McDonnell: Sinn Fein will sign up to Robinson’s deal…
With Gerry Adams going to see Gordon Brown today, Alasdair McDonnell believes Sinn Féin is “simply talking up a crisis to cover up its negotiating mistakes at St Andrews, and its subsequent political failures”:
They built their trap themselves and they walked into it. Sinn Féin will cut a deal very soon, but let there be absolutely no doubt, it will be Peter Robinson’s deal. It will keep Sinn Féin in power, perhaps with some personnel changes, but it will not be a good deal for nationalists.
I have to agree with Alasdair McDonnell on this one, Sinn Fein have made massive mistakes in signing up to the St Andrews aggreement. The DUP are in complete control in the assembly and have blocked anything Sinn Fein apparently secured at At Andrews.
(1) No policing and Justice transfered
(2) No Irish Language act
(3) No Maze stadium
(4) A U Turn on Education
Sinn Fein have been made complete fools of, they were wined and dined by the British and sadly for Irish republicans history has repeated it self once again.
No one wants the institutions brought down with Bush on his way, robinson is in a strong position, SF are setting themselves up for a fall.
Shoudl Alasdair McDonnell lead the SDLP?
The DUP would be in a very strong position in the unlikely event of an election. They only have to recite the litany of Sinn Féin’s frustated intitiatives, neatly summarised by ‘Truth’ above, to silence the TUV and the UUP.
If the DUP think SF are serious about not nominating, thay can frustrate then easily – all it takes is for Paisley not to resign.
Spot on truth. I am NO great SDLP fan but they flagged this up AFTER St. Andrew’s. Sinn Fein were out-negotiated, out-thought, out-dealt and TOTALLY out-played in Scotland. The DUP are master tacticians and have played the Shinners like a fiddle. Many nationalists believe that the DUP are in FULL control of Stormont with the Shinner monkey dancing to the Unionist organ grinder; it has been VERY embarrassing to watch sometimes. Did ANYONE EVER believe that the DUP had changed? They were ALWAYS a divisive, sectarian party that wants to keep full control of their wee fiefdom up at Parliament Buildings AND Sinn Fein have been their willing submissive partner. We witnessed the antics of the DUP on Belfast City Council last night when the tried desperatly to keep a Nationalist Lord Mayor out and then spit fire when Tom Hartley’s was elected. That is the TRUE DUP. Policing & Justice = OUT; Maze Stadium = OUT; Irish Language Act = OUT; Parades Commission = OUT; Changes to Education = OUT. THANK YOU SINN FEIN. THIS IS WHAT YOU HAVE DELIVERED.
Wab – is this true? Couldn’t Marty just resign and instead and bring about the same situation?
lets be clear policing and justice will be transfered and Brown could move this on by threatening to squeeze the policing budget.
the dup will deliver a language act which creates equality between Ulster scots and Irish
SF ministers who would have to cough for the infrastructure around the Maze won’t weep for the loss of the stadium
education is a mess and will remain so while ruane is there but there is hardly a u-turn
Wab,
Then the long-term stability of the institutions rests on Paisley staying in good health. How sustainable is that?
I would agree with you truth and following on from that I would say that true to form the British Government have got Sinn fein and the republican movement exactly where they want it. Despite the figures at the last election Sinn Fein have heamoraged support since. 200 people at the public meeting with Gerry Adams for Fermanagh, Cavan, Leitrim and Monaghan compared to 1600 in the same venue last year. 2 buses were laid on in Armagh to bring supporters to their public meeting only 10 people availed of them. The British government have been as crafty as they always were, Sinn Fein Support is dropping away, republicans are splintering and the Provos are impotent. By the time the British have released a few more informers names, exposed other unsavoury practices by Sinn Fein which they are turning a blind eye to at the moment they will have put the final nail in their coffin. Sinn Fein’s biggest problem was they never got to know their enemy.
Dessertspoon:
“Couldn’t Marty just resign and instead and bring about the same situation?”
There’s something more dramatic about the sin of commission than the sin of omission. Marty could have resigned at any point in the past or future, but I suspect would have come across as more at fault for doing so.
It’s a strange coincidence that the Paisley/Robinson switchover, which provided the mechanism to bring things to a head, comes in the same week as SF’s P & J deadline expired. Which makes me wonder if there’s some background choreography going on (wasn’t Paisley originally due to retire the same week as Ahern??)
