Inquiry would bear heaviest on those responsible for a small share deaths
No one who saw Eames-Bradleys’ initial brief, never mind their specific terms of reference, could do much other than shake their head slowly in sympathy for two decent men charged with an impossible task. Whatever came out of the machine, was always likely to fall under the category of ‘political football’. Paul Bew’s on the Today Programme contribution from Paul Bew this morning tricks out first the context for the critical reaction, and then what may prove its most fatal flaw; the imperative for telling the truth.
First that controversial £12k:
“The authors of this report are actually rejecting the idea of a hierarchy of victims and they are responding to a real difficulty in that we currently have a number of inquiries, Bloody Sunday and a number of others, looking at only a very small number of victims when over three and a half people have died. The difficulty that Eames and Bradley are faced with is that society is saying “we don’t like that hierarchy of victims, please give us something else”. They have come out and given us something else- the solution being that the family of everyone who died should get £12,000. And the reaction from people seems to be “well actually, we didn’t like that hierarchy of victims, but we still think there is a hierarchy of victims, and we’re not prepared to give equal treatment to terrorists”.
Towards the end he notes the asymetrical effect that such a time bound legacy enquiry is likely to produce in the context of a committed silence from all but the state actors in the conflict:
Lord Eames and Dennis Bradley hope this could help perform a work of major reconciliation. There is a difficulty here about such an inquiry which for example will look at some important issues like the ethnic cleansing of Protestants in border areas. But the difficulty is, who is going to tell the truth?
In particular, do we have a clear and unambiguous statement from the IRA that it is going to contribute? Now don’t forget that the security forces are responsible for only 10% of the deaths in Northern Ireland. The Lion’s share lies with Republican and Loyalist terrorists and within the terrorist community, the IRA.
If we haven’t got a clear statement – and remember currently we have a situation where Gerry Adams will say “I am not a member of the IRA” – how much truth are we really going to get?
And alternatively, the organisations which have documents are the police and the security services, the way this thing will work is that you have everything baring more heavily down on the people who are responsible for a small share of the deaths.”
Ruby mags
I enjoyed your last response at point 45. I had been thinkg of him myself when his son was talking about truth and making up lies about the report on lets talk. Points that Mark Carruthers corrected him on.
Though i also want to remark about the question that led to the debate. It was about whether the suffering of the families had been any different. When I first heard about this leak and the uproar it was causing, my first question to myself was,’why should families be punished?’
Im young but I know how evil some of the IRA’s acts were. I also know that from a quick glance of our recent history how evil some RUC men were, some UDR men, some british soldiers and some of our elected politicians, no less a recent first minister. These were hateful people who tore us apart and tried their hardest to stop us getting together. They failed, we agreeed to the good friday agreement and continue to work together for the benefit of the people. One of those mentioned even changed his mind but all this shows in my opinion is how attractive power is. Maybe no need for the snipe at big Ian but he has been my MP for 23 years so i feel i can. There was a point to this rant. Certain people such as Willie dont want us to come together, don’t want us to agree and don’t want us to grow up and move on. They would rather see families continue to suffer their losses whether it be a brother, a father or a son. Equally a sister, mother or daughter. They may had no choice in the actions a loved one got caught up in but according to the naysayers they must suffer more. Not because of what they have done, after all the only thing they have done is loose a family member. They must suffer more for what their family member has done.
On let’s talk somebody made a point. He said that if a family had knew their was a parlimilitary in their family at least they should expect them to die some time. Would it hurt any less when they do?
“DC
“I actually admire Willie Fraser in a way”
Really – that speaks volumes about you!”
My “in a way” was his straight-talking that you just don’t get from Adams and his warped mythology that wraps up murder as some sort of historical right to motivate people to divide against one another in some bizarre way that this could unite us.
DC
I’m no admirer of Gerry Adams either. I certainly don’t come on here praising him or saying that I “admire” him in any way.
What’s the difference between him dressing up Republican terrorism and Frazer saying that “loyalist” terrorists should never have been locked up?
Let’s get this straight – Frazer said that “loyalist” terrorists – people who were guilty of vicious murder of innocent men, women and children (sometimes involving sickening torture) purely because they were Catholics should never “have been locked up in the first place”.
Do you agree with that or not?
Personally I think that anyone guilty of sectarian murders etc IRRESPECTIVE of which “side” they are from should be in jail. Do you agree with that?
Willie Frazer obviously doesn’t so, while I sympathize with his loss, it doesn’t give him the right to insult the relatives of the Catholics brutally murdered by the “loyalist” terrorists he defends without being exposed as a hypocrite.
Personally, I’ll reserve my admiration for those who unreservedly condemn ALL terrorism irrespective of whoever carries it out.
Billy you’re failing victim yourself to those that criticise the 12k, you focus on one thing that is believing that I admire Willie Frazers views. I don’t.
I admire the way he goes down to Dublin, for example the SF ard fheis, and puts his blunt questions to Adams’s crew.
If only we had more liberals prepared to stand up for their own values in such a relentless way, particularly in light of the recent race problems in the media, outlining the wider changes to economic development, which has pushed up growth overall not actually reduced job-share – if then we had such forceful ways used for good purposes – perhaps we might be in a different position now.
That includes what has come to pass in NI over the last 30 years as well, perhaps we could have reduced the level to which we all became retarded and hell bent on waging war on ourselves only to end up pretty much where we started before it all kicked off.
“I admire the way he goes down to Dublin, for example the SF ard fheis, and puts his blunt questions to Adams’s crew.”
You admire cheap, shallow publicity stunts?
Do you admire how he wastes police time with fantastic stories of fighting off twenty IRA kidnappers by himself and using his driving skills to evade hostile provo mobs?
I’ll bet it made your heart swell with admiration when wee Willie got carried away from Stormont kicking and screaming when Adams and Paisley met for the first time.
The rest of us can clearly see that the man is a publicity hungry mentalist who uses his “FAIR” group as a vehicle to get his name and face on television and the papers – why can’t you?
Those cheap shallow publicity stunts are only as shallow as the graves of his family matey.
Willie Frazer is like the captives in roman times who used to tag along with their leaders, brought along with the group to remind the leaders that they were but mere mortals.
Mr Adams is not the messiah but a very very naughty wee west Belfast boy and Frazer is there to reduce the value of any Adams personality cult.
Frazer has a tendency to cut pomp out of adams in a similar way Michael McDowell used to. Yes the Irish find it distasteful of course I do too, but for getting the message across it seems to work. Just like McDowell, it has an outcome that tends to knock both parties out when deploying it, for example Adams was run into the mud at last election. It was unionist in flavour but the rationale was not lost on anyone who cared to remain impartial before casting their vote.
“Willie Frazer is like the captives in roman times who used to tag along with their leaders, brought along with the group to remind the leaders that they were but mere mortals.”
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAAAA!! Bloody hell. Thanks for the laugh.
If you think Frazer wasting Police time and making himself look like a clown with tales of fighting off twenty IRA by himself is hurting Gerry Adams, then more power to you.
“for example Adams was run into the mud at last election.”
How did Willie do in his last election? Or all his previous elections for that matter?