. It never impacted on others because others didn’t consider themselves to be doing anything wrong, as opposed to the Sinn Fein members who were assisting the IRA in their campaign of violence. I was left in no doubt that my discovery had gone straight to Gerry Adams.
It wasn’t long before I heard from Sinn Fein. Others may make up excuses but I know that the attack on our home, smashing several windows, in August 1986 was a warning from Sinn Fein. But it was too late. Their war was over. I had taken out their king and all good chess players will know that that is the game over.
Within months of that time, Gerry Adams was sending signals through Fr Alec Reid that he was prepared to end the IRA campaign. My experience had sown the seeds of doubt in Adams’ mind and unnerved him completely. He didn’t want to the Antichrist. More accurately, he didn’t want to go down in history as the man who was regarded as the Antichrist.
In Spring 1987, a year after my experience, the peace process began in earnest with talks between John Hume and Gerry Adams arranged through Fr Alec Reid, and so the history books record a rational explanation of the ending of the IRA campaign.
No-one – especially not republicans – really wants to contemplate the possibility that something got to Gerry Adams to make him decide finally, after months of dithering, to give up the violence.
That something was God. Gerry Adams was confronted with what he had become by God – through me, his instrument – in 1986 and he very quickly developed a yellow streak. They say that Gerry Adams was never all that hot about the war and that has led to all kinds of speculation that he was a top level agent of the British and so on.
But I can end that speculation. Gerry Adams finally came to the conclusion that the war had to end when he realised that history will record him alongside Ian Paisley as the one of the two beasts of Revelation.
God had hit the Republican Movement at its weak point. It was thought that Sinn Fein was impenetrable because of its egalitarian structure which meant that Adams could have been replaced if got to. But the republicans had made a big mistake. They had relied heavily on Adams to fight their case in the public domain so he came to matter more than all the others. God got to Adams and it was checkmate.
JoeCanuck
You make it so easy, John. Your accusation that I threatened you with beheading, for starters.
Someone using your nom de plume referred to St Dympna? Are you denying that you made this reference?
Rory,
I have to admit a bit of ignorance. I know what a stick is (a boomerang that won’t come back) but I don’t know what a Stick is.
John
It all sounds a Bit Harry Potter to me but what is evident now is that Marty Mc is the Unofficial Leader of PSF.
The Grizzly had to wait to Marty Mc denounced us as Traitors before he could say anything of substance.
Now I know why you write books (your a bit of a JK Rolands)
But anything that puts PSF in there place must ALWAYS be applauded mo chara!
Reference to St Dympna? And you interpret that as a threat to behead? That’s a lot more paranoid than usual, even for you. I think you need a wee bit of counselling.
Joe
A Stick is a Workers Party Supporter
joeCanuck
So you made the reference after I made the reference to Sinn Fein leader Gerry Adams.
That’s a lot more paranoid than usual, even for you.
Bad faith. When have I ever been paranoid? Stop covering your tracks, Joe. We know you are.
Rory (South Derry)
Dr Seamus Hegarty’s unwitting intervention in writing to me to inform me that he would seek to have a professional theologian look at my book seems to have unnerved the Republican Movement.
It seems that my attempt to get press coverage was a signal to them to try to underscore Gerry Adams’ position and make it seem unassailable by using their influence with dissident republicans who then attacked Massereen Barracks. The PSNI officer was the icing on the cake, in their perverse terms, keeping Adams even more sweet.
Again the only (much delayed) coverage I get for the story came today (Friday) in the Derry Journal and today there also suddenly appears a letter in the Irish News from a Cork priest, belittling Mark Durkan and the SDLP (and our support), and supporting the Sinn Fein position that the IRA violence of the Troubles was justified. My coverage was delayed in my opinion to give them time to get an opposing measure in place and it came today in the form of Fr Tomas Walsh, a missionary priest and long-distance revolutionary.
John
So the top and bottom of it is a collusion between PSF and the Catholic (Mafia) – Sorry Church
I have had a long hard look at your website and you certainly are an interesting Character.
