Parade and protest
After my invitation to join me on a walk in Belfast this morning only one Slugger reader came along. The following is a taste of our day and the photos, mostly provided by Gerard, are on Flickr. A big thanks to Gerard for providing some great company. Unfortunately logistics meant despite best intentions we couldn’t get to every aspect but we gave it a good go
UPDATE: Youtube footage now added (one of the UDA groups arrives at 6:18)
This blog entry needs a joint credit – Gerard, I couldn’t have done it without you. ThanksWe met up at 10am before heading into the town via the Falls Road. Passing Dunville Park where SF were assembling it was a mass of high visibility vests with marshals greatly outnumbering any early protesters but groups of people were congregated around shops near the park.
At Divis Tower the éirígí protest had attracted around 200 and a throng of journalists, the riot squad had formed up 100 yards down the road with 25 landrovers, around 200 police men, and dog units. We hung around for a bit before heading into the city centre.
Passing College Square North we noted the presence of 2 parked water canons which weren’t used.
At Fisherwick place, the arrival point of the SF protest, a crowd of around 1,000 had already started to gather – this number was to swell hugely later.
Round at the city hall the streets were lined by 10s of thousands of well-wishers. The atmosphere was light and carnival like. Then at three stages the crowd erupted with cheers as groups 100s strong marched towards city hall down the centre of the road – it became apparent that two of these groups had numerous well known UDA figures the other UVF figures – it was pretty clear these were the paramilitary contingent.
Then, I made my way back towards the eirigi protest while Gerard stayed at Fisherwick Place. Arriving back on the Falls Road the eirigi protest parade was slowly moving towards police lines headed by yet more marshals in high visibility vests. I rang Gerard suggesting he come back to this protest but he was prevented from getting near by the PSNI and from his report was close to arrest for pursuing the issue.
As eirigi came towards the police blockade an announcement was made over a loudspeaker that the parade was illegal and participants could be subject to arrest. In response an eirigi member made an announcement over their loud hailer ‘This is an eirigi announcement, ignore that announcement. We will be walking on this road’.
As the protesters stood face to face with the police a PA system was erected and speeches started. The initial announcement was that with regret Relatives for Justice would not be attending and a statement was read on their behalf.
Then Brenda Downes, whose husband John was killed by the RUC at a protest rally in 1984, addressed the crowd. At this point the police helicopter which had been high overhead descended to a much lower level and my ability, and I assume that of the protesters, to hear the speech was greatly reduced.
After Brenda, eirigi chairperson Brian Leeson made an address and of what I heard two lines got the loudest response
“As proud Irish Republicans we will march on our streets without asking their permission”
And the much more interesting
“The day will come when we fight them, today is not that day”
Brian then announced the intention to turnaround march back up the road and disperse. At this point I decided I’d make a move back towards the city centre.
Back in Fisherwick Place Gerard had managed to get himself into the centre of things as his photos show and I was on the fringes of a by now greatly swollen, tense and hostile group of 5,000+.
As the SF protest started to march down the Grovensor Road the crowd began to sing.
We were treated to:
”Home, home on the range”
“Do you want a pastie supper Bobby Sands”
And then the Rangers classics – The Famine song and The Bouncy which was accompanied by much bouncing.
To shouts of ‘Gypsies’, ‘scum’, much more and various hand gestures the shinners edged closer at which point members of the crowd that had scaled scaffolding started a barrage of fireworks and bottles that continued intermittently until well after the parade had passed.
Then the drum beat struck up from within the grounds of Inst, received a huge cheer and the soldiers marched out onto the road to what I assume was the RIR regimental march which was followed by Onward Christian soldiers as the parade passed the demonstrators.
Most of the soldiers marched stony-faced but a few couldn’t keep huge grins off what were often frighteningly young faces that couldn’t have had too many occasions to need a razor.
The crowd at Fisherwick Place went mental as they passed saving a massive roar for the RIR contingent who followed the other soldiers. A small group followed them on their way but the majority preferred to stay on for more jeering at the shiners and sporadic missile throwing.
Then the shinners turned, left and the crowd started to disperse.
So then on along the route of the parade where the majority of well wishers were and a much lighter atmosphere to try and see what was happening at the Markets and the answer to that was not a lot – things may have been in the process of breaking up but at Friendly street there were small groups of residents clustered about and a demonstration of around 30 with 32CSM and RNU banners on the road outside the St George’s Market.
