Parades Commission & Andytown News give British Army their approval
The Parades Commission has approved the British military parade in Belfast on 2nd November, including last minute changes to their application moving the parade back to 11.45 and an additional band. They also restricted the SF counter-protest. The éirígí protest is unaffected as they did not apply for approval. The Andersonstown News has also backed the parade comparing protestors to Ian Paisley and those that opposed civil rights demands. [will they retract that next week? - Ed]
Update: Parades Commission determination on SF protest
latcheeco has it right. unionism is so blinded by its own sectarianism that it cannot see things clearly. regardless of the wishes of families of returning troops, with which i can sympathize _to some extent_, the rir ‘parade’ was itself pushed forward by the uu and dup as a sectarian provocation. brian walker suggests, somewhere in one of the early posts on this topic, that the ability to hold an unimpeded march through belfast would be a sign of the ‘maturity’ of this society. i would suggest the exact opposite: the dup are pushing this triumphalist parade through in belfast, and are being supported by MOD in doing so, in part because there is nowhere else in the uk they could get away with it absent a massive counterprotest from the antiwar movement. it is being forced upon us precisely because of our immaturity, and the unique willingness of unionism to bow down for, send off their young as cannon fodder for, empire. mod is quite obviously playing with fire, though, because they are very much aware that a substantial section of the community view the charade as a calculated affront. they are deeply implicated in whatever results.
on the nationalist/republican side, sf is playing catch-up here: eirigi called the march, and much as many posters out here want to put them down as ‘blue-baggers’ etc., the real problem for sf and the establishment here generally is that eirigi are not stupid. they are not ‘dissidents’ in the sense that the general public has been made to understand that epithet. and it is telling that the news letter, in particular, has felt compelled to resort to such flagrant distortion anytime they discuss them.
spot the difference, for example:
‘Unionism needs to get real – it is the British army and their supporters who will be bringing the weapons of war into Belfast city centre on November 2, not Irish republicans.’
eirigi, 22 0ctober
‘last night the dissident republican group organising the demonstration, Eirigi, broke its public silence on the matter to insist that it would be peaceful and they would not be bringing weapons into the city.’
belfast news letter, 23 October
clearly the unionist press are doing the bidding of the dup in trying to stir up sectarian tensions from all this. predictably, liberals who have long reconciled themselves to the status quo here are turning their venom against anti-rir protestors and letting the bigots off the hook. the at news and o’millionaire position is a bit shocking, but his evolution has been clear for a long time ,and i’m told that his newly purchased ‘irish echo’ has endorsed john mccain in the usa: clearly a newspaper that has made its peace with imperialism.
i am disappointed that eirigi have not yet made more of an effort to cut through all the rubbish that has emanated from the unionist press over the past week, and to appeal directly to working-class protestants, because in my view they have more to offer ordinary protestants than the dup, which is prepared to see pensioners in the village dying of fuel poverty while hosting million-pound junkets for american corporate executives.
eirigi poses a political threat to the establishment here, not a military one, and that’s far more dangerous. its easy enough to write off opposition to the gfa when it comes from militarists being run or heavily penetrated by state security. but there is massive disaffection with the assembly and the sectarian circus all around, and especially in working class areas n both communities. that will get worse as the economy goes into nosedive. to date, only the sectarian right have made any gains from this disaffection. things may take a different turn though, as they have in the south.
“I am being pragmatic not dogmatic. The reality is that parades of this nature would face little opposition from the citizens of Lisburn, Castlereagh, etc. Not so Belfast.”
picador:
You are not being pragmatic. You are being silly.
It is not only local citizens who are going to be protesting at this parade. If you haven’t noticed the eirigi propaganda, they are bussing people in from various points on the island. They are a smallish ‘movement’ and thus need to bus in their supoporters from all over the place.
And as I said before their dogma would lead them to protest here – assuming that they are telling the truth – no matter where in NI the parade was. They claim they oppose this war and the history of the British military on the island of Ireland. Does that view change if said parade takes placves in Ballymena or Lisburn?
This isn’t about Belfast according to them. It’s about the presence of British troops on what they see as Irish streets.
“That is also why SF were forced/embarrassed into scrambling a bigger (we have more support than you) protest.”
latcheeco:
So as I said above this isn’t about dampening the potential threat of a violent action by eirigi, and it IS all about being seen to be out-greening eirigi. In other words it is the post-republican Provos engaging in a pissing match with eirigi to try to show that they are still true republicans and that they are more republican than eirigi.
