Orangefest – first verdict
How has the rebranding of the Twelfth come across to us exiles? “Work in progress,” is probably the safest verdict. It’s always hard for the interested abroad to judge how much real menace and threat lies behind the typical reports of rioting and injured policemen . I noted the attack on Rasharkin Orange Hall and it’s dangerous potential. The SundayTribune’s report Orange streets awash with booze and vomit concentrated on other forms of unpleasantness.
Twelfth fans will no doubt claim the the press were simply repeating the usual stereotypes.
The idea of Orangefest as explained by the BBC did not impress everyone in the client base for whom, as we know, change isn’t always easy
And Grand Master Robert Saulters, speaking at the Dromara field, can be said to be not entirely on message just yet
“It is sickening to us, following such dastardly attacks on our people for 35 years, to see the commanders of that enemy sitting in government today acting as politicians who care for the peaceful existence of the people.”
Those of us with long memories know that often ( if not always) those speeches are more ritual than reality. I suspect the lesson for the esteemed First Minister is ” not a bad roll-out, must try harder”.
And yes, I did get the message from the PSNI, that it was a mainly peaceful day.
umh,
Out of curiosity where did you ‘celebrate’ the Twelfth? Also are you in one of these bands? Don’t be coy.
Splitting hairs maybe but I wouldn’t call the people who did this republicans.
I completly understand the anger of people in Rasharkin at the arrogance and triumphalism of loyalists but I would not condone this type of behaviour. It sounds like a good old Irish eighteenth-century faction fight as portrayed by Punch magazine – demeaning to all concerned.
There is a definite problem with parades in Rasharkin but so far the Parades Commission has bottled it.
“[i]Out of curiosity where did you ‘celebrate’ the Twelfth? Also are you in one of these bands? Don’t be coy.”[/i]
That would be no business of yours.
“[i]Splitting hairs maybe but I wouldn’t call the people who did this republicans.”[/i]
some would say the same of IRA/Sinn Fein. It’s a good cop-out.
“[i]I completly understand the anger of people in Rasharkin at the arrogance and triumphalism of loyalists but I would not condone this type of behaviour.”[/i]
I take it you mean the display of loyalist memorabilia like the UDA/UVF as being arrogant and triumphalism, or is there more?
“[i]It sounds like a good old Irish eighteenth-century faction fight as portrayed by Punch magazine – demeaning to all concerned.”[/i]
demeaning to the victims?
“[i]There is a definite problem with parades in Rasharkin but so far the Parades Commission has bottled it.”[/i]
What is the definitive problem in Rasharkin? (I take it you know it’s past history of parades and community relations)
”Out of curiosity where did you ‘celebrate’ the Twelfth? Also are you in one of these bands? Don’t be coy.”
That would be no business of yours.
Maybe it’s not but you could still tell me. What is there to hide umh? After all I thought you were meant to be proud.
”Splitting hairs maybe but I wouldn’t call the people who did this republicans.”
some would say the same of IRA/Sinn Fein. It’s a good cop-out.
Fair enough but my point remains. Setting about a bunch of Orangemen with hurley sticks does nothing for liberty, equality or fraternity.
Incidentally, today is the 219th anniversary of the storming of the Bastille.
”I completly understand the anger of people in Rasharkin at the arrogance and triumphalism of loyalists but I would not condone this type of behaviour.”
I take it you mean the display of loyalist memorabilia like the UDA/UVF as being arrogant and triumphalism, or is there more?
I think the tensions in this village arise to a large extent from the Ballymaconnelly band parade and all that comes with it. I appreciate that the Twelfth is a bit more ‘restrained’ but nevertheless some of the same parties will have been involved.
”It sounds like a good old Irish eighteenth-century faction fight as portrayed by Punch magazine – demeaning to all concerned.”
demeaning to the victims?
I think the whole situation is demeaning full stop.
”There is a definite problem with parades in Rasharkin but so far the Parades Commission has bottled it.”
