It’s an ex-stadium-plan for Maze
Some “dishonourable person” has leaked another Northern Ireland Executive document.. This time it’s a paper by Culture Minister, the DUP’s Gregory Campbell, detailing the end of any plans for a multi-sports stadium at the Maze site. From the BBC report
In his paper to executive colleagues, Sports Minister Gregory Campbell said the plan did not enjoy sufficient political consensus, and he said a net loss to the economy of between £156m and £193m did not compensate for the non-monetary benefits which may flow from a shared stadium. Mr Campbell said he now intended to help the three sports to develop solutions to their stadia needs.
This is a dissapointing outcome and will hopefully wil be followed by more positive news from other areas.
Where’s the money coming from for the Windsor upgrade? I hope its not public money, because nationalists (roughly half the population) have no interest whatsoever in the “our wee country” soccer team. He can do a whip around with the unionist bloc at Stormont if he wants to pay for it, but it better not be coming out of my pocket! My money is spent traveling to our nation’s capital in Dublin to watch the Republic. A team that has support from and indeed is representative of every province in Ireland.
This consensus thing has some benefits. Another white elephant culled and for very sensible reasons. Thank god for that.
Surely as long as the pot is divided equally between the three sports, then few can complain? I too follow the Republic but have no issue with Windsor Park being upgraded as long as it receives exactly one third funding.
quagmire,
‘nationalists (roughly half the population) have no interest whatsoever in the “our wee country” soccer team’
And unionists have no interest whatsoever in GAA stick-fighting and bogball.
So by your logic, it looks like the 9-county Ulster Branch of the IRFU have won the jackpot.
I dont care what Unionists are interested in. The IFA need the new stadium more than the “GAA stick fighters and bog-ballers”, as you so eloquently described them, do. I have no problem with a new stadium being built, as long as it is in a neutral area where everyone can feel welcome. What I do have a problem with though is that sectarian cesspit on the Lisburn Road getting a face lift at my expense.
“I dont care what Unionists are interested in.”
Good man yerself. None of that ould parity of esteem crap for you. Tell em straight-”I’m not paying nathin for themmuns”.
Er.. even Marty McGuinness has the wit to hide it better. Wouldn’t you be better employing your creative talents painting some pillar boxes green?
Any public money spent on sports stadia here should be matched by the particular sporting body.
If the IFA need 20 million, they should have to find 10 million themselves.
At least the IRFU & the GAA fund a lot of their own improvements. The IFA on the other hand, are always around with their begging bowl, looking something for nothing.
Its incredible that the GAA & Ulster branch of the IRFU are likely to have miiions thrown at them (without even asking), because the poorly supported IFA have to get a new stand for Windsor Park.
Personally, i would tear the place town and let them find their own funding.If they can’t, tough.
Did you even read the post, Quagmire? Read Pete’s lips – no new stadium, most likely upgrades will be agreed to existing stadia. Tough, but you’re unlikely to get a say in whether the IFA chooses Windsor Park, any more than unionists will get a say if the GAA choose to upgrade facilities at Kevin Lynch’s, Dungiven (to mention one real, sectarian cesspit). Get over it.
Ulster Rugby is actually decreasing the capacity of Ravenhill to build new corporate facilities – so more money, but less people.
This is for short term expediency, but Ulster is rapidly being left behind by clubs with larger grounds – Leinster has the 20k RDS with access to Lansdowne Road when it is finished, Munster the 26k Thomond Park, Ospreys are in the 22k Liberty, Cardiff is moving to a 20k+ stadium at the end of the year… not to mention the big English and French teams.
The IRFU has funded new stadia in Limerick and Dublin but in both sites the development was permitted while I believe there is no way that an expansion at Ravenhill would get past the planners given it is a residential area.
So from a rugby perspective, the Ulster team does need a larger ground to have a future, the governing body has funded similar developments… but location?
“Good man yerself. None of that ould parity of esteem crap for you.”
Posted by Cushy Glenn on Jan 28, 2009 @ 04:20 PM
Just fighting fire with fire my friend. The same accusation could be put to Gregory Campbell himself, or any other member of the DUP/UUP for that matter.
Well the IFA are the only organisation who will host international events in N.I.
The Ulster rugby team is a club side and the GAA has nobody else to play with.
