GAC helps attacked hall
In the latest in a series of attacks on Newtownbutler Orange Hall, sectarian grafitti and a GAA Flag and bunting were placed on the building. Members of the local GAC helped in their removal (Registration reqd).
Advertise
-
Books
-
A poem for the day – Launching the Whaler Juan Peron
A Belfast epic, and one of my oldest poems, the opener of my first collection, Grub. The gist of the story was found in Moss & Hume’s Shipbuilders to the World: 125 Years of Harland and Wolff, Belfast, 1861-1986, which tells how Eva Peron was due to launch a huge whaling vessel in Belfast, built [...] read our review » -
“It was a trivial problem that… occurs every year”
Just your average family gathering at Christmas, with a bit of an argument about the seating cleaning arrangements… Scuffles have broken out between rival groups of Greek Orthodox and Armenian clerics over a turf war in Bethlehem’s Church of the Nativity. Bemused tourists looked on as about 100 priests fought with brooms while cleaning the [...] read our review » -
Review: To Kill a Mockingbird
Somehow I escaped reading this essential school text, with its story of racism in 1930s American South. Living in Northern Ireland, I draw parallels with sectarianism, with its similar bigotry and prejudice. To Kill a Mockingbird was part of a Unite Against Hate campaign event at Parliament Buildings in Northern Ireland, which I’ve written [...] read our review »
-
Clearly the Parades commission should be looking at keeping it out of the city or re-routing it to the East of the city where it will largely get a receptive and warm welcome or starting and finishing it in the early morning.
Posted by It was Sammy McNally what done it on Aug 02, 2008 @ 02:43 PM………………………
It would get a warm reception in Sandy Row, the Greater Shankill and Ballysillan and they’re in the South, West and North of the city respectively, so there goes your argument that only the East of the city is “Orange-friendly”….
Outsider
“A thread about an attack on an Orange hall has effectively led to some posters indicating the Orange Order should be re-routed in the Belfast parade, the intolerance and bigotry from some is a disgrace”
My remarks about the unacceptability of loyalist parades was in response to “Peace and Justice” etc sounding off about the GAA. If the GAA is going to be verbally attacked it is important to remind those who do so that they support an organisation whose record on cross community relations is appaling and far worse that the GAA’s. Nationalists( who are probably a majority in Belfast) have to endure sectarian marches through their city and the commercial impact of these marches in Belfast should be looked at by the parades commission given their controversial nature, the fact that they often result in an increase in offensive sectarian behaviour by the Unionist community and if truth were told are very bad publicity for a city trying to shake of a negative image.
To return to the main debate… As mentioned above I dont see any reason why the Orange Order halls should not have a publically agreed arrangement with the nearest GAA club local that in the event of an attack each side would help to clean up. It would be useful to hear those accusing me of bigotry to welcome this exercise in practical cross community cooperation.
To return to the main debate… As mentioned above I dont see any reason why the Orange Order halls should not have a publically agreed arrangement with the nearest GAA club local that in the event of an attack each side would help to clean up. It would be useful to hear those accusing me of bigotry to welcome this exercise in practical cross community cooperation.
Posted by It was Sammy McNally what done it on Aug 03, 2008 @ 05:21 PM
Sounds like a great idea. Though I am concerned that some of the mindless bigots would probably then attack their ‘own’ premises to see the other side clean it up. Would it suprise you?
I didn’t realise this thread was simply started to pat the GAA on the back, and to attack the Orange Order further. The means of attacking the order on Slugger may be different from that used in the attack in Newtownbutler but the mindsets are the same.
phfl,
“Sounds like a great idea. Though I am concerned that some of the mindless bigots would probably then attack their ‘own’ premises to see the other side clean it up. Would it suprise you?
No – but I have a feeling that if it was a ‘homer’ then it would be picked up.
Anyone know a suitable organisation who deal in cross community relations that I should suggest this to?
Anyone know a suitable organisation who deal in cross community relations that I should suggest this to?
Sinn Fein/IRA or the GAA both pretty tolerant bodies .
Outsider,
I suggest you have a word with ‘PeaceandJustice’ who used this thread to make negative remarks about the GAA.
But lets move on…
It would be reassuring to hear someone from the Unionist side of the fence being positive about a possible agreement between local GAA clubs and Orange Halls.
