Chinese dragon bad, alcohol/sectarian slogans/ flag burning ?????
Today’s Newsletter carries a report in which Rev. Stephen Dickinson objects to the presence of a chinese dragon as part of the proposed 11th Night parade in Tandragee, labelling it as “offensive” and “insults the name of Jesus Christ.” The story carried over onto the Talkback programme today, when the Rev. Dickinson further elaborated on his objections, arguing that the dragon represented a drift into including ‘pagan’ elements within the Twelfth. Taken at face value, the Rev. Dickinson’s objections could have been understood from the position of a religious figure not wanting what he believes is a celebration of protestantism to be further diminished in the same way that many religious leaders of all faiths object to the materialist ‘hijacking’ of key dates in their religious calendars. At one stage he forcefully stated that “we need to put protestantism back into the Order.” However, his argument fell down badly when he skipped over the objections of a caller about what goes on at 11th Night bonfires. (Discussion about 39 mins into programme.) The incident is also an unfortunate reminder of earlier opposition from within loyalism to the chinese community.
Gari, everything can be compared. The word people seem to mistake this for is ‘equivalence’.
ATW:
That has to be the daftest thing I’ve ever read. If nationalists ceased to be nationalists there wouldn’t be a f*ckin problem!
This has been unionism’s policy for a long time.
For years, they used to say that a united Ireland could not happen without the consent of a majority of unionists. It solves the problem quite easily, since 100% of all unionists will always be opposed to a united Ireland.
As I said CS, there wouldn’t be a problem, but how likely is it that nationalists will do that?
About zero chance.
Garibaldy
Seems to be a standard comment from me to you now, but fair enough.
Prionsa Eoghain: The six counties is a modern construct, not a natural or historical fact. You cannot have territorial ambitions over a piece of your own country, it is yours, despite present artificial conditions.
Actually, all countries are constructs, and you certainly couldn’t expect them to be ‘natural’ facts. Northern Ireland is certainly a ‘historical fact’ – its history is discussed repeatedly on this very website. As for calling Northern Ireland a piece of ‘your own country’ – does that mean you are an ex-pat Nordie, or a UK Scot, or just a republican living in the good old days before the GFA cleared up the boundaries in legislation across both the UK and the RoI?
And, since I am British, and a Nordie, and a Unionist, does that mean that you think Northern Ireland is not part of *my* ‘own country’?
PE,
No bother. I’ll try not to stoop to the easy joke in future.
RS,
I agree on the equivalance point.
Could somebody remind the Rev Dickinson that there are 1,300,000,000 Chinese on the planet approx 20% of humanity and that maybe just maybe it’s not a good idea to piss them off . Anyway St Patrick had a thing with snakes so if the Chinese have a thing with dragons why not . What’s wrong with reaching out to others in a parade . I mean it’s not as if the Chinese are parading their ‘dragons’ into an Orange church service is it ?
Remember old Chineses saying -white washed crow soon shows black feathers once again. The Rev Dickenson’s ‘black feathers’ are showing . Should be no surprise anyway the cleric is a dyed in wool black and white clerical bureaucrat.
“The real question no one has asked is why is Northern Ireland bring invaded by hords of orientals in the first place, hmmmmm?
Could it be something to do with the complete lack of immigration controls under Mr. Broon?…… ”
Next thing you know the Linfield manager will be bringing THEM in to play for the bloo’s.
..And him an orangeman! Tut,Tut..
http://www.discovernorthernireland.com/product.aspx?ProductID=13397
If it’s an Orange Order march, it’s their call.
I suspect quite a few of the Chinese are Christian anyway. From an Orange Order point of view i would have though it made more sense to be inclusive to recent immigrants rather than exclusive.
logic and the oo are seldom partners
A positive gesture of inclusion by a local community, and a firebrand Orangeman preacher turns it into a bad news story. Welcome to the world of the Orange Order.
DEWI
To be honest why did the Chinese community want to march with these idiots?
Probably for a bit of crack and as a gesture of goodwill and friendship.
PRIONSA
The British state has temporary control of a piece of land that doesn’t belong to them. Who owns the particular plots of land is out with the remit of my opinion in the first instance.
That doesn’t make sense. NI is part of the UK, and therefore “belongs” to the UK as much as any other part of the UK. Whether that is “temporary” or not depends on the wishes of the people living there and doesn’t alter the sovereignty. As for land ownership, a lot of land in NI is owned by the state.
Perhaps you missed the various invasions reader? Even if the people vote to stay part of the British state for a millennium, it was still misappropriated in the first place. Pretty simple stuff.
When was NI “misappropriated”? All land has been “misappropriated” at some time.
No I was dismissing the legalese that people like you and others are using to try and replace the bare facts. The six counties is a modern construct, not a natural or historical fact. You cannot have territorial ambitions over a piece of your own country, it is yours, despite present artificial conditions.
When is your cut-off point? Is it 1921? Are states or territories created after that date “modern”, “not natural” and “not historical fact”? What is the basis for selecting this cut-off point?
NI is not part of the ROI. And the ROI does have territorial ambitions over it.
‘abucs ‘
‘If it’s an Orange Order march, it’s their call.’
True.
‘I suspect quite a few of the Chinese are Christian anyway.’
And I suspect that after this ‘incident ‘ quite a few may change their ‘brand’ of christianity to one a bit more inclusive .
‘From an Orange Order point of view I would have though it made more sense to be inclusive to recent immigrants rather than exclusive.’
You might think that but it’s hard to teach an old mangy dog new tricks
Steve,
‘logic and the oo are seldom partners ‘
SELDOM ?
Any chance of giving at least one example over the past 40 or so years whereby the OO was in any kind of contact with ‘logic’ in an attempt to resolve their self created problems or even ‘communicate’ with their ‘neighbours’ in NI ?
I’m assuming that (so far) this story is merely about the objection of Dickinson – the Chinese have not actually been banned from the event?
Sorry to disturb this charming little nationalist hate-fest against all things Orange, but the situation is very simple. Dickinson is speaking for himself, not the Orange Institution. There is a very good letter in today’s NL from a Paul Ridgers which sums up what the vast majority of Orangemen think.
Probably for a bit of crack
Greenflag
You know if I said “never” I would have had to bear a rather pendantic and entirely boring post from you know who
“I’m assuming that (so far) this story is merely about the objection of Dickinson – the Chinese have not actually been banned from the event?”
I doubt the chinese community would be welcome at many orange order/unionist events
http://www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/local-national/article3116196.ece
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/3715680.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/3504262.stm
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/northern_ireland/3378927.stm
This is in response to USA.
So is it acceptable for your neighbors to vote for Sinn Fein/IRA…The same men and women who killed fellow Roman Catholics and Protestants…Double standards springs to mind.
“political dustbin with Allister and his TUV Party”
concerned Loyalist
You may accept terrorists in government, I on the other hand do not. You and your like disgust me!
Morris
To repeat an often used and probably over used phrase
Terrorists have always been in government in nIreland