What is the definitive problem in Rasharkin? (I take it you know it’s past history of parades and community relations)
I am aware of the problems in the past in this village and in the north Antrim area. I would say that the problem is the determination of the loyalists to impose themselves on Catholic people in Rasharkin and that the band parade is the worst manifestation of this.
I would defend the right of Orangemen to parade in Rasharkin provided they do so in a manner which respects the dignity of all. I believe that the residents are amenable to this.
I am not from Rasharkin and indeed I have never been there though I have followed what has gone on there down the years and researched the matter extensively on the Internet.
I protested (successfully) against the Tour of the North parade several years ago and I am in complete solidarity with those in Rasharkin who ask to be shown a basic level of RESPECT.
So there’s my story. What’s yours?
repubicanstones
“Who said he was, i merely said the carnal desires of a fat ginger king was responsible….i suggest you go back and start again. Are you inferring the fat ginger had nothing to do with protestanism coming to britain?”
Sincere apologies for the delay in responding to your post. We are in very different time zones.
OK let’s, as you suggest, start again. Henry’s son Edward VI was succeeded by his sister Mary. The English historian G M Trevelyan neatly summed up the mood of the English people at her succession as “Catholic, nationalist and anticlerical”. “Catholic” because they were content enough to worship God much as their fathers had always done, “nationalist” because of the newly emerging post-mediaeval sense of “Englishness” and “anticlerical” because they had had too much of over-mighty priests (Wolsey, et al). The first factor, coupled with the religious disturbances of Protestant Edward’s reign, gave Mary a real chance of returning England to the Catholic fold. She blew it by, firstly, handing over the spiritual governance of her people to Spanish and Italian prelates and, secondly, proceeding to burn some 400 Prods, mainly for their desire to read the Bible in their own tongue. Pace James Orr above, this was one of the sparks that set Protestantism alight in England (“Fear not Master Ridley … for this day we shall light such a candle in England as, by God’s grace, shall never be put out”).
“Are you inferring the fat ginger had nothing to do with protestanism coming to britain?”
Of course not. But you have chosen to ignore completely the question: Had Henry been able to buy his annulment from Rome as heaps of people had done previously (Margaret of Denmark, etc) how would this have affected the Protestant revolution? Little more, I suggest, than the history of the Vatican would have been affected by “the carnal desires” of the Borgias.
I am Henry the 8th i am, Henry the 8th i am i am, i got married to the women next door…..
“[i]Setting about a bunch of Orangemen with hurley sticks does nothing for liberty, equality or fraternity.”[/i]
They’re learning from Republicans of old, who used violence against Protestants as an intimidation tactic, while peddling their liberty and equality propaganda to the rest of the world.
“[i]I think the tensions in this village arise to a large extent from the Ballymaconnelly band parade and all that comes with it. I appreciate that the Twelfth is a bit more ‘restrained’ but nevertheless some of the same parties will have been involved. “[/i]
Why haven’t you mentioned Rasharkin’s Sons of Ireland Republican band flute band, who dress in full terrorist regalia through the village, as having a part to play in stoking up tensions? Your good at talking about liberty and equality, but it’s only when it suits you!
“[i]I am aware of the problems in the past in this village and in the north Antrim area. I would say that the problem is the determination of the loyalists to impose themselves on Catholic people in Rasharkin and that the band parade is the worst manifestation of this.[/i]
You’ve never mentioned the peaceful times, when parades in the village were never viewed as imposing or intimidating. You’ve either avoided it or you’re a young whipper-snapper, too young to remember the peaceful times before Republican sectarianism warped the minds of good Catholics.
Let me remind you that before the troubles and even during the troubles, the vast majority of Rasharkin’s Catholics watched the Orange parade with their Protestant neighbours and they attended dances in the Orange hall with their Protestant friends. Rasharkin was a peaceful village before Republican terrorism turned it into a sectarian hatefeast in the late 70′s.
“[i]I would defend the right of Orangemen to parade in Rasharkin provided they do so in a manner which respects the dignity of all. I believe that the residents are amenable to this.”[/i]
And what would this entail? a single drum beat? in a field somewhere?…..sure you’d be better exterminating us once and for all if you hate us that much!