But lets move on…
It would be reassuring to hear someone from the Unionist side of the fence being positive about a possible agreement between local GAA clubs and Orange Halls.
It was Sammy McNally what done it
Can we in the Protestant/Unionist/Loyalist community not be left alone? Without having to integrate and get involved in cross community events all the time.
Outsider,
“Can we in the Protestant/Unionist/Loyalist community not be left alone? Without having to integrate and get involved in cross community events all the time”
Yes most of the time that is probably a good idea – but sometimes if bigots from the Nationalist side of the fence are attacking the buildings belonging to your cultural organisation it is probably a good idea to join with sensbible Nationalists in trying to undermine these idiots.
Yes most of the time that is probably a good idea – but sometimes if bigots from the Nationalist side of the fence are attacking the buildings belonging to your cultural organisation it is probably a good idea to join with sensbible Nationalists in trying to undermine these idiots.
It was Sammy McNally what done it
It seems like spinning a situation to get a positive image that may otherwise have cast Nationalists in a poor light.
Outsider
“cast Nationalists in a poor light”
Could not agree with you more.
Personally speaking I could not give a shit about spin – I think it is important to make clear to Unionists that attacks of this nature do not have the support of sensible Nationalists. Hopefully, that message will be of some comfort to people who are on the receiving end.
Outsider
“cast Nationalists in a poor light”
Could not agree with you more.
Personally speaking I could not give a shit about spin – I think it is important to make clear to Unionists that attacks of this nature do not have the support of sensible Nationalists. Hopefully, that message will be of some comfort to people who are on the receiving end.
Posted by It was Sammy McNally what done it on Aug 03, 2008 @ 07:22 PM…………………………………………
Yawn…you can say that these mindless sectarian inbreds are not representative of the RC/nationalist community until you’re blue in the face. The fact of the matter, however, is that PUL community believe that the wider nationalist community view these attacks on Orange Halls with a certain degree of ambivalence at the very least.
“It would be reassuring to hear someone from the Unionist side of the fence being positive about a possible agreement between local GAA clubs and Orange Halls.”
Sounds like a good idea. Reaseured now?
Slug
yes.
Concerned Loyalist
“view these attacks on Orange Halls with a certain degree of ambivalence at the very least”
assuming there was reciprocal arrangements between GAA clubs and Orange Order halls – surely that would convince people on both sides that these attacks did not have majority support from the other side of the community?
Sammy
What you are suggesting is a cosmetic exercise to shield the GAA. I feel this quasi political organisation needs to wake up and realise it has no support within the Protestant community.
Outsider
“I feel this quasi political organisation needs to wake up and realise it has no support within the Protestant community”
The GAA know that – and that will probably not change for some time – but there is no reason why both members of the OO and the GAA do not demonstrate to each other that they do not support attacks on each others premises.
The GAA know that – and that will probably not change for some time – but there is no reason why both members of the OO and the GAA do not demonstrate to each other that they do not support attacks on each others premises.
Sammy
But do they? Its seems that in public particularly in workplaces Protestant have to endure endless conversations about Gaelic, I’m sure if we mentioned the twelfth there would be a deadly silence.
thats the problem with Sports fans – they can be an obsessive lot.
Sammy
Don’t misinterpret the Protestant community as we love sports, however we don’t recognise the GAA as a sporting organisation and find any conversations about it extremely offensive.
Outsider,
You seem to be offended by the hand of friendship by the GAA, would you rather they had not helped clean the hall just so they would look bad? Do people get offended by talk of a GAA game? What is offensive about people kicking a ball about? Or hitting a ball about with a piece of wood? I know plenty of protestants that have enquired to me about the GAA as they are interested in sports. I don’t agree with the view that the protestant community find any talk of the GAA very offensive.
‘and find any conversations about it extremely offensive’
Ahh, so you go out of your way to be offended. Those who would seek to lump the GAA in with the OO are facetious. One does not bar someone from partaking based upon their religion. So anyone who mentions either in the same breath is really clutching at atraws. The GAA is a sporting and cultural organistaion which predates the artifical partition of this country. The GAA seeks to promote the native games and culture of IRELAND, the fact that the existence of such an organistion calls into the question the legitimacy of the enforced partition by a minority of this land immaturely beholden to a foreign land which couldn’t care less about them, is the reason why people seek to undermine it. They attempt to condemn it for daring to use the name of people connected to groupings which sought to overthrow the little sectarian Rhodesia they have made for themselves, and pretend this is their only beef with the organisation. No doubt we can expect the same people to advocate the removal of the name Cromwell or Chichester etc from streets as they don’t have the best reputation in Ireland in regard of the native Irish. I await an outpouring of indignation and amphibology !
