Shock…Horror….Disbelief…’Anti-British’ Larne Council refuse to erect loyalist bunting!
Orangemen in Larne have staged a protest outside Council buildings after the Council failed to erect (and pay for) red, white and blue bunting in the town. The DUP Mayor, Bobby McKee, cited equality laws as the reason why Larne Council has failed to erect the bunting. A Council spokesperson claimed they had asked the Order to seek funding for “cultural activities” which could have been used to pay for the bunting, which raises the intriguing prospect of Larne Council paying for green, white and orange bunting under cultural activities were it to be sought at some stage.
“…have been in this part of Ireland for thousands of years…”
In yer bollix yiz have. Sure most of yiz turned up looking for jobs after our crowd built the shipyards, et al.
“They can profess to be whatever the hell they like, it still doesn’t change the matter. They are in the union of Great Britian and N.Ireland (whether they like it or not) and the national colours are red, white and blue. If they don’t like it, they can live somewhere else. You wouldn’t oppose buntings going up in the national colours in any other country, so don’t do it here!”
“Not in British N.Ireland. If you really want to live where the colours of Irish nationalism are displayed in any legitimate sense, go to the Republic and stop living in some wee fantasy world in N.Ireland, for this is British soil and will remain so, Tally-Ho! ”
“Before the Pope gave ‘your’ island to the English, was it the common hiberni who were the Irish? or maybe it was the noble Scots who were the Irish?. What if you go back further, were the Priteni (Cruithni, in old Irish), were they the real Irish?”
Hello again ‘Ulster’s my homeland’ – Oh dear oh dear, what a travesty of opinions above. BTW, but Ulster is my honeland too! Hard to believe that such opinions being expressed by yourself in this day and age! But maybe ye are of the very old stock.
Regarding the ‘Red Hand of Ulster’, Please let us Irish folk have our symbol back – don’t take that from us too. The ‘Red Hand of Ulster’, symbol of the Irish Gaelic clan, the O’Neills of Ulster, not the UVF, the UDA, or whatever! Gas really that ye talk of the myths of Irish nationalism;…. and then ye try stealing Cúchulainn too to bolster yer flimsy position! Tut Tut!
Regarding the Cruithni, but we are all of the Cruithni too! Gerry and Martin are members of the ancient Cruithni too. All of us in the ‘British Isles’ derived from the tribes of ancient Spain as modern genetic evidence has proven, Milesians in other words!
Read ‘Blood of the Isles’ by Bryan Sykes and
‘The Atlantean Irish’ by Bob Quinn. Might help you with your confused identity! Might help to curtail your inane opinions and comments regarding Irish and British history!
UMH
I think you’re missing the point.
The Council have 2 choices – either fund the Red, White + Blue bunting AND fund Green, White and Orange bunting or fund neither – which they have chosen.
This issue wouldn’t arise in GB where most people wouldn’t object to red, white and blue bunting.
This is only 1 of many laws i.e flags and emblems that are NOT applied in NI in the same way they are in GB.
The point is that NI is NOT regarded by the British govt or people as being an integral part of GB or the laughable “as British as Finchley”.
If Unionists in NI want to have red, white and blue bunting etc at Council expense that’s fine -they’ll just have to ensure that exactly the same rights are afforded to Nationalists – how times have changed eh?
Likewise, the rules about flying the Union Jack from public buildings will be chnaged in GB but NOT in NI. It doesn’t matter how much Unionists MOPE – the GB govt will not take measures that will antagonise 45%+ of the population.
If you want to live somewhere where the Union Jack will be flown from public buildings every day and/or there is no issue with red, white and blue bunting then I suggest you move to GB.
Those days are long gone in NI and they won’t ever be coming back.
Just another group of whingers looking for a handout for something completely unproductive.
“[i]Hello again ‘Ulster’s my homeland’ – Oh dear oh dear, what a travesty of opinions above. BTW, but Ulster is my honeland too! Hard to believe that such opinions being expressed by yourself in this day and age! But maybe ye are of the very old stock. “[/i]
I live in the present Greagoir, you are the one living in the past. When you propose that Irish Nationalists be allowed to fly their bunting in N.Ireland as a parity of esteem exercise, you are hyping back to a dying age when Brian Boru tried to claim Ulster and it’s people for himself. Don’t you get it? You lot haven’t changed from Brian Boru’s time, still the same old land grabbers, with the tired old ‘Ireland for the Irish’ mentality.