“[i]I am not from Rasharkin and indeed I have never been there though I have followed what has gone on there down the years and researched the matter extensively on the Internet.”[/i]
so you’ll agree with me that Republicans turned the village into a sectarian hatefeast before any UVF/UDA memorabilia was introduced?
“[i]I protested (successfully) against the Tour of the North parade several years ago and I am in complete solidarity with those in Rasharkin who ask to be shown a basic level of RESPECT.”[/i]
What is this basic level of respect? Nationalist and Republicans started protested against the whole idea of a parade, they never started protesting against the UVF/UDA emblems, because this was a reactionary addition to the Sons of Ireland flute band dressing in full terrorist regalia.
again, what is this basic level of respect?
They’re learning from Republicans of old, who used violence against Protestants as an intimidation tactic, while peddling their liberty and equality propaganda to the rest of the world.
Has undertones of the peep o day boys.
“[i]Has undertones of the peep o day boys”[/i]
It has nothing of the sort, the Peep-O-Day boys were a reactionary force against the defenders. Why were they called the Defenders, was it because they were defending the current kings rules?
Regarding the booze fest that is the twelfth, I happened to witness two police officers confronting two men with a case of carlsberg. We had just driven down Balmoral avenue, a few minutes before the parade was due, and just the other side of the flyover at the kings hall. So some police officers were trying to limit the boozing.
My relatives on the upper ormeau road said that they could never remember a quieter twelfth, bar the blarring of sectarian ‘music’, coming from the orange hall all over the district. The road was dead.
The orange order needs some real leadership now. It is dying a rapid death.
Is there anyone capable of such leadership??
Let me remind you that before the troubles and even during the troubles, the vast majority of Rasharkin’s Catholics watched the Orange parade with their Protestant neighbours and they attended dances in the Orange hall with their Protestant friends. Rasharkin was a peaceful village before Republican terrorism turned it into a sectarian hatefeast in the late 70’s.
Now that’s what I would call a hoary old chestnut!
Why haven’t you mentioned Rasharkin’s Sons of Ireland Republican band flute band, who dress in full terrorist regalia through the village, as having a part to play in stoking up tensions? Your good at talking about liberty and equality, but it’s only when it suits you!
Because I have never heard of them and their parades do have a high profile in the media unlike the loyalist marches in Rasharkin. I do not have any time for these kind of bands at all – imititation is the sincerest form of flattery in my view. I would assume that if their parade goes where it is not welcome it would be restricted.
But let’s go back to the golden days of yesteryear when all was quiet and Fenians knew their place.
I re-read a biography of Paisley recently and it mentioned a rumpus he kicked up in Rasharkin in the 1950s when the GAA wanted to have some kind of procession to their ground on a Sunday. Well of course Paisley wasn’t having any of that and kicked up a stink because this procession would pass a Sunday school. He and his bully boys got their way and the procession was cancelled. Fifty years on and Rasharkin has the Sons of Ireland Flute Band. How times have changed!
Are you from round those parts yourself umh? Just wondering about your level of knowledge. Do you seriously think I’m going to climb out of your computr and batter you with a hurling stick?
The Sons of Ireland have a website
RSOIFB
It’s fair to say that they appear quite militaristic. Perhaps they are commemorating those who fought in the Easter Rising or the Tan War – eh, betcha never thought of that!?
And it not as if they are going out of their way to offend Protestants. Their schedule for this year (apart from Rasharkin) includes Derry, Dunloy, Toome, Kilrea, Swatragh, Gulladuff, Draperstown, Carrickmore and Dungiven – all places which are strongly nationalist.
But I am not a spokesman for this band. They should not march where they are not wanted and they don’t appear to do so – that’s it. Loyalists on the otherhand…
The next generation of OnG
Well atleast the Sons of Ireland don’t have some silly twat out front waving a sword
UMH
You forgot to remind folks that the nuns used to serve scones and tea at the field to the weary marchers.
“[i]But let’s go back to the golden days of yesteryear when all was quiet and Fenians knew their place.”[/i]
This is exactly the type of mindset which creates sectarianism and division. While you’re trying to peddle the idea ‘Fenians knew their place’, Protestants must also have ‘known their place’ during Ancient Order of Hibernian parades.
…and don’t try to tell me they didn’t parade past homes where Protestants lived, no-one will buy it.
“[i]I re-read a biography of Paisley recently and it mentioned a rumpus he kicked up in Rasharkin in the 1950s when the GAA wanted to have some kind of procession to their ground on a Sunday. Well of course Paisley wasn’t having any of that and kicked up a stink because this procession would pass a Sunday school. He and his bully boys got their way and the procession was cancelled.”[/i]
Imagine Catholics wanting to parade through a Protestant village, and on a sunday too. I thought it was only Protestants who done that! I do see your point about Paisley and those like him who believes their always right while others are wrong. If Paisley left anything good for N.Ireland, it’s a memory of how not to do things. However, I believe his protest against the GAA was primarily about the sacrilege of the Sabbath.
“[i]Fifty years on and Rasharkin has the Sons of Ireland Flute Band. How times have changed!”[/i]
They were created in the 70′s, and after their creation the Republican campaign of sectarianism and intimidation drove 90% of the Protestant families out of Rasharkin.
“[i]Are you from round those parts yourself umh? Just wondering about your level of knowledge. Do you seriously think I’m going to climb out of your computr and batter you with a hurling stick?”[/i]
…like I’m worried about you with or without a hurley stick. It’s none of your business if I’m in a lodge, band or where I live. I’ll not be giving you or your ilk the chance to blacken anyone or anything close to me by something I might say in the spur of the moment on a forum. I’ve read the IRA green book and I know how you lot work.
“[i]But I am not a spokesman for this band. They should not march where they are not wanted and they don’t appear to do so – that’s it. Loyalists on the otherhand… “[/i]
picador, you just don’t get it, do you? What if Protestants in those areas which you say are largely Nationalists receive ‘outside’ help from loyalist paramilitaries in protesting against these parades? Will you support the banning of that parade? Will you continue to support the banning of all other parades where there’s obvious organisation by loyalist paramilitaries? When does the carve up of normal communities stop?
You’re ignorance against Protestant parades actually is denying everyone their right to parade and even could go as far as destroying their civil and religious liberty, if left unchallenged. If you can’t see how this parading issue will eventually play out, you my Catholic friend, are a complete dunce.
There is no doubt that if fourteen policemen were seriously injured in a sectarian riot in Britain, extensive film of the incident would certainly have been shown on national televison. Otherwise serious questions would be asked about censorship in the BBC.
In fact, there was only a passing reference to the Portadown riot – a sentence perhaps – but again there was no film footage of the riot in Portadown. The BBC for some reason was reluctant to broadcast the continuing reality of sectarianism in Northern Ireland. And as a result viewers here remain ill-informed.
Taff,
Northern Ireland is the setting for some of the British states dirtiest little secrets which the government do not want you to know about, e.g collusion.
The BBC (and most of the British media it must be said) are a party to covering this up.
The line this year is that Northern Ireland is moving on and the Orange Order is moving on with it. Nothing will be broadcast on mainstream British media which contradicts this line.
Dirty secrets – a brief example:
On 4 December 1971 a no-warning bomb destroyed McGurk’s bar in North Queen Street, Belfast killing 15 men, women and children ans wounding many more. The British Army put out mis-information to the effect that the bomb was being handled by people inside the bar and was an IRA ‘own goal’. Politicians and Westminister and the media went along with this line. In fact Loyalists had planted the bomb and the army knew this all along but preferred to blacken the names of the dead and injured in order to discredit the IRA.
After 37 years on campaigning on the issue the relatives of the victims finally forced an apology from the British government. The apology was read in the House of Commons on Monday by Paul Goggins MP, junior Northern Ireland minister with responisbility for ‘security’. No doubt the house was empty like it usually is when NI is discussed. Unsurprisingly the story was not picked up in the British press.
15 people, 37 years and an obscure junior secretary. That’s British justice for you!