Lá Nua le druideadh roimhe Nollaig?
Slugger understands that Lá Nua is to close before Christmas. Belfast Media Group will not be entering the competition for a new weekly newspaper as Gaeilge and a staff meeting is being held tomorrow Thursday to discuss the details of what’s about to happen. Ironically the news came to light as Sinn Féin president Gerry Adams called for support for Lá Nua and said its departure would be a backward step. He was speaking at an event to launch Irish language leaflets produced by Translink in Belfast. Further information on igaeilge.
Cé go bhfuilim brónach faoin nuacht sin, bhí sé chun tarlú. Ag labhairt do chainteoirí m’aois féin i mBÁC ní raibh fios ar bith acu go raibh nuachtán laethúil gaeilge ann go dtí gur chur mé a fíric in iúl dóibh. I mo thuairim chuir Lá is Lá nua ró-bhéim ar chúrsaí teanga in a altanna.
hip! hip! hooray!
I am sure the small minded will celebrate with glee
I wouldn’t celebrate but what I would say is that we have to be careful what we pump cash into with regards to the Irish language.
Yes, there is a need to ensure that it is preserved, however, spending heaps of money translating every official document into Irish is playing buggers.
Is it too Machiavellian to hypothesise that Gerry Adams had wind of the closure of Lá Nua before he issued his press-statement in support of a daily Irish newspaper? Thus enabling him to claim full support but in full knowledge that he would not have to do anything about it?
I agree with The Future’s Bright, the Future’s Orange. Spending heaps of money translating every official document into Irish is ‘playing buggers’ [whatever that means, is it Ulster Scots?] or simply stupid. Lá Nua had sales of over 1,500 per day at its worst, 4,500 at its best. Even at its worst level of sales, more people were reading Irish in Lá Nua on a daily basis than any other book or periodical. The average Irish language book sells a few hundred copies to friends and relatives at best.
Believe you me, the State, whether it be north or south, would prefer to spend countless monies on documents that nobody would read, in either Irish or English, than invest, as per their obligation under the European Charter for Regional and Minority Languages in a newspaper like Lá Nua which people actually did read, albeit a minority.
And for my tuppence worth, there are other ways to spend of heaps of money which are ‘playing buggers’ and they include policing parades of silly men in bowler hats parading in communities where they’ve not been invited to parade. Or silly people building huge bonefires and burning effigies of politicians and causing untold damage to the environment and to the areas in which these fires are erected, all of which has to be cleaned up out of the public purse. That must cost millions every year and does me no good….if I were selfish I would call for it to be stopped but then again that would be halting an expression of culture which those involved consider to have value. Each to his own, I say. But beware of throwing stones if you’re in a glasshouse…
Wow Concubhar, you managed to turn a defence of the Irish language into an attack on unionist culture in one post. No wonder your cause is viewed with such suspicion.
Cnocubhar is right when he says …
“the State, whether it be north or south, would prefer to spend countless monies on documents that nobody would read, in either Irish or English, than invest, as per their obligation under the European Charter for Regional and Minority Languages in a newspaper like Lá Nua which people actually did read, albeit a minority.”
People have to realise that much of the money spend on the Irish language was never requested by Irish speakers or the Irish language movement.
It is simply part of a long standing policy to try and buy us off at every point.
Some people are of course, as ever, up for sale.
We never asked for a translation culture, we aksed for a newspaper etc, but a radical daily newspaper is a bit too hot for Free State bureacrats to handle.
Get rid of Foras na Gaeilge now!!
P.s,
The demise of La has been predicted many times.
I predict that something will arise from the ashes, in fact, I guarantee it.
It’s not an attack on ‘unionist culture’. It’s merely pointing out that culture costs money….even if I disagree with it, I still support it.
An ancient language, with a tradition of great writing, poetry, song etc is culture.
Burning wood, tires, effigies and drinking buckfast out of blue plastic bags is hooliganism.
End of story.
An Irish language publication ceasing to operate is not something to celebrate. On the under hand celebrating a Belfast Media outlet closing is perfectly legitimate.
#
An ancient language, with a tradition of great writing, poetry, song etc is culture.
Burning wood, tires, effigies and drinking buckfast out of blue plastic bags is hooliganism.
End of story.