What’s to stop Sinn Féin from nominating someone else as DFM? Caitriona Ruane, for example. How would unionists take to voting for that double act?
SF are just “swinging the lead”.
Don’t teach your kids this technique, they’ll have ya by the bollocks for more pocket-money.
Peter Robinson’s body language and countenance on TV last night was that of a man whose Christmases had all come at once. He’ll throw a few crumbs to the SF beggars as and when he feels like giving them some scraps.
That is SF, the lap dog begging for its master to give it some sustenance.
Our day will come….ROFLMAO!
Fair point Ian…I just think the whole thing is rather sad. All of this stop start nonsense is not doing us any good.
Driftwood – I read someone elses comments that said they though Robinson looked a bit nervous and unsure…funny how two people can look at the same thing but see something completely different.
driftwood,
‘Peter Robinson’s body language and countenance on TV last night was that of a man whose Christmases had all come at once. He’ll throw a few crumbs to the SF beggars as and when he feels like giving them some scraps. ‘
So you believe Mr Robinson is an idiot and wants the Assembly to fail ? SF will allow Robinson to settle in and Paisley to retire but they won’t put up with the ‘croppy lie down’ treatment . If the UUP can walk out so too can SF . But if they do they’ll choose the time and issue . And what then for DUP political carriers ?
‘Sinn Fein’s biggest problem was they never got to know their enemy.’
So this explains why SF is the second biggest party in the Assembly and may be the largest after the next election ? And also now hold the Lord Mayorship of Belfast ?
With political enemies delivering like this SF doesn’t need friends .
Greenflag
No, Robinson is far from being an idiot. He knows SF are bluffing, and won’t go ahead with this, which will make them look even weaker.
I don’t think he’s even bothered. Westminster is probably past caring, but some small morsel of comfort will be needed to SF, so they can claim some sort of ‘achievement’ to plaster over the mess.
Malachi O’Doherty had a good piece on Talkback today. He pointed out that Gordon Brown needs the backing of the DUP in the Commons. If SF had taken up their seats they might be in a stronger bargaining position. But they didn’t.
I agree with most of had has been said by the unionist commentators above and generally agree that the DUP are in a strong position.
HOWEVER
The LAST thing brown needs is the assembly to come crashing down. He may get desparate and try to appease SF. then again, he needs DUP votes …
Could be an interesting week…
What all this has highlighted is went a cracking job the DUP did negotiating – if an election was called, I think they could spin all this very much in their favour.
Not for the first time O’Doherty is out of touch. Brown doesn’t need the DUP votes as he now has enough of his own MPs on board and if he did, do you really think the DUP would vote against increased detention of terrorist suspects? O’Doherty can’t be trusted to offer reliable any analysis of SF as he constantly lets his antipathy to cloud his judgment.
Running to the British Prime Minister because you fouled up on delivery in Government is an off strategy for an Irish Republican party. They have simply been trumphed politically on all the major issues, SF have had an awful run in Government over the last year.
I would love to hear the conversation where Adams and Co are pleading with Gordon Brown to deliver on issues which are totally within the remit of the Assembly (stadium / shrine & ILA).
brendan
apparently Gerry and Marty have left Downing street without commenting, Peter is to meet Gordon later, I wonder who will be alpha male in that chat?
The only thing this proves is the DUP can not so much as change their leader without SF/IRA agreement.
‘Brown doesn’t need the DUP votes as he now has enough of his own MPs on board and if he did,’
Labour do sound very confident about their own rebels toeing the line – but is this because they have bought off the DUP?
‘do you really think the DUP would vote against increased detention of terrorist suspects?’
For £200m of course they would
Crises are only to be expected if people insist on hysterical language like “croppy lie down” everytime things don’t go their way.
Perhaps if republicans finally grew up and stopped acting liked moody teenagers we would see real political progress.
I genuinely belive republicans and nationalists still don’t quite grasp how democracy works, believing they have some inalienable right to everything they demand.
TAFKABO
I’m afraid to tell you that your comments simply show that you’re an unreconstructed bigot who obviously wouldn’t have a fenian about the place.
You’re a unionist dinosaur who cannot accept change and you should go out and demand an Irish Language Act as pennance for your crime.