“[i]Regarding the ‘Red Hand of Ulster’, Please let us Irish folk have our symbol back – don’t take that from us too. “[/i]
You Irish seem to want everything. The redhand is a symble of Ulster, not Ireland.
“[i]The ‘Red Hand of Ulster’, symbol of the Irish Gaelic clan, the O’Neills of Ulster, not the UVF, the UDA, or whatever!”[/i]
The O’Neill saga was brought about by a number of factors including European affairs and religion, it was certainly not about some Irish Nationalist ideology, but true to form you Irish like to make out that it was. The island wasn’t even united during O’Neills reign, so how can you claim he was Irish? He certainly was Gaelic, but Irish? lol
Why do you seem to think everything Gaelic has to be associated with Ireland or being Irish? That’s another myth you Irish have peddled for centuries.
“[i]Gas really that ye talk of the myths of Irish nationalism;…. “[/i]
….agian you seem blind to who is actually creating the myths.
“[i]and then ye try stealing Cuchullain too to bolster yer flimsy position! Tut Tut! “[/i]
Cuchullain, the ‘Irishman’ who defended Ulster against the Irish, lol? Something not quite right about that sentence. Never mind, say it quick and no one will notice!
“[i]Regarding the Cruithni, but we are all of the Cruithni too! Gerry and Martin are members of the ancient Cruithni too.”[/i]
Not all people on the island are descended from the Priteni (Cruithni in old Irish), . Adams, I believe has Ulster-Scots blood in him, but he chooses to go the Irish root, because he was indoctrinated with this land-grabbing, ‘Irish island’ mythology from an early age. He also was born into a family who only seen their heritage with Irish goggles. McGuinness is most probably descended from the ancient Priteni, and he too has lost his true Ulster roots for an invasive Irish identity which was foreign to his Priteni ancestors. It’s a real shame!
Beano
“Clady, I was about to ask if you were from Tyrone yourself (until reading the following comment) because I simply can’t believe your claim about the “vast majority of Nationalists”. Tyrone-folk maybe. Maybe it’s an east-west thing, but the ones I know wouldn’t countenance it.”
Maybe my comment does only holds for Tyrone. However, there is a Red Hand in the Antrim GAA crest(as there is on Monaghan and Cavan’s too) so any Belfastman wearing that top is displaying it.
“(BTW the icon I was referring to was open-palmed but had the 6-pointed star – I thought it was marginally less ‘political’ than the NI flag (complete with crown) but apparently I was wrong as this was what they suggested using instead!!)”
It is less political than with the crown upon it and the guy was an eejit to be offended. The 6-point star is making a statement though. The Red Hand is such a powerful symbol there really is no need to ‘add’ to its symbolism or ‘update’ its meaning. It makes it easier to share that way.
ggn
realised after i replied to you that you must have meant Clady in Armagh and that you are a citizen of that county. Good luck to you, sir, but even more to the Ernemen
Ulster’s my homeland
“You Irish seem to want everything. The redhand is a symble of Ulster, not Ireland.”
Going past the obvious that Ulster is of Ireland, it should also be noted that the Red Hand was not Ulster specific but its popular adoption by many of the Gaelic clans in Ulster led to it being identified as the Red Hand of Ulster and not Red Hand of Ireland (as it may originally have been)
“[i]If Unionists in NI want to have red, white and blue bunting etc at Council expense that’s fine -they’ll just have to ensure that exactly the same rights are afforded to Nationalists – how times have changed eh?”[/i]
…and what would be wrong with that? I don’t have a problem with Irish Nationalists getting bunting put up in whatever colours they want. If they want to put up Green, white and Gold bunting under a Union flag that’s up to them, but I’d much rather see them accept the red diagonal of the union flag, it belongs to them.