(Ducks for cover).
“Its incredible that the GAA & Ulster branch of the IRFU are likely to have millons thrown at them (without even asking), because the poorly supported IFA have to get a new stand for Windsor Park.
Personally, i would tear the place town and let them find their own funding.If they can’t, tough.”
Posted by stuart on Jan 28, 2009 @ 04:21 PM
Couldn’t agree more.
Quagmire
Hush. Be content that Windsor Park will not get enough money to raise it out of craphole status and that its location in the Village will continue to deter Nationalists from ever setting foot there.
A great victory for Northern Ireland football fans. How is their campaign to stop Irish citizens from playing for the Republic going?
Michael
What is the capacity of Ravenhill currently? Surely, given the experience of football, you are looking at a situation where the teams with the biggest stadiums will power away from the rest?
That is a crisis if so, no?
“Well the IFA are the only organisation who will host international events in N.I.”
Posted by mnob on Jan 28, 2009 @ 04:51 PM
“our wee country” is not a nation hence the phrase international cannot be applied.
“(Ducks for cover).”
Posted by mnob on Jan 28, 2009 @ 04:51 PM
lol
What is the capacity of Ravenhill currently? Surely, given the experience of football, you are looking at a situation where the teams with the biggest stadiums will power away from the rest?
That is a crisis if so, no?
“Crisis” may be overstating it a bit… but I would say a matter for serious concern.
Capacity was approx. 13.5k, this will be temporarily reduced to under 10k while building work is in progress (it started this month) and new capacity will be approx. 11.6k for the start of the 09/10 season in September.
Rugby isn’t yet at the level of football with the rich clubs dominating and then the rest, but it is heading that way. Crowds mean money which means the best coaches and facilities and the ability to retain local talent and bring in the best imports.
Ulster has good core support and until a few seasons ago, pulled in bigger crowds than both Munster and Leinster. But with large, modern grounds, Munster and Leinster have grown their support substantially and have overtaken Ulster.
The die hard supporter may like standing out in the open with a crap view being rained upon, but to grow the support base, you need modern facilities.
Stuart seems to be pretty close to the mark, any funding made available by the administration should be matched in some way by those seeking it.
Casement is in as much need of an upgrade as Windsor is but at least the GAA have committed to sorting out their stadium with or without Stormount support.
Glensman
Can not agree .
Every organisation according to its needs.
IFA have no money and in order to upgrade Windsor park it requires special help.
Foot ball supporters are after all tax payers.
A country of equals.
Let us examine how much went into he coffers of GAA from British Taxpayers over the past ten years and compare that to the amount paid to soccer.
Wasn’t it wonderfully fortuitous that a ‘dishonourable person’ slipped this out on the same day as Eames-Bradley.
I don’t especially like the DUPs but who says that they aren’t running rings around SF? The Stadium issue almost instantly became yesterday’s chip wrapper!
Surely funding received should be proportionate to attendances attracted by each sport. If this rule was applied, then GAA and Rugby would rightly receive the lion’s share of funding whilst soccer would get around a score of quid-a fiver more than Elephant Polo but eight quid less than Underwater Hockey.
Personally, I couldn’t care less about the Maze.
As long as money is allocated equally, I don’t give a s**t what the IFA do with their share. If they want to “upgrade” a tenth rate s**thole into a ninth rate s**thole, then good luck to them.
It certainly won’t make any difference to their failed attempts to “tickle the tummies” of Catholics and try to airbrush decades of sickening sectarianisnm at Windsor out of history.
However, Nationalists at Stormont must be vigilant. If Campbell tries to favour the IFA over the GAA and/or the IRFU, then his proposals must be kicked into touch.
The days of “croppie lie down” are over. Either the money is allocated equally or, if Campbell tries to sahft the GAA, Nationalists ensure that no money is allocated at all and OWC’s s**thole stadium can continue to disintegrate.
Don’t think the GAGA should get a penny.It seems to me that every game of Irish Thugball and Stickfighting is played(?) under dat Oirish fleg. Can’t them lads down in Dublin not pay for the GAGA to build more provo shrines?
Why is it that it is mainly Unionist commentators on this website that resort to pathetic name calling?