As we arrived a policeman politely asked them to break up and they politely complied.
And that was my Sunday morning in Belfast. How was yours?
And here is some video:
“I would like someone to explain why Sinn Fein (and Relatives for Justice etc) are protesting about the deaths of civilians at the hands of the Army during the Troubles (160 according to Table 18 in Lost Lives) when PIRA killed 636 civilans or four times as many (Table 20 – and at the risk of repeating myself from other threads none of their other killings were acts of war justifiable under any International Treaty – which is why the lily is not the equivalent of the poppy)?
And finally can someone also explain why Gerry Kelly a man convicted of offences in relation to the killing of a civilian in a bomb explosion is the keynote speaker at their rally? Is it intentional irony or unbelieveable hypocrisy?”
I’ll answer your questions Pete Brown…
Leaving aside the whataboutery of ‘The Troubles’ and Irish history….(we are all too well aware of who done what to who etc… and we can all engage in the never ending cycle of insulting each other), but indeed, it is hypocrital of Sinn Féin on this occasion for the reasons you stated above!
There will never be harmony and unity of both communities in NI when folk are only willing to point the finger of blame but fail to admit their own past crimes, misdemeanors against their opponents. Both Republicans and Unionists are culpable of this at times, trying to claim the high moral ground! And it is contradictory of Sinn Féin this time, considering they urge Unionists folk to forget the past and move on, when anytime victims of IRA bombings are mentioned!
However, by constantly haranguing disgruntled Unionists in such a way, Sinn Féin’s goal of a ‘United Ireland’ will never materialize! In fact, it’s jeopardizing it. An acceptance of the Unionist character and their British culture has to be acknowledged first and foremost by Republicans. As Adams said in conversation with Martha Teichner of CBS news, 2006…
“But I think as republicans, we are the people who have a vision of a united Ireland, who are the people who know that Protestantism and its radical and democratic tradition is the rock on which Irish republicanism was formed. You know, the founding fathers and mothers of modern Irish republicanism came from that mostly Presbyterian Church of Ireland tradition. And we have the vision that Orange and Green can be brought together and can live in harmony and peace and work out our own affairs.”
Well, Sunday’s parade was an expression of the Orange, and like it or not, but Irish Republicans should be far more considerate and tolerant of such expressions of British culture. If not, well then no need to talk of a United Ireland while waving a flag of Green, White and Orange!
Anyway, It was a relief that everything past off peacefully yesterday despite the tension at times as described. It was quite plain to see that the cheering crowds were ecstatic and elated to welcome home their British troops on parade.
Kinda a bit ironic in a way to see the 2 Irish wolfhound mascots and Union flags inscribed with the corrupted Gaelic Irish ‘Faugh a Ballagh’
I am indeed being pedantic, but it is a point of some significance, especially in NI where sectarian attitudes and behaviour are found right across the social spectrum, and where so-called respectable politicans have very often had links with terrorists. Rabelais’ flotsam and jetsam of any class definition is a good short one. It seems to me to be an important concept for Marx, given the importance he gives the lumpenproletariat in enabling Louis Napoleon to overthrow the Republic.
Rabelais
But let’s not let Garibaldy put us off I think he’s being pedantic.
LOL!
Regarding my scientifically arrived at stat of 99%, you must agree that very few burglars are toffs. And that’s only one example. When was the last time you saw a gentleman rioting or even vandalising public property? Face it: it’s the proles who cause all the bother.
“I got a question from a Canadian friend today as a result of the parade: why are Irish Republicans so against Remembrance Day when so many other Allied countries (i.e. that they have never been in conflict with) also respect and mark it?”
The answer is obvious. The entity that Irish Republicans swear loyalty to – the Irish Republic of 1916 – was not an Allied Country at any point in time. Nor was the Irish state during WW2.
The IRs always claim to be at war with Britain, so they are hardly likely to like or respect something that they see as being British. They don’t like signs of it on the island of Ireland, and they are exposed to it from being so close to GB as well.
They aren’t exposed to the commemerations in places like Australian and Canada, so they don’t care that it is an Allies thing – they just see it as being British. And thus foreign in their view.