“[i]Likewise, the rules about flying the Union Jack from public buildings will be chnaged in GB but NOT in NI. It doesn’t matter how much Unionists MOPE – the GB govt will not take measures that will antagonise 45%+ of the population.”[/i]
Flying the national flag is not similar to getting bunting put up. If Brown wants to increase flying the Union flag in GB, that’s up to him and te people of GB. It doesn’t mean the flying of the Union flag in N.Ireland will change.
The flag of this country is the Union flag, if Nationalists want to live under the pretense that their flag is the Republic of Ireland flag, that’s up to them. The St. Patrick flag represents them and I’d rather see them become a full part of this country instead of latching onto some island nation pipe dream instead of thinking they’re only a two-bit player. Maybe they want to be two-bit players, who knows!
“[i]If you want to live somewhere where the Union Jack will be flown from public buildings every day and/or there is no issue with red, white and blue bunting then I suggest you move to GB.”[/i]
I’m don’t care whether it’s flown every day or if there’s 10 flying, that fact that’s it’s flown is good enough for me. So I won’t be moving any time soon.
“[i]Those days are long gone in NI and they won’t ever be coming back.”[/i]
What on earth are you talking about? Brown is not changing the situation here. What he does in GB is his business. It doesn’t effect the status quo here so get over it, nothing is changing!
Clady Cowboy
“[i]Going past the obvious that Ulster is of Ireland, it should also be noted that the Red Hand was not Ulster specific but its popular adoption by many of the Gaelic clans in Ulster led to it being identified as the Red Hand of Ulster and not Red Hand of Ireland (as it [b]may[/b] originally have been)”[/i]
may, probably, likely, presumably…..I love these words, don’t you?
Ulster’s my homeland
“may, probably, likely, presumably…..I love these words, don’t you?”
One tends to gravitate towards these types of words when discussing the ancient origins of a mythical symbol.
Good for you that you are able to talk without such reserve.
P.S The O’Neill clan was spread out across Ireland so it may have been on family crests in Meath long before a gable wall in Belfast..but again, this is only an educated surmisation.
Not only looking for handouts but accepting them from the financially independent RoI as well!
“[i]P.S The O’Neill clan was spread out across Ireland so it may have been on family crests in Meath long before a gable wall in Belfast..but again, this is only an educated surmisation.”[/i]
Clady Cowboy, while we’re making these educated guesses in regard to the hand’s original origins, may I remind you that many different types of hands were used to represent Scottish clans after the Norman families arrived in the 12th century, the golden age of heraldry. Unless we have solid evidence suggesting that the red hand was used before the Norman influence, then we could surmise that th Normans brought the hand symbol with them and the O’Neill’s adopted it.
Im from Tyrone, I love the red hand. I do get a good giggle that loyalists love it so much they have ‘appropriated’ it.
Also i see the old ‘leave if you don’t like it’ is being rehashed. Funny but im sure there were people asking other people to leave centuries ago, but they paid no heed.
Ulster’s my homeland
“Clady Cowboy, while we’re making these educated guesses in regard to the hand’s original origins, may I remind you that many different types of hands were used to represent Scottish clans after the Norman families arrived in the 12th century, the golden age of heraldry. Unless we have solid evidence suggesting that the red hand was used before the Norman influence, then we could surmise that th Normans brought the hand symbol with them and the O’Neill’s adopted it.”
Are you, er, taking the hand with that entire post? I’m well aware of the various theories regarding the origin of the symbol.
You seem to be proposing a theory that renders your previous posts all falsehoods. Not only is the Red hand devoid of the Ulster-specific origins you suggest but an import from northern France. I feel cheated.La main rouge. C’est la vie.
‘Ulsters my homeland’ is an absolute hoot!
A Unionist stereotype incarnate!
Tells us then UMH, what language did the Cruithni speak ….did it happen to be Ulster Scots?
Did they happen to be all Orangemen as well?
Were they members of the Reformed Church too?
You’re a bit of a silly billy, because your are rather naively and quite ridiculously superimposing today’s politics on a people that existed thousand of years ago. A people who were unaware of the concept of not only being ‘Irish’, but being ‘British’ or ‘Scots’ or whatever.
