“We’ve never been near Irish republicans..”
Along with the background articles in the Irish Times noted previously, it’s worth mentioning the reported disturbances in Craigavon, and elsewhere, following the murder of Police Constable Stephen Carroll – and more reported tonight. Meanwhile there’s been plenty of TV coverage today of a meeting between the Lord Mayor of Belfast, Sinn Féin’s Tom Hartley, and UPRG spokesman Frankie Gallagher. Interestingly the Irish Times reported that Frankie Gallagher told RTÉ
“We are going to meet the Lord Mayor of Belfast .. we’ve never done this before. We’ve never been near Irish republicans or ‘Shinners’.”
Hmm.. Not quite “never been near”, Frankie.. Btw, how is that decommissioning going?
TAFKABO, I’ve always had my doubts about religion, not helped by finding out that the CoE held quite a few BAE shares, Army Chaplains also seem to be a contradiction, not to mention the head of state double jobbing as the head of the states religion, and one person having his own religion and political party, well, thats just scary.
Been honest, if putting religion into its proper place is all it would take to swing people around, I don’t think to many people would object.
Consider it done, whatelse is needed?
TAFKABO
With all due respect, and I know that you’re a bit of an egomaniac, but the Church is not the problem for most unionists.
It’s really about overcoming their own prejudices against what they feel to be something inferior to what they have. By the time we have bent over backwards facilitating you, we’ll have a queue of people with other barriers in the way of a UI.
I would say that trying to facilitate the untypical unionist is as much of a waste as trying to talk to the dissidents.
Yes I do think it is DUP scaremongering suggesting SF will top the poll in Europe or be the largest party in Stormont
No it isn’t. It’s quite possible that the Shinners will top the poll in June in less Allister really, really, bombs. It’s unlikely they are going to become the largest party in Stormont any time soon (the DUP lead is a hefty enough 8 seats), but if Unionism doesn’t lose its overall majority in 2011 it will in 2015.
Welcome to the era of permanent no-one in a majority status.
Sammy, I’d love to see it, and I’d love for them to spend the political capital it would produce, but I’m not sure it’ll happen this time round. But yes, barring disasters, its only a matter of time.
But then, nationalist success only seems to push unionism further to right and farther from engaging, so God knows what big rock they would scurry under should results go SF’s way.
Been honest, if putting religion into its proper place is all it would take to swing people around, I don’t think to many people would object.
I was speaking for myself Fin, I don’t have a mandate to speak for all Unionists.
Consider it done, what else is needed?
I don’t think that question can be answered because we don’t know what the future holds, especially in today’s economic climate.
It’s entirely possible that Marx was right and capitalism is in the process of self destructing, who knows what is going to emerge from the rubble?
TAFKABO
With all due respect, and I know that you’re a bit of an egomaniac, but the Church is not the problem for most unionists.
It’s really about overcoming their own prejudices against what they feel to be something inferior to what they have. By the time we have bent over backwards facilitating you, we’ll have a queue of people with other barriers in the way of a UI.
The problem with your rhetoric John, leaving the ad hominems aside is that you’re playing the same card as the UUs did with their disasterous decent people vote for us strategy.
tryig to convince people that they should be a united Ireland because frankly, they’re not fit to run things on their own is unlikely to ever succeed.
I don’t need you to bend over backwards to faciltate me, don’t foel yourself that you’re doing me any favours. Oh and by the way, if Robbo really believed that the SDLP would do a better job of tangling with the DUP, he’d never have admitted it publicly, he was playing mind games with the Shinners and it’s a bit embarrasing to see how easily the SDLP fell for it.
TAFKABO
It really does seem to be the case that you’ve been in France too long. Any independent observer, not one given to wishful thinking in relation to seeing Sinn Fein in Government, would see that they have put up a terrible show, and are an embarrassment to Nationalists. Ian Paisley junior didn’t need to say anything about that, but he knows that his party has humiliated Sinn Fein on major issues and relied on the fact that Sinn Fein are stuck and can’t do anything about it because they have no alternative to government with the DUP.
I have no problem criticising both the DUP and Sinn Fein for their double act has triggered the recent violence.
TAFKABO, your thoughts are similar to many people not only unionists regarding religion, as I mentioned earlier the status of religion and religous leaders in the UK is disturbing, as a Catholic there are things I find deeply offensive in both the CoE and CoI articles of faith, primarily the references to the Pope been the anti-christ, also the public declarations by certain individuals that all catholics go to hell, also the ‘alledged oath’ of the OO regarding attitudes towards catholics,and although I am not aware of similar canons within the catholic faith, or within religous organisations in the south, and to be fair I think there is a willingness to change as evident by the adoption of a neutral christian ‘time to reflect’ theme with the Angelus after complaints from the leaders of unionism.
Withregards to everythingelse its a fairly onesided conversation, SF are ridiculed for saying they want to build an Ireland of equals, and the Irish government is ignored when it says that unity will only come through persuasion
The warnings that rory puts out about a shift to the dissidents should be heeded. I don’t believe it’s the case that the dissidents were always there, in fact I believe that there is a dynamic at work whereby lads are drawn to the dissidents due to a number of factors:
e.g. frustration at lack of nationalist progress,
economic issues,
attitude of local ‘republican’ leaders,
attitude of loyalist and British politicians,
perceptions of effectiveness of new groups,
reaction of ‘crown forces’ etc.
So this business of a ‘tiny minority determined to drag us back to the troubles’ is not really the story, though it suits the soundbite merchants.
Rory is of course correct when he states that the IRA forced the Brits to talk due to the English bombing campaign. In weak moments, they will admit it. But that’s not the point IMO. OK, it forced concessions, and a grudging respect, and Nationalists (all of them) gained status, but was it all worth it? Was their an easier way?
Their is a dynamic at work which leads to people marrying their neighbours, and Ireland is an island. Folk with names like Cowen, Adams, Magennis have all ‘changed sides’, maybe a few times.
All violence does is drag people back into their ancient Orange and Green redoubts.
There is only six degrees of separation between you