Posted by Globetrotter on Oct 23, 2008 @ 09:04 AM
welcome to the ireland of equals where if it isnt oirish it isnt culture
An ancient language, with a tradition of great writing, poetry, song etc is culture…(snigger)
Why not just include La Nua as a free sheet within An Phoblacht? Same readership.
“Why not just include La Nua as a free sheet within An Phoblacht? Same readership.”
Ignorance keeps us safe and warm doesnt it?
Your prejudice is not a source of strenght, someday you will realise that I am sure.
Can we try to stick to the serious end of the subject. La Nua began as an independent venture back in 83, I think.
It took a generation of passionate commitment and countless hours of voluntary work to get it going. It’s a crying shame it has gone under.
I just hope that what replaces it proves to be engaging and sustainable.
??
Why (snigger)?
I’ve nothing against “unionist culture”, I was brought up on the Newtownards Road. Bonfire night can’t be described as cultural, no matter how loosely you care to use the term.
I’ve equally nothing against the Irish language, its genuine activists don’t go out of there way to offend anyone.
ggn
In what significant viewpoint would La Nua differ from An Phoblacht? The racing tips on the back pages?
Mick,
Let us not forget that La survived for years on very little money, they took the grant in 1999.
9 years later – Foras killed it off. But La gave Foras the rope, the loaded pistol.
People have to learn that the re-strengthing of a language is a revolutionary concept which Free State civil servants will naturally work against.
I have been saying it for years and have been dimissed as a crank, It is a trap! AHave I not been proved right?
If you take the grants, you will get addicted to them, when you are addicted to them they will close you down – Learn from this people!
The Irish governement will tolerate the Irish language movement and fund it in order to shape its direction, but only in so far as it will fail. Notice all success stories are vigorously resisted, witness the treatment of IME in the South.
As I said, something will rise from the ashes, the question is will it resist the temptation to take the grant, or will it simply repeat the same mistake?
For the love of good read a bit of O Cadhain befor it is too late!
Ignorance is strength….Driftwood….
It’s not as if there are racing tips either on An Phoblacht’s back page or Lá Nua’s back page…. there used to be on Lá Nua….
However you won’t read in An Phoblacht trenchant attacks on Sinn Féin’s failure to stand by the Irish language as were published last February when the newspaper printed the pictures of the SF and SDLP minister on the front page with a question as to their silence when then Culture Minister Edwin Poots first axed the Irish Language Broadcast Fund and then the Irish Language Act…..serious questions were being asked by Lá Nua of Sinn Féin’s avowed support for the Irish language.
It might also be worth noting that the four SF members of Foras na Gaeilge all voted FOR the non renewal of Lá Nua’s contract for a daily paper…. Would they do vote against An Phoblacht?
If you still think Lá Nua is a SF apologist, provide the evidence….
“In what significant viewpoint would La Nua differ from An Phoblacht? The racing tips on the back pages?”
La does not take a party political viewpoint so I would say that is a pretty bit difference?
So La Nua covers local politics from a wide variety of viewpoints, including Unionist? I remain sceptical. But the question remains, if it is not a commercially viable enterprise, should the British Government subsidise such a venture? I seem to remember the Daily Ireland didn’t last the course.
Driftwood,
Yes, there is a unionist column on a weekly business.
However, La Nua is and was alway pro-Irish language, all unionist parties are anti-Irish language, there is a clear conflict of interest of course.
“But the question remains, if it is not a commercially viable enterprise, should the British Government subsidise such a venture?”
It is a good question, I trust you apply same to all cultural enterprises, events etc.
Drift,
If you think banning people is for bad language or being rude, think again. Refusing to engage in conversation, is a yellow, possibly red card offence.
Go in hard by all means, but do us the favour of putting some leg work into your contributions, or butt out!
Lá Nua, until recently, had a unionist columnist, Ian Malcolm. I have no doubt that the only reason he departed is there wasn’t money to pay him. Other columnists also were let go, including myself, earlier, for the same reason.
The British Government signed up to Part 3 of the European Charter for Minority and Regional Languages and, therein, it chose from a multitude of options in the media section to sign up to the part which obliges it to support the provision of a daily newspaper in Irish. That it has, through Foras na Gaeilge, singularily failed to do to ensure that newspaper’s future. Thus the British Government is in breach of its obligations under the Charter, as is Foras na Gaeilge.