Maggie,
The Pink Panther had a gentleman thief in it. But more’s to the point no self-respecting gentleman is going to be caught throwing bricks and bawling in the street (well, not after graduation from Oxford anyway). He’ll get the proles to do the dirty work. And then stand around and wring his hands and shake his head at the unfolding tragedy. Historically isn’t that how things are done around here? Stir up trouble with blood and thunder rhetoric (the articulacy provided by a good education) then piss off back to the golf club to watch the horror unfold on the news, at least 99% of the time…
Rabelais
Historically isn’t that how things are done around here?
I know who you’re alluding to but I won’t be drawn :^)
Irish Republicans should be far more considerate and tolerant of such expressions of British culture. If not, well then no need to talk of a United Ireland while waving a flag of Green, White and Orange!
The idea that republicans should not publicly express their opposition to the British Army’s presence in the North is ridiculous, and is certainly not implied by the GFA or the colours in the tricolour.
If such a position was implicit in the latter, then they should also be entitled to parade through Dublin.
steve: Whiterock riot repleat with brandished sword
Was that a gentleman, then? The word ‘gentleman’ is being casually flung around here, but I doubt that particular man qualified as a gent on any subtle, casual or archaic definition.
“theres an answer peter brown I just don’t expect you are smart enough to understand it”
Oh indulge me and let me try – or has Greagoir already given me the answer? I may not be as smart as you (lol) but maybe if you take me through it step by step in words of no more than 2 syllables I might grasp at least one of the elements of this complicated answer….
“If such a position was implicit in the latter, then they should also be entitled to parade through Dublin.”
eh no, Dublin is not part of the UK runciter. Neither is there a substantial amount of Unionists living in the ROI either!
NI is the bit of Ireland in question that remains under British governance (the GFA, SAA asserts that, etc…..) which is to be shared by the 2 communities, the 2 traditions having mutual respect for each other! A united Ireland can only come about through the consent of a majority of the NI people…ie the Unionists have to be on board too!
Peter, sorry for the complicated answer but here goes again….
“I would like someone to explain why Sinn Fein (and Relatives for Justice etc) are protesting about the deaths of civilians at the hands of the Army during the Troubles (160 according to Table 18 in Lost Lives) when PIRA killed 636 civilans or four times as many (Table 20 – and at the risk of repeating myself from other threads none of their other killings were acts of war justifiable under any International Treaty – which is why the lily is not the equivalent of the poppy)?
– One is an annual, one is a bulb, but both flowers mean alot to alot of people!
And finally can someone also explain why Gerry Kelly a man convicted of offences in relation to the killing of a civilian in a bomb explosion is the keynote speaker at their rally? Is it intentional irony or unbelieveable hypocrisy?”
– unbelieveable hypocrisy!
Reader
Was that a gentleman, then? The word ‘gentleman’ is being casually flung around here, but I doubt that particular man qualified as a gent on any subtle, casual or archaic definition
I would hazard a guees he considers himself a gentleman. All evidence aside of course
Peter Brown,
Interesting question ? To answer fully could you give some more of your statistics such as how many Catholics were murdered by loyalist groupings , uda, uff, lvf, uff etc etc during the troubles ? How many Protestants ?
You know, the same guys piggy backing on Sundays parade .
Also , How many UDR & British soldiers convicted of murder / manslaughter ? And how many of the same convicted of coluding with loyalist murder gangs ?
If you can provide that then I would be in a better position to answer your question with as many facts at hand as possible
http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=Sb00agFsZko
Cut and paste link to see extent of loylists behaving like neanderthals
I think you guys are using an awful broad brush re the lumpen proles, and ignoring completely white collar crime that is much more sophisticated but dangerous. An official inquiry into Harold Shipman established that he murdered 215 of his patients, thats more than some military commanders or even NI’s own paramilitary style commanders…..
At least with the lumpen you know what you’re getting, robbies and selling drugs and the like, but with the more sophisticated stuff of white collar crime the lumpens crime can and sometimes does pale into insignificance.
Bad neighbourliness doesn’t only exsist in crisis loan estates, its in the suburbs too. I remember a programme on about neighbours from hell, and the most frequent example of bad neighbourliness came from those who had boundary disputes or over grown hedges. Sometimes taking such a minor dispute way over the top.
So lets not throw the lumpen proles under the bus without first recognising they aren’t alone.
