Ireland’s two speed performance at the Olympics…
What’s been astonishing at this Olympic games is just how well the British appear to have performed in comparison with past outings. Ireland’s performance in comparison begins to point not at lack of talent (of course it is a more limited pool) but structural weaknesses in the way sport is funded. Generally, Northern Irish competitors have with Team GB fared much better, hitting finals in several sports and in the case of Wendy Houvenaghel from Upperlands in Co Derry who took silver in cycling. Yesterday, the UK papers were at pains to point out just how potent the Lottery system has been at micro funding athletes at critical stages of their development, though it seems to me that that is only part of the story. Serious amounts of central funds have been committed in infrastructure as well as in importing top level coaches. And Ireland’s most notable failures so far, seem to me to amount to coaching failure rather than absence of competitive talent. Over at Brassneck I’ve argued that British Olympic success has relied on building a genuine sporting culture over the longer term. Not as Tom Humphries perceptively points out, by confusing “an ole-ole-ole tradition with a sporting culture.”
When is this waste of money over? (China would do well to remember how many poor people it has) no internet radio etc due to paranoid commies?
For those who are more enquiring than to pass off the RoI’s performance as a function merely of population or finance, some clues as to the off-track politics can be found in this article:
http://www.independent.ie/sport/other-sports/olympics-2008/irish-news/hession-lifts-irish-gloom-as-he-sparkles-in-beijing-1458495.html
As an adjunct, and at the risk of reintroducing politics, Kevin Myers make some interesting (if somewhat overblown) observations on the Team GB name here:
http://www.independent.ie/opinion/columnists/kevin-myers/olympic-team-name-is-a-telling-sign-of-lsquogbrsquo-political-dynamics-1458487.html
Suliven,
I reckon this probably merits a thread of it’s own to be frank. Did…did I just read an article by KEVIN MYERS advocating a UI???
Apologies Mick if this is raising matters outside the scope of this discusion (and as I’ve said, I’d be happy to discuss it elsewhere) but bloody hell…
Suilven:
The fall-back in Irish performances in track and field (particularly at middle-distance events) has been stark, but has been a long-term problem which was obscured while Sonia was still doing her thing. Having said that, how do you avoid references to Badwin’s Law when dealing with athletics these days?
Boxing is the area which has progressed most sharply in terms of good organisation over the last four years, which is why other sports should observe and learn. But administrative politics in other sporting organisations (OCI vs. some of the federations) would need to be sorted out.
ACR:
Kevin Myers has decided that GB is irretrievably on its way to rule by Osama bin Laden thanks to the teeming turbaned hordes, and that therefore it’s in the interests of Norn Iron to join hands with the south in a common vision of a Muslim-free, African-free utopia. Utterly bonkers, but then he always was.
The quareone who won Britian’s 16th gold medal was banned for missing 3 pop tests (Badwins No 4). You have to wonder if taking pop ( Badwins No 5) will become a bit like professionalism – it will be resisted but in the end they will have to throw in the towel.
re. the boy Myers: I have to say that although a massive fan – that wasnt his best bit of work, but perhaps he’s trying to get thrown out of the Indo for suggesting the heresy of a UI in order to go back to the Times.
Sammy,
Would it be bad(win) of me to dredge up Michelle Smith/de Brun and Cian O’Connor’s oul nag?
The Myers thread is here now. Please take all of that stuff there, if you please?
Paddy,
Any thoughts on improving funding streams? Big claims are being made for micro funding of individuals in the UK press , which I’m sceptical of only regarding the extent of their impact.
The way that Britain has moved from being so irrelevant that it wasn’t even a joke to world beating, largely through the efforts of Chris Boardman, relentless focus on finding and headhunting talent, and brilliant application of technology is one of the great untold stories of sport. And this is coming from someone who doesn’t really find God Save the Queen floats his boat… Look at the way Emma Pooley was rapidly streamed into the elite stream after taking up cycling in her early 20s because she had the physical and mental strength, directed towards road racing, and then had a special bike built for her to overcome her lack of weight on the downhill sections.