Do the Provos fear eirigi that much?
Surely the mature thing to do would have been to let eirigi protest and let everyone see how little support they had.
Is the point of this to show that the Provos still have their finger on the pulse of republicanism (both the true sort and the self-described republicanism of Provo supporters) and that the Provos speak for the ‘republican family’? Is this all about not wanting to be seen sitting at home while a small outfit like eirigi get off their arses and oppose the Brits?
The Provos are in a sad state if they think they have to engage in kneejerk reactions to what minor IR groups do. Do they think that the support that they get is that fickle, and would move to one of the true IR groups if the Provos don’t play along and keep pretending that they are still true IRs?
“Not to be a pedant, but the north isn’t actually british”
RepStones:
Actually it is.
Your opinion that it is Irish is just that – an opinion.
If a majority of the people of NI decide to make it Irish then it will become Irish.
You can play with names all you want, it doesn’t change the fact that NI is part of the UK and is thus British. Isn’t that what you folks are struggling against – that fact that it is British?
If it already is Irish then what are you struggling about?
“It is even less egalitarian to suggest that those who support it should be allowed to express their view publically, but not those who oppose it.”
runciter:
And who is proposing that?
What I see are nationalists whining about the parade itself and asking various bodies to call the parade off.
As a unionist I see no problem with nationalists protesting at the parade if they want, so long as they are not violent.
I see Eoghan Quigg from Dungiven is participating in a fundraising drive for the Brit Occupation Forces, on X Factor!
http://www.thesun.co.uk/sol/homepage/news/campaigns/our_boys/article1781291.ece
A new front for the protesters opens, no doubt.
“the dup are pushing this triumphalist parade through in belfast”
dessa:
How is it triumphalist? It is about troops returning from Afghanistan, where there hasn’t been any triumph yet. These troops are returing from a current war that is still in progress.
Or is your point that it is really a parade to celebrate the triumph of HM Forces over Irish Republican terrorists in the conflict that was more or less ended by the Provos giving up?
If you accept that this was a triumph by HM Forces over the Provos then maybe you do have a point. The Provos certainly didn’t achieve what they called their ‘war aims’.
Is this really all about the hurt feelings of supporters of the Provos, who see HM Forces celebrating their victory over the Provo terrorists?
And who is proposing that?
You were endorsing the Andytown News proposal that there should be no protest (pg2 post 19).
You also implied that such a position would be consistent with equality – which is demonstrably not correct.
I’ll grant that you have not been very consistent, and that you may have taken a contrary position elsewhere.
‘If a majority of the people of NI decide to make it Irish then it will become Irish’
LMAO, Im sorry but that is just pure sh**e. The north of Ireland not being Irish??? As you alluded to the UK, perhaps you may call out the full name of the United Kingdom for those at the back of the class.
While your at it remember Britain is an island. Going by your logic the Green Zone in Iraq is American soil. Utter nonsense.
‘Isn’t that what you folks are struggling against – that fact that it is British?’
Eh no, merely that it is occuppied by the british govt. Again you seem to think that because a foreign power rules over a piece of land, it magically turns into something it is not. Tibet is Chinese and Iraq is american eh?
Give me that one again about the north of IRELAND not being Irish. Perhaps you should stay in Freedonia.
Harpo,
I wouldn’t say “fear” exactly and I didn’t mention the “provos.” But I was talking about SF, who I would imagine are at least a little nervous of their exposed flank while they’re in power with a party who not so long ago wanted to issue Catholics with id cards so they could be allowed to leave the ghetto. SF know the history of Irish Republicanism as well as anybody. They have often been a micro group themselves and being the establishment is uncomfortable for any subversive.
The point about the march is not that people do not have sympathy for individual soldiers and their families but that having a loud unionist fanfare about the British Army marching through Beal Feirste central is buck stupid and deliberately provocative (and even counter productive if they really had wanted a dignified parade) and as much as having their team march in lock step through a shopping precinct helps one community’s need to feel secure that their Britishness is appreciated and understood, it is a coat trailing exercise to the other community and any moron could see it would be viewed as such. It is reminiscent of how poppies are used by some as much as a badge to assert identity as to commemorate brave and honorable sacrifice.How does having military parades by one side through a divided city help anybody that is really interested in fostering a new disposition? Driftwood’s and others’ nonsensical implications about the RIR being good Brits as opposed to the UDR being bad Brits are blatantly disingenuous given the regiment’s strongly Orange culture and the history of the regular British army in Ireland.
