The BBC are reporting that soldiers were fired on during a drive by shooting at the Massereene Army base in Antrim. Unconfirmed reports said one person was feared dead and five others wounded, but it is not clear if they were civilians or military personnel.
Update:
The BBC are now reporting two dead and up to five injured whilst UTV suggest two soldiers have been killed and four people (two soldiers, two civilians) have been injured.
I’ve been catching up on some reading, recently. Most pleasantly surprised by John Drennan’s latest opus from Gill and Macmillan, Cute Hoors and Pious Protestors… It’s early days yet, but I was struck by this paragraph, part of a dissection of Fianna Fail near the beginning: One of the more fatal consequences of our colonial [...] read our review »
Colin Neill’s first novel Turas peeks into a world in which many Ulster Protestants feel uncomfortable. It’s 2020 and the Irish unification that unionists and loyalists confidently predicted would never happen has become a reality. President Adams is ensconced in Phoenix Park. The newsreader reported that … a short ceremony at Stormont had confirmed the [...] read our review »
Extract from Greg McLaughlin and Stephen Baker: The Propaganda of Peace: The Role of Media and Culture in the Northern Ireland Peace Process. Bristol: Intellect Books. 2010. Political opponents Ian Paisley and Martin McGuiness were confirmed as First Minister and Deputy First Minister of a new executive in May 2007, closing yet another chapter in [...] read our review »
Well I really did feel the hand of history on my shoulder tonight.
Jone,
I took it down of course. Busy trying to report what I’m picking up, Dont have time to keep house.
Statements from Robinson: he is postponing trip to America. Donaldson remarksabove McCrea on the scene; Thomas Burns on the scene.
Not heard anything from Alliance UUs or Sinn Fein…
There’s a line from Ford on the BBC
David Ford, the leader of the Alliance Party, said it was “inconceivable” that the attack could have been carried out by anyone other than dissident republicans.
“The important thing is that we must not see politics and the peace settlement that we have, fragile though it is, destabilised by this kind of action,” he added.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/7930837.stm
SF’s last statement on their site:
The Sinn Féin leadership met in Dublin this afternoon to sign off on Sinn Féin’s Job Creation proposals for getting Ireland back to work which are due to be released later next week. They also discussed the revelation that PSNI Chief Constable Hugh Orde has requested the deployment of British Special Forces to the North.
Speaking from Dublin Mr. Adams said:
“There can be no place for so called British Special Forces within any civic and accountable policing structures. People in Ireland know only too well how these particular groups choose to operate; Sinn Féin and its members have on countless occasions been targeted by these groups in collusion with Unionist murder gangs; as have many others across Ireland.
Sinn Féin has spoken with the Chief Constable Hugh Orde and conveyed to him in no uncertain terms our opposition to this deployment and indeed the manner in which this has entered the public domain.
Nothing since the attack though…
Gerry and Martin must be lauging/sniggering up their sleeves, while pretending this is all wrong, etc etc.
To hell with Stormont, the Army need to respond quickly. SF are the people responsible. Hopefully they will bear the response. from whatever quarter.
What can I say, This is a very sad time for the victims’ families,The vile murderous scumbags who did this disgrace the very name Irish whether rira or cira they should abandon any claims-they have no place in an Ireland that I want to belong to.
Driftwood,do not fall into the trap,I hope loyalists will not retaliate,What is needed is ,for all of us who support law and order,to ensure that the police have all our co-operation in putting this shower of shite behind bars.
Driftwood’s comments were rightly removed, no one needs that. I have had debates with him/her in the past and a few things have been said in anger because a few drinks have been taken. I am prepared to accept that this might have been one of those occasions. This was a disgusting violent attack in Antrim and I cannot condemn it strongly enough. I also heard Kevin Toolis’s interview on Radio 5 live and winced a bit. He is very clued in on Republicans and is basically saying that the Provos have no control over any dissident Republican activity as they cannot prevent it. He says that a new militant Republican movement is building and the past is repeating itself. That is worrying. Where do we go from here? It’s like groundhog day. You get that awful feeling again.