Cycling could be a logical place to start building a medal base, but the talent base has faltered dramatically since the days of Roche and Kelly, and the Brits have a real machine going. Boxing might be better? We’re actually good at it to start with, we continue to produce plenty of talent for the pros and none of the other big sporting powers takes it all that seriously really.
I’d also like contesting to become an Olympic sport before I get too much older so I get the chance to represent Ireland at the Olympics.
Suilven:
Fair’s fair – I don’t think any of us have objections to She Who Pisses Whiskey (allegedly, m’lud) or Cian’s schizophrenic steed getting an outing. Sudden improvements in individual or national performance are always likely to raise legitimate questions and deserve answers.
To be fair to UK Athletics, the quare wan referred to by Sammy above had to take them to court to be allowed to compete and they successfully stopped Dwain Chambers from getting to Beijing.
She was followed this afternoon by Bahrain’s first Olympic track gold. Bahrain (along with their neighbours Qatar) have achieved sporting success through the simple expedient of buying up east and north African athletes en masse, and giving them a quick respray and rename job. One doesn’t have to even invoke Badwin’s law to be cynical about Olympic medals at the moment.
Is there any data pertaining to how Ireland performs compared to countries of similar population size and GDP etc? Just like boxing you fight in your weight category, no point in looking at the USA or China and thinking what if?
Suilven,
I think that the Irish Nation’s healthy disregard for all rules should not be confused with the skullduggery so prevalent in other countries and particualrly with that of our largest neigbour. Shame on you.
Now where the feck are those Australians when they are needed?
To be fair to UK Athletics, the quare wan referred to by Sammy above
This being S. McNally rather than S. Morse…
I’d agree with Sammy about boxing. They seem to have been willing to import coaches from abroad and to provide serious backing to a squad of competitors. If the showjumpers could have their heads knocked together that might be another opportunity for results (the individual entrant that we were able to send is doing well at the moment).
Looking at the medal table, with two definite medals so far and possibilities of another one or two, we’re not notably out of line with most European countries of our size. Britain is the country having an exceptionally good performance…
Largely agreed Paddy, but we’re rich and have an enormous diaspora, so we really ought to be doing much better than most European countries of our size. Not too many Plastic Danes out there in Britain, North America or Australia, are there?
I’ve just reread by dyslexic post above, and I was specifically talking about the transformation of British cycling led by Chris Boardman, which really is one of the great untold stories of how to succeed at sport.
I take your point about Bahrain and Qatar, but to be fair how well would Britain or France do without athletes, especially on the track, who were either themselves born in Africa and the Caribbean or are the children of people who were?
Sammy (Morse):
Largely agreed Paddy, but we’re rich and have an enormous diaspora, so we really ought to be doing much better than most European countries of our size
Most of our “enormous diaspora” have gone past the point of being eligible for Irish passports. We do have a few Plastics – Alistair Cragg (born in South Africa), the female triathlete the other night – but we don’t seem to aggressively chase potential passport-holders in other sports to the extent that the FAI do in soccer.
I take your point about Bahrain and Qatar, but to be fair how well would Britain or France do without athletes, especially on the track, who were either themselves born in Africa and the Caribbean or are the children of people who were?
Not a valid comparison – the British and French athletes live in those countries, whereas the Bahrainis and Qataris are simply importing athletes with no previous connection to their states, renaming them in the process. It’s a real-life counterpart to the “Berzerkistan Olympic squad” storyline running in Doonesbury for the last few weeks.
Speaking of athletes bought by Qatar, given his surname could we make Saif Shaheen an Irishman?
“Rebecca Romero, the only British athelete to have won gold in two different sports.”
That made me wake up. Would be truly astounding if true – but she only got a silver in the rowing in Athens so very close but no cigar.