Don’t think the GAGA should get a penny.It seems to me that every game of Irish Thugball and Stickfighting is played(?) under dat Oirish fleg.
Posted by Hey! Handbal Ref on Jan 28, 2009 @ 07:38 PM
Firstly the GAA don’t need the money, the IFA do. Attendance at All Ireland Final 82,000, attendance at Irish Cup Final Billy, Sammy and a dog. Secondly they play under that flag because it is the national flag of Ireland. Half the population of the north and all of the south see it as there flag. You belong to a minority on this Island. What are you anyway British, Northern Irish, Ulster Scots, Lost Tribe of Israel? Get back to me when you find out who you are.
I’d be interested to see the reaction of other Irish league clubs if Linfield are going to have tens of millions tossed in their laps (again).
Sammy: This is a dissapointing outcome and will hopefully wil be followed by more positive news from other areas.
Almost certainly. It was predictable that there would be horsetrading in the executive. Now we are starting to see the shape of the big four issues: Selection in schools, the Maze shrine, devolved policing and justice, and Irish language support.
If it doesn’t work out at 2+2 from your POV, though, it looks like you would have to blame SF incompetence as much as DUP intransigence
It will be an absolute disgrace if millions of pounds are spent on Windsor Park.
How can you justify spending millions on a ground that the IFA struggle to fill at present?
12,000 people three or four times a year does not justify such a huge cash injection, especially when the beggars at IFA headquarters seem totally inept at funding any improvements themselves.
Any major funding for Windsor Park should be resisted by all at Stormont as a total waste of taxpayers money.
Why is it that it is mainly republican commentators on this website that resort to pathetic name-calling refusing to acknowledge that the “north” is in reality Northern Ireland, its flag is the Union Flag and all its people are British?
Reader,
“you would have to blame SF incompetence as much as DUP intransigence”
If intransigence works for the DUP then of course they should use it – every party tries does what is best for itself – hopefully it simply wont work.
Re. Stadia – when Ulster qualify for HC/SF quarter finals on a regular basis – which hopefully will happen – it would be excellent if some (ideally Northern GAA ground )could host the fixture if Ravenhill is not deemed large enough.
The real disappointment is that the Maze proposal was ever given serious consideration in the first place.
It’s been money-down-the-train from the beginning (though a nice-little-earner for consultants of course, as is the new-NI way).
I think Windsor Park should be upgraded to incorporate an athletics track around the pitch. This would allow the IFA President and the Linfield Manager to march around the field wearing their sashes along with their fellow orangemen- Sport for all indeed.
He can do a whip around with the unionist bloc at Stormont if he wants to pay for it, but it better not be coming out of my pocket!
Or you’ll do what exactly?
I’d be more disturbed, if I were you about the money that’s already been pilfered from your pocket to pay for the White Elephant project.
The fact that it ever got as far as it did is a disgrace, heads should roll.
Anyone seen Pootsie today?
Sammy sez, “This is a dissapointing outcome and will hopefully wil be followed by more positive news from other areas”; Sammy meanz, “when I droned on and on and on that *exactly* this wouldn’t happen, because SF are in the driving seat, I was spouting horsesh*t of a fine and rarified kind”. This was the result every thinking Unionist wanted, and the result 50,000 unionists told Sammy would happy. But on and on and on he droned that, no sir, it wouldn’t. Ho, ho, ho.
“its flag is the Union Flag and all its people are British?”
Posted by Billyo on Jan 28, 2009 @ 08:24 PM
“It” doesn’t have an official agreed flag and even if “it” did it won’t inhibit half of “it’s” population pledging alliegance to the flag of the Republic, so keep your head buried in the sand if you must. As for all of its people being British, what a joke. Have a wee read mate
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/northern_ireland/7484182.stm
Ho ho ho
Case of premature evaluation there.
Congratulations to Gregory Campbell and the DUP for ensuring that the stadium didn’t go ahead at the Maze. The DUP have proved that devolution works for unionism and that if we had direct rule we would have no say in this matter. OH yes this is what the TUV through Jim Alister wants direct rule maze stadium, irish language act, abolish academic selection.
Reader
I’m not sure this spells the end for the conflict centre. Wasn’t the idea kicking about that no Maze stadium but the centre would be built? Or did I imagine that?
There seems to be relative calm over the decision so far anyway.