After a full year of the Assembly in operation it would be a good time to let the voters express their opinion in an election.
New Yorker,
Why not have the perfect democracy (in your eyes) and have daily elections then. Everyone will get their say every single day and no-one could ever complain…..
>>(1) No policing and Justice transfered
(2) No Irish Language act
(3) No Maze stadium
(4) A U Turn on Education
Sinn Fein have been made complete fools of, they were wined and dined by the British and sadly for Irish republicans history has repeated it self once again<<
Ok you’ve listed how they’ve managed to spoil the SF plans but what have the DUP delivered for their own electorate?
Not everything they demand, but things they were promised, and promised as part of a package that set up the current arrangements. IIRC, Danny Morrison’s long term view of the “peace process” was that unionists would eventually return to type, and prove they are incapable of running a political system with anything that approaches fairness. What SF have set up is the last chance to test the premise that unionists are not ‘institutionally bigoted’. It is clear that there is a sectarian basis for many of the logjams at Stormont. And that sectarianism is coming from the DUP. In the long game, it is back to the ‘good ol days’ for unionists, but without the willingness of the ‘mother land’ to support such a basket case run on that premise for any appreciable length of time. Maybe, all along, it was the goal of SF all to expose this?? Not long before plan B comes back to be talked about. Joint sovereignty at the very least, and maybe even worse for unionists?. And for what? Things that had been agreed previously and things that would have changed the way people perceive unionism, such as, if they had given support for the introduction of a completely harmless, but culturally important ILA? I appreciate this point is not reached yet, but the cracks and potential are clear to me. And there are aspects which could be very beneficial to SF if those cracks prove Danny Morrison’s theory.
interested
A year of operation is a sufficient period of time to form an opinion on how well the Assembly has delivered. If it is not working well, perhaps you need new people to run it.
TAFKABO,
I genuinely belive republicans and nationalists still don’t quite grasp how democracy works, believing they have some inalienable right to everything they demand.
You’re erecting straw men here. Nobody expects “everything they demand“. Nationalists would probably be quite happy with some of the things they demand – they do represent, lets not forget, 42.6% of the electorate. If the response of unionism is that 50%+1 gives them 100% of the power and control, then they cannot object to that being visited upon them when the time comes.
Powersharing implies that both sides get some pleasure and some pain. Unionists seem to think that they do not have to share, but the whole of the GFA ‘settlement’ is based upon sharing, so throw that out and who knows where you’ll end up.
Mayoman,
Your theory was/is dependent on unionism tearing down the institutions because they couldn’t stand those nasty kafflicks.
However here we have SF threatening to pull down the Assembly because they can’t get their own way. This isn’t unionism refusing to share power, its SF refusing to work with unionism because they aren’t getting everything their own way.
As for the “promises” from the Government, well welcome to planet unionism circa 1998/99. Lots of ‘promises’ were made to Trimble at that time by HMG but they were never delivered on because they weren’t tied down properly. The DUP learnt that lesson back then but SF continue to belive that they’re the NI political equivalent of Jose Mourinho – they’re the “special ones” who will have their every whim pandered to.
Lets look at what the Government might say in return to Adams whinges.
Why wont P&J;be devolved:
Well why didn’t you tie that down in negotiations. You’ve made your bed, now lie in it. Anyhow, do you think we’re going to allow you to f*ck up everything over that.
They wouldn’t give us an Irish Language Act.
Well, you negotiated a system of Government which allowed your political opponents to do that. Also, do you honestly think we’re going to meddle in devolved matters when the Scots are already twitchy. Again, you made your bed now go lie in it.
For all the mantra of “change” from republicanism it would appear that they’re actually very bad at adapting to it.
interested
This isn’t unionism refusing to share power, its SF refusing to work with unionism because they aren’t getting everything their own way.
Another example of the strawman argument so popular amongst unionists!
Sinn Féin (and the SDLP) did not expect to get “everything their own way“. But they expected to get their share of the power and the decision-making. SF have been happily working with unionism in a variety of ways that are not their preferred solution (police, the border, symbols, etc), but when they seek a relatively innocuous, but culturally mportant, thing like official recognition of the Irish language, the DUP bigots jump up.
If the DUP want to “work with” nationalists on the position of the Irish language, then where is Poots proposal?