I especially like your comments on the sacrafice of the Hunger Strikers and totally agree now years later that they were used by the gangsters in PIRA/PSF
Maybe you could help me expose some very serious revelations about Marty Mc and one other Senior Derry City Provo???
Rory,
A Stick is a Workers Party Supporter
In that case, no, I am not a Stick. In fact I’m not a member of any political party. When there is an election, I vote for the candidate whom I think can best represent my views. Unfortunately, that in many cases has led to me simply spoiling my vote. I always do vote, though, to stop anyone else stealing my vote.
Good man Joe
You do your bit for Ireland
Perhaps if I may lend some clarity to the discussion (God forbid..).
St. Dymphna, whose feast day is May 15 is the patron saint of those who suffer from mental illnesses and nervous system disorders, epileptics, mental health professionals, happy families, incest victims, and runaways….most of the population of N.Ireland, some might say.
Regarding the thirty years of conflict, I have to say that one thing especially sticks in my mind. I remember the brutality and sectarian viciousness that the RUC demonstrated when they used to attack the mourners at Republican funerals. I contrast this with the respect shown to the funeral of the policeman Carroll, a member of the Tactical Support Group, when he was being buried. And I muse to myself, in his years of service in the RUC, was he ever a part of any of these barbaric attacks on Republican funerals? Just a thought.
Scaramoosh
St. Dymphna, whose feast day is May 15 is the patron saint of those who suffer from mental illnesses
THat’s all JoeCanuck needed to state. That he didn’t is suspicious.
suspicious ?
That paranoia just won’t go away, will it John?
joeCanuck
I pray for you because you are obviously mixed up and in need of help. One minute you’re everybody’s friend, the next minute you’re trying to discredit me.
Do you ever have thoughts that you’re really evil? If you have try joining a prayer group and if that doesn’t work, try therapy.
I once met a man who thought he was the son of the devil. Are you a Derry man?
Rory(South Derry)
Do know any senior republicans in Derry. I’ve heard the rumours that they’re engaged in buying property and feathering their own nests. I’d rather they didn’t corrupt themselves but it creates faultlines which will eventually tear them apart.
I contrast this with the respect shown to the funeral of the policeman Carroll, a member of the Tactical Support Group, when he was being buried. And I muse to myself, in his years of service in the RUC, was he ever a part of any of these barbaric attacks on Republican funerals? Just a thought.
Posted by Pancho’s Horse on Mar 22, 2009 @ 09:13 PM
Very likely he was. I remember those attacks all too well myself.
John
I know several Snr Republicans in Derry City who have amassed major Property Portfolios!
The capitalism that seaps from these people now does not reflect the original socialism that they set out with!
The Greed is terrible to see!
They are now what I call the Provo Mafia – with the X5′s parked outside.
No, John. I am not a Derry Man. Funnily enough, though, I did go to the same college as you. Hated being physically abused by those hung over priests.
Rory (South Derry)
Undoubtedly so. The Derry Journal produced an article that’ll keep them on their knees for a long while.
The book it refers to names Gerry Adams as the beast of Revelation.
How would that go down with Sinn Fein people you know?
I know several Snr Republicans in Derry City who have amassed major Property Portfolios!
The capitalism that seaps from these people now does not reflect the original socialism that they set out with!
The Greed is terrible to see!
They are now what I call the Provo Mafia – with the X5’s parked outside.
Rory,
Do you not live in a eight-bedroom house on five acres of prime land?
I contrast this with the respect shown to the funeral of the policeman Carroll, a member of the Tactical Support Group, when he was being buried. And I muse to myself, in his years of service in the RUC, was he ever a part of any of these barbaric attacks on Republican funerals?
pancho & hartshill
Shame on you! The dead cannot defend themselves (and Catholics cannot mount sectarian attacks on Catholics)
JoeCanuck
So that’s where your hatred of me comes from. You think I’m endorsing every priest because in a former life I founded the Church.