Nah Sammy, it’s a case of stale c*m-hither. Do you want me to dig out all those quotes from you, droning on and on and on, assuring us that precisely what has just happened wouldn’t? Just say the word . . .
Ho, ho, ho.
Ho ho ho
“Do you want me to dig out all those quotes from you, droning on and on and on, assuring us that precisely what has just happened wouldn’t? Just say the word ”
Just the one will be fine thanks.
At the end of the day, although I’m upset somewhat by the decision, all that is being afforded to Windsor is a cosmetic sticking plaster. The IFA, more so than any other stakeholder in the debate, need the money. The GAA certainly don’t and neither does the Ulster branch of the IRFU. The stadium would be utilised more so by soccer than by Gaelic games or Rugby. So in the medium term the IFA are restricted to crowds of 12,000(If their lucky) in that shit hole on the Lisburn Road which will hardly set their financial world alight. My point is that, when they are eventually forced to move to a new stadium, where are they going to build it? With what money? I look forward to the much trumpeted veto that Dodds harks on about, only this time the shoe will be on the other foot.
Mack
Devolution works for Nationalists also.
If Unionists had their way, as in the past, Linfield and the IFA would simply be given a ton of public money to upgrade Windsor Park and, if other sports lost out, tough luck. Remember the ridiculous 100 year deal that the IFA made with Linfield at a time when they operated a blatently sectarian signing policy?
The difference is that, no matter how much he may want to favour the IFA and “Our Wee Country”, Campbell can’t do so.
If he wants to give money to Linfield and the IFA, that’s fine – as long as the money is allocated equally and the GAA get at least as much as the IFA.
However, if he tries to shaft the GAA and/or the IRFU, he’ll be stopped in his tracks.
As you rightly say, Unionists can prevent a stadium at the Maze being built – personally, I don’t care – it always seemed a daft idea anyway.
However, Nationalists can prevent Campbell from favouring the IFA over the GAA and/or the IRFU.
If Campbell and fellow Unionists don’t like it – tough! The days of croppie lie down are over and won’t ever be coming back.
It’s either a fair share for the GAA or the IFA will get nothing.
It seems devolution also works for Nationalists.
Good positive politics from the republican posters; “…..can prevent Campbell from favouring the IFA over the GAA” after stating that the GAA don’t need support.
So no reason then to complain when the unionists kill off any possibility of an Irish Language Act?
A shared future indeed in the ‘Ireland of Equals’.
Ah perhaps it’s just as well it ain’t gonna go ahead. A ‘national’ stadium for NI is perhaps a ludicrous idea and an awful waste of English tax payers money, at the end of the day. The location too just didn’t suit, as a lot of people have said here on Slugger over the last few years. An oversized stadium of 30,000 capacity that would be only full when hosting a GAA Ulster final, etc… or when the Irish rugby team played is just an enormous waste of public funding.
Besides, in Dublin, there is always Croke Park and the new Lansdowne Road redevelopment will be finished next year, serving the GAA, IRFU and FAI respectively.
A lick of paint for Windosr Park , a bit of DIY and sure it will be grand for the IFA for another good few years. An amount of NI folk support this idea too of a compact and intimate little ground for NI. In any way, the money just ain’t in the kitty for stadiums I suppose in these credit crunch times.
However, it’s probably a missed opportunity really for NI, considering that the Olympics will be held in London 2012.
BTW, check out how Lansdowne Road in Dublin is coming along here…
http://www.lrsdc.ie/gallery/singlecategory.asp?PCID=100
http://www.lrsdc.ie/gallery/singlecategory.asp?PCID=34
A UEFA cup final is on the cards to be held in it soon after it’s finished.
As Sports Minister, Gregory Campbell should pursue his desire for an NI rugby team too. In anyway, there is an awful lot of Unionist folk in NI who do not support the Irish rugby team.
That way the awful debacle over flags and anthems will be resolved and the loyal ‘British’ folk of NI can sing and stand for God Save the Queen and their Union flag! I’m sure every Unionist would agree too!
So go on, get those petitions going!
I think this decision should open up the possibility of a shared stadium for football and rugby located in the Ormeau Park.