But more’s to the point no self-respecting gentleman is going to be caught throwing bricks and bawling in the street
Wasn’t Peter Robinson caught and fined for it south of the border?
“I would like someone to explain why Sinn Fein (and Relatives for Justice etc) are protesting about the deaths of civilians at the hands of the Army during the Troubles (160 according to Table 18 in Lost Lives) when PIRA killed 636 civilans or four times as many?”
I think you misread the question Greg…
“Interesting question ? To answer fully could you give some more of your statistics such as how many Catholics were murdered by loyalist groupings , uda, uff, lvf, uff etc etc during the troubles ? How many Protestants ?”
Of course none of the answers requested are actually necessary for my question (How far is it from Belfast to Dublin? – to answer fully we need to know the distance from the earth to the moon apparently)to be answered but in an attitude of openess so lacking from those to whom I addressed the question according to CAIN Loylaist paramilitaries killed 730 catholics and 234 protestants
“Also , How many UDR & British soldiers convicted of murder / manslaughter ? And how many of the same convicted of coluding with loyalist murder gangs ?”
By roughly counting the convictions for these offences on the thread about 100 reasons to protest I reckon 24 if you include all of the UDR 4 three of whom have subsequently been acquitted but I could be wrong…can I pleeaaasseee have an answer now?
I think you guys are using an awful broad brush
should read
I think some of you guys…..
Posted by Paul McMahon on Nov 03, 2008 @ 09:02 PM
Saw the link Paul. How anyone can defend these loyalist degenerates is beyond me
“If such a position was implicit in the latter, then they should also be entitled to parade through Dublin.”
eh no, Dublin is not part of the UK runciter.
But Greagoir, previously you claimed it was the triclolour that entitled the BA to march in Ireland. Now that that notion has been demonstrated to be absurd, you are claiming that it is down to British ‘governance’. Make up your mind.
the 2 traditions having mutual respect for each other!
Which according to you means that those who support the BA can publicly express their opinions, while those who oppose it cannot. How is this ‘mutual respect’?
A united Ireland can only come about through the consent of a majority of the NI people…ie the Unionists have to be on board too!
You will not convert unionists to nationalism by cheering the British army.
“But Greagoir, previously you claimed it was the triclolour that entitled the BA to march in Ireland.”
– Northern Ireland… as a once off, for just a couple of hours last Sunday morning!
“Which according to you means that those who support the BA can publicly express their opinions, while those who oppose it cannot. How is this ‘mutual respect’? ”
– No, it doesn’t! The protest last Sunday was for the sake of PR. Sinn Féin members of the NI Assembly jumping on the bandwagon and fearful of being upstaged by Eirigi. It was a case of one group trying to be more ‘republican’ than the other!
“You will not convert unionists to nationalism by cheering the British army.”
– I don’t cheer the British Army! The Unionists do that, for they are steeped in the tradition!
“[i]Leaving aside the whataboutery of ‘The Troubles’ and Irish history….(we are all too well aware of who done what to who etc… and we can all engage in the never ending cycle of insulting each other), but indeed, it is hypocrital of Sinn Féin on this occasion for the reasons you stated above!
There will never be harmony and unity of both communities in NI when folk are only willing to point the finger of blame but fail to admit their own past crimes, misdemeanors against their opponents. Both Republicans and Unionists are culpable of this at times, trying to claim the high moral ground! And it is contradictory of Sinn Féin this time, considering they urge Unionists folk to forget the past and move on, when anytime victims of IRA bombings are mentioned!
However, by constantly haranguing disgruntled Unionists in such a way, Sinn Féin’s goal of a ‘United Ireland’ will never materialize! In fact, it’s jeopardizing it. An acceptance of the Unionist character and their British culture has to be acknowledged first and foremost by Republicans. As Adams said in conversation with Martha Teichner of CBS news, 2006…
“But I think as republicans, we are the people who have a vision of a united Ireland, who are the people who know that Protestantism and its radical and democratic tradition is the rock on which Irish republicanism was formed. You know, the founding fathers and mothers of modern Irish republicanism came from that mostly Presbyterian Church of Ireland tradition. And we have the vision that Orange and Green can be brought together and can live in harmony and peace and work out our own affairs.”