TAFKABO,
“I genuinely belive republicans and nationalists still don’t quite grasp how democracy works, believing they have some inalienable right to everything they demand.”
A masterful ironic comment given Unionists historical view and practice of democracy…..
Interested: nothing you say changes the fact that it just looks like unionists will say ‘no’ to everything because they can. NOT because there is a decent reason to do so. The mechanics of how they do that are less important. I think this site sometimes gets bogged down in minutiae of how the politics works, and ignores the bigger picture of perception. At the moment, SF can make a very strong case that it is walking away simply because unionists are acting to type. Its a very easy sell given the history of that ‘state’. Have unionists considered the demise of Stormont on this premise and what could come after?
Horseman,
SF and the SDLP (but most particularly SF) should have expected to get the share of power and decision making that the system of government which they negotiated and supported.
If they didn’t see it coming well slap it up them.
SF have been working with unionism – police, border, symbols. (paraphrase)”
Yeah, we’ve seen how happy SF are to work with unionism in terms of symbols when it comes to District Councils.
The DUP has clearly been happy to work on the Irish language. It still gets a vast amount of funding – but now at least on a par with Ulster Scots language and culture. Promotion and protection of the Irish Language does not equal an Irish Language Act. There are many many different ways in which it can be done. However, SF claims that the only way it can be done is to have an Act so therefore they spit the dummy out when they don’t get what they want.
Its childish.
interested,
It seems that you belong to the ‘might is right’ school of thought. The problem with imposing such a philosophy on a system designed to be consensual is that it forces the other paties to adopt the same approach. In this particular case, given that the ‘consensual’ aspects of the GFA and the StAA are being laughed at by the DUP, you are forcing SF into a position of having to exert their might. At present, that might seems to be limited to the nuclear option. I don’t think that it is SF’s preferred outcome, but you are (happily, it seems) pushing them towards it.
If Sinn Fein are so sure that they were guaranteed certain things at St Andrews, why didn’t they just get Blair to sign some handwritten pledges?
Welcome to our world mo chara.
I think the Shinners are just taking the piss out of Robbo. Like there he is, taking over from the big lad after how many years and about to become First Minister and then on the eve of his coronation the pesky Shinners throw a spanner in the works. Hehe… Robbo must be seething…
Expect Marty to throw the arm over Peter’s shoulder tomorrow night and wisper “ach Pete we were only messing kiddo… But this is what could happen if you say ‘no’ all the time…”.
It basically doesn’t matter what or what not was promised. The bottom line is there will be joint sovereignty if the GFA fails (over the longer term), and SF may be the clever ones in starting to manouvre into the position that says it failed because unionists were unable to change. If that happens, who are the ones who have been clever? Joint sovereignty with one govt constantly wanting out (guess which!)? Just a thought.
I bet you Bobby Sands is happy with the outcome. Gerry Adams certainly is.
Joint sovereignty with one govt constantly wanting out (guess which!)? Just a thought.
Posted by Mayoman on Jun 03, 2008 @ 05:19 PM
yes the republic. They dont want you Republicans any more than Brown does
Didn’t say he was or wasn’t. Just hinting that there may be a strategy for SF in the GFA failing because unionists yet again show they have a total disregard for political agreements. Its a basic republican tenet that the DUP seems set on proving.
RoI opinion polls at 70% in favour of unification? Cloud cuckoo land observer!
Didn’t say he was or wasn’t. Just hinting that there may be a strategy for SF in the GFA failing because unionists yet again show they have a total disregard for political agreements. Its a basic republican tenet that the DUP seems set on proving.
Posted by Mayoman on Jun 03, 2008 @ 05:35 PM
Yep, the DUP have proved thety will not be moved by SF and their IDLE threats, Marty will be nominated on thursday with no ILA, no P+J, No education reform. Anyone want to take a bet on it?
“Yep, the DUP have proved thety will not be moved by SF and their IDLE threats, Marty will be nominated on thursday with no ILA, no P+J, No education reform. Anyone want to take a bet on it?”
Yes, I’ll take some of that? What odds are you offering?
Ill wager a £100 that the Shinners go back on Thursday without any up front deals on the abvoe
Yeah, with Thurs starting to look dodgy and P&J;likely to be negotiated (if the DUP are clever), that looks like a good bet to me! Not definite, but worth a punt (Euro!)!