Daily Ireland was an entirely separate venture, a commercial proposition, entitled to no protection from the European Charter.
Mick
I’m curious as to why you think i’m not engaging in conversation. All I am doing is asking questions. Some of which have been answered. Surely it’s not too much, for someone from a unionist background, to ask pertinent questions in relation to a subject I have little background knowledge of.
Cnocubhar, et. al.
There is a ‘unionist’ column in TODAYS La – an important insightful column.
I suspect that there may be little if any payment involved as I understand is the case for a number of people who write for La.
Mick,
Perhaps the name mentioned in Cnocubhar’s posts could be removed for obvious reasons.
“I have little background knowledge of.”
Yet you made some strong points on the back of this lack of knowledge.
I makes people less inclined to give you information.
One is better recommended to can questions in a gentlemanly fashion in all walks of life I think, snipe like a angry teenager and the response will be less forthcoming.
Mea culpa – there is still a unionist column in Lá Nua, just the day was changed and that threw me. Good.
There is no doubt a tradition of providing articles for no payment in Lá – but all columnists were paid in my time. That is essential in my view to ensure that a normal relationship exists between the editor and the columnist. ie it’s difficult for an editor to call someone who’s late with a column to ask where the heck is that bloody article if they’re not being paid….. However I do recognise that some columnists who provide their works for free are diligent and would never place an unfortunate editor in that position!
ggn
Fair enough. But Irish language enthusiasts often claim they are not political. In Micks intro he mentioned Gerry Adams support for La Nua. So that automatically raises suspicion. If, however it attempts to be a genuine pluralistic paper, commentors should have no reticence defending such, and be prepared to answer questions. And sometimes my attempts at humour may be taken as cheap sneers. That’s the nature of forums I guess.
Acquisition of funding can sometimes be the worst thing that can happen to any venture, language-based or not. I hope Lá Nua recover from this and continue.
The nay-sayers on this thread should be ashemed of themselves.
hip! hip! hooray!
Posted by jim on Oct 23, 2008 @ 01:51 AM
welcome to the ireland of equals where if it isnt oirish it isnt culture
An ancient language, with a tradition of great writing, poetry, song etc is culture…(snigger)
Posted by ?? on Oct 23, 2008 @ 09:22 AM
Bíodh náire oraibh.
A debate about an Irish language item conducted entirely in English —-LOL
“But Irish language enthusiasts often claim they are not political”
Most Irish SPEAKERS vote like everyone else, knowledge of Irish is not a reason to be excluded from politics. Outwith the Unionist Parties, the Irish language has speakers and supportes in all of Ireland’s political partys, and enemies too.
It is unrealistic to state that an entire group is ‘not political’, it is not like being Plymouth Brethern
I welcome Gerry Adams’ support, he is the MP for the area and vocally supports the Irish language, he should support La.
“genuine pluralistic paper”
I maintain La is pluralistic as far as possible, in as far as strong support for the Irish language permitts.
For example, a unionist writes a column, and whilst he rarely speaks of the Irish language, and when he does it is a plea for understanding for unionists, the commentator is of course a strong supporter of the Irish language, a person for whom Gael and Ulster-Scot are not exclusive terms. Therefore the plurality of La like all other newspapers is relative.
For example, I read the Newsletter on a daily basis, it is not pluralist!
A debate about an Irish language item conducted entirely in English —-LOL
Posted by barnshee on Oct 23, 2008 @ 10:24 AM
Maybe that’s so people like you, who don’t speak the language, can join in? Just a guess….
Barnshee,
What do you find humorous, pray tell?
You can follow this debate and many others on blogs in the Irish language ..
http://igaeilge.wordpress.com
http://andrumamor.nireblog.com/
In an era when many papers may struggle with hard print copy, as opposed to online, surely there is a case for an online paper to continue?
Driftwood,
Is maith an scéalaí an aimsir / Time is a good story teller.
Of course thats what La wanted, but someone in Foras said ‘computer says no’.
Lá were the first local paper to produce a podcast version, if I remember correctly (Conchubhar?). The decision by Foras is wrong. Foras need to look at their own committments here. They are supposed to fund the development and growth of the language, and they are not doing that properly.