Well, Sunday’s parade was an expression of the Orange, and like it or not, but Irish Republicans should be far more considerate and tolerant of such expressions of British culture. If not, well then no need to talk of a United Ireland while waving a flag of Green, White and Orange!
Anyway, It was a relief that everything past off peacefully yesterday despite the tension at times as described. It was quite plain to see that the cheering crowds were ecstatic and elated to welcome home their British troops on parade.
Kinda a bit ironic in a way to see the 2 Irish wolfhound mascots and Union flags inscribed with the corrupted Gaelic Irish ‘Faugh a Ballagh’
Posted by Greagoir O’ Frainclin”[/i]
“the corrupted Gaelic Irish ‘Faugh a Ballagh’”
here we go again. Can’t you end in something which is related to your main argument, Greg?
(by the way, I support ‘Faugh a Ballagh’)
http://ie.youtube.com/watch?v=Sb00agFsZko
More reminiscent of Windsor Park on ‘international’ nights.
‘Rule brittania’, God save the queen, ‘Ulster till i die’ etc…etc…
Some even came in their ni gear.
For those with more experience and knowledge of the issue, what do you think made this parade/protest relatively peaceful (ie not a full-scale riot, no one seriously injured or killed)? Is it the aftermath of GFA/people exhausted by violence? Better civic associations among the people/communities? Tighter/more balanced security forces? Is the failure of the loyalists to start up real trouble a sign of progress?
“But Greagoir, previously you claimed it was the triclolour that entitled the BA to march in Ireland.”
- Northern Ireland… as a once off, for just a couple of hours last Sunday morning!
And now the rationale is no longer related to the GFA, the tricolour, or British governance; it is due to brevity and timing!
How many more excuses will you come up with?
“You will not convert unionists to nationalism by cheering the British army.”
- I don’t cheer the British Army!
No. You just mock those who dare protest against their presence in Ireland.
runciter,
You seem to miss the point that the British Army were parading in the United Kingdom. As an ex-serviceman myself I would be disgusted by any parade by paramilitaries and I for one did not notice any such parade on Sunday. Instead I saw a dignified and respetable parade of veterans of the Afghan conflict. If Sinn Fein really take the view that there should be no marches in Belfast by organsations responsible for the deaths of Irish citizens then they should stop organising parades themselves.
You seem to miss the point that the British Army were parading in the United Kingdom.
I am aware that the North is occupied by the British.
The point was made most forcibly on Sunday.
As I am the one who, not for the first time, aroused Rabelais’ gentle ire, allow me to respond.
First off, not only are the louts who chose (emphasis on free choice, if you have the slightest evidence that some dark machiavellian middle class villain was manipulating these poor ignoramuses I would love to hear of it) to gather like opposing sets of rutting baboons on Sunday morning not “relatively” poor in relation to the Third World, they are in fact not remotely poor at all.
I guarantee that if you visited their homes there would not be the slightest indication of poverty, real or imagined, to be found. Their houses would be warm and comfortably furnished, with every convenience of the modern world available to them. Furthermore I can say with certainty that a huge proportion of these people enjoy their lifestyle courtesy of me and people like me who work and have to meet payrolls and pay confiscatory levels of taxation.
You and Gari then trot out the tired old nonsense that the middle classes are just as bad as the proles but that they are better at hiding the fact. Not so, not remotely so. Are there middle class people who have sectarian opinions? Undoubtedly. Most of us have prejudices about most things but there is simply no equivalent between muttering some off-key remark to a friend over a gin and tonic and going out and tormenting your neighbours and destroying their property, lives and livelihoods. It’s not a question of scale, it’s simply that there is no comparison whatsoever between the two.
I may not like left leaning new Labour types, I might think they’re wrecking the economy, I may believe them to be a complete shower of wastrels, liars and cheats who should be thrown out of office at the first available opportunity, I may say so rather volubly over my third gin and tonic, indeed over the first one and in all probability the sixth too. I do not however believe that my having such opinions would in anyway justify mobs of disaffected Tory louts running riot through the streets of Islington.
For Rabelais to seek some deep inner mystery as to why a bunch of cretinous louts gathered in a street to hurl abuse at each other I can only draw his attention to football hooliganism around the world; there is no deep rooted social malaise, there is simply a problem of ill-mannered, useless, oafish yobbos and louts who enjoy gathering at street corners and behaving like the ignorant proles they are.
I hope this clears up any misunderstanding.
