The Irishmen of the Irish Guards…
Fascinating piece from Tommie Gorman on that steady trickle of Irishmen into the British Army… The Irish Guards are 40% made up of people from the island and second and third generation Englishmen.
Adds: Aengus is not happy about “the British Army’s public relations offensive in Ireland is being facilitated by certain media outlets.” He also claims Irish neutrality is being broken, though most of those southerners who mention how they were recruited mention visits to Holywood, which although in Northern Ireland he alleges any local recruitment of British soldiers even “in the Six Counties, in violation of the principles underlying the Good Friday Agreement”.
Tags: Media
ggn: Dont know what you mean by ‘Nordies’.
Nordies are residents of the 6 counties. The term covers both nationalists and unionists and isn’t inherently seen as offensive. Though I suppose that depends on context.
ggn: it is my understanding that they themselves would not have the protection of other soldiers.
Actually, I don’t think you are right. Uniformed members of a regular army are certainly covered, by the laws of war, their citizenship is irrelevant. If you wanted to have them killed after capture you would need to make some legal changes to your current laws on treason, which, I understand, are fashionably wishy-washy.
ggn & reader
‘it is my understanding that they themselves would not have the protection of other soldiers’
The precedent to solving this unlikely ever to happen problem was already set back in the 1870 through 1920 along the German French border . When the French Emperor attacked Germany in 1870 some of the German speaking inhabitants within France fled to Germany where they were treated as foreigners and imprisoned unless they agreed to join up in the German Army . Some were subsequently captured by the advancing French and were sentenced to death by firing squad as traitors unless they agreed to re-enlist in the French Army . Subsequently some of these were again recaptured by the Germans as they advance and won this war and tried as ‘traitors ‘ unless they joined up with the Germans again . At this point German speaking Alsatians (the humans not the dogs they are not that clever there ) settled down for a forty year peaceful epoch as part of the new German Reich and spent (those who survived ) many winter evenings regaling their grandchildren with stories of how they had been several times on opposing sides in the same war .
And when the grandchildren asked could it ever happen again and might it be safer to live elsewhere the grandfathers said probably not.
I prefer wishy washy in these matters – Absolutley NO to absolutism
. Absolutism has it’s place when you are dealing with the correct stress capability of a bridge which will have 5,000 cars and trucks crossing it every day . But with flesh and blood humans , I find that turning a blind eye sometimes to the rule by the book merchants is the better course and can yield longer term more positive returns.
By the laws of the time the execution of the 1916 leaders was ‘just’ and as it was restricted to the leaders only probably even considered lenient by many non irish and even irish at the time . Had the sentence not been executed immediately or delayed for a year or more would we have had our Republic ?
You never know with human beings do you ? Actions don’t always result in universally similar reactions.
“When you say believe what do you mean by that? Ireland has never been united except under British rule. To believe suggests you think that it’s inevitable. Or, do you mean you would like there to be a UI. Why would you want a UI if loads of the inhabiatants don’t want to be part of it?”
Hi Congal,
I mean that I wish to see a United Ireland one day. One Ireland nation. But of course that is only an apiration. Besides 800,000 NI British Unionists do not wish to be part of such a nation. And Unionists opinions and rights are to be respected as they are the majority in NI.
Saying that Ireland was never united except under British rule is not a justification for Ireland to be governed by British rule either, with an English monarch as head of state.
BTW ie Italy’s republic states have a long history of being at war with each other, but folk today don’t say that the Italian nation should not exist!
In anyway, sure didn’t Brian Boru unite the whole of Ireland after he ran the Danes out of town. And sure is’nt the Mayo man buried up in Downpatrick too.
“When you say believe what do you mean by that? Ireland has never been united except under British rule. To believe suggests you think that it’s inevitable. Or, do you mean you would like there to be a UI. Why would you want a UI if loads of the inhabiatants don’t want to be part of it?”
Hi Congal,
I mean that I wish to see a United Ireland one day. One Ireland nation. But of course that is only an aspiration. Besides 800,000 NI British Unionists do not wish to be part of such a nation. And Unionists opinions and rights are to be respected as they are the majority in NI.
Saying that Ireland was never united except under British rule is not a justification for Ireland to be governed by British rule either, with an English monarch as head of state.
BTW ie Italy’s republic states have a long history of being at war with each other, but folk today don’t say that the Italian nation should not exist!
In anyway, sure didn’t Brian Boru unite the whole of Ireland after he ran the Danes out of town. And sure is’nt the Mayo man buried up in Downpatrick too.
Hi Ri Na Deise,
“The next line of ‘The Soldiers Song’ renders that point defunct: ‘whose lives are pledged to IRELAND’”
No, you’ve just reinforced it. Our soldiers are scum whereas yours are pledged to Ireland. FM, what age are you?
Hi Greagoir,
Couldn’t disagree with anything you said. What I was getting at was your use of “belief” in a UI. I’m not sure Italians would say they “believe” in Italy as such.
BTW, who’s the Mayo man? Patrick? I went to school in Downpatrick. About half a mile from the stone.
Congal, The Mayo man in question is Brian Boru who is infact said to buried instead in the grounds of St. Patrick’s Cathedral, Armagh and he was given the title ‘Emperor of the Irish’ after his victories against the Norse and Danes!
Pardon my use of the English language, ‘believe’ was the wrong word I used.
Hi Greagoir,
Fair enough. I’m not sure that’s the case for a lot of nationalists. For example “our day will come” demands a certain amount of belief. Then you have the main political party named the “warriors of destiny” whose main aim is a UI. The destiny part suggests to me that they think that a UI is inevitable. It seems to me (genuinely) that most nationalists “believe” in UI, rather than from a moral or political point of view.
BTW, I didn’t know Boru was buried in Armagh. Cheers. I thought of him as a high king – not the king of a UI.
Congal, you went to school much less than half a mile from the stone. I used to duke down the grove during cross country running.
Congal claen’
‘I thought of Brian Boru as a high king – not the king of a UI.’
You will address Brian Boru by his proper title ye little bollix !
He was crowned ‘Imperator Scotorum’ at Armagh and if was’nt for a skulking scandinavian runaway called Broder -Boru would have left behind a strong dynasty which would have successfully defended Ireland against the later Norman invasion just like King Harold did in England
Hi Greenflag,
Emperor or not he wasn’t king of all Ireland. Unless it was the 26 county Ireland. Or is that the other thread ;0)