Ireland’s two speed performance at the Olympics…
What’s been astonishing at this Olympic games is just how well the British appear to have performed in comparison with past outings. Ireland’s performance in comparison begins to point not at lack of talent (of course it is a more limited pool) but structural weaknesses in the way sport is funded. Generally, Northern Irish competitors have with Team GB fared much better, hitting finals in several sports and in the case of Wendy Houvenaghel from Upperlands in Co Derry who took silver in cycling. Yesterday, the UK papers were at pains to point out just how potent the Lottery system has been at micro funding athletes at critical stages of their development, though it seems to me that that is only part of the story. Serious amounts of central funds have been committed in infrastructure as well as in importing top level coaches. And Ireland’s most notable failures so far, seem to me to amount to coaching failure rather than absence of competitive talent. Over at Brassneck I’ve argued that British Olympic success has relied on building a genuine sporting culture over the longer term. Not as Tom Humphries perceptively points out, by confusing “an ole-ole-ole tradition with a sporting culture.”
“What’s been astonishing at this Olympic games is just how well the British appear to have performed in comparison with past outings ”
I think there is some truth on this but I am not clear yet to what extent the timing of events is influencing our perception of overall performance. I wish them luck but we need to see the end state.
On BBC TV last night there were however some interesting comments about the way in which cycling and swimming have used their funding with great success while athletics hasn’t. The inter-sport rivalry for funding was apparent and there were strong hints of fragmentation and a lack of direction and focus within the Athletics hierarchy – but the proof of the pudding will be seen over the next few days.
Thanks Mick for a refreshingly obvious analysis of Ireland’s performance – the normal excuse for our poor Olympic showing is the GAA. It stands to reason that better funding should yield better results, especially for highly technical team events like cycling, rowing and the other sitting down sports. But the sums involved are staggering. Do we really need medals that badly? Personaly, I couldn’t give a shit.
EP:
“…the other sitting down sports”
Have you seen the state of those guys even ten minutes after the race is over? Though I suspect your last question is critical as to whether headway is likely to be made in future. Sustainability of effort has to be the critical factor in both places. That’s as much about building a genuine sporting culture as much as about smart funding.
“The department put funding over the four-year Olympic cycle leading up to Beijing at £265m ($495m), compared with £84m for Athens and £63m for Sydney.”
Mick, even if we were equal to the UK in results, that still wouldn’t add up to one gold medal on a per capita basis (we have to win 1 gold for every 16 UK golds), so, due to our tiny size as a nation, Olympic sport is never going to be an arena where we will steal the show.
I think it would be a waste of Irish taxpayers (or Lotto players’) money to invest in something that will be of no practical benefit to the Ireland. It is better to invest in sports as a social benefit rather than as the form of nationalism that the Olympics represent.
Mick
The other reason NI competitors are faring better with GB is that they are better.
If you’re good enough for the GB team you’ve got a better chance of winning a medal whereas if you’re not so good you can at least get on the Irish team and go to the Olympics. You only have to look at performances of the two swimmers who were selected for Ireland.
On the British cycling success, Steve Ovett made a great point this morning when comparing the cycling preparation to the athletics.
Only cyclists who are part of the Manchester set-up, with the velodrome and the coaching structure there, receive lottery funding – all building from the Commonwealth games in 2002.
In short there’s a team set-up, with built-in camaraderie and competition, already in place.
Add in the focus that provides for funding and other resources, and the not inconsiderable commitment of the individual athletes involved, and you start to see some of the reasons behind that success.
…and the British achievement is one in the eye for the Ozzies as the BBC’s Nick Bryant reported:
Extracts:
Britain Tops Australia in gold medals.Not my headline, but the words of the Sydney Morning Herald. It’s an Olympic story that is getting quite a bit of play here – it got second billing on the SMH website, nudged off the top of the online podium by the resignation of the leader of a nuclear-armed country in one of the most troubled corners of the world.
So, yep, it must have been a close call.
And there was me thinking we’d have to wait for the Ashes next year for a good, old-fashioned Anglo-Australian stoush.
The last time Britain out-medalled Australia, Bob Hawke and Margaret Thatcher occupied The Lodge and Number Ten, and Rebecca Adlington and Stephanie Rice had not even entered the world let alone leapt into an Olympics-sized swimming pool.
Seoul 1988 – the Brits got 5, while the Aussies got 3. Thereafter, the Aussies have always ended up on top.