Army Rumour Service thread
http://www.arrse.co.uk/cpgn2/Forums/viewtopic/t=118238/postdays=0/postorder=asc/start=0.html
Lurig
Before the usual suspects lose the run of themselves they should realise that the vast majority of Nationalists, and I would imagine mainstream Republicans, want no part of this. It solved nothing for 35 years and will solve nothing for another 35.
I agree completely. This is a disaster but one we were always likely to have to face. Anybody who has information about this attack should give it to the PSNI. You can’t be for the Agreement and not against the dissidents.
Driftwood
You are the flip side of the coin that allows things like tonight to happen.
Do you really believe that any sizeable portion of Sinn Fein members / supporters will condone tonights events?
If that is the world you live in, I recommend that you get back in your time machine and return to the 1960′s.
Half the problem here is people moving on the imagined next stage… we don’t need that from ANYONE! At this stage. Burns has said the Cheif Constable must be right…
Mick
You are going to gave to assert control here. Again Driftwood says “SF are the people responsible. Hopefully they will bear the response. From whatever quarter”. If that is not an invite for the Bacardi Brigadiers to vent revenge I don’t know what is? Driftwood you are a troll.
Ambulance chasing returns!!
It seems very few have any interest in the victims.
‘To hell with Stormont, the Army need to respond quickly. SF are the people responsible. Hopefully they will bear the response. from whatever quarter’
The Driftwood fella, seems to be on the ‘third force’ gargle.
He almost seems pleased. No man playing intended.
I hope those injured recover and the families of those who died are comforted.
Just leave the point scoring for now.
You fecking started it Lurig!! (comment 21, page 1)
I am going to have to go to bed, is what I am going to have to do. If I cannot trust either of you to behave like grown ups, I’ll ban the pair of you so I can at least sleep easy.
Good thing there’s Sky and the BBC because apparently the biggest story on RTE News’ coverage right now is the appointment of an administrator to the diocese of Cloyne. Someone give Donnybrook a ring and see if anyone’s awake down there.
Unfortunately it is a price to pay for the “normalisation” of society that this sort of thing is so much easier, I’m surprised it took the dissidents so long to realise that it’s not the ’90s any more, bombs are no longer required. With the eradication of the physical army presence on the streets, no helicopter cover and a much more relaxed security situation, the gunman is into his own again.
I fear we will be seeing more of this sort of stuff, what on earth could a patrol car full of policemen do if confronted by a determined group of shooters? Is the only alternative to go back to high visibility security, I really hope not.
Meanwhile condolences to the families of the victims and hope for a speedy recovery to the injured is the appropriate response.
Lurif/Bill.M
I can only react to events as they happen.
Of course there should be no idiotic reaction to tonights events. 24 hours should shed light. I, like you, hope this is the last kick of a dying animal. But it is impossible not to be angry with those who said, don’t wory, it’s all under control, no need for the SRR whatever…
Different scenario now.
One thing worth noting is that the PSNI have made a statement that the Pizza van was not part of the attack. We have one very unconfirmed report that in fact one or two of the victims may have been in the van. Perhaps that’s one reason why there has been no claim for this…
No10 statement from the Observer
Downing Street added in a statement: “This is a terrible incident that we utterly condemn and the Prime Minister’s thoughts, first and foremost, are with the families of those killed and with those seriously injured in this attack.
“In recent days action has been taken to increase security in Northern Ireland. This is because of the increased threat from those who, even at this late stage, wish to ignore the wishes of the overwhelming majority … and attempt to derail the peace process.”
http://www.guardian.co.uk/uk/2009/mar/08/northern-ireland-army-base-shooting
If it is paramilitaries, it’s interesting that they attacked the army when Orde was warning about them targeting the police. I wonder if that change of targets was a response to the anger generated by his decision to bring SRR back to NI and an attempt to capitalise on it? I suppose we’ll know when the inevitable statement admitting responsibility is released.
One other question which I don’t seem to see covered anywhere and which someone might know, are the troops in Masserene from a locally recruited unit? It might be have unfortunate significance if they are.
When I heard about this incident my initial reaction was that it was a predictable (though shocking) response to this week’s announcement that Special Forces troops would be used to monitor dissent republicans.
But is clear from the nature of the attack that it has been in the planning for some time. The timing of the attack may have been brought forward in response to Hugh Orde’s announcement but this attack was going to happen anyway.