Seimi,
“They are supposed to fund the development and growth of the language, and they are not doing that properly”
Do you really believe that?
“They are supposed to fund the development and growth of the language, and they are not doing that properly”
Do you really believe that?
Posted by ggn on Oct 23, 2008 @ 10:57 AM
It’s what they’re ‘supposed’ to do. Whether or not I believe they do it? Sin scéal eile
i find it a bit difficult to comprehend why belfast media group who proclaim to be champions of the irish language can’t keep printing la nua when they are demonstrably equipped financially to do so.
COL
“to sign up to the part which obliges it to support the provision of a daily newspaper in Irish.”
The Charter does not use the term daily.
Just a quick question to those who seem to be against Lá Nua’s continuance – why?
The funding would come from Foras na Gaeilge – money which is specifically, and ONLY, for the Irish language, therefore, it couldn’t be argued that Health, or Education, or whatever, would suffer from it. So why the negativity, and in some cases, outright hostility, derision and celebration at its demise. Is it because you are just anti-anything Irish language, or do you all have some other reason? I’m genuinely curious about this, because without any other reasonable argument, I can only assume that it is the language itself which you are against…
Seimi,
One quick point, I thin kwe should take the time to welcome the use of arguements grounded on cost coming from unionists. If genuine, these arguements are rational.
I remember in Queens years ago, costs didnt come into it. The Irish language was ‘offensive’, full stop. You would also have heard that it was ‘dead’, followed by frenzied cheers.
I also recall loud cheers for a unionist spokesperson who declared that Irish had no ‘future tense’ – he later admitted to me in the bar that he made it up but that the more ignorant he could make himself appear of Irish the ‘more staunch’ he would appear. Nice chap when you got to know him, and he of course had a fine Gaelic name, top and tail!
All I am saying that outwith McNarry and a few others, political unionists have decided to put their brain in gear, a challenge to us but also perhaps a step onto a ‘slippery slope’?
The Belfast Media Group are not serious about Irish. They only bought Lá because they could use it to further SF and then when Lá Nua started critcising SF the four SF members on the Ard-Coiste of Foras na Gaeilge voted to end its funding and the Belfast Media Group although they have the money for a weekly have now decided not to publish at all.
The Media Group is the largest shareholder in the Gazette local papers in Dublin. There are several of them and they do not have an article in Irish every week. Nor annoyingly (and OK it’s a small point) do they type the fada on Irish words like Oireachtas Éireann etc.
Lá Nua ending its publication of a printed daily newspaper is the combination of many factors, some of which have been mentioned above.
It’s clear however that the most effective way forward for daily news services in minoritised languages is online. It’s absolutely unfathomable why Foras na Gaeilge did not take on board Lá Nua’s proposal to focus on online news.
This isn’t the end for daily news in Irish, ná baol air.
ggn, I welcome any arguments for or against the language, whether they are about funding or not. I think that they only serve to further the cause for the language.
This thread, however, is specifically about Lá Nua, and it’s closure due to lack of funding/loss of grant. Several posters have come here to gleefully applaud this, and again I ask – why? The funding/contract for a daily publication in irish will in no way decrease the funding for any other department/project/cultural endeavour, so why cheer its loss?
‘A debate about an Irish language item conducted entirely in English —-LOL’
Ceart go leor, coimhéad do ghnó féin !
Interesting insight Darren and indicative of the Orwellian designs the shinners over their so called electoral pool.
Drifts idea regarding an online edition is food for thought no? But then again would funding for that have to come from the same source? If so we are back to Mr Priors point.
Seimi,
It is a fair question of course, I meant no criticsm. I am just saying we need to recongise that the unionist narrative has begun to change.
I understand that ggn – no offence taken
I agree that the unionist narrative has begun to change. I also firmly believe that the unionist worries/concerns over the language and its development need to be taken into serious consideration. It is unfortunate though, that people like David Mcnarry can stand in the Assembly and argue that the language should be banned because it ‘makes him sick to his stomach to hear it’, and that, not only is he not censured, but that others actually back him up!
The proposal for an online edition of La Nua was proposed, by Lá Nua, ages ago. Foras decided to ignore it. Now that BMG are not going for the contract, FnaG seem to be in favour of an online element at least.