‘and find any conversations about it extremely offensive’
Ahh, so you go out of your way to be offended
Posted by RepublicanStones on Aug 04, 2008 @ 03:09 AM…………………………………..
So you support the Northern Ireland football team? Or do you go out of your way to support the foreign R.O.I. side because you’re an anti-Protestant bigot? You can’t have it both ways – either us Prods and you Taigs both go out of our way to get fucked off with the GAA and Northern Ireland football team or both our communities should stick to supporting our own and leaving the other community to do what the hell they want…multiculturalism is great in theory, but it has proven divisive and problematic in mainland Great Britain…maybe we were never meant to integrate! Personally i hope tat doesn’t prove the case as I’m friends with Roman Catholics and regularly speak to ethnic minorities, but with two communities so entrenched, can you blame me for thinking the form of apartheid we have is better than the Upper and Lower Oldpark, for example, coming together? We’re just not ready for full integration…
I’m sorry for the pessimism, but the peace walls are there for a reason.
Que sera sera…
Peace and justice, foreign ROI flags you say.
The tricolor is the preferred flag of the large majority of the people of Ireland. I suggest that you learn to respect that.
Let me remind you that it is you who considers yourself to be the blow-in around here, you were born and you live in Ireland? but you refuse to accept that you are Irish. What logic!
Unionists tell us that the union is good for Ireland even though the majority of the population suffered miserably under this regime. So long as it wasn’t their population it was ok. A regime where only unionists had rights.Why do you think in your opinion, why any Irish person would vote for the union or its flag.You must really hate Irish people and all things Irish. Living in Ireland must be difficult for unionists since when living in Ireland you tend to meet lots of Irish people. If you don’t like Irish people maybe its not a good idea to live in Ireland, personal happiness and all that considered!
Its easy to see which part of Ireland became a success. The one which respected all of its people equally or the one with a unionist government for a unionist people. In your opinion lets hear it.
As for the orange order, a politico-religious sect worshiping a man on a horse, an ancient war that means very little in modern times but serves only as a sectarian divider.They think that they can march where they like, instead of waving their right to march and waiting to be invited as in any normal country.
And finally, the British, a union with Britain equals protection of the protestant faith you insist. What rubbish! The Irish Republic did not disestablish the Church of Ireland of which i am a member. There are growing numbers of protestants in the rep today. But then again you probably have never been to the republic have you?
“either us Prods and you Taigs both go out of our way to get fucked off with the GAA and Northern Ireland football team or both our communities should stick to supporting our own and leaving the other community to do what the hell they want”
CL,
There is one major difference to be borne in mind.
Northern Ireland teams, at all levels, always have, do and always will contain players and supporters from within the nationalist community.
Evidence the delight and togetherness of the successful Milk Cup winning side on Friday evening – politics irrelevant, religious beliefs unimportant. Players from different backgrounds, united in a sporting cause.
I was heartened to hear of the members of the GAA Club in Fermanagh giving assistance to their (Orange) neighbours in their hour of need.
Perhaps they have a true understanding of the meaning of the National flag of the Irish Republic?
“Hopefully a few blinkered unionists will realise that the GAA is made up of decent people simply interested in promoting their sports within the community. With this comes a great community spirit in many GAA villages and from this story, I would say some people who are willing to put themselves out to build bridges”
A perfectly true and reasonable post. I have many friends in the GAA, whose motivations are as described. There are equally just as many Protestant Orangemen with identical motives for involvement in their organisation. Hopefully some nationalists on this thread will acknowledge that too,but I fear the usual ranters will drown them out.
Both groups also have a minority who cross the line of being “pro- their own community” to being “anti-themmuns”.To deny this is futile. I’ve no doubt the vast majority of IRA members were in the GAA- as the only local sporting and cultural outlet for young men, or even just the nearest bar in a rural area, they would naturally have gravitated to their club. It doesn’t mean the majority of GAA followers have any truck for the IRA. Perhaps because the majority of Orange halls are “dry” and the meetings dull, my impression is that this would not be such an attractive environment for the type of loyalist who would have paramilitery inclinations- bands and that culture may well be different.