Modern archaeology and genetics doesn’t support what ever your grandfather told you.
So go on outta that, get up the yard!
Begagers can’t be choosers: Not only looking for handouts but accepting them from the financially independent RoI as well!
I live in Bangor. How much is my handout, and when will it arrive? Or am I living too far east to benefit?
“[i]You seem to be proposing a theory that renders your previous posts all falsehoods. Not only is the Red hand devoid of the Ulster-specific origins you suggest but an import from northern France. I feel cheated[/i]
Well if my theory is correct, it renders more than my posts. There’s actually more evidence that Ulster was influenced by the Norse than a simple red-hand symble. There’s also a Njall Glundubh born in the middle 9th century, Norway, who is probably an ancester of the O’Neill’s, but the O’Neill family deny this, because they want to maintain a history of pure Irish stock.
I think I can safely say that UMH is one of the funniest men/women that I have ever had the pleasure of knowing. You ever thought about doing stand up? You could be great you know! By the by anybody catch a glimpse of that Ulster-Scots pro-gramme the other night on BBC2? Absolutely hilarious!! Apparantly a vacuum cleaner is called (wait for it) a “floor sucker”!
Well as Ulster-scots is just a dialect or accented english and not a seperate language all on its own, floor sucker sounds about right.
This is gas stuff…..
“…….because they want to maintain a history of pure Irish stock.”
“Ulster is my homeland”, Mmmmmmmm, Yep indeed, possibly another candidate for the couch. Freud and Jung would detect that you display some sort of a deep neurosis and hang up about this contrived notion of ‘racial purity’ and you are projecting this onto poor ‘fenian’ paddy. This is the basis of your thoughts and it’s is leading to paranoia! Oh dear!
BTW, Ireland is a little melting pot of all folk who have settled here since time began, when folk first got the boat and migrated north. What ever the myths tell us as well as genetic and archaeological evidence but we have had many visiters to our shores – Fir Bolg, Dé Danann, Africans, Iberians, Gaels, Picts, Egyptian coptic monks, Norse, Normans, English, Welsh, Scots, UK Stag Parties, Poles, Lativians, Estonians and the rest of the Eastern Europeans, Nigerians, Romanians, Chinese, Brazilians, Americans, Australians, etc, etc…that makes Ireland a little melting pot today. BTW, how are you getting on up there in NI with all these new immigrants to your shore. Ye coping well with it?
Augh aye GOF you know how it is when the sod becomes root bound you have to turn it over and replant
UMH
“Well if my theory is correct, it renders more than my posts. There’s actually more evidence that Ulster was influenced by the Norse than a simple red-hand symble. There’s also a Njall Glundubh born in the middle 9th century, Norway, who is probably an ancester of the O’Neill’s, but the O’Neill family deny this, because they want to maintain a history of pure Irish stock.”
Newsflash:
Martin O’Neill held a press conference today at Villa park to deny that he has illegally approached Rosenborg midfielder Njall Glundubh. O’Neill admitted being an admirer of the player but added that he wanted to buy British to give a homegrown backbone to the team.
Arsene Wenger, meanwhile,is homing in on Main Rouge Caen’s hot young prospect Patrice, saying that he’d never, never, never buy British.
Wise up man, you’ve probably got a bit of O’Neill in you too.
“even backwoods councillors in Larne…Hogan”
That would be the ‘backwoodsmen’ who voluntarily have a cross community power sharing arrangement despite there being only 2 nationalist councilors out of 15.
“Who’d have thought that Larne council would stand accused of appeasing Fenians on the 12th of July? Is it April Fools’ Day? …picador”
Who accused the Council of ‘appeasing fenians’. This and many of the other comments in this thread says more about the inherant bigotry of most of the posters on Slugger and their easy stereotyping of ‘loyalist Larne’, than anything else.
Hi All,
I would imagine the laughing and fingerpointing at the ignorant and primitive Ulster Scots must be similar to the laughing and finger pointing at the ignorant and primitive gaelic speakers in past centuries. Something that their descendents are still quite annoyed about. What’s gaelic for irony?
CG
What’s gaelic for irony?
Paisley!
Hi Steve,
…and cryptic?