The general consensus is both these sports need a new modern stadium in order to generate revenue, the Maze proposal offered no such possibility. Bigoted republicans on this thread have accepted that the GAA does not need a new stadium so it can only be bloody minded bigotry to deny those sports that do.
Oh but the old chestnut of im “a taxpayer”, really. Since when have individulas had the right to deny funding to varying areas of public funding. If republicans deny me the right to watch my national football team in safety and comfort I will demand a tax rebate on the grounds that I object to my tax being used to fund the war in Iraq.
I don´t wish to deny GAA fans the right to watch their sports in comfort, so why do some wish to deny me the same right, after all football is the only true cross community sport in Northern Ireland.
Is the GAA going to be so awash with cash in the future when they lose the millions from the Republic of Ireland football and rugby teams patronage?
There certainly is an overwhelming smugness about the claims of GAA fans on this site….not dissimilar it must be said to the smugness that surrounded the super soaraway Celtic Tiger of the Republic not so long ago.
ANyway, excellent decision, if confirmed, today. The Maze was a disgraceful concept from the start. It certainly never suited the requirements of football and rugby…and well, was the GAA ever interested either, or were they ‘advised’ of the position they were to take?
‘If republicans deny me the right to watch my national football team in safety and comfort’
It’s hardly republicans to blame for the dump that is Windsor Park and it’s hardly republicans fault that football is so poorly supported in the North.
I think you would be better addressing your concerns about health and safety to the IFA.
Perhaps the Football authorities would do well to study how the bigger supported sports of Gaelic and Rugby manage and attract ever growing numbers of fans and ask yourself why some Irish league clubs can hardly manage to get a hundred fans through the turnstiles on a saturday.
The rugby crowd in Ulster have done wonderful work in making the sport more popular, welcoming and attractive to the average sports fan over the last number of years.
Dr Who
‘If republicans deny me the right to watch my national football team in safety and comfort’
The financial plight of the IFA is nothing to do with Republicans. Decisions like the 100 year deal with Linfield (and the legal costs if the IFA try to get out of it) and massive payouts to Bowen etc are purely down to the ineptitude of the IFA ‘management’.
I don’t remember too many OWC fans complaining when the IFA made the ludicrous deal with Linfield at a time when they operated a blatently sectarian signing policy.
If the GAA and the IRFU have made better use of their resources than the IFA – that’s tough on the IFA.
Personally, I’m not bothered about the Maze being ditched.
However, the days of the IFA + Linfield being given massive amounts of taxpayers dosh (and who cares how the Catholics feel eh?) are gone for good.
The IFA are entitled to an equal share of taxpayers money and no more. In fact, that’s a good deal for them as the GAA draw a lot bigger crowds.
However, the GAA + IRFU are also entitled to their equal share and, if it’s not forthcoming, Campbell has no chance of getting one penny of public money for Windsor Park.
It’s typical of you to blame “Republicans” for the fact that Windsor Park is a shithole.
You’d be better off looking at the so-called IFA “management”.
The vast majority of Nationalists\Catholics support the RoI and want nothing to do with OWC (I wonder why that could be?).
If you think that Campbell or any other Unionist has any chance of short changing the GAA to benefit OWC + Windsor Park, you’re living well in the past.
The bottom line is clear – either the GAA get their fair allocation of funds or no-one gets anything. It’s as simple as that.
David
“The rugby crowd in Ulster have done wonderful work in making the sport more popular, welcoming and attractive to the average sports fan over the last number of years. ”
So you would have no objections to Ulster Rugby obtaining a much neede new stadium, one im sure they would be more than happy to share with football.
You rightly point out what the Ulster branch of the IRFU have acheived, but yet you don´t recognise that no other organisation has worked harder to promote a positive image in their sport than the IFA.
Billy,
I would hazard a guess that probably half the players registered with the IFA are Catholics, what do you think the percentage of registered Protestant players with the GAA.
So please don´t play the sectarian card “Billy Liar”. The GAA should obtain public money, despite many of their grounds being shrines to republican murderers, they have always accepted the “British” taxpayers money despite their distain of all things British.
The fact is that Rugby and Football need a new stadium, GAA does not, you even recognise this yourself. It is your personal bigotry that wishes to prevent this and for that you should seek help in exorcising your own narrow-minded little demons, and of course to cure your pathological fib talking.