With both éirígí and SF already declaring protests against the MoD parade in Belfast, British Army Chaplain David Latimer has also expressed disaproval.
I’ve also heard of protests being organised by RNU (Republican Network for Unity) at the Markets and the WSM (Workers Solidarity Movement)
UPDATE: The IRSP and 32CSM will be protesting at the Markets. RSF still intend to be at their annual Edentubber commemoration.
How has Ulster unionism arrived at where it is today – fractured and uncertain, yet dominated electorally by the DUP, a party that tells us it offers unionists sure footing in uncertain times? In his latest book, Ulster’s Last Stand? Reconstructing Unionism after the Peace Process (Irish Academic Press, 2010), Prof. James McAuley from the [...] read our review »
Dr Gordon Gillespie, a researcher at the Institute of Irish Studies at Queen’s University Belfast, gave a presentation on “Graphic Portrayals: Northern Ireland, Graphic Novels and the Peace Process”, at the Linen Hall Library. Gordon started with a clarification that he was going to talk about graphic novels/comic books, not cartoons, and material that was [...] read our review »
The oft-quoted verse from the book of Proverbs, ‘where there is no vision, the people perish,’ (chapter 29, verse 18) opens a new book by Gerry O’Hanlon, A New Vision for the Catholic Church: A View from Ireland (Columba Press, 2011). That verse could be considered an apt summary of the current state of the [...] read our review »
The british army could always cancel their parade and for once do some good in nIreland
Any society that was ‘anti-war’ has long since disappeared.
Switzerland was on the map of Europe last time I looked.
Switzerland was on the map of Europe last time I looked.
Switzerland is far from anti-war! Just try invading them if you don’t believe me.
Swiss Army
No Horseman you presume incorrectly.
If the RIR parade is stopped as SF now suggest then will they agree that every republican pararde through the city centre must also be stopped? And every memorial at the shrines to murderers they have erected across the country?
Parity of esteem is a dangerous concept.
So, KD, when I presume “that you are anti-this-war, but will keep your options open for the future. Just in case, for instance, the next war is one that is unequivocally necessary for you and your society – I am incorrect?
So, if, for example, another country invaded Northern Ireland you would oppose defence? You would simply stand back and let them in?
Or are you luxuriating in Northern Ireland’s isolated position, that allows you to hold such principles.
Would you have been an anti-war Bosnian woman in the early 1990s, or an anti-war Rwandan waiting for the machete? I think not. All of our principles depend on our circumstances, and if those circumstances start to change then so should your principles … or you’re dead!
Garibaldy
“As for autocue’s remarks about getting at the troops. I’m sorry – does being in an army remove moral responsibility? Didn’t we settle that argument in Neuremberg?”
“I have a genuine concern about the attempts to expand the role of the military into civilian life,”
“Historically the army has been a tool of those who have resisted the expansion of rights.”
“This is exactly the type of creeping militarism and expansion of the army into civilian areas that I am talking about. ”
There’s a massive contradiction at the heart of your argument here, since you seem to be advocating the armed forces refusing to accept decisions on military policy made by the democratically-elected government, and mandated by Parliament.
Oh that it could be all just as jolly good fun as V.E. day in Dublin back in 1945 as the TCD students waved Allied flags, UCD students protested and some guy by the name of Haughey burnt a Union flag. Thank God we have all moved on a bit!!
“Would you have been an anti-war Bosnian woman in the early 1990s, or an anti-war Rwandan waiting for the machete? I think not. All of our principles depend on our circumstances, and if those circumstances start to change then so should your principles … or you’re dead!”
Very true!
Horseman – who would want to invade N.I. for heavens sake – get real man. You couldn’t give the place away.
… who would want to invade N.I. for heavens sake …
That is entirely my point. You are relying on the fact that NI is isolated to avoid having to take aa real position on war. NI can afford ‘anti-war’ sentiment because it has no hostile neighbours, but that is hardly a very strong moral position, is it?
And if the whole of NI agreed with you, and NI was independent, you can be certain that someone would notice the opportunity and step in. If they were assured of no armed opposition, I’m pretty sure lots of people, states, criminal gangs, etc, would like to take over the place.
You couldn’t give the place away.
Now I’m sure you’re taking the piss. What the hell has the last 40 years beeen all about?