Nice letter in yesterdays’s Independent:
“Aren’t the number of Olympic medals awarded to swimming disproportionate? For athletics to even it up, I think medals should be awarded at 100, 200, 400 and 800 metres: for free-style running, crawling, hopping and running backwards.”
John Rathbone, Birmingham
It was Sammy: The quareone who won Britian’s 16th gold medal was banned for missing 3 pop tests
- while passing 6 pop tests over the same period.
Reader,
To paraphrase one of Irelands favourite gay sons most quoted lines – To miss one pop test may be regarded as a misfortune, to miss 2 looks like carelessness and to miss 3 looks like….
Badwin’s law No.5
Another Irish boxer to bully off soon – but Paddy Power has the quare-fellah from Venezuela as firm favorite.
No sign of those feckin Aussies.
I’ve not been following the Olympics as much as most here but I’m amazed to look at the medal count and see Britain ahead not only of Australia , but Germany , France , Italy ?
SWUD (Sporting World Upside Down)
Looking closer at the results it seems Cycling , Sailing , Rowing , Canoe , Swimming make up 95% of the total to date .
For me the performance of young Rebecca Adlington from Nottingham – winning 2 Gold medals for swimming is the best individual performance to date . She’s the first Briton to win a medal in swimming in 48 years ?
I saw her interview and lets face it getting up for several years at 5.00 am to train shows a determination to win that deserves the medals she won.
Seems like Britain picked the right strategy for an island country with lots of rainfall
all those water sport medals being proof.
With the next Olympics in London this British performance in Beijing should be a great encouragement to those who will reach their ‘prime’ in 2012.
And Darren Sutherland has won another Bronze Medal for Ireland in the boxing. So we have 3 bronze medals so far. Good going by our ‘Wee Country’.
She’s the first Briton to win a medal in swimming in 48 years ?
Na, I think Adrian Moorehouse won a gold medal for GB back in the 80′s.
Great Britain won a couple of bronze medals in swimming in Athens four years ago for a start.
Not as Tom Humphries perceptively points out, by confusing “an ole-ole-ole tradition with a sporting culture.”
“Perceptive”? Disgraceful comment and weakens your entire piece. Perhaps Munster should be informed they only have an “ole ole” culture. Perhaps too the footballers of Kerry or Tyrone, or the hurlers of Kilkenny. It’s a fuckwit comment anyway, because the “ole ole” culture helped boost soccer here. If you cannot generate enthusiasm, you sure as hell can’t generate success.
There are a few points here:
1. Ireland is and always will be limited by a small pool of talent, and the opportunity cost of the talent going to rugby or soccer or the GAA is much worse in a small country. Even with huge amounts of money, could Ireland produce the number of cyclists the UK did, where success starts breeding success? I sincerely doubt it.
2. In Britain the Olympics medal table was held up as a symbol of national decline, particularly with the 1 gold in the 1996 games. There is no such attitude in Ireland and we should not be starting one.
3. Part of how GB has gotten success is by ruthlessly targeting areas which other major countries consider lower priority. Fair play to them, they’ve done brilliantly at it. I’m not sure it’s a good idea for Ireland: we could try something similar but is it better to build a National Indoor Cycling centre or to invest in track and field games at schools even if we have to wait 40 years between medals?
Saying that, Ireland does have a high performance programme and save for boxing hasn’t really delivered. It should be looked at without necessarily spending much more money.
4. Comparing performance of NI athletes in the GB and Ireland team is ridiculous. First up, they are 15 times the size. In team sports such as rowing, you have far better odds of getting better partners. People who miss the GB team might try for Ireland’s. Most Olympic sports offer scant rewards and most sports are more individualistic. Most people will take their chances with the best team they can get, even if they might choose otherwise if things were equal.
5. Just to reinforce the talent point: Ireland does have some Olympic pedigree in amateur boxing. It’s been 16 years between medals.
Still can’t get over that comment Mick. God awful.