• 17/9 in Athens
• 16/11 in Sydney
• 9/1 in Atlanta
• 7/5 in Barcelona
That may happen at Beijing, too – although the failure of Australian men’s swimming team to win a single gold (it’s the first time that’s happened since the Aussie annus horribilis of 1976 in Montreal) and the British domination in cycling makes it tough.
Even John Coates, the head of Australian Olympic Committee, has conceded publicly that the Poms might edge out the Aussies. “Not bad for a country that has no swimming pools and very little soap,” as he himself would doubtless put it.
To tread the dark path of sporting cliché – or to retread it – Australia has been a victim of its own success. The Australian Institute of Sport, established in the wake of the disastrous Montreal Games, set the gold standard – and has since been copied all over the world.
The British cycling coach Shane Sutton won gold at the 1978 Commonwealth Games for – wait for it, Australia. Top quality coaches can reportedly earn five times as much in Britain than in Australia.
An Australian coached the Brazilian winner of the 50 metres freestyle, who edged out the pre-games favourite, Eamon Sullivan. The legendary Aussie swim coach, Ken Wood, openly sold his training techniques to the Chinese, which might have cost his protégé, Jessica Schipper, a gold (she was beaten by a Chinese swimmer).
Who knows whether the Brits will ultimately beat the Aussies. But goodness me, the next few days are going to be close and fun”.
Maybe there should be more investment in performance-enhancing drugs as that seems the only way Ireland can get to the top of the Olympic rostrum these days. Anyone remember Michelle Smith (or was it De Brun?)
Have you noticed the decline of former “soviet” eastern European states in athletics and swimming.
Drug testing at the highest level must be encouraged.
GB have a good foundation for London2012 and the future will be brighter if sport can only be reintroduced into schools.
And let’s not leave out the small local angle.. Three cheers for my old friend Ed Curran of the Belfast Telegraph, having the time of his life in Beijing and carrying the torch for Northern Ireland.
Column and report extracts:
“It was quite frankly the greatest sporting experience of my life. To be in the Olympic stadium on Saturday night around 10.30pm Beijing time and to witness the fastest man on Earth…..
At every level of these games, the passion and pride of success comes through. In Northern Ireland’s case, it rested yesterday on the shoulders of Wendy Houvenaghel. Actually being here at an Olympics makes one appreciate the effort and commitment that competitors like Wendy have made to reach this pinnacle in sport.”
Thursday, 14 August 2008
Northern Ireland’s Alan Campbell is through to the final of the Men’s Single Sculls in Beijing.
“It was a moment to savour when Northern Ireland’s Alan Campbell guaranteed his place in an Olympic final yesterday afternoon about 20 miles north of Beijing…
For a moment we thought Campbell had given his all. Then, as he passed where I sat, with 100 metres to go, his stroke quickened, the cheering reached a crescendo, and he finished the fastest of all.…
Campbell’s qualification for the final later this week was the triumph of his physical and mental strength over yesterday’s adverse elements. Spectators in the grandstands were soaked in sweat. For Campbell, himself, as he lost pounds through perspiration, it was certainly a long way from a cold winter’s morning on the River Bann, where he learnt his skills”.
(Campbell missed a medal but came in a creditable fifth in the final last Saturday).
And inevitably memories of 1972, the darkest year.. …
“Royal Avenue was alive with applause as she stood proudly on the back of a lorry, acknowledging the acclaim of the city and showing to us all her prize. Mary Peters had returned home with the only athletics gold medal won by the British team in the Munich Olympics.
Mary’s achievement lightened the darkness of those days. She was an instant celebrity, winning that year’s BBC Sports Personality of the Year. She has since become a shining role model, a soft-spoken ambassador for Northern Ireland wherever she has travelled. But I’m sure neither she, nor her coach, the late Buster McShane, realised that day when I met them in his beleaguered city-centre gym, how much winning would change her life and put Ulster on the map for more than terror on its streets.”
Three cheers for my old friend Ed Curran of the Belfast Telegraph, having the time of his life in Beijing and carrying the torch for Northern Ireland.
Brian
Did Ed get to any of Paddy Barnes’ bouts? Or was his schedule filled up by following the progress of a woman who, and correct me if I’m wrong, represented England in the commonwealth games?
Totally agree that Ireland has a poor infrastructure.
As for Team GB – as someone said they do well in the sports that Africans cannot afford. All the sports they do well in are for toffs! Cycling costs a fortune; rowing for Eton boys; horses that dance!! Sailing, in the name of God! The GB person who deserves credit is the swimmer who won but again – not too many swimming pools in central Africa – remember Eric the eel?