If it were the Irish Defence Forces marching in a homecoming parade in Belfast with all the usual trappings and paraphenalia, you could very well see Unionists and Republicans changing sides.
Ahh, the hypocrisy of it all.
dont think so yellow. for starters they would have been invited here!
Quite a number of the soldiers in the (Irish) Defence Forces are from the north, particularly Belfast. If Belfast CC invited them to hold some sort of march (when they come back from their current humanitarian mission to Chad), would unionists object?
And there in lies the problem. There’s a lot of rhetoric on this blog about parity of esteem. Two traditions, but only one extensively catered for. The MOD has tried to pretend it is an apolitical homecoming. Let’s see if it works out the way their media savvy spin doctor professes. You’d think they would have learned by now.
Feeding time at the zoo…
I think that is known in the world of blogging and internet forums as a “straw man”…
yellow / horse, do you realise that the ROI is a different country from us? we live in the UK. thats the problem i think, the pretend nationalist world. it sounds like you think that ROI soldiers should parade in belfast for no reason, except because its ireland. is that what your thinking?
(off home now)
Lets face it lads if this was an interment parade you wouldn’t mind but since the uniforms in this parade actually were wore in a area of real war fighting compared to being used by boys doing bank jobs you have a problem.
Also spare a thought for the number of Roman Catholic soldiers in the regiment who have came home not expecting to receive less hostility from the Taliban than there own community.
Eranu. Who’s us? And what makes you assume i live in the UK? It’s this ‘Our Wee Country’ mentality that is deliberately excluding nationalists from engaging in a productive fashion. Open your eyes man, and maybe your heart will follow.
I feel for these soldiers who come back into this sh*tty situation. They don’t deserve this. Unionist and Republicans probably are thinking about the actual soldiers last, but about getting a chance to get at “themmuns” first.
But still, it’s a dumb ass parade. You don’t see whole regiments parading through New York, London, etc everytime they get back from a deployment. Also, the weather is probably gonna be bad anyway. Why would some private want to parade? I would just want to go visit my family and get away from the military after being stuck in that sh*thole known as the middle east/SW asia.
“It’s this ‘Our Wee Country’ mentality ”
What on earth is that supposed to mean??
‘Since you’re being pedantic – that big island is called Great Britain, not Britain. Britain/British has a wider definition,’
Actually Reader if we’re really pedantic, doesn’t Britain refer to just England and Wales. Great Britain refers to these two with Scotland incorporated ? But as you say people can choose to have a wider definition if they choose, however inaccurate that may be.
‘The flag – which includes an Irish component – is nevertheless, all British.’
Like I said, G.Britain/Britain is an island. But those brits like to incorporate irish components wether the irish like it or not….don’t they?
Republicans had a propaganda bonanza over their objections to OO parades which carried very well for political export. Up until Enniskillen. Protests at Remembrance services/parades fell back badly after that. It’s difficult to know what way it’ll go on Sunday. However, it could be a major own goal for the Shinners. Of course, unionism could be let down by some hangers on. It’s just a question of which side bring the biggest tossers. Which is unknowable prior to the event.
Hi Stones,
Ireland, all Ireland, is British by virtue of being in the British Isles. I’m Irish and also British. And unfortunately for you, a chara, so are you.
FYI…
writing around AD 70, Pliny the Elder enumerates the islands he considers to make up the Britannias, listing Great Britain, Ireland, and many smaller islands.
Ptolemy is quite clear that Ireland – he calls it Hibernia – belongs to the group he calls Britannia.
Throughout Book 4 of his Geography, Strabo uses the terms Prettans or Brettans for the islands as a group.
“doesn’t Britain refer to just England and Wales. Great Britain refers to these two with Scotland incorporated”
Does the French help? Isn’t Bretagne a penninsula in France and Grand Bretagne a big island across the Channel.
A remembrance of others who have given their lives in Afghanistan neither Irish or British .
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PEE_qrhvyRI
‘the British Isles’
A term not only inaccurate and out of date but also one which holds no legal or offical weight.
It seems you might like to holiday in Siam and Ceylon as well.
Hi Stones,
Unfortunately, for you, it is up to date and enjoys widespread use throughout the world. It’s the “ourselves alone” attitude of a hundred years ago that is out of date.
Interestingly, Strabo also calls the smaller island Ierne. Which is where the term Ireland comes from. Cherry-picking nationalism at it’s best again. Don’t you care about your heritage?