I am certainly not endorsing every priest, but you must be a fair bit older than me and maybe a boarder to have been near those abusive priests. The last of the hardcore was gone by the time I was there.
I have a job to do, Joe, and that is to lead everyone to paradise, roughly defined as a good world. I cannot get there without undermining Gerry Adams, Ian Paisley and Britain, as the trinity of evil in this sphere.
All things are possible once we’ve dealt with this trinity of evil.
Picador
The 8 Bedroom House and the land has been in my family for 80 years!
John
Every opportunity to knock PSF must be exploited fully when/where ever possible
John,
I have no idea where you got the notion that I hate you. I don’t hate you or anyone. Mind you, there are some people I don’t like (that doesn’t or couldn’t include you because I have never met you). I don’t hate the Catholic church either.
Yes, I was at St. Columb’s 20 years before you. Glad to hear that that nonsense had been got rid of by the time you got there. I had some great teachers, who have to take some credit for my success in life; some of them were priests.
Picador, I did not accuse just muse and unionists CAN mount sectarian attacks on nationalists and took great delight in so doing via their ‘state’ forces.
unionists CAN mount sectarian attacks on nationalists
That would be political then.
It seemed to me that you were not too subtly justifying that policeman’s murder by implying that he was involved in attacking republican funerals.
Which is sick really.
picador
catholics CAN mount sectarian attacks on catholics. if there happens to be a token taig within a Loyalist/Unionist/State murder group, does that mean that the catholic is not part of a sectarian attack, against catholics.
people of colour can perpetuate racism against people of colour and women can perpetuate sexism against women, and so catholics can perpetuate anti-catholic sectarianism. The northern irish statelet is a sectarian entity and those who defend that statelet with arms cannot claim innocence when killed defending it.
the dead militaman may not be able to defend himself, but you can be sure that his colleagues will, in the best way that they know how, by trampling over the rights of the catholic community.
ask yourself this, how many times have the psni used their powers to detain loyalists for 14 days without charge. i’m sure there will be a token percentage of loyalists who see these powers being used in the future, as there was with internment, but face it, we still have a sectarian statelet and a sectarian policeforce, regardless of the higher number of catholics in it.
and the Tactical Support Group were amongst the worst of the sectarian state sponsored paramilitary murder groups. their record stands for itself.
with so many years’ service militiaman carroll had blood on his hands for sure. not that those who killed him knew that, but it is interesting to note that those who are so upset at anyone attacking dead state killers are happy enough to lock up those who have merely been accused of the act. sectarian aplogists!
Mr Carroll could have joined the Garda. He made his choice.
Mr Carroll could have joined the Garda
Why don’t you talk to the widow of Garda Jerry McCabe, who was killed by armed Provisional IRA bank robbers, about that.
the dead militaman may not be able to defend himself, but you can be sure that his colleagues will, in the best way that they know how, by trampling over the rights of the catholic community.
Sinn Féin stood on a platform of suppoerting the PSNI as did the SDLP. Between them these parties received the overwhelming support of ‘the Catholic community’. Anti-polcing republicans stood and received a derisory vote, trailing in behind the Worker’s Party in West Belfast.
Those who shoot police officers as they carry out their duties (such as coming to the aid of a woman whose house had been attacked) are trampling on the rights of ‘the Catholic community’ and indeed everyone’s rights including those dastardly Protestants who don’t deserve any.
Sectarian apologist indeed!