The best thing that copuld happen now is that the people who did this are caught and brought to justice quickly.
Not sure I understand where you’re coming from about the Pizza van Mick, are the men in the van bystanders who got hit in the attack?
Harry,
I don’t know for sure,but Masserene was always a REME base
about one month go the new group of Oglaigh na Eireann supposedl planted a 300lb bomb in Castlewellan. Had anyone ever heard of them prior to that, What chance that they will also receive blame for this?
If they do then clearly they are only using very experienced individuals who would surely be known to the police.
Has anyone heard of OnaH
Harry
38 Engineer Regiment.. so far as I can see… Not locally recruited, but locally headquartered from early last year…
http://www.army.mod.uk/royalengineers/units/843.aspx
http://www.publications.parliament.uk/pa/ld200708/ldhansrd/text/80424-wms0002.htm
BBC round up political reaction
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/7930878.stm
Harry,
treat that with some caution… I’ve only heard that report once on th Beeb and it;s not been repeated since… could be red herring…
Yes, this pizza van seems to have been involved to some extent but its certainly not clear whether it was part of the attack, or just caught up in it.
The BBC have just eluded to the fact that we don’t know what happened to the gunmen. Perhaps there may be more to this than the media are being allowed to report at the moment. All speculation, of course.
There has been enough anger vented on here tonight and perhaps it’s a good thing that most of us can get rid of it on a website rather than killing anybody. It’s very sad and I feel nothing but sympathy for those families. To get that news is shocking. People I have spoken to feel nothing but anger and an awful feeling of deja vu. RIP.
I think its quite clearly timed to coincide with the recent revelation that the British Secret Forces were being brought back in. If more British forces are brought back in in response to this and on the streets again expect things to spiral quickly.
Political progress needs to be made again to counter this, dialogue between all parties to try and ensure the marching season goes off peacefully and ensuring that policing and justice is devolved to take away the argument from these ‘dissident’ groups that the police are “administering British justice”, etc. Devolution I believe will help republicans ensure that the psni are not targetted. If the PSNI are on the front line shooting dissidents law and order will break down on all sides. Please God don’t let any loyalists “respond” to this, its time for cool heads to prevail and for unionists to apply some foresight to their strategy of stalling everything at Stormont. We need progress there and we need it fast, not grandstanding, and I know that some within the DUP are trying to resolve these issues but we need things speeded up.
Masserene is Royal Engineers, no local deployment, apart from possible Bomb Squad (Felix). Due to close soon and move to RAF Aldergrove.
sorry Mick, this is a first for many of us and we react. No offence to LURIG intended, his comments are valid.
But this has serious consequences. The main reaction, of course should be with the families of the victims.
Jer, The IRA always used the term O na H,as they didn’t accept partition and claimed that they were the “legitimate”Irish Army.Since the PIRA ceasefire the term has been used by rira who see themselves as picking up where the provos left off.
From the well done fillet:
http://welldonefillet.blogspot.com/2009/03/they-can-fuck-right-offand-stay-there.html
Thanks to Mick and all the other posters, this site is providing more useful information than many so-called “news” providers who seem to knock off some time around lunch on a Saturday. Also it is good to let off steam, as was said above better to rant anonymously on the internet than go out on the streets and take it out on our neighbours, which is what we used to do in the past.
Memory tells me they’ve been mostly involved over towards Strabane… I would hold fire on jumping to conclusions at this stage though. Nothing wrong with waiting for more information when it actually comes… I’m off to bed…
Danny, I am familiar with the IRA using OnaH but i did not think the security forces and media were calling cira or rira as OnaH. The Castlwellan bomb was then a cira or rira device or an entirely separate and new entity usng OnaH as its only identifier
Jer ,If My memory serves me right Omagh was claimed in the warning as O na H later confirmed to be rira.