Reading in the press today that loyalist paramilitaries are saying they will be in attendence next week, in support of the RIR parade.
It ties in with the RIR flags being erected by loyalists over the weekend.
Seems that the paramilitaries are planning an active role in next weeks crowd organisation/manipulation.
Harpo,
The Eirigi question for Sinn Fein is that someone is apparantly trying (whether you agree with them or not or whether they are having success or not) to give Gerry the alternative he was asking/taunting for at all those family meetings and if it wasn’t causing ripples they would have: 1. Ignored the whole thing as normal unionist stupidity that suits nobody.
2.Taken the high road rather than get involved in something that from their point of view could descend into disaster for everybody.
That the ATN thought it necessary to get involved by calling protesting against the Brits wrong and silly was stunningly blind in its potential to be brought up by unionists at a later date to justify and allow their marching shenanigans and an incredible thing for any Irish nationalist to write. Whether the question is specious or not the ATN will be left trying to explain why if there’s no sweat about the British Army marching through Beal Feirste why is there a problem with British people marching down the Garvaghy Road.
McGuinness had no complaints with GWB visiting here a few months ago, and neither did the Tooting Popular Front/Eirigi. It looks like a bunfight mext Sunday with, once again, the police and the Army in the middle, trying to separate the two ‘gangs’. Same old same old….
Well Drift, as he said he raised the issue of Iraq with Bush, what would you prefer? Him to do a Paisley http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=-gdREMz_w9I and make an utter fool of himself?
RS
I despise Paisley. BUT, why doesn’t McGuinness quietly raise his concerns about our troops in Iraq and Afghanistan with John Hutton, our Defence Secretary, in the House of Commons? Or even with our leader, at Prime ministers question time? Surely, our UK Parliament is the place for our MP’s to be airing their views? Isn’t that why they were elected?
Driftwood,
Whether you dream otherwise or not, half the population in the North and most if not all of the population in the rest of Ireland thinks your government are foreigners interfering in their country, your army are murderers and that their parliament is Dail Eireann. The honest broker crap has long since been debunked by anybody serious because your noble army chaps were running one of the gangs. Pretend your army was neutral and noble if you want but most nationalists who lived under their occupation believe otherwise and resent them marching through Irish towns as if its now all good and they’re over it.
There’s a lot of anger here being vented at unionist posters who are just doing what they do: applauding the fact that ‘Northern Ireland’ is as British now as it has ever been, as will be evidenced when the Brit army tramps around Belfast.
Te proper direction of this anger should be the Provos / SF, who settled for absolutely no change in the constitutional status of the six counties in return for…well, apart from their own cosy jobs, nothing that I can see. Not even an Irish Language Act! And the arms which so many died and suffered for to bring here and free our country were surrendered for this? And now they want to ‘protest’?
Look forward to seeing them standing down on this one to ‘take the moral high ground’. It’s a con. They’re administering British rule in exactly the same way as any official on a GB country council.
Drift that was so facetious it bordered on childish. You know full well the Shinners position regarding taking thier seats in that foreign legislature. That said, you never know, they may one day out stoop the stoops.
‘applauding the fact that ‘Northern Ireland’ is as British now as it has ever been’
Not at all, in other words.
Also i thought this parade was about welcoming home troops, not aplauding the fact the north is still under British occupation? I do hope this view is not indicative of the wider unionist community, because then the accusations of triumphalism may indeed find some purchase.
You can hardly blame unionists for being triumphalist when the Provos surrendered in the war without any of their stated war aims being achieved and the union copper fastened, ie: handed them a triumph.
At least the ‘dissident’ protesters know the score.
RS
What foreign legislature? The one SF stand for election to? SF signed up at St Andrews for the defence of NI being a matter for the MoD- The British Army -currently garrisoned here at considerable strength. Though the average squaddie probably earns less from the MoD than most of the SF leadership, who are also on the payroll.
MI5 will have told Gerry and Marty to stay away from next weeks SF hate fest, best leave it to Colin Duffy, Latcheeco and co. Maybe they can get a chance to ‘ice’ a few cops like in Lurgan, not so long ago. I really want CNN to be there to watch the SF/Taliban/FARC movement off the leash.
some sophistication there driftwood. brigadier quality, no doubt. back to your video games now.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Brigadier_Lethbridge-Stewart
My identity has been found out!!!