In saying all that – why cant Ireland be good at these toff sports – was the celtic tiger good for nothing? Togo has won a medal for Gods sake.
Come on our boxers – go and beat the living daylights out of someone and make us feel proud!
WB:
Buried in amongst all those sour grapes you have a legit point. British AND Irish Athletics is grinding to a halt as an internationally competitive base. Eammon Coughlin got to world class because of a scholarship to the states. Now there is stiffer competition for those places, and few facilities at home.
A Tory friend said to me yesterday that a lot of GB’s success was built on the back of Public School culture (certainly in the case of rowing). But even that has to be modified. That was the case back in 72 when as a 14 year old I first took a serious interest in the games, and they were noticeably crap.
I’d say Pete has the right of this that centralisation of facilities and smart funding have improved what’s there beyond recognition. As for Yachts, as former Holywood kid, I am saying nothing, except Ireland did not entirely embarrass itself in the sport. It would be one I’d pick to grow and invest in.
Dec,
“Meaoooowwww…” Did no one feed you your milk this morning? ;o)
Ireland’s best performance was in the 1908 Olympics, but then they were properly managed back then. Just imagine what could have been? Shame really!
Mick, we need to focus our attention on competing in the Special Olympics instead. To this end, I propose that we lobby the relevant council to include categories of ‘Hating on politicians’ and ‘Church bashing’ for the Republic and categories of ‘Mopery’ ‘Whataboutry’ ‘It’s all your fault & No, it’s all your fault’ and ‘Marching’ for NI. We’d clean up if only we played to our particular skills.
As an aside, Paddy Barnes has just claimed Ireland’s first medal, the shade of which TBC (with a bit of luck it’ll be gold. SFAIK, he’s beaten all the remaing fighters he could face) Congratulations and here’s hoping for the other two boxers in the QFs
Dowtcha, Paddy biy
UmH
Hmmm, Olympic medals versus political, social and economic freedom. Tough choice that alright…
Wales joint 16th in medal table Ain’t the Western Mail totally impartial??? What’s “Houvenaghel” anyway? Ulster – Dutch?
“[i]Hmmm, Olympic medals versus political, social and economic freedom. Tough choice that alright…”[/i]
LoL. The Irish are only starting to gain political freedom and that has been a result of greater co-operation with mainland Britain. The same with social freedom as they’re becoming more tollerant of other cultures and religions. Economic freedom?? LOL
Did no one feed you your milk this morning?
Ball not man please, Mick. Yellow card.
UmH
I beg your pardon? We’ve had pretty much all of the above since 1922 and as any observer of Ireland’s commonwealth and UN negotiating positions will tell you we excercised quite a degree of political freedom. Frank Aitken’s tenure in NY especially.
So then, Paddy Barnes. A fine Ulsterman under the tricolour, what, what?
Apparently it’s his homeland too
I think we have to put things into perspective here. Our ‘wee country’ Ireland has a population of 4 and a half million, so we are limited from the start. Funding and facilities for athletes is not as abundant as GB. The superb performance of Team GB team at the mo comes from the increased funding from the lottery over the past few years.
Remember too, that GB is still a big gun in world politics, it might not have it’s empire, but it is still a big gun. With this ‘responsibility’ comes the desire to be seen as the best in the world at everything. It’s the old story of nations trying to out do each other, they can’t wage wars with each other anymore so the new battle field is the sports arena. Hence the medal tallies of the USA V USSR during the Cold War.
When one says Team GB, is it really Team England?
Well done to Paddy Barnes from Belfast who has secured a Bronze for Ireland. And I’m sure UMH and the like were cheering on a fellow Ulsterman!
Erin abú
Indeed dec. Indeed.
Gregóir,
just so. Still, it would be to assume levels of loftiness that are beyond most people with a pulse to say that seeing “your” athlete on the top rung with attendant flags/anthems isn’t quite the thrill.
Just one gold would probably do us with maybe a few silvers and a bronzes thrown in for seasoning. As has been pointed out; even that would be punching above our population weight in a rather fine style. Nonetheless, the boxers have acquited themselves well irrespective of what happens next.
Good man Paddy! The difference between Gold and Bronze is 40th versus 68th place according to the current official tables.
Britain has just bagged another couple of golds, making the total 15. Consolidates third place ten behind the US.