“Strabo also calls the smaller island Ierne”
Why do you think that was?
‘The British Isles’
Both a geographically inaccurate and politically loaded term.
Jeez you lot will go to any lengths in your attempts to justify the occupation of Ireland and your deluded beliefs.
Unfortunately congal, the term is indeed outdated. Your right that many people do use it, so therefore you seem to be of the opinion that just because alot of say something, it must be right.
Its not the republican attitude thats out of date..its more like this attitude
“Ireland, all Ireland, is British by virtue of being in the British Isles. I’m Irish and also British. And unfortunately for you, a chara, so are you.”
is rather dated don’t you think. infact your attitude reminds me of a funny little interview between an actor and a british interviewer a few years ago.
“Samuel L. Jackson the screen legend was recently interviewed by Kate Thornton on British T.V. about working with Colin Farrell in S.W.A.T. when the following conversation took place:
Kate: What’s it like working with Colin, ‘cos he is just so hot in the U.K. right now.
Samuel: He’s pretty hot in the U.S. too
Kate: Yea! but he’s one of our own!
Samuel: Isn’t he from Ireland
Kate: Yeah, but we claim him ‘cos Ireland is beside us.
Samuel: You see that’s your problem right there. You British keep claiming people that don’t belong to you. We had that problem in America too – it was called slavery.”
P.S
Is Éireannach mé.
Great idea!
Have RIR and RoI regiments parade in Belfast, and Dublin!
Great idea!
Tell the MOD to cancel their parade as many in Belfast find it offensive, just as many towns and cities in Britain have decided that they don’t want British army homecoming marches on thier streets.
If you’re from the West Indies, you’re an Indian?
If you’re from British Columbia, are you British, or Columbian?
If you’re from New Mexico, you’re a Mexican?
Nova Scotia – Scottish?
New England – English?
Historical names do not confer nationality. Law does. And the law (British and Irish) says that people from NI are Irish and/or British acording to thir wishes.
The mainstream British / Irish media seem resolute in its determination to ignore / downplay the potential for disorder here (perhaps because they are sick of the whole Norn Iron business and / or have paid off their local correspondents). But we are sleepwalking into conflict here. And no-one seems to want to pull the situation back.
When the proverbial shit hits the fan here on Sunday I know who I will hold primarily responsible – the British Ministry of Defence.
Everyone is enjoying hyping this up, more like: it’s going to be a damp squib. This ‘sleepwalking back to conflict’ dire prediction is stupidly over the top.
It’s nowhere near the threshold for a national UK news story at this point, especially at this time of Actual Stories (recession, American election etc, actual conflict in Middle East). Should the Six O’Clock News and Channel Four News be running features based on the ranting of a few posters on forums like this and some posters on the Falls and the Shankill?
IMO at worst, there will be a day of shouted insults, and a few lobbed missiles between pissed spides before everyone is funneled home safely by the cops.
Watch this space. People here just love the idea of a looming apocalypse. Not gonna happen. Relax yourselves, those of you who aren’t enjoying a nostalgic frisson.
Any truth in the rumour that Eirigi and SF are to picket cinemas showing “Quantum of Solace” with its British intelligence and imperialist outlook.
Should films like this be shown here where Irish nationalists have suffered for thousands of years at the hands of MI5 etc? Weren’t MI5/MI6 and their UDR lackeys also responsible for the famine?
‘IMO at worst, there will be a day of shouted insults, and a few lobbed missiles between pissed spides before everyone is funneled home safely by the cops.’
I agree Polly, doubt their will by any major disturbances, much to the disappointment of the ambulance chasers and keyboard Generals on here.
The éirígí crowd won’t get past Castle Street(no doubt will throw a few bricks), The Shinners are restricting their counter demonstration to 500 and a couple of hundred IRSP at Cromac Square.
Off course their may be some problems away from the City Centre with loyalist supporters returning from the parade past flash points, but i would presume the loyalist paramilitaries will have some sort of marshalling process in place.
For example, loyalists are planning to meet at the Conn club in East Belfast before making their way to the RIR parade, and i expect that their is some kind of organisation to this event to stop attacks on Catholic homes en route.
horseman
british columbian
novs scotian
@ Drift at 08:37…..you need a hug !