‘…when the Provos surrendered in the war without any of their stated war aims being achieved and the union copper fastened’
Hang on Unionists tell us it wasn’t a war.
Copper fastened with Dublin input….and dodgy demographics….sure.
At least you admit its triumphalist, thanks for that.
Drift….Soldiers pay now? And Sinn Fein is paid by the Ministry of Defence? Once again your knowledge of the machinations of the british crown forces is truly astounding.
“I really want CNN to be there to watch the SF/Taliban/FARC movement off the leash.”
That’s the real obvious hazard for SF. American networks won’t be there, but sites and blogs will be bombarded by youtubes of Shinners spitting hate at the US Army’s main ally in Iraq and Afghanistan.
There will no doubt be a fair number of Palestinian flags to ram the point home.
“Sinn Fein is paid by the Ministry of Defence? Once again your knowledge of the machinations of the british crown forces is truly astounding.”
No, the British Exchequer. Or do you Irish surrender monkeys deny even that fact?
Drift,
Name calling and felon setting usually mean you’re stung but you’ve got no argument. Your assertion that I support dissidents is as puerile as your asumption that Eirigi are physical force republicans (which they are not and that’s why they are so threatening to you) is ill-informed and ignorant. I know where you’re coming from though. You’ve been brainwashed into believing that any Irish person who disagrees with your opinion must belong to the “terrorwist community.” There’s not a lot of room in your mind for those who don’t fit your stereotype.It might short circuit your wiring. Cheers for the promotion though. You’ve got me feeling all William Wallace now that I’ve rattled your cage. Come on, a big brave soldier like you should toughen up. Don’t take it all so personal. It’s just an argument.
‘No, the British Exchequer.’
Davy I suggest you re-read a few posts, because maybe then you’ll see who had the idea that the Shinners were paid by the British MoD, instead of just barking first.
Surrender monkeys?
Eirigi are physical force republicans ???
Latcheeco, Eirigi/Wolfie Smith might have such ambitions. Take off your Duffycoat and get some sleep. What dreams may come….
Off to bed
I have to work tomorrow Latcheeco, never did fancy the benefits lifestyle, but have a good lie in. You and RS both. ‘night all.
“Surrender monkeys?”
Sorry, which of the PIRA self-proclaimed war aims were achieved before they surrendered their weapons? Do let us know, old chap.
I will have a lie in tomorrow Drift, as it is a bank holiday in the south.
I await more snide asides from you at a later date. Oíche maith !
The North/Wee Six is NOT as British as Finchley, despite what Thatcher said. When Unionists first proposed the RIR march they knew fine rightly that there would be a reaction from within Republicanism/Nationalism so their mock outrage fools no one. Having said that, if we ARE to live together, the RIR should have their parade AND Sinn Fein should be allowed a protest. If Unionists truly believed in ‘British Democracy’ they would be aware that Britain has always had a tradition of free speech and protest (mainland Britain anyway). The most vehement anti-War protests have been in London, Birmingham, Manchester, Glasgow etc. This RIR parade was originally proposed by Unionist politicians and was done so NOT as a show of solidarity to that regiment BUT to rub the noses of Catholics into the ground and wind them up as much as possible. The fact that the Parades Commission has rained on this Unionist love in has thrown the DUP & UUP into a tizzy. They were counting on the PC handing over Belfast City Centre to them for a big Union flag waving frenzy. So we now see the usual Unionist/Loyalist agenda. Having been denied their way they are now stoking & stirring this up as much as possible and calling for 1000′s of Protestants to descend on Belfast next week. The Uncle Andy/Big Mervyn/Red Hand Luke types of the UDA & UVF are also being dangled menacingly by mainstream Unionists as a veiled threat. Like Drumcree and the Orange Order Whiterock/Springfield Road march Unionists are now threatening all sorts of anarchy and revolt if they don’t get their way in the hope that Hugh Orde & the PSNI keep the rebellious Republicans/ Taigs and War dissenters in their place. We have seen this tactic over the last 40 years. Many Loyal Sons still believe that Unionist MIGHT IS RIGHT and cuts across EVERYTHING. There should NOW be an agreement. The RIR should have their parade and dinner dance, Sinn Fein and the anti-War protestors should have their protest and everyone else should go for a walk, take the dog out or take the family for their lunch somewhere.
Driftwood,
You say éirígí had no issue with GWB visiting here recently.
Are you serious?
Surely you checked before you said that?
FYI éirígí protested the presence of the war mongerers Bush and Brown.