And finally can someone also explain why Gerry Kelly a man convicted of offences in relation to the killing of a civilian in a bomb explosion is the keynote speaker at their rally? Is it intentional irony or unbelieveable hypocrisy?”
The Shankill Bomber, Sean Kelly was also walking with the “Relatives for Justice”. In any normal, civilised society a child killer would be shunned by all decent people, here he’s welcomed with open arms by a “victim”s group- hypocrisy is probably too kind a word.
Anon
I hope you’re not expecting an answer to that point – even if you meet all the preconditions there is nothing but a deafening silence (I should know!)
“For those with more experience and knowledge of the issue, what do you think made this parade/protest relatively peaceful (ie not a full-scale riot, no one seriously injured or killed)? Is it the aftermath of GFA/people exhausted by violence? Better civic associations among the people/communities? Tighter/more balanced security forces? Is the failure of the loyalists to start up real trouble a sign of progress?”
That one is easily answered. Gerry Adams is jetting off to America on a fund raising trip shortly after the US elections. The last thing he wanted the viewers of CNN or Fox News to see was his followers attempting to attack America’s allies during a homecoming parade from America’s wars. Money talks.
I’m sure the point has already been made but isn’t it a sign of improved times that 1000′s of people who hitherto probably didnt know more than 2 or 3 words of Irish, now know the Irish for “Clear the way”.
“I am aware that the North is occupied by the British.
The point was made most forcibly on Sunday.”
Do you recognize the GFA, SAA at all runciter?
With an attitude like that, it appears you do not!
There’s 800,000 and odd folk who view themselves as British citzens living in the north as well. They don’t wish to be part of an Irish nation at all. With an attitude like your own towards them, sure is it any wonder!
Hello Harry,
I’m not seeking some ‘deep inner mystery’ to the belligerent behaviour of a certain section of Belfast’s working class. I’m seeking to understand why such behaviour arises so routinely. I just don’t buy the notion that people are inherently unpleasant (some, maybe, but not that many and to the degree on display recently). With all due respect Harry, I think your comments are a bais against understanding. Your comment that ‘there is simply a problem of ill-mannered, useless, oafish yobbos and louts who enjoy gathering at street corners and behaving like the ignorant proles they are’ simply conceals more than it explains. If we don’t pursue an understanding and explanation of such behaviour our ability to combat it (and I think we’d both like to see less of it) is greatly diminished.
“Your comment that ‘there is simply a problem of ill-mannered, useless, oafish yobbos and louts who enjoy gathering at street corners and behaving like the ignorant proles they are’ simply conceals more than it explains. If we don’t pursue an understanding and explanation of such behaviour our ability to combat it (and I think we’d both like to see less of it) is greatly diminished.”
And of course such a phenomenon is not only unique to NI for ‘anti-social’ youth culture is found the world over. The politics of NI add a further dimension.
I blame mainly the parents for the kids behaviour!How a kid is reared at home has an enormous influence and impact on that individual.
“That one is easily answered. Gerry Adams is jetting off to America on a fund raising trip shortly after the US elections. The last thing he wanted the viewers of CNN or Fox News to see was his followers attempting to attack America’s allies during a homecoming parade from America’s wars. Money talks. ”
Surely one man doesn’t have that much power over the masses, on both sides? Interesting, though, and something I didn’t even think of – I definitely see that playing into SF’s relative quietness, though.
runciter,
You seem to miss the point that the British Army were parading in the United Kingdom. As an ex-serviceman myself I would be disgusted by any parade by paramilitaries and I for one did not notice any such parade on Sunday. Instead I saw a dignified and respetable parade of veterans of the Afghan conflict. If Sinn Fein really take the view that there should be no marches in Belfast by organsations responsible for the deaths of Irish citizens then they should stop organising parades themselves.
Posted by Intelligence Insider on Nov 04, 2008 @ 12:17 AM
Who are you trying to convice us or yourself, there was plenty of paramilitary displays at Sunday’s parade even the usually tame UTV coverage of the event showed the Irish President’s best friend Mr McDonald’s not so low profile attendance at the military march.
Harry Flashman
Oooh, thank you for a brilliantly argued post!!! Dead right on all counts. But we’re so touchy-feely inclusive these days that we can’t or dare not face up to reality. Some of us anyhow.