But if there are 50,000 members of the GAA in NI ( complete guess), and perhaps 1,000 IRA members, it’s hard to say it’s a republican front. And if there are 50,000 Orangemen ( plus family members- very few women and cildren in the Orange structure don’t forget) there may well be a similar percentage of paramilitaries – again a complete guess, since it’s impossible to know. The GAA does have a wider class, age and gender base within its own community, and until recently a broader range of functions- sporting, social, and cultural all probably more important than the political, but don’t pretend it’s not there.The Orange has all of the same interests, but until recently had the political to the fore. This has certainly changed in recent years.
Both organisations at leadership level struggle to control the grassroots ( see GAA HQ’s problems over the Casement Park Hunger Strike rally for instance)
“There are growing numbers of protestants in the rep today. But then again you probably have never been to the republic have you?”
Well I have- hundreds of times- and I see lots of Nigerians, South Africans, and Brits in the pews in Dublin and Cork, but not too many “indigenous Prods”. With the slowing down of the Celtic pussy I wonder how many will still be there in a decade.
“a union with Britain equals protection of the protestant faith you insist.”
..er no. The Protestant faith is big enough to comprise a hundred variants, which can look after themselves or die out. It’s the Protestant community that the Union protects- ad incidentlly the only ecumenical movement for that community is the Orange order. I would never have darkened the door of a Church of Ireland ( except for funerals and weddings) but for the Orange round of church services and church related functions it supports
The union never did damn all for protestants or protestant community (penal laws applied to Presbyterians too). Why are many of the fathers of Irish liberation of protestant faith. Being a protestant is about the reformation,not some politico-religious mix of orangism and colonialism.
You go on with all this nonsense in the north about “oh how protestants are badly treated in the rep” There might have been some small incidents during the civil war etc but thats it! You will find it very hard to find a prod of any denomination in the Rep who will support your argument. If there are i haven’t met any yet. There are prod TDs many prod business, the two major churches in Dublin are protestant, the catholics have no real proper cathedral. CI church is televised as much as any other.Oh but the republic is a cold house for prods, nonsense, churches don’t get attacked here they do in NI.
We dont march around in bunches advertising the fact were prods and that we have to kick the pope to upset the catholics, its our own business what we do. Religion and belief are private feelings that are not the concern of others. Only in sectarian NI is religion an important factor. and we don’t vote for shinners in the rep.
This why i say unionism is an emotional position supported by fear of having to share a future, a future that would be chosen by all Irish people of which unionists are a part.
Unionists are people who have lost their identity as anglo-irish an identity their ancestors accepted, and have instead clung to British symbolism to differentiate themselves from the rest of the Irish people.
Ireland was divided by the British for their gain (or loss as it turned out) against the will of the people. This has created a statelet where 42% want out. Not a good outlook for long term stability. Its easy to see which model was a success. The troubles in the north are not due to religion, the problem is British rule has no place in Ireland.
hotdogx,
“There might have been some small incidents during the civil war etc”
Are you familiar with the Peter Hart’s book ‘The IRA and its enemies’.
Nationalists have a tendency to underplay the sectarian element running through many aspects of Nationlaist controlled society/instutions but (although leaving myself open to the same charge) I think it fair to say that sectarianism is a significantly smaller factor in Nationalist politics than it is in Unionist politics.
“Unionists are people who have lost their identity as anglo-irish an identity their ancestors accepted, and have instead clung to British symbolism to differentiate themselves from the rest of the Irish people”
bollix
Unionism is the multi-faceted British-Irish identity that includes Ulster-Scots, and Anglo-Irish. It was nationalism that reacted against that identity, and proscribed a form of Irishness that excluded the British element,because of insecurities about the democratic validity of the new state.The need to forge a different identity was a nationalist requirement, not a Unionist one, but of course Unionism reacted in kind
I think it fair to say that sectarianism is a significantly smaller factor in Nationalist politics than it is in Unionist politics.
Posted by It was Sammy McNally what done it on Aug 04, 2008 @ 02:16 PM…………………………………………
That is utter boll*cks and you know it. None of the mainstream Unionist parties have a private army of Provie anti-British bigots behind them who brutally murdered at least 1,822 people, the vast majority of whom were murdered because of their politics, faith and/or nationality.