“[i]beg your pardon? We’ve had pretty much all of the above since 1922 and as any observer of Ireland’s commonwealth and UN negotiating positions will tell you we excercised quite a degree of political freedom.”[/i]
Pity you didn’t practice what you preach and state Ulster has the same right as the Republic. Hypocrites
UmH
What right is that pray? I’m afraid you didn’t signpost your diversion very well…
“I think it would be a waste of Irish taxpayers (or Lotto players’) money to invest in something that will be of no practical benefit to the Ireland. It is better to invest in sports as a social benefit rather than as the form of nationalism that the Olympics represent.”
Micro funding means you can invest in the person who shows talent rather than huge swathes of sport development funding. For a small nation like the Republic, it seems obvious that the need is to focus on the “talent scouts” and then the individual talent. Would it really be that dear in the scheme of things…?
Mick
You’re right Mick. I was clearly over-sensitive in being irked with Curran’s patrician and exclusive cheer-leading of local British boys and gals. That he didn’t find time to make one mention of Belfast’s Paddy Barnes (who was hotly tipped for the medal he guaranteed today) was clearly a genuine oversight and not the result of any bias on Curran’s part. I’m sure if Paddy Barnes was boxing for Team GB, Curran would just have studiously ignored him.
Dec,
perhaps Curran isn’t a fan of boxing?
The Olympics for the likes of GB is really about keeping up with the Jones’. Its vanity which has countries (and amalgamations of countries) worrying about their position on the medals table. Team GB is far better funded than the Irish team. I heard Ireland sent only around 50 competitors, which considering the funding needed for the larger teams, to spend more money to send more longshots at medals when said money could be invested elsewhere where it is needed, would be foolish. But perhaps if the money was invested at grassroots level, those odds would come down a bit. Anway its a pity the TKD at the olympics is the WTF variety as we would have a good few prospects if it was ITF.
Britain has done brilliantly – given the range of sport they take part in and the fact that football and rugby and cricket must use up so much talent.
But have to admit to wanting the Aussies to catch them up – this anti-Australian thing has got to be kept under control and if they do catch them up jingoistic Englezes can console themselves that the frogs are miles behind.
Cant help but be suspicious of the cyclists – as a rule if something suddenly changes in a performance sport there may be some pop involved – but leaving aside such negative thoughts I am delighted with the Welsh/Kaydiff cycling performance.
As for the Padz – it is fantastic to see someone from Non Iron( irrespective of which side of rhe fence they are from ) representing and being sucessful for Ireland. But I think Paddy is up against the hot favourite from China in the semis.
“Remember too, that GB is still a big gun in world politics, it might not have it’s empire, but it is still a big gun. With this ‘responsibility’ comes the desire to be seen as the best in the world at everything. It’s the old story of nations trying to out do each other, they can’t wage wars with each other anymore so the new battle field is the sports arena. Hence the medal tallies of the USA V USSR during the Cold War.”
Really? When did that happen? All three countries you cited are currently engaged in wars.
ACR
perhaps Curran isn’t a fan of boxing?
Yes, I considered that but I just kept coming back to the relevance, Ed’s favourite sports aside) of a hotly-tipped Belfast Olympic athlete (the only one?) to a story about Northern Irish Olympic athletes in the Belfast Telegraph.
West Belfast “Togo has won a medal for Gods sake.”
Yes, that was in the kayak slalom. But that guy lives and trains in France, a strong canoe-kayak slalom country. Eoin Rheinisch (RoI) came fourth in that event, very close, could be someone to watch in 2012. Pity about Campbell Walsh (UK/Scotland) and Fiona Pennie (UK/Scotland) who were both good medal hopes. It only takes one mistake in this sport and you’re screwed.
My take is that countries like Ireland and the UK should develop and invest in sport to improve everyone’s health and improve our quality of life, rather than concentrating on Olympic medals. Much as I like to see kayak and canoe slalom medals from these islands, as a kayaker myself (well past competition age) it is the general development of the sport that should be promoted. More whitewater facilities to suit all paddlers, not just Olympic class ones (there can be conflicts over facilities when they are in short supply), better access to rivers (terrible in England). Medals may of course follow.
Eoin Rheinsich misses out on bronze
Proposed changes to HPP whitewater course
River access campaign
I wonder if there is a law, which I have just violated, perhaps called Badwins Law which is is the equivalent of Goodwins re. mentioning the Nazis that sooner or later in any discussion of the Olympics someone will mention the quarestuff that the contestants might be using?