Interesting to note that a couple of weeks after the event the ‘sneaking regarders’ are beginning to crawl out of the woodwork.
so if one person’s rights are trampled over, is it right to trample over the rights of eleven people with apparently no connection to the killing? (police are awaiting results of dna tests before they have to admit that the link isn’t there!!). if that kind of policing continues, then it won’t be long before those who were persuaded to support the police realise that they were duped!
the debate here is not whether the killers were justified (i don’t think that debate would ever get off the ground in this, or any other public forum), it is whether the state response is justified, and i’ve yet to hear anyone putting forward a decent analysis to say that it is.
so, picador, are you refusing to condemn or condone 14/28/42 day detention? or have you joined the ranks of the “sneaking regarders”
If the PSNI have stopped interviewing them, as claimed in Court today, and are now just holding them while forensic tests are being done, then I think that is totally unjustified.
picador, when one sect attacks another sect this is called a sectarian attack. The sect may or may not be religious.I have little regard for the colonial police here and even less for the Roman Catholics in their midst.However I do not think the latest killings will take us anywhere. There is also no point in referring to the poor showing of the ‘anti-police faction’ in past elections. That was then and this is now.
Does anyone think there might be a link between the seeming increase in militant Republican disident types running about Slugger and the demise/outing of that other discussion board as a Sinn Fein front?….it looks as though the wardens may have left the enclosures open when they left…..
or maybe in the face of the militant unionism of the new political order, more people realise that militant republicanism actually provides a realistic and viable politcal alternative, and so there are just more of us about??
the first two arrested (brendan mcconville and the 17 year old youth) have been released without charge
the others will now be released over the next few days. the police will pick one or two to charge just for appearances and the cases against them will fall apart when they come under any real kind of scrutiny, probably after considerable periods on remand. its the same old sectarian story.
Is one of the dudes still on some kind of hungerstrike?
Earnan
So in summary a chara the Brit Intelligence services have not got a clue who pulled the triggers!
Even the provos can not finger the ASU members who do it!
So much for branding these people criminals and thugs – & they cant even catch them!
anti-sectarian militiaman:
ask yourself this, how many times have the psni used their powers to detain loyalists for 14 days without charge. i’m sure there will be a token percentage of loyalists who see these powers being used in the future, as there was with internment,
Token percentage ? All the senior loyalists were lifted, including most of the UDA and UVF leadership. Michael Stone, Johnny Adair, John White, Shankill Butchers, etc etc. Broadly speaking the police were substantially more successful at getting rid of loyalists than they were of republicans.
but face it, we still have a sectarian statelet and a sectarian policeforce, regardless of the higher number of catholics in it.
I’m not facing it. The arguments of the civil rights days are over and done with. Discrimination is mainly a memory; it’s a headline news item when there is a case.
The only war that is still being fought is the one between those who wish to overturn the freely expressed will of the Irish people, and those who wish to uphold it. There is no elected politician anywhere on this island who wishes to overturn it. Most of those standing for election who have expressed your view have lost their deposits.
sectarian militia man
so, picador, are you refusing to condemn or condone 14/28/42 day detention? or have you joined the ranks of the “sneaking regarders”
If you took the trouble to read my previous comments on this thread you would see that I had called for these people to be either charged or released.
***
Does anyone think there might be a link between the seeming increase in militant Republican disident types running about Slugger and the demise/outing of that other discussion board as a Sinn Fein front?
There are some sad people who just wallow in victimhood and the lust for revenge that comes with it. It seems that a load of them are after arriving on this site. It’s a pity that they can’t seem to grow up.
when one sect attacks another sect this is called a sectarian attack. The sect may or may not be religious.
But in the context we live in it invariably is.
I have little regard for the colonial police here and even less for the Roman Catholics in their midst.
Sectarianism – of the religious kind – seems to be a big thing with you.
There is also no point in referring to the poor showing of the ‘anti-police faction’ in past elections. That was then and this is now.
Ah but there is. Because what you call the colonial police are in fact operating on a democratic mandate supported by the an overwhelming majority of citizens here. I look forward to a ‘dissident’ candidate standing in the forthcoming Euro elections so that they can be humiliated yet again!
Picador
The Real Republican Agenda does not involve Capitalist Elections – What will they achieve?
The Occupied 6 & the 26 are only puppets on Brit and Euro strings!
Its about the armalite – Stick your Ballot Box!
Mi5 Fealty
Why dont you just take the whole thread dont you know you want too!