Concerned Loyalist
I think you are muddling up a couple of things here – violent Republican ideology based on a political objective is not the same thing as sectarianism. You could argue – which I’m sure you would – that it is worse but the same thing it aint.
‘None of the mainstream Unionist parties have a private army of Provie anti-British bigots behind them’
Indeed, they had the collective armed forces of Britain, as well as the colonist militia death squads commonly referred to as loyalists to play with.
‘It was Sammy McNally what done it’ – “I dont see any reason why the Orange Order halls should not have a publically agreed arrangement with the nearest GAA club local that in the event of an attack each side would help to clean up.”
The idea is good in theory. But the stumbling block comes back to GAA clubs named after Republican death squad members. It would be an insult to the members of the Orange Order who have had their kith and kin murdered by such Republicans.
Outsider – “Its seems that in public particularly in workplaces Protestant have to endure endless conversations about Gaelic, I’m sure if we mentioned the twelfth there would be a deadly silence.”
Very true. As they admit they are a Nationalist organisation with a sporting wing, Protestants shouldn’t have to endure discussions about a political group.
hotdogx – “You must really hate Irish people and all things Irish.”
Unionists have no problem with all things Irish in a British context. Also, you conveniently forget the Protestant minority in the RoI who were discriminated against and had to keep silent or be driven out. The RoI tricolour is a foreign flag – fact – as Northern Ireland is part of the UK. You can choose to associate yourself with it – but it’s foreign.
To Greagoir O Frainclin – Picking selective events does not prove or justify anything.
To Billy – The usual rant from you which I will ignore. You clearly don’t want a Protestant about the place.
pfhl – “Where do the unwarranted attacks on the GAA come from?”
See above as regards their assocation with murdering terrorists. Have you been asleep?
It was Sammy McNally what done it – “violent Republican ideology based on a political objective is not the same thing as sectarianism”
Try telling that to the Protestant families along the border who suffered ethnic cleansing because they were Protestants.
The original question I asked was:
Do you think it would be OK to name a football stadium after a member of the modern day UVF/LVF/UDA who played football for their local team?
Besides a couple of exceptions we’ve had the usual silence from the Pan-Nationalist front. I assume the silence means that it wouldn’t be acceptable. Therefore I expect you all to be in contact with the GAA leadership over this issue.
darth rumsfeld as usual makes very interesting reading. Thankx.
Unionism is the multi-faceted British-Irish identity that includes Ulster-Scots, and Anglo-Irish.
And excludes >40% of the population who do not wish to be ruled by Britain.
It was nationalism that reacted against that identity, and proscribed a form of Irishness that excluded the British element
That’s a strange (and inaccurate) way of putting it.
Better to say that they decided they didn’t want to be part of the British Empire.
If you can get your head around that concept, things will start to make more sense to you.
Again with the crying about the names of clubs etc !!!!
Obviously then the same people are willing to see the removal of place or street names using the likes of Cromwell or Chichester etc on it. As there are many names used by the colonial establishment which have a bad, bad reputation within the native irish community.
It’s interesting that many commentators who formerly denied that nationalist sectarianism existed because the denial served the interests of the Shinners are now keen to admit that nationalist sectarianism does exist because that acceptance now serves the interests of the Shinners, i.e. “Nationalist sectarianism, thy name is dissidency.”
Concerned Loyalist
I think you are muddling up a couple of things here – violent Republican ideology based on a political objective is not the same thing as sectarianism. You could argue – which I’m sure you would – that it is worse but the same thing it aint.
Posted by It was Sammy McNally what done it on Aug 04, 2008 @ 10:29 PM…………………………………………
So the Kingsmill massacre was “based on a political objective”? May I remind you:
On January 5, 1976, a Ford Transit mini-bus carried sixteen textile workers travelling home from work in Glenanne to Bessbrook along the Whitecross to Bessbrook road, of whom five were Catholics and eleven were Protestants. Four of the Catholics got out at Whitecross, while the remainder continued on the road to Bessbrook. At this point, the coach was stopped by a group of approximately twelve armed men waiting on the road. At first, the workers assumed that they were being stopped and searched by a British Army or RUC checkpoint, and when ordered to line up beside the bus, they obeyed. However, at this point, the gunmen ordered the only Catholic, Richard Hughes, to step forward. Hughes’ workmates thought then that the armed men were loyalists, come to kill Hughes and tried to stop him from identifying himself, however, when he stepped forward, he was told, “Get down the road and don’t look back”.