BBC on the reactions:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0VNPKA1uflg
Worth pointing out the difference between Thomas Burns statement that the Cheif Constable had good information, and the party’s earlier statement:
http://twitter.com/SDLPlive/status/1289077272
The SDLP said today we believe that MI5 fingerprints are all over the deployment of Special Forces after a meeting with the Chief Constable,
Definately gone to bed now…
For more on O na H search ONH in this document
http://www.independentmonitoringcommission.org/documents/uploads/Twentieth Report.pdf
There does appear to be a little bit of confusion all right about the status of the pizza delivery. I am reading elsewhere that the gunmen were in the car that was behind the delivery driver (perhaps sent as a decoy to deliver a false phoned in order) and there are reports that the second burst of gunfire may have ben the army returning fire. If so then the civilian injured may be an innocent delivery man caught in the crossfire.
But take care with all of that, it’s all very unclear and a bit of speculation on my part but it might become clearer in the morning.
I have delivered pizzas to Mahon rd army base in Portadown a few times, I found it strange that you could get access and drive around inside the base as long as you had pizzas with you, it was a long wait on the drunken squaddies to get payment though, not good on a Friday night.
There are a whole host of possible scenarios re. the pizza delivery,
it was part of the attack…it was entirely innocent and followed in…the injured civvies were innocent delivery men…they were the attackers…they were MoD civilian workers.
Bottom line we’re guessing at the moment
Óglaigh na h-Éireann was the title of the Irish Volunteers formed in 1913. Is the title used by all those organisations claiming to be the army of the Irish Republic including:
The Irish Defence Forces
The Official IRA
The Provos
CIRA
RIRA
They all style themselves Óglaigh na h-Éireann. This new group Ónhis just the latest IRA splinter group to appear. So far it has avoided getting itself a nickname.
I spent 22 years in the Regular Army, of which more than enough in the delightful Six Counties/Occupied North/Ulster/Norn Iron.
I vividly remember the dissidents emerging from the mainstream – the first crowd in 86 or so, associated with RSF and the last tranche, associated with the then-QMG after he flounced out of the GAC in a fit of pique and started freelance operations.
Even once the Shinners eventually got the hang of what Seamus Mallon immortally called “Sunningdale for Slow Learners”, these head-the-balls stuck with it; they’re not exactly Nobel Prize candidates, either in terms of IQ or political sophistication.
They got lucky and murdered two soldiers tonight. Well done, guys, can’t you feel Whitehall tremble? No, of course you can’t. The UK and its armed forces are in one-and-a-half hot wars and are probably not minded to devote a huge amount of national attention to this.
Assuming all hands with an interest in the ongoing process screw the nut, keep the heads down, tone down the rhetoric on all sides – because, whatever their histories, neither Gerry nor Martin nor any of the mischievous little tinkers in the mainstream Republican movement, likewise their less gifted opposite numbers on the Orange side, can see any conceivable benefit to them from this ugly violent episode – and let the PSNI and An Garda Siochana, with some specialist help sort it out – and not get in the way or try to score any petty party political points – this is solvable as a criminal problem.
Any word of a car on fire somewhere?
Did the attackers get away?
if there isn’t a solid response and some ass kicking from this it’ll be no surprise if you see loyalists coming to the conclusion “if no one else will do it, then we’ll have to”.
and we know where that leads.
so yes…some serious leadership and action required from the govt on this. if they sit back and fire out the usual dribble cliches then all that will happen is more attacks like this.
BBC reporting the MoD saying the two dead are soldiers and the other four are military personnel
Statement from the MoD via the BBC saying they can confirm the deaths of four soldiers and injuries to ‘four other personnel’, suggesting that all of those injured were MoD personnel.
BBC report: The two dead are soldiers, the other four injured seem to be military personnel.
Chekov
“You disgusting shameless toad”
You should know! All right thinking people will be disgusted by this atrocity. However, what is needed is cool thinking and speaking from the politicians.
There are of course those on the “loyalist” side who will take this opportunity to point the finger at ALL Republicans/Nationalists/Catholics which has often led to innocent Catholics being murdered in the past – don’t insult peoples intelligence by denying it.
LURIG is quite right. The UDA/UVF still have all their guns and there are plenty of them who would love to kill any old taig (just like old times) – make a nice break from drug dealing and extortion eh.
“Loyalist” leaders and commentators have a responsibility to speak with calmness and clarity – not to whip up a lynch mob as so many have done in the past.
We are already seeing some of them doing so now.
I agree with LURIG – if this leads to innocent Catholics are killed, then much of the blame sits with them.