If I weren’t over the hill and a granny several times over I’d want to have your babies :^)
“Surely one man doesn’t have that much power over the masses, on both sides? Interesting, though, and something I didn’t even think of – I definitely see that playing into SF’s relative quietness, though.”
Eunice,
He has the power to command $500 a plate dinners. The Yanks may not be the sharpest tools in the box, when it comes to recognising who the bad guys are, but even they would see through a howling Sinner mob attacking soldiers in desert uniform. Hence there would have been very people buying those plates if there had been trouble.
Just thought id post a link of a story about RIR men displaying loyalist paramilitary flags.
http://www.belfastmedia.com/home_article.php?ID=1474
Still waiting…..
Btw how is that a loyalist paramilitary flag?
Because it has no official status, It is a flag used by loyalist paramilitaries and is daubed in a loyalist paramilitary slogan “NO SURENDER”
“If I weren’t over the hill and a granny several times over I’d want to have your babies”
Ach Maggie me dear, how easily you forget, don’t you remember those nights under the barbed wire fence at the back of the Colin Glen Meat factory? You looked so beautiful in the glow of the security arc light, when, having enjoyed our evening’s repast of chips, peas and gravy we finally consumated our love back in 1985.
I do believe that the hellish spawn of our two minute rutting may even have been present at that demo on Sunday morning but no, I’m not available for DNA tests, the Child Support Agency already have me balls in a vice and they’re getting no more out of me sweetheart.
[b]Rabelais[/b], my comments might have appeared over the top, but sometimes it’s necessary to puncture the balloon of sociological nonsense that springs up around communal loutishness.
Such behaviour is as old as humanity, but we had made some efforts in civilising the masses during the past century or so, until some eejits decided that instead of treating loutishness with rubber truncheons and water cannon we actually needed to “understand” better why the morons behaved so.
Call me old fashioned but stick ‘em in borstal for six months and cut off their dole money and you might actually see a marked improvement in manners. Does that make me sound like a reactionary old git? No because I don’t sound like a reactionary old git I actually am one.
Maybe the sociologists are right; perhaps beating the living shite out of rioting lowlifes and depriving them of state benefits won’t improve their behaviour but until such time as the technique has been tried out I remain unconvinced.
“Because it has no official status, It is a flag used by loyalist paramilitaries and is daubed in a loyalist paramilitary slogan “NO SURENDER””
Modernist,
Wasn’t it the flag of the NI Parliament and isn’t ‘No Surrender’ the slogan used by the defenders of the Siege of Derry?
Which makes the tricolour when flown in Northern Ireland a paramilitary flag but I’ll not stoop to your level….I don’t want to look as ridiculous as you
Peter Brown
Btw how is that a loyalist paramilitary flag?
Oh you disingenuous wee lad you! Here’s the Andersonstown News to help you:
The photographs appear on the internet social networking site of a North Belfast RIR soldier and they’re accompanied by messages urging support for Sunday’s parade as well as other deeply inflammatory material including:
l UVF banners
l Pictures of masked loyalist gunmen
l The slogan ‘Kill All Taigs’
l The words ‘ha ha ha’ over a picture of PSNI officers being petrol-bombed.
Harry Flashman
Ah, great times, great times! Our daughter did very well you’ll be pleased to hear. She’s an MLA now. For some reason she has a thing about gays, calling them abominations. What can it all mean? :^)
Ah-hemm…
Maggie and Harry,
If I can just play gooseberry for a moment. maybe you’re right thuggish and loutish behaviour should be rewarded with a custodial sentence… unless of course its a thuggish behaviour associated with the war crime in which case lets sentence them to the international lecture circuit. Or the sort of criminality that almost brings the economy crashing down around us, in which case confine them to their millionaire homes. That’ll teach the bastards…
PS. I have a crush on your daughter. The one who says gays are abominations. I hate her politics but I won’t let that come between us.
Big Maggie,
I wonder then why the Angrytown News went with the harmless picture rather than the other nasty ones?
It’s a girl? Christ, thon wee’un is one ugly minger, she must have took after her ma!
Harry: cheeky bugger!
Blair: could be it was the one with half the squad playing silly buggers.
Rabelais: I’d actually have finished this sentence of Harry’s slightly differently:
Call me old fashioned but stick ‘em in borstal for six months and cut off their …