The remaining eleven men were shot, with Armalite rifles, SLRs, a 9mm pistol and an M1 carbine, a total of 136 rounds were fired in less than a minute. Ten men died at the scene, and one, Alan Black, survived despite having eighteen gunshot wounds.
This was only one of dozens of examples of border Protestants being murdered for their faith by the viscerally sectarian South Armagh Brigade of the Provisional IRA, so don’t come on here defending the undefendable.
The Provos weren’t freedom fighters, they were a centrally organised group of sectarian murder gangs.
Louis Leonard was gnned down in his shop by Protestant cricket loving, Windsor Park trippers, the same type of scum who have been responsible for murdering other GAA members and luring Catholic women to their deaths. Protestant sectariand, In Fermanagh and elsewhere, who have no interest in the GAA, should keep their noses out of the GAA. Donagh’s decision was correct. The views of the B Specials/UDR/PSNI are irrelevant. Rapists should not comment on those they have abused.
Concerned Loyalist
“The Provos weren’t freedom fighters, they were a centrally organised group of sectarian murder gangs”
I did not say that Republicans did not carry out sectarian killings but that “Republican ideology was based on a political objective” the removal of the British – and not on sectarianism – the vast majority of their ‘operations’ were designed to undermine the British presence and had feck all to do with religion.
Oswald Murphy – “should keep their noses out of the GAA”.
Louis Leonard was an active member of a Sinn Fein PIRA death squad involved in murdering Protestants in Fermanagh. The GAA claims it is a sporting organisation and therefore receives funding from the taxpayer as well as getting extensive coverage on the BBC – again funded by the general public. So it is our business.
Just like RepublicanStones, you fail to answer the question: Do you think it would be OK to name a football stadium after a member of the modern day UVF/LVF/UDA who played football for their local team?
Protestant sectariand, In Fermanagh and elsewhere, who have no interest in the GAA, should keep their noses out of the GAA.
Don’t worry Oswald – as far as I know the only Prod playing GAA in Fermanagh finally wrapped the place up as a bad job – in fact he left the country altogether….I’m sure your like-minded kinsfolk helped him make his decision no end when they started with the broken windows and burning cars…
Nice CL, bring up the old Kingsmill chestnut. you did however leave out one vital piece of information, the survivor reported that the leader of the Kingsmill group spoke with an english accent. just like the leader of the miami showband guys. funny that aint it? i suggest you go away and read about General Frank Kitson and his sickening colonial war polices which were incorporated into the north. You see CL, the brits used your ‘people’ as pawns, uncomfortable truth, but truth nonetheless.
It’s the fault of everyone else except you RS – and your blood-soaked Sinn Fein PIRA friends.
Great comeback P&J;, just great !
The brits done more murdering than you give them credit for, truth hurts !
To RS – You seem to have found your ‘voice’ again after failing to answer the question: Do you think it would be OK to name a football stadium after a member of the modern day UVF/LVF/UDA who played football for their local team?
No, obvioulsy nobody likes colonial militia death squad members save those whose narrow bigoted agenda they serve. Ideally politicsd and sport shouldn’t mix, but given the british establishments trweatment of the GAA and the irish people at large, throughout history i can fully understand people choosing to do so. But you seem to think its ok to have streets named after mass murderers here in Ireland, so you can’t have it both ways. So are you now advocating the renaming of these places?
Also i don’t recall you asking me that outright in the first place, i may be wrong.
You talk about the naming of streets from earlier conflicts on the island. In Eire there are also many places named after people from earlier conflicts.
I asked about the modern day UVF/LVF/UDA given that most Pan-Nationalists seem to support the naming of GAA venues after Sinn Fein PIRA and IRSP INLA murderers.
For the modern day UVF/LVF/UDA you say “no, obviously” and for Sinn Fein PIRA you say “i can fully understand people choosing to do so”.
Your answers speak for themselves and show the hypocritical attitude of Pan-Nationalists.
‘from earlier conflicts on the island’
Laughable, considering its been one long conflict with intermittent periods of peace. Are you seriously suggesting the Troubles had nothing to do with previous history here in Ireland????? Are you for real???????
We know your policy now P&J;, you can use the names of murdering ethnic cleansing scumbags from the british establishment legacy, but we irish can’t use names of people who were lollipop men by comparison. Your bigotry is there for all to see, well done.