‘
Andrew
I think you assume to much about the loyalists
and as they say assuming makes an ass out of u and me
PS do the loyalists have a parade permit?
RS
Only joking! We all know it was Brigadier Frank Kitson who arranged the potato blight. You can buy a halloween mask of him in Glenanne. Scares the shit out of nationalist kids apparently.
There’s no doubt about it: there will be no major trouble on Sunday. I doubt there will be anything past minor skirmishes, if that. Much as some people here would clearly relish August 69 again, and already having apportioned the blame, it ain’t gonna happen. It will be a funny wee parade, a boys’ own flypast and a damp squib smattering of protests.
‘Sleepwalking into conflict’ might be a good line for a book, or a film, but it’s laughable in relation to the looming non event. I’ll see you back here on Sunday night to collect my metaphorical winnings :p
Is it just me, or has anyone else noticed a recent slump in Drifts demeanour?
I think I was right….you need a hug.
Historical names do not confer nationality. Law does. And the law (British and Irish) says that people from NI are Irish and/or British acording to thir wishes.
Posted by Horseman on Oct 28, 2008 @ 07:13 PM
Surely British citizenship is automatically conferred on people born and bred in NI…. Irish citizenship is a right that has to be exercised….
Polly Anna,
You seem very confident about this. I hope you’re right. However with various flavours of the IRA (including the INLA) and loyalist paramilitaries on the streets I just can’t see where the happy ending comes from. I am deeply cynical about the capacity of the PSNI to contain any violence that may arise (and undoubtebly violence – i.e. conflict – will arise).
If the PSNI get stuck into nationalists while loyalists cheer them on what do you think the outcome will be? God forbid that there should be any ‘martyrs’ – of either the living or dead varieties.
This march is irresponsible and should be called off.
As an addendum to my previous comments I did not state that this story should be a leading story in the news in either Britain or the South. However I have not seen it mentioned at all in any of the press which worries me, particularly as: homecoming parades for troops have not been taking place in British cities due to the strength of anti-war sentiment; and paramilitary organisations with a penchant for violence are mobilising for and against this one. I understand that the British and Irish governments are preoccupied with the financial crisis but it seems to me that they have gone o sleep on this one.
We do not need violence on our streets. Call the damned thing off.
OH, THE HUMANITY!
Don’t worry, it’s going to be fine. As long as you’re OK with a minor bit of squabbling and a couple of hurled beer tins between spides some distance from each other and a bit of pissed verbal.
At worst.
How come éirígí or SF were not at Castlebar holding a protest parade on October 7th when 500 veterans (British & Irish) paraded through the town. Read Roy Garland’s article
“Right or wrong, acknowledge sacrifice” 26th Oct Irish news
‘On October 7, 500 members and 30 standard bearers of Irish and British ex-service persons’ associations paraded through Castlebar in county Mayo led by Castlebar Town Band.
They were followed by 100 schoolchildren while other children and citizens lined the route to give the veterans a warm welcome. When everyone had taken their seats at the Peace Park, a 107-strong guard from an Irish-speaking unit were inspected by the Republic’s president Mary McAleese who opened the event. Irish Guards, including drummers and pipers in full uniform, played military tunes in the presence of Irish, British and international dignitaries.
The Peace Park boasts a large memorial wall similar to the US Vietnam Wall and inscribed with over 1,000 names of Co Mayo service people who fell during the First World War.
An impressive array of smaller monuments commemorate those who died in the Second World War, Vietnam, Korea and in British, US, Canadian and Australian uniforms.
The previous night an Irish Guards band and a Liverpool ex-service Irish Guards Choir played and sang at a memorial concert.’
http://www.irishnews.com/articles/540/606/2008/10/27/601231_361478714362Rightorw.html
Peace Park Opening Concert and Ceremonies
By Jack Loftus 13, Oct 2008 – 10:15
http://www.castlebar.ie/JLoftus/More_Peace_Park.shtml
Sombre note as President opens Mayo Peace Park
By: Keith Bourke
http://www.westernpeople.ie/news/story/?trs=eykfsneyey
MAYO MEMORIAL PEACE PARK
http://www.mayomemorialpeacepark.org/contact.html
http://www.politics.ie/culture-community/35090-mayo-memorial-peace-park.html
http://www.mayomemorialpeacepark.org/
http://www.castlebar.ie/JLoftus/More_Peace_Park.shtml