Can I suggest to those of you who want to use this thread for personal grievances, that you simply take it somewhere else and leave the discussion to those who actually care about the issues raised. Adds: No harm dec. You’ve called Ed on that, it’s egg on the face if Paddy goes two further and picks up a gold. But can we do sport rather than media bias for once?
Part of my concern is raised by the lack of support that Irish athletes receive. In addition to the coaching failures I suggest above, there is also turning up to the Games with the wrong swimming goggles, or turning up 5/6 hours late for the rowing.
Now those may be just the kind of things that only get picked up by journalists when there are actually relatively few competitors to follow and a lot of broadcast time to fill. But I doubt many of the competitors in larger are left quite so high and dry by their own organisations.
Mick
Turning up late is not new to this Olympiad.
Do you recall about 20 years ago the two American sprinters both hot favourites missed their heats and were disqualified because they got their dates wrong and were days late.
Yes, I considered that but I just kept coming back to the relevance, Ed’s favourite sports aside) of a hotly-tipped Belfast Olympic athlete (the only one?) to a story about Northern Irish Olympic athletes in the Belfast Telegraph.
It’s not Curran’s fault that some Northern Irish athletes elect to compete for a foreign country.
Mick many Irish athletes receive a great deal of money and support. Alan Campbell or Wendy Houvenaghel for example.
Mick,
Ireland is very introverted on this.
They play football, rugby and then this strange cross-mix game, and seem happy as pigs in muck to get on with it.
I think if the country were united we’d see vast improvements in self-esteem and success in Rugby and Football.
Its sad, but when your history is one of being shat on by your neighbour, why bother trying to be posh…. where’s my morning saucer of milk –meooww
Individually there’s nothing to stop irish athletes from pursuing their dream, but they probably have to train away from Ireland.
Best thing is for the two football teams to come together, perhaps something for simpson, DCAL, to consider after the maze staduim decision.
Remember George Best’s wish
Chekov,
“Northern Irish athletes elect to compete for a foreign country”
I presume you realise that line works both ways.
Anybody got a good informative link to Paddy Barnes boxing club?
As far as the goggles are concerned, it could happen to the most successful competitor at the games, but I suppose any opportunity to take a swipe at the Mexicans will do.
The IABA seem to have done a good job with the funding available to them, with one medallist so far and another two quarter-finalists still to come this week. Other sports should observe and hopefully learn.
The other Olympic sport where we’ve traditionally been competitive internationally is show-jumping, but four years of internecine feuding has done a lot of damage there.
And BTW, Mick, does your description of Wendy (McClean) Houvenhagel as coming from “Co Derry” mean that Pete Baker will have to try to squeeze in a couple of hundred “Londonderrys” into his next post to compensate?
Dave
‘We’d clean up if only we played to our particular skills.’
Drinking?
“I presume you realise that line works both ways.”
In what respect? As far as I’m aware the only Northern Irish athletes who are not competing under the correct flag are those who have chosen to represent the Republic of Ireland. Certainly those competing in the Great Britain and Northern Ireland team are self-evidently competing in a team which represents their own country.
Paddy, not sure what it’s like down Mexico way, but we don’t do ‘group think’ on Slugger!
Ms Wiz
Drinkin’
Fightin’ (bare knuckle, natch)
Hoorin’
Walkin’ (one for those of our Northern Brethren who eschew the above)
To paraphrase Kent Brockman: Are these the activities we associate with the Irish?
Again Chekov, point made. Now can we stick with sport rather than politics?
Dewi -
Her husband is Dutch.
Mick -
Have to say I’m disappointed that this thread is the first mention of Wendy Houvenaghel’s achievement. It’s not every day that a Northern Irish sportsperson reaches an Olympic final or wins an Olympic silver medal.
For those interested, Kenny Egan just won his QF so that’s another bronze at least. A good day for Irish boxing North and South
Chekov,
Non Iron athletes competing for Great Britian are a bit like athletes from Hong Kong competing for Great Britian before they gave it back to China. Only teasing you really. … but you did ask.
Presuming the cyclists are not on the pop (Badwins no 2) then it looks like a good sport for the Padz to concentrate on as we have some a good record with it – they could start by poaching the British coach ( in the true Olympian spirit) and developing facilities for 2012 although thinking about it the Irish chappies in cycling were allegedly not averse to the pop themselves(Badwins no 3).
Have the Aussies caught up yet? Any mention of the Ashes yet.