No standard web pages containing all your search terms were found.
Your search – njall glendubh – did not match any documents.
T’Internet says I do not exist.
Help me!
umh is like a refugee from loveulster.com
You gotta feel sorry for them, the poor deluded fools. Whatever happened to loveulster by the way?
Hi Njall,
Don’t worry you’re there…
“Genealogical records show a Njall Glundubh b. circa 850 A.D. in Norway and married to Lund Verch Echach.Parents of Njalsdatter & Muirchertach na G-Cochaill Criceann MacNEILL.
From this man Niall Glundubh the Ulster O’Neills take their surname not from Niall of the Nine Hostages. The first to take O’Neill as his surname was one Domhnall, born circa. 943 A.D. “Descendant of Niall” referring to his grandfather Niall Glundubh.”
It seems Umh’s research skills appear greater than his detractors ;o)
“Genealogical records show a Njall Glundubh b. circa 850 A.D. in Norway and married to Lund Verch Echach.Parents of Njalsdatter & Muirchertach na G-Cochaill Criceann MacNEILL.
Does anyone apart, from obsessive ethno-facsists, find this stuff relevant?
umh, ffs stop trolling! Surely there is some weird loyalist site where you can post this crap.
And for Jasus sake will the rest of you stop encouraging him. Bayfor aye gie mee floorsucker oot.
No standard web pages.
Strange that?
“Bayfor aye gie mee floorsucker oot.”
Posted by picador on Jul 10, 2008 @ 04:49 PM
lol. Absolute comedy genius! I tip my hat to you sir!
‘Congal Claen’, perhaps the only Unionist on Sluggar who appreciates their Irish/British history and heritage!
….Also, just to add ‘Niall of the Nine Hostages’ was the chieftain who supposedly kidnapped St Patrick from Britain (or from where ever) and brought him to Ireland.
…..UMH is gas!
BTW, Floorsucker = ‘hoover’…. aka ‘vacuum cleaner?’ ……great stuff!
…..has the Oolster-scoots definitive novel been written yet. Come to think of it….’Finnegans Wake’ was sort of written in Ulster-Scots when read aloud.
ie…riverrun, past Eve and Adam’s, from swerve of shore to bend
condt…
….of bay, brings us by a commodius vicus of recirculation back to Howth Castle and Environs. Sir Tristram, violer d’amores, fr’over the short sea, had passencore rearrived from North Armorica on this side the scraggy isthmus of Europe Minor to wielderfight his penisolate war: nor had topsawyer’s rocks by the stream Oconee exaggerated themselse to Laurens County’s gorgios while they went doublin their mumper all the time: nor avoice from afire bellowsed mishe mishe to tauftauf thuartpeatrick: not yet, though venissoon after, had a kidscad buttended a bland old isaac: not yet, though all’s fair in vanessy, were sosie sesthers wroth with twone nathandjoe.
Aye indeed, Oolster Scoots – and that’s where Joyce really got his inspiration!
Quag, Greg
Ardent loyalists (or true blue Ulstermen as they are occasionally wont to be known) are a source of rich pickings. One day I’d like to open a museum showing them in their full demented glory
Hi Greagoir,
Cheers for the kind words. Tho’, I think you may be being slightly unfair to many of the other Unionist posters. Would you also agree that there are many Nationalist posters who do not appreciate, the British aspect to their heritage?
I feel our heritage should be uniting us rather than dividing us. The question then is whether that union is Ireland wide or British Isles wide.
“Would you also agree that there are many Nationalist posters who do not appreciate, the British aspect to their heritage?”
Indeed there is Congal Claen and such ignorance is equally indefensible!
British isles what have they to do with Ireland
“British isles what have they to do with Ireland”
As if to underline the point. Well done Steve!
Coming back to the thread, this story is a bit of a non-event. Obviously the protesting Orangemen are either dim witted or just going through the motions cos someone at the council has probably already taken them aside and said that they can’t fund only one side of the community because under the new equality legislation the council would have to fund the ‘other side’ too. Of course that’s out of the question so the only way out of it is to not fund anyone. Problem solved, hence